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#51 Posted by ANTHP2000 (28819 posts) - - Show Bio

@dark-sith123:

I wasn't referring to Lupin, I was referring to Flitwick who is an accomplished professor as well as a duelling champion.

Yes, Ginny is above average but not anything over the top, and fighting Flitwick is still tougher than dueling three teenagers, with one being incompetent and only one being "good" compared to other adult duelists.

I know Flitwick defeated Dolohov, but what I was saying is: Bellatrix survived for longer than Dolohov because she had an easier fight. Bellatrix being the last one standing doesn't necessarily mean she's better than Dolohov.

You do realise we're not talking feats, but writer's intent? And yo do realise that these 2 duels weren't the only duels they had in the Battle of Hogwarts?

I've said it twice already, wether or not Flitwick is better than 3 other witches combined is not the point here. Rowling chose to compare Bellatrix to her master for a reason, and that's because she's intented to be better.

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#52 Posted by ArkhamAsylum3 (3920 posts) - - Show Bio

@dark-sith123 said:

@decaf_wizard:

Dolohov dueled and nearly defeated the main trio in Deathly Hallows. Sure, he was subdued, but he managed to take Harry and Ron out of the fight.

LMAO. Rowle, who was also around Tonks level duelist was in that duel as well, and they both surprised each-other and were in cramped quarters. Thats nowhere near stalemating them in an actual duel

Nice highballing attempt.

Rowle was taken out in the first few seconds. He was taken out by Harry under the invisibility cloak without doing anything leaving it as a 1v3 for Dolohov.

Talk about ignoring context.

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#53 Posted by decaf_wizard (17077 posts) - - Show Bio

@decaf_wizard said:
@dark-sith123 said:

@decaf_wizard:

Dolohov dueled and nearly defeated the main trio in Deathly Hallows. Sure, he was subdued, but he managed to take Harry and Ron out of the fight.

LMAO. Rowle, who was also around Tonks level duelist was in that duel as well, and they both surprised each-other and were in cramped quarters. Thats nowhere near stalemating them in an actual duel

Nice highballing attempt.

Rowle was taken out in the first few seconds. He was taken out by Harry under the invisibility cloak without doing anything leaving it as a 1v3 for Dolohov.

Talk about ignoring context.

Im not ignoring context at all, the fight lasted for a few seconds, was in close quarters and one spell was only noted to have hit Harry because the wall behind him exploded. Rowle notably slung multiple spells at them before being stealth taken out.

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#54 Edited by ArkhamAsylum3 (3920 posts) - - Show Bio

@decaf_wizard said:
@arkhamasylum3 said:
@decaf_wizard said:
@dark-sith123 said:

@decaf_wizard:

Dolohov dueled and nearly defeated the main trio in Deathly Hallows. Sure, he was subdued, but he managed to take Harry and Ron out of the fight.

LMAO. Rowle, who was also around Tonks level duelist was in that duel as well, and they both surprised each-other and were in cramped quarters. Thats nowhere near stalemating them in an actual duel

Nice highballing attempt.

Rowle was taken out in the first few seconds. He was taken out by Harry under the invisibility cloak without doing anything leaving it as a 1v3 for Dolohov.

Talk about ignoring context.

Im not ignoring context at all, the fight lasted for a few seconds, was in close quarters and one spell was only noted to have hit Harry because the wall behind him exploded. Rowle notably slung multiple spells at them before being stealth taken out.

Rowle shot one spell. Also it doesn't matter because he didn't take out any of them. Meanwhile Dolohov fought all three.

"The great blond Death Eater was hit in the face by a jet of red light: He slumped sideways, unconscious. His companion, unable to see who had cast the spell, fired another at Ron: Shining black ropes flew from his wand-tip and bound Ron head to foot—the waitress screamed and ran for the door—Harry sent another Stunning Spell at the Death Eater with the twisted face who had tied up Ron, but the spell missed, rebounded on the window, and hit the waitress, who collapsed in front of the door. “Expulso!” bellowed the Death Eater, and the table behind which Harry was standing blew up: The force of the explosion slammed him into the wall and he felt his wand leave his hand as the Cloak slipped off him. “Petrificus Totalus!” screamed Hermione from out of sight, and the Death Eater fell forward like a statue to land with a crunching thud on the mess of broken china, table, and coffee. Hermione crawled out from underneath the bench, shaking bits of glass ashtray out of her hair and trembling all over."

