Beta Ray Bill and Silver Surfer vs Orion and Captain Atom

DC team handily.

Bill is kinda feeling like a weak link

@kevd4wg: He is, he gets changed to feathers.

Bill stalls Orion long enough for surfer to beat CA and assist brb with Orion.

CA overpowers Surfer, Orion takes on Bill.

How?

none are a match for the power COSMIC

@static_shock: By transmutating Surfers molecules.

Team 2. Nice fight.

@rampagethefirst: Not sure how, considering Surfer’s transmutation abilities are greater than Atom’s.

@static_shock: You probably know more about him than I do, so I'll give you the benefit of the doubt but I don't see Surfer beating both of them, he could potentially pull a majority against Nathaniel but Orion makes quick work of Bill and 2v1's Surfer quite handily.

team two, too much firepower

I dont see how Bill is a weak link. He can go toe to toe with Orion and might even win a few.

@static_shock: I actually take it back, he CERTAINLY does manhandle Surfer here, there's no question about it, not after he performs a feat on this level.

Granted, he didn't kill Manhattan but he damn well reduced him to...this.

That is REALLY impressive and enough to one-shot Surfer considering the fact that Manhattan was shrugging off attacks from MULTIPLE powerhouses simultaneously, they couldn't even scratch him. Nathaniel instantly and singlehandedly reduces him to a skeleton.

So yeah, CA can very well solo this.

Captain Atom is a teambuster confirm

@rampagethefirst: By the way though considering this is rebirth era has atom showed anything close to doing that ?

If not shouldn't this feat fell into high-end /outlier category ?

@supermanthor: Rebirth Atom doesn't have many feats to begin with anyways so I don't see how this can be considered an outlier.

@rampagethefirst: i see

Team 2

Captain Atom can solo.

@rampagethefirst: CA wasn't the only one to affect Manhattan though. Guy Gardner broke his neck with a punch and Firestorm (IIRC) managed to burn him. The good doctor was no selling a lot of things but not everything. Some attacks affected him differently than others. Of course, he was in no real danger the whole time and he was just testing/toying with them.

That's not enough to suggest he can solo this. Surfer can reconstitute himself, so I don't think he blowing him up would do much good.

@brucerogers:

No, not really. Guy Gardner never broke his neck, Dr.Manhattan faked being KO'd just to surprise them and yes, Firestorm did manage to burn him but that just shows that Manhattan isn't exactly resistant to high temperatures of fire attacks, I don't see how that negates the value of CA's feat. When did I say he was no-selling attacks from everything? please do quote it.

Yes, that is enough to solo this, CA didn't even exert himself when he blasted Jon, and he clearly reduced Jon into nothingness since nobody was able to see him until he started forming his body tissues and this is really impressive since he was shrugging off energy attacks from multiple powerhouses. Surfer can reconstitute himself all he wants, it still counts as incap.

@rampagethefirst: I didn't claim you said he no sold everything. That was something I added there myself. But my point is that since Manhattan was clearly screwing with them, what makes you think CA would be manage that if he wasn't?

Sure, incap still counts as a victory. I was just saying that Surfer has counters against such attacks.

@brucerogers: Well, simply based on the fact that was he no-selling energy attacks from multiple powerhouses, even if he was toying with them, he was still no-selling them.

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And Manhattan clearly looked surprised when CA blasted him, it's like he wasn't expecting there to be someone as powerful as him.

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Him toying with them doesn't really negate the value of CA's feat since he was clearly shrugging off attacks from multiple powerhouses without even getting so much as a scratch (except for Ronnie's attack).

Team one.

@rampagethefirst: O_O

That’s awesome.

What book is that showing in? I’m curious.

@static_shock: Issue 9 of Doomsday Clock.

@rampagethefirst: Okay. Does Atom have any significance in that series? I'm asking because I haven't read anything new with Atom in it since his Rebirth limited series.

But like Bruce said, Surfer can reconstitute himself, and he's taken more powerful attacks than that before. I'd put my money on Surfer being more powerful than Manhattan due to decades of more impressive showings...

@static_shock: Not really. He is seen in the first few panels when all the heroes of earth are going to confront him but other than that, he doesn't have much significance in the series, just him coming out of nowhere and blasting Jon into nothingness.

He may reconstitute himself but it still counts as incap. Surfer has never taken energy blasts on par with this, he was shrugging off attacks from three lanterns, who prior to their fight, were capable of doing this;

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And if that isn't impressive, he was simultaneously shrugging off attacks from other powerhouses like Supergirl, Shazam, Firestorm, and pretty much every other superhero on the scene.

And to put it into perspective, this is how many superheroes there were on the scene.

