This supports my point that none of Matt Martin's Tweets are canon. You made the claim that when he says something explicitly on Twitter they're canonical statements, which he explicitly rejects here.
What he's saying is that his Tweets are not an official source, and in his Tweets he will make statements of fact and express personal opinions. But neither of these things have canonical weight because they're not from an official source.
He is asked if his word is valid or invalid. He says both, and doesn't want to be quoted on wikis. When pressed further about being valid, he says he makes an effort to distinguish between a factual statement and an opinion. Meaning that one is legitimate, one is not.
Yeah, Matt has an official say on what is canon but he outright says his Tweets are not an expression of that.
Sure they are. That's why he regularly gives people answers on questions about canon, ranging from factual statements to personal speculation.
Additionally, I think it's fairly clear from the tone of that Tweet that he's joking around with a fan - unless the point is that he's actually thinking about giving that Twitter random his own Star Wars movie.
He's obviously joking about the character, but not about his authority.
He is asked if his word is valid or invalid. He says both, and doesn't want to be quoted on wikis. When pressed further about being valid, he says he makes an effort to distinguish between a factual statement and an opinion. Meaning that one is legitimate, one is not.
Being a source of valid information isn't the same as being a dispensary of canonical statements. Think of it like this, when canonical statements are made new Star Wars content is created. When someone offers valid information that is merely descriptive of Star Wars lore.
Being a statement of fact doesn't actually imply being canonical though. Canonical statements isn't merely saying something descriptively that aligns with with Star Wars "reality", it's about actually adding to that reality.
Maybe this example would elucidate. In religious tradition there is the principle of revelation, whereby divine knowledge is passed down. The best example of this is probably the Qur'an, which many believe is the verbatim word of Allah (whereas few Christians believe The Bible is directly the word of God). Now, throughout history there was been this inflexible core of divine knowledge that is inarguable, and around that a history of scholarship that describes, rationalizes and interprets. Similarly, canon is like the immovable core that can only be changed by canonical statements (think how Jesus changed the Law) but there is a surrounding body of non-canonical descriptions. Because Matt Martin has outright said that his Twitter statements are not a canonical source, he has automatically excluded them from the enduring core - whereas this is not true if he were to write a SW novel.
I'll say again - Matt Martin said in January of this year that Twitter is not a canon source (whereas if you look at the Tweet you provided it is two months older, even if you take your interpretation).
The guy even say that you're not supposed to "well actually" people in online debates! Do you have the rest of this exchange - they're now unavailable.
Actually, now I can remember a really good analogy! Under Catholic tradition The Pope is actually a dispensary of canonical religious knowledge, but only when he if officially speaking in his capacity as Pope. That was the escape clause he used when he told a child his atheist father was in Heaven (a big no-no for the Pope to say) because he only said it as passing. The same person can make canonical or non-canonical (though still true) statements because in different contexts they have different levels of authority. And Matt Martin has said his Twitter is not canon!
Sure they are. That's why he regularly gives people answers on questions about canon, ranging from factual statements to personal speculation.
No, he literally said his Tweets are not canon. He gives his personal perspective and opinions on things of course, and confirms whether certain novels and scenes are canonical, but he doesn't actually add to SW canon when he Tweets.
He's obviously joking about the character, but not about his authority.
Yeah, but there's a difference between having authority and exercising it in a certain context (think back to my Pope example, his statements are only taken as canonical to the papal tradition when he is explicitly acting in that role). Matt Martin has authority as a consequence of his job and role but he doesn't express any authority over Twitter, by his own statements.
ben wins 10/10, ben is on part with ~ROTS anakin by this point by feats. he's mainly capped by the fact that sidious ragdolled him and rey simultaneously, while his positive feats are his feats in the comics scaled up to his improvement, defeating rey (who i have ~ROTS obi wan)
ahsoka stated that ROTS anakin would clown TCW, who i have above TPM maul. therefore ben wins
The way I see it, Kylo has just as much training, if not more, than Anakin did as of ROTS. He also has Skywalker blood and the potential for limitless power. So I don’t see how he wouldn’t be on par with rots Anakin. There’s nothing that suggests otherwise. His loss to Rey in TFA has been explained. He was unbalanced, injured, and Rey experience his training when their minds linked earlier so she wasn’t just an untrained girl. Based on these quotes, Kylo is a highly skilled lightsaber user, and one of the most powerful combatants in the history of the mythos.