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#55 Posted by deactivated-5bf470b432518 (5801 posts) - - Show Bio

@anthp2000

Lupin speedblitzed Harry and beat Malfoy.

Those are feats.

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#56 Edited by deactivated-5bf470b432518 (5801 posts) - - Show Bio

Bellatrix. She was clearly implied to be the best Death Eater.

Feats>Statements.

Dolohov has way better feats.

@riddlerfan77: When did Harry defeat Yaxley?

Do you have a quote?

Half Blood Prince Astronomy tower battle. I'll do my best to find a quote but no promises, I'm exceedingly lazy when it comes to feat gathering.

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#57 Posted by Goltop (60 posts) - - Show Bio

@arkhamasylum3: @riddlerfan77:

Bellatrix wins. Her main advantage is speed.

Both of you misinterpret the context of Dolohov's feat of beating Harry+Hermione+Neville. He cursed Hermione right after Harry took down Jugson, so her attention was somewhere else, then harry doesn't even fight back , but crawls to Hermione and tries to wake her up, thenNeville tries to interfere, and Dolohov kicks him when he tries to get up from beneath the table.

He didn't beat them fair n square. If all thee of them were on their feet and he was the only DE in the room, they may have taken him down together.

Bella was able to actually respond to three duelists at the same time (and in this case, Hermione was older, more skilled and experienced).

Also

@darthfallax said:

@riddlerfan77: When did Harry defeat Yaxley?

Do you have a quote?

Half Blood Prince Astronomy tower battle. I'll do my best to find a quote but no promises, I'm exceedingly lazy when it comes to feat gathering.

This is hardly an important feat - he cursed him in the back while he didn't even know Harry's there.

Second time, Harry stunned him in the ministry while under his cloak - Yaxley only saw his hand and couldn't defend in time.

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#58 Posted by deactivated-5bf470b432518 (5801 posts) - - Show Bio

@goltop said:

@arkhamasylum3: @riddlerfan77:

Bellatrix wins. Her main advantage is speed.

Laughing my ass off. His speed is comparable to hers.

Both of you misinterpret the context of Dolohov's feat of beating Harry+Hermione+Neville. He cursed Hermione right after Harry took down Jugson, so her attention was somewhere else, then harry doesn't even fight back , but crawls to Hermione and tries to wake her up, thenNeville tries to interfere, and Dolohov kicks him when he tries to get up from beneath the table.

Jugson wasn't relevant, you take him out and everything plays out the exact same all he did was walk into the room and get put down by Harry. Dolohov sends them flying with a spell, gets silenced and then subdues both Hermione and Neville before holding Harry at his mercy. Dolohov won fair and square.

He didn't beat them fair n square. If all thee of them were on their feet and he was the only DE in the room, they may have taken him down together.

Completely false considering Dolohov beat all three of them [Ignoring the fact that Dolohov nearly achieved victory against a vastly more impressive trio]. Your claims are beyond stupid.

Bella was able to actually respond to three duelists at the same time (and in this case, Hermione was older, more skilled and experienced).

This feat is more impressive but it's not more impressive than Dolohov's café feat in which he fought off a far more impressive trio, subduing two of it's members in the process. Also worth noting that Ginny and Luna are lackluster, damn near featless duellists and Hermione didn't have her wand so your point is moot.

@riddlerfan77 said:
@darthfallax said:

@riddlerfan77: When did Harry defeat Yaxley?

Do you have a quote?

Half Blood Prince Astronomy tower battle. I'll do my best to find a quote but no promises, I'm exceedingly lazy when it comes to feat gathering.

This is hardly an important feat - he cursed him in the back while he didn't even know Harry's there.

It wasn't in the back at all but whatever floats your boat. I feel like mentioning as well that Harry has better feats than Yaxely regardless.

Second time, Harry stunned him in the ministry while under his cloak - Yaxley only saw his hand and couldn't defend in time.

This isn't relevant at all as it's not the instance I was referring too.

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#59 Edited by HitTheAssasin (8531 posts) - - Show Bio

Bellatrix.

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#60 Posted by deactivated-5bf470b432518 (5801 posts) - - Show Bio
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#61 Edited by SocaJunkie (8903 posts) - - Show Bio

Bellatrix, slightly better feats overall and he hasn’t done anything she couldn’t replicate unless one wants to argue that surprising Ron and exploding a table are beyond her capabilities.