So, you reckon that Surfer can take on the likes of Swamp Thing along with Zatanna, Constantine, Etrigan and other magicians?

The same Swamp Thing that was capable of doing this prior to his fight with Manhattan;

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I don't see Surfer taking on CA and winning, they have almost the same abilities but now we know for sure that CA can take him down too, quite easily.

Well, actually, Surfer has taken blasts way more powerful than that. Here, he took a blast from Korvac that was powerful enough to reduce a world to cinder.

What the GLs did there was create an atmosphere so Ronnie could create breathable air for everyone else. I get that the GLs are powerful, but that showing means very little here.

Anyway, there are a few showings of Surfer flying through supernovas and stuff. To be fair, Captain Atom, at normal levels, has never replicated that amount of power, as far as I know. On the flipside, Surfer has displayed enough power to destroy a planet with very little effort. Atom has never done this either.

Trust me when I say this will not be easy for Atom. Also, the powers aren't completely the same. Surfer's powers work on a much greater scale.

@static_shock: The Lanterns also replicated a planetary feat prior to their fight with Jon, and if that wasn't all, Jon shrugged it off like it was nothing while taking hits from multiple powerhouses, that is far above the paygrade of Surfer, even if we highball him. Going as far as saying Surfer hasn't taken anything on that level was a bit of lowballing on my part tbh and I take it back but CA is definitely taking Surfer down with a couple of those blasts.

I think you should look over your scans again. Captain Atom didn't reduce Manhattan down like that on his own. It was a combination of everyone's energy attacks plus his. Everyone was still attacking him and no one let up before Atom added his power to the fray. Or, at least that's what it looks like to me. If that's the case, then the showing isn't all that impressive because he's not doing it on his own. But, even if I'm wrong, and Atom did do that by himself, it still pales in comparison to what Surfer can withstand and also, dish out.

That said, those blasts aren't going to do much to Surfer. If he takes a blast that can reduce a planet to cinder, and Atom hasn't replicated that, then he's not going to put him down that easily.

Also, what of Atom's own durability? He's been incapacitated with energy attacks less powerful than what Surfer uses to bust a planet. Surfer isn't fighting Manhattan here.

@static_shock:

Can't Atom drag himself and Norrin into astral plane like he did against Nekron or just absorb all of his energies and pour them to vaporize SS?

@aqualion0: Surfer has put out enough energy to create a black hole in annihilation 2 out of sheer energy projection (called a kugelblitz) which requires star level power (static shock posted the scan above). I'm not sure of CA's feats in general but could he absorb all of that power?

On that note, good job to static for saving me time lol.

@aqualion0: but at the same time norrin as shown cotrol over the astral plane destroying powerful creatures with a simple touch.

@maalik:

Surfer has put out enough energy to create a black hole in annihilation 2 out of sheer energy projection (called a kugelblitz) which requires star level power (static shock posted the scan above). I'm not sure of CA's feats in general but could he absorb all of that power?

Post-Crisis Captain Atom when not rushed has shown to be able to absorb 1/3 of Parallax's plasma universe , completely drain Nekron on astral plane , absorb moon-busting energies , stop zero hour entropy , overpower Magog with his lance (specifically designed to avoid CA's quantum abilities) and maintain kryptonite radiation in his body which was powerful enough to kill any S-tier hero. Pretty sure his energy absorption exceeds star level and in addition of that we've seen Cap using his powers offensively. New 52 incarnation almost vaporized Mongul and casually destroyed planet.

but at the same time norrin as shown cotrol over the astral plane destroying powerful creatures with a simple touch.

Well , Norrin's best AP feat is destroying featless fodder characters while Nate could trash Nekron.

Bill either takes Orion or gives him the fight of his life. Norrin beats CA easily tbh

SS is MVP.

If SS was a 5.5/10, Bill would be a 4.5/10, and both Orion and CA would be a 5-/10.

So it could go either way.

Either Surfer edges it for Team Marvel, while Bill holds of one, or either of the Dc duo hold off Norrin long enough for Bill to go down.

@aqualion0: No. Atom didn’t drag Nekron anywhere. Atom was stuck in Purgatory (Nekron was already there) because Black Racer put him there. Nekron wanted to use the Quantum Field to draw the living world into Purgatory, but Atom absorbed Nekron’s energies to defeat him. Plus, the astral plane is the source of Surfer’s Power Cosmic, and Surfer said he’s more powerful there, IIRC. Wouldn’t do Atom much good.

Also, I don’t see Atom absorbing the Surfer like that. Surfer wouldn’t even allow Atom to do that successfully, and he could even force him to quantum jump as result.