“Much like his uncle and grandfather before him, Kylo Ren possesses formidable lightsaber skills.”
“Kylo is not only showing that he can use the Force in this shot, he’s also showing us that he has an impressive amount of control over his powers—perhaps a larger amount of control than those who came before him.”
“Kylo Ren has a lifetime of training and practice, is one of the most powerful combatants in the history of Star Wars, and is the leader of the Knights of Ren.”
“He has well earned the nickname Jedi Killer whispered in the first order ranks, as it was his deadly lightsaber skills that prevented the return of the Jedi order.”
I think it's a close fight, but I'd give it to Maul for a majority. I have TPM Maul above TCW Maul, and Sidious couldnt ragdoll TCW Maul while his guard was up, therefore Ben cant do the same to TPM Maul.
I think this is a case where Ben outclasses him by a lot in the force, and likely has better speed or strength, but Maul uses an unconventional style of dueling, is much more skilled with a lightsaber, and is much more tactical with his fighting.
I think Maul would take it 6-7/10, by bringing Ben somewhere where he's at a disadvantage (which would be difficult in the throne room but still possible, there are hazards), and using his unpredictable tactics to kill him off.
@dathvada: The only area Ben can compete in is the force and even then, based off him struggling against the KOR, he doesn't stand much of a chance.
And in sabers Maul tools.
How does him struggling against the KOR make any difference? Proof that Maul could beat 6 Inquisitors who are amped by the force nexus at Exogol, and who have detailed knowledge of his fighting style and tactics (this is specifically cited as the single reason he couldn't beat the KOR), without a saber, and without using any dark side abilities such as force choke or crush?
In sabers, Ben has been compared to Anakin and Luke in skill, and Sidious stated that all his apprentices (he specifically calls Kylo one of his apprentices in the same book) wield their sabers with "great skill". Sidious doesn't strike me as the type of guy with low standards for saber skill...
Maul can't compete with Ben Solo in the force at all. Even Kylo has better feats. Furthermore, Sidious stated that a nonconflicted Kylo would be a threat to him in power, and Ben is no longer conflicted (Sidious was amped when he ragdolled Ben in TROS, so no, that scene does not contradict Sidious's statement). Considering even Vader would barely be a threat to Sidious, if that, this puts Ben's power well out of Maul's league.
Maul has better skill accolades with a saber, however, Ben's accolades are highly impressive, and his augmentation and force powers are far beyond Maul. He is winning this.
How does him struggling against the KOR make any difference? Proof that an unarmed Maul could beat 6 Inquisitors who are amped by the force nexus
Source for nexus's amping people in canon? Matt Martin has denied nexus's amping people, when asked. Rebels Maul who is weaker than TPM Maul was toying with 3 Inquisitors, later casually one-shotting one.
The Star Wars Book is the source, and unlike Matt Martin's Twitter, it is canon. And Maul "toying" with 3 Inquisitors literally is completely meaningless for this discussion. Maul was armed with his saber in that scene.
at Exogol, and who have detailed knowledge of his fighting style and tactics (this is specifically cited as the single reason he couldn't beat the KOR), without a saber, and without using any dark side abilities such as force choke or crush?
Wouldn't Ben also know of the KOR's fighting style following the same logic for the KOR knowing Ben's fighting style?
No. The novel specifically cites it as an advantage for the KOR. Makes sense considering they had a numbers advantage.
Also lightsider's can still use force choke and force crush. Anakin did throughout TCW, when he was still in the lightside.
?? Anakin tapped into the dark side to do that. The whole point of Ben's arc at that point is that he was no longer a dark side user.
Maul can't compete with Ben Solo in the force at all. Even Kylo has better feats.
Maul has better scaling and accolades. Near enough one shotting Obi Wan in the Sith Hunter's while only at his TPM levels. The Sith Hunter's was worked on by the TCW creative team, making it a viable source for canon. A far weaker Obi Wan was capable of telekinetically manipulating a huge ship with Anakin's help. Though at this point, Obi Wan was well above Anakin.