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#62 Posted by Kilius (1625 posts) - - Show Bio

Splits

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#63 Posted by Goltop (60 posts) - - Show Bio


Jugson wasn't relevant, you take him out and everything plays out the exact same all he did was walk into the room and get put down by Harry. Dolohov sends them flying with a spell, gets silenced and then subdues both Hermione and Neville before holding Harry at his mercy. Dolohov won fair and square.

Hardly. In the book ,they were hit by double Impedimenta, so if Jugson wasn't there, they wouldn't have been sent flying.

After being silenced, there would be no Jugson to draw their attention, so they can curse him right away. Even if you're right and he still managed to take down Hermione with purple flame, Neville might attack him since he would take less time to recover from the Impediment Jinx.

All this is hypothetical of course, but my point is that claiming he defeated them isn't correct.

This feat is more impressive but it's not more impressive than Dolohov's café feat in which he fought off a far more impressive trio, subduing two of it's members in the process.

That was an ambush, the only one of the trio who managed to draw his wand in time was Harry, and Ron wasn't even able to draw his wand bcs his jeans were too tight. Dolohov defeating Harry under the invisibility cloak is a good feat, of course, I'm not denying that. But again, this fight hasn't lasted longer than like 30 sec and Dolohov never actually duelled all three of them at once.

Also worth noting that Ginny and Luna are lackluster, damn near featless duellists and Hermione didn't have her wand so your point is moot.

Ginny fought enemies on simillar level as Ron did - etc in Half-Blood prince they fought together against DEs. Regarding Luna, you're right. But Hermione, despite using another wand, was able to do magic just fine, including nonverbal magic, so it prob wasn't that important. But in book 7, she was definitely more experienced and better duelist than in the Dpt of Mysteries.

It wasn't in the back at all but whatever floats your boat. I feel like mentioning as well that Harry has better feats than Yaxely regardless. This isn't relevant at all as it's not the instance I was referring too.

I know, I simply mentioned both instances so you'll see Harry never actually defeated Yaxley. And the reason Yaxley doesn't have many feats is that he's not a main character - but don't forget that in the Battle of Hogwarts, he was seen fighting Flitwick, so in terms of duelling skill, he's probably closer to Dolohov's level than Harry's.

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#64 Posted by deactivated-5bf470b432518 (5801 posts) - - Show Bio

@goltop said:
@riddlerfan77 said:

Jugson wasn't relevant, you take him out and everything plays out the exact same all he did was walk into the room and get put down by Harry. Dolohov sends them flying with a spell, gets silenced and then subdues both Hermione and Neville before holding Harry at his mercy. Dolohov won fair and square.

Hardly. In the book ,they were hit by double Impedimenta, so if Jugson wasn't there, they wouldn't have been sent flying.

That's pretty much what the jinks does so no I don't think they wouldn't have been sent flying.

After being silenced, there would be no Jugson to draw their attention, so they can curse him right away. Even if you're right and he still managed to take down Hermione with purple flame, Neville might attack him since he would take less time to recover from the Impediment Jinx.

Hermione's first instinct was to silence Dolohov who then immediately subdued her so no she wasn't distracted. If you can call what Jugson did distracting them I'm confused because all he did was get one shotted before Harry was held at Dolohov's mercy. Harry wouldn't have been able to curse him, the fact that he needed a distraction to do so proves this. Neville would have been sent flying anyway so his position is he same, Dolohov subdues him.

All this is hypothetical of course, but my point is that claiming he defeated them isn't correct.

Yes it is.

This feat is more impressive but it's not more impressive than Dolohov's café feat in which he fought off a far more impressive trio, subduing two of it's members in the process.

That was an ambush, the only one of the trio who managed to draw his wand in time was Harry, and Ron wasn't even able to draw his wand bcs his jeans were too tight.

False actually, Ron said drawing his wand was a difficulty not that he didn't do it. Dolohov subdues both Ron and an invisible Harry simultaneously before being put out due to a surprise attack.

Dolohov defeating Harry under the invisibility cloak is a good feat, of course, I'm not denying that. But again, this fight hasn't lasted longer than like 30 sec and Dolohov never actually duelled all three of them at once.

You're losing credibility since basically all HP duels with a few notable exceptions, last for thirty seconds or more. Dolohov fought all three simultaneously [He subdued both Ron and an invisible Harry at the same time whilst Hermione circled around and subdued him from behind] and lost but he performed admirably, far more impressive than any of Bellatrix's feats.