@aqualion0: And also, Nekron, at that time, didn’t have very many feats. He was clearly powered up in Blackest Night. Atom defeated a weaker version of the character, to be honest.

Beating Nekron doesn’t mean he’ll beat Surfer though.

1) Atom absorbing Parallax’s plasma universe (and the size of it) is hard to quantify because he didn’t do it by himself. I also question the size of that universe; it’s not like the feat was in normal space and the plasma universe may not have been as vast as normal space either. Regardless, absorbing that amount of energy while in battle is going to be difficult.

2) Absorbing Nekron is somewhat impressive, but how can we quantify the amount of energy absorbed and in what way does it compare to Surfer’s energy output?

3) When did Atom absorb Moon-busting energies? He has failed to absorb much less in regular showings.

4) Stopping entropy is cool, but he needed help from the Ray. It’s not impressive if he didn’t do it alone.

5) The standoff he had with Magog was cool too. The energy Max Lord put in his lance was created to mess with Atom’s energy absorption, as it was an unstable energy form. But in terms of energy output, where does it stand? At best, it vaporized a portion of Chicago when the lance exploded (Atom couldn’t absorb it all). Surfer’s energy output is much greater than that.

6) You must be referring to the time Atom became Kryptonite Man. That instance was retconned in Captain Atom Armageddon. When the meteor exploded, the Void pulled Atom into the Wildstorm universe and aforementioned instance of him being Kryptonite Man was written to be a quantum glitch in space-time. So it didn’t happen. Atom’s only experience with Kryptonite was when he used it channel his energy through a Kryptonite ring to knock out Superman.

7) Atom’s energy absorption, at normal levels, isn’t anywhere close to star level. It’s nuke-level at best, since he’s casually absorbed then on more than one occasion.

8) Atom never destroyed a planet at normal levels.

@static_shock: How come you took so long to reply to Rampage?

@skywalker95: Because life is more important than Comicvine.

@static_shock:

1.) Cap didn't do it alone but contributed 1/3 to absorb it , so even with basic logic feat flat out outmatches Surfer's energy projection. In case if you think it's not legit , CA as Monarch III (Who on paper is just Captain Atom with better durability and more willpower) absorbed his 51 different alternate counterparts. Before draining them breaching Monarch armor could only cause small explosions and after that it could bust entire universe with ease. Basically , Atom absorbed universal level energies from his counterparts and I don't think it's impossible thing for him to do.

2.) Nekron is skyfather level being while Surfer is just herald. Just because Surfer can also manipulate energies doesn't mean he can cancel out draining.

3.) Scans doesn't show it clearly but Moon was literally fragmented to the point where small building could dwarf it.

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4.) Why it's not impressive? If I recall entropy was universal.

5.) The moment explosion started Atom instantly pulled energies back and reduced damage. We still don't know how potent his lance's energy projection was but one thing is clear - Lance could disintegrate Magog himself who should be considered as Superman tier character and Nate absorbed all of its power despite being modified by Maxwell Lord.

6.) I thought Atom time-jumped and it was moment later when Void took control of his body?

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7.) Atom was coordinating at nuke levels during his first appearance. His solo series hinted it and handbook explicitly stated that , Nate manually limits his quantum powers in order to maintain his humanity and sanity.

8.) Post-Crisis? Nah. New 52 incarnation could've destroyed Mars and Chrono Mota (Future version of Atom) created planet-busting bomb.

Other way around Surfer has the better feats, Silver Surfer also has better feats than Dr Manhattan

Norrin still surpasses Captain Atom in basically all areas regarding stats

Captain Atom yet to show superiority to Silver Surfer (who has loads more feats all the way back to the 1960s, energy absorbition, transmutation, messing with the universe, feats that are comparable or better).

Surfer also beat Orion, in a non-canon crossover

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@static_shock: Yeah, Nekron didn't have many feats. Just giving Krona enough power to crush entire universe (not just a statement either as the whole universe was shown constricting in size) and he was shown above Death of Endless too in the same comic where Atom beat him.

That's probably a step below comicvine Silver Surfer though (Who destroys universes by accident).

Silver Surfer also used/absorbed the power of 'the universal Crunch' he also absored the Parallax all of it, in a non canon cross over

Kyle in the comic Parallax in the comic "Unholy Alliances"

@megacityone: If the crossover is not canon, its not really usable. Even if it was written by a writer who has worked on characters from both companies and who definitely knows what he is talking about. Except the part about Surfer nearly killing Orion that effortlessly.

Surfer and Cpt Atom stalemate or nearly stalemate.

I feel like Darkseid Jr is slightly above BRB here, though

Team DC wins in a solar system busting banger... Orion still needs to shave, though. lol