Statue feat is easily better than those feats. Kylo scales massively over that, and he performed that feat with very little difficulty. He also has the feats of surviving the crash from orbit and his tie fighter crash, blowing up the dagobah cave with the force, complete levitation, destroying Luke's temple inadvertently with lightning and following it up with an intentional bolt against Ren, launching 7 force sensitives 20 feet into the air, freezing blaster bolts, blocking saber blows with the force, etc. Clearly a much better repertoire of feats compared to Maul.
Maul's TCW counterpart also being stated to be powerful enough for Sidious to be unable to rag doll without an opening, places TCW Maul at least well above Kylo.
Based on what? ROTS Sidious never ragdolled Kylo. What are you comparing this to?
Furthermore, Sidious stated that a nonconflicted Kylo would be a threat to him in power, and Ben is no longer conflicted (Sidious was amped when he ragdolled Ben in TROS, so no, that scene does not contradict Sidious's statement). Considering even Vader would barely be a threat to Sidious, if that, this puts Ben's power well out of Maul's league.
Being a threat to Sidious means little. S3 Ventress was also considered a threat to Sidious. Maul was also noted by many sources, including SoD to be a threat to Sidious.
Citation needed. Ventress was not a threat to Sidious by herself lol. She and Dooku combined where the threat. Her existence as an ally for Dooku was the issue. And this is ROTS Sidious, not ROTJ/Zombie Sidious. Obviously ROTJ Sidious>>>>. Gonna need the source on Sidious specifically referring to Maul alone as a threat to himself in power as well. Not a future potential threat either. A threat in the present tense, seeing as that was the context for Palpatine's statement.
Sidious specifically says that Luke Skywalker was the only person in existence with the POWER to threaten himself, and that Luke's death meant no one had the power to challenge him. He then specifically cites Kylo's conflict as the reason he would not also be in that category.
Also proof of Sidious being "amped," when he rag dolled Ben? He barely absorbed their power beforehand and considering he rag dolled Rey as well, this "amp," should be far outweighed by having to rag doll Rey as well.
Showed proof of the amp above. Directly from the Star Wars Book.
Ben due to superior force abilities. Maul might be a more skilled duelist, but Ben is far more powerful and should be able to at least hold his own in sabers. Great fight.
Do you have the source that states that the KOR are weaker than the Inquisitors?
It is said they're perfect ''stock'' for Inquisitors, if only they could be tamed:
Rise of Skywalker novel says they can only touch the force in a ''small'' way - meaning they have very limited force capabilities:
The Knights of Ren had never been his. They had belonged to the Emperor all along. A final betrayal. Snoke had been nothing more than a pawn. The Emperor had whispered poison to Ben his whole life. Now even the Knights, those whom he thought his faithful brothers, were raising their weapons for the kill. They surrounded him slowly, like predators stalking their prey. He could take two or three at a time, but these were his very own. He’d trained with them. They could even touch the Force in a small way. He didn’t stand a chance against all of them at once, not armed with just a blaster. Maybe it had been premature to throw his lightsaber into the sea. An image lit up his mind, another lightsaber, flashing blue. It was a message from Rey. — “She will draw her weapon,” the Emperor intoned. Rey made her face blank. She unhooked Luke’s lightsaber and ignited it. “She will come to me!” he said, and the crowd responded with a collective yell. Rey stepped closer still. Her grandfather smelled like rotting meat. — Ben blasted one attacker, thrusted away another with the Force, spun to face a third… …as something cracked the back of his skull, sending him to his knees. Another blow crushed his abdomen, robbing him of air, and he bent over gasping. The Knights, in their supreme arrogance, backed away, allowed Ben to gain his feet. He seemed defenseless to them. They must have never really respected him, or even his abilities, to give him ground now. Ben sucked in air as they circled for another attack
Guidebook not only re-affirms that they have limited force abilities, but that they're also completely untrained in the force (as of TROS):
Luke criticizes them for lacking training and use the dark side ''like a hammer'':
TROS Palpatine agrees with Luke's criticism of them ''using the dark side like a hammer'' (meaning they didn't grow much at all, as the guidebook already affirms):
@sonofdarkness: TCW S4 Maul scales below TPM Maul. Besides, TPM Maul is a true sith so the same logic that you use to put Kylo above Savage and Ventress would apply to TPM Maul
@sonofdarkness: I don’t think TPM Maul stomps Ventress or Ben. I was just saying that Ventress contending with TCW S4 Maul doesn’t necessarily mean she can also contend with TPM Maul
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