Also worth noting that Ginny and Luna are lackluster, damn near featless duellists and Hermione didn't have her wand so your point is moot.

Ginny fought enemies on simillar level as Ron did - etc in Half-Blood prince they fought together against DEs.

Ron's a mediocre, damn near featless duellist as well, his best feat is subduing a Death Eater one on one in HPB [One of Voldemort's inner circle]. Luna and Ginny have got nothing on Harry and Hermione. So essentially Dolohov fought two highly skilled duellists [One of who was invisible] and a mediocre duellist and subdued two of them, Bellatrix fought one highly skilled but hindered duellist and two mediocre one's and the fight ended in a stalemate. Which performance is better?

Regarding Luna, you're right. But Hermione, despite using another wand, was able to do magic just fine, including nonverbal magic, so it prob wasn't that important. But in book 7, she was definitely more experienced and better duelist than in the Dpt of Mysteries.

I've already admitted that that feat is worse, I'm comparing the café featand the final duel. Hermione was hindered majorly, performing magic doesn't mean she's close to where she was.

It wasn't in the back at all but whatever floats your boat. I feel like mentioning as well that Harry has better feats than Yaxely regardless. This isn't relevant at all as it's not the instance I was referring too.

I know, I simply mentioned both instances so you'll see Harry never actually defeated Yaxley.

Yes he did. It was under specific context but it's still impressive that he managed to speed-blitz an armed, highly alert Yaxely, which at least puts his reflexes above Yaxely which are primary in a duel meaning that most likely Harry is superior to Yaxely [Ignoring the fact that Harry has better feats to begin with]

And the reason Yaxley doesn't have many feats is that he's not a main character

Dolohov and Bellatrix were nigh impressive duellists with some of the best feats in the series but they weren't main characters and people like Ron who were got no combat feats.

- but don't forget that in the Battle of Hogwarts, he was seen fighting Flitwick, so in terms of duelling skill, he's probably closer to Dolohov's level than Harry's.

Fighting and winning are two different things. Harry "fought" Bellatrix one on one yet he was getting wrecked. People scale Yaxely off one sentence that places him as having fought someone [Not contended with or one against but fought] who beat Dolohov so that must mean they are equals or on the same tier right]. Nope this is the same Yaxely who got speed-blitzed by Harry and stomped by George and Lee [George is equal to Fred who's best feat is stalemating a fodder Death Eater and Lee is featless].

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#65 Posted by Goltop (60 posts) - - Show Bio

@riddlerfan77:

That's pretty much what the jinks does so no I don't think they wouldn't have been sent flying.

Two spells at once have greater effect than one - does that really need expaining?

If you can call what Jugson did distracting them I'm confused because all he did was get one shotted before Harry was held at Dolohov's mercy.

Jugson stepped in front of them and raised his wand, forcing them to deal with him first. After that, Dolohov curses Hermione while she's saying "Well done" or stg like that to Harry. Jugson's mere presence meant they couldn't concentrate on Dolohov alone.

False actually, Ron said drawing his wand was a difficulty not that he didn't do it. Dolohov subdues both Ron and an invisible Harry simultaneously before being put out due to a surprise attack.

He only managed to draw it after the fight, when they're about to clean the cafe up. Dolohov subdued him while he didn't have it in his hand, read it again if you don't believe me. And while Hermione was under the table, Dolohov knew about her presence, so it wasn't such a surprise.

So essentially Dolohov fought two highly skilled duellists [One of who was invisible] and a mediocre duellist and subdued two of them, Bellatrix fought one highly skilled but hindered duellist and two mediocre one's and the fight ended in a stalemate. Which performance is better?

Bella's performance is much better since she was deflecting/evading spells from three duelists at the same time, and also fighting back.

Dolohov ambushed them, subdued one who couldn't ready his wand in time, then took out Harry (in a brief 1on1 since Hermione wasn't interfering until she got ready), then immediately gets taken down by third.

Yes he did. It was under specific context but it's still impressive that he managed to speed-blitz an armed, highly alert Yaxely, which at least puts his reflexes above Yaxely which are primary in a duel meaning that most likely Harry is superior to Yaxely [Ignoring the fact that Harry has better feats to begin with].

What so impressive? Cheap-shotting someone who is leaving the room while he didn't know you're even there? Or stunning someone who witnessed a stunner come out of nowhere, and just managed to notice your arm floating in the air? None of this proves Harry's better reflexes.

Dolohov and Bellatrix were nigh impressive duellists with some of the best feats in the series but they weren't main characters and people like Ron who were got no combat feats.

Yaxley didn't happen to be in as many fights as these two, that's all.

Fighting and winning are two different things. Harry "fought" Bellatrix one on one yet he was getting wrecked.

The book states he and Flitwick were fighting, while Harry was mostly hiding behind the statues when he "fought" Bellatrix. Those are two different things.

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#66 Posted by deactivated-5bf470b432518 (5801 posts) - - Show Bio

@goltop said:

@riddlerfan77:

That's pretty much what the jinks does so no I don't think they wouldn't have been sent flying.

Two spells at once have greater effect than one - does that really need expaining?

No it doesn't, I'm well aware but you're acting like one spell which is still enough to send people flying, would have no effect at all.

If you can call what Jugson did distracting them I'm confused because all he did was get one shotted before Harry was held at Dolohov's mercy.

Jugson stepped in front of them and raised his wand, forcing them to deal with him first. After that, Dolohov curses Hermione while she's saying "Well done" or stg like that to Harry. Jugson's mere presence meant they couldn't concentrate on Dolohov alone.

Jugson got put down quickly, he was hardly a distraction. Hermione said well done yes but she wasn't distracted, she was staring right at Dolohov.

False actually, Ron said drawing his wand was a difficulty not that he didn't do it. Dolohov subdues both Ron and an invisible Harry simultaneously before being put out due to a surprise attack.

He only managed to draw it after the fight, when they're about to clean the cafe up. Dolohov subdued him while he didn't have it in his hand, read it again if you don't believe me. And while Hermione was under the table, Dolohov knew about her presence, so it wasn't such a surprise.

I don't believe you. Absolutely nowhere does it say Ron didn't have his wand, all it says is that it's a pain to draw it. The notion that simply because he was aware of her presence he should be able to react to her even though she was behind him is ridiculous.

So essentially Dolohov fought two highly skilled duellists [One of who was invisible] and a mediocre duellist and subdued two of them, Bellatrix fought one highly skilled but hindered duellist and two mediocre one's and the fight ended in a stalemate. Which performance is better?

Bella's performance is much better since she was deflecting/evading spells from three duelists at the same time, and also fighting back.

Dolohov basically did the exact same thing. He hit Ron with a spell and quickly reacted to Harry, dodging his spell and retaliating only to be subdued by a surprise attack.

Dolohov ambushed them, subdued one who couldn't ready his wand in time, then took out Harry (in a brief 1on1 since Hermione wasn't interfering until she got ready), then immediately gets taken down by third.

Dolohov and Rowle ambushed them, Rowle got wrecked and then Dolohov fought three armed [One invisible] opponents and got put down after subduing two of them simultaneously.

Yes he did. It was under specific context but it's still impressive that he managed to speed-blitz an armed, highly alert Yaxely, which at least puts his reflexes above Yaxely which are primary in a duel meaning that most likely Harry is superior to Yaxely [Ignoring the fact that Harry has better feats to begin with].

What so impressive? Cheap-shotting someone who is leaving the room while he didn't know you're even there?

If memory serves me correct Yaxely was standing at the door, wand out ready to react to something if need be when Harry came out of nowhere and subdued him. Subduing a top tier Death Eater before he can react is nigh impressive. Based off him speed-blitzing him Harry has better speed and reflexes.

Or stunning someone who witnessed a stunner come out of nowhere, and just managed to notice your arm floating in the air? None of this proves Harry's better reflexes.

Stop bringing this up. It doesn't prove jack shit and is not relevant to this discussion but you continue to bring it up like it is when I never mentioned it and it isn't relevant.

Dolohov and Bellatrix were nigh impressive duellists with some of the best feats in the series but they weren't main characters and people like Ron who were got no combat feats.

Yaxley didn't happen to be in as many fights as these two, that's all.

Yeah and he got stomped in the second by two average duellists. Forgive me for being blunt but Yaxely is not close to Bellatrix or Dolohov's level and a two second fight only mentioned in passing won't change that.

Fighting and winning are two different things. Harry "fought" Bellatrix one on one yet he was getting wrecked.

The book states he and Flitwick were fighting, while Harry was mostly hiding behind the statues when he "fought" Bellatrix. Those are two different things.

It doesn't say that they were fighting for a long time, it doesn't say that they were well matched, all it says is that they were fighting but the same can be said about Harry and Bellatrix. It's not relevant and the fact that Yaxely got stomped by George and Lee Jordan two people Harry or Hermione could solo removes any idea that he's on Dolohov and Bellatrix's level.

To compare Dolohov and Bellatrix's feats Fighting DH's Harry Ron and Hermione and subduing two of their members [One of whom who was invisible]>Stomping Kingsley>Stalemating Sirius [Both did it]>Stalemating DH's Ginny, Hermione and Luna>Beating OOTP Harry, Neville and Hermione>Beating Lupin>Stomping Moody>Beating Tonks

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#67 Posted by Goltop (60 posts) - - Show Bio

@riddlerfan77:

I don't believe you. Absolutely nowhere does it say Ron didn't have his wand, all it says is that it's a pain to draw it.

As I mentioned, if you don't believe me, simply re-read the chapter. When Harry and Ron talk about cleaning the cafe up, there's this line: "Ron struggled for a moment before managing to extract his wand from his pocket." So Ron drew his wand after the duel.

If memory serves me correct Yaxely was standing at the door, wand out ready to react to something if need be when Harry came out of nowhere and subdued him.

Harry hit him when he was disappearing through the door. He was leaving the tower, not knowing there was someone besides his companions. The book mentioned he was hit in the back, Merlin's beard.

Yaxely got stomped by George and Lee Jordan

Being subdued by two wizards who finished education while you're surrounded by lots of other enemies isn't such a bad feat. Some featless DA members were able to hold off DEs 1on1 (Dean fought Dolohov and Parvati fought Travers). George and Lee could have a chance to take Dolohov down, too, considering my previous arguments about his fights against the student trios.

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#68 Posted by deactivated-5bf470b432518 (5801 posts) - - Show Bio

@goltop said:

@riddlerfan77:

I don't believe you. Absolutely nowhere does it say Ron didn't have his wand, all it says is that it's a pain to draw it.

As I mentioned, if you don't believe me, simply re-read the chapter. When Harry and Ron talk about cleaning the cafe up, there's this line: "Ron struggled for a moment before managing to extract his wand from his pocket." So Ron drew his wand after the duel.

That doesn't prove that he didn't have it out in the duel, all it proves is that he re-drew is later.

If memory serves me correct Yaxely was standing at the door, wand out ready to react to something if need be when Harry came out of nowhere and subdued him.

Harry hit him when he was disappearing through the door. He was leaving the tower, not knowing there was someone besides his companions. The book mentioned he was hit in the back, Merlin's beard.

Ah my mistake, apologies mate. Still based off feats Harry>Yaxely.

Yaxely got stomped by George and Lee Jordan

Being subdued by two wizards who finished education while you're surrounded by lots of other enemies isn't such a bad feat.

The other enemies that didn't have an impact on the fight. And yes losing to two enemies who are roughly equal to random fodder Death Eaters is a horrible feat for Yaxely.

Some featless DA members were able to hold off DEs 1on1 (Dean fought Dolohov and Parvati fought Travers)

A duel that was only mentioned in passing to which we have no idea who was winning or it's length so it's hardly relevant.

. George and Lee could have a chance to take Dolohov down, too, considering my previous arguments about his fights against the student trios.

The notion that they can take down someone who stomped Moody, treating him like fodder, beat Lupin, gained the upper hand over Sirius and fought the trio simultaneously is laughable.

Scaling off Fred puts George and Lee around the level of average, fodder Death Eaters of which Hermione soloed two. Dolohov beat Lupin who spite stomped Harry who in addition got stomped by Dolohov whilst invisible and he is superior to Hermione by Author statements and feats so even if we ignore your points about multiple opponents Dolohov is still well above George and Lee, heck Harry could solo them. Dolohov is at least in Bellatrix's tier despite your claims based off his fight with Sirius in which you can scale him to Bellatrix's level.

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#69 Posted by SocaJunkie (8903 posts) - - Show Bio
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#70 Posted by deactivated-5bf470b432518 (5801 posts) - - Show Bio

@riddlerfan77 said:

@goltop: Also don't bother trying to tag or reply to @arkhamasylum3 as he has been banned.

Because he's your alt xD

He's actually not but the mods think I'm a total twat who talks to myself across multiple internet accounts. I do have a relation to the account as it happens, he's my twin brother but he is most certainly not an alt, but the mods are too short minded to see reason.

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#71 Posted by SocaJunkie (8903 posts) - - Show Bio

@socajunkie said:
@riddlerfan77 said:

@goltop: Also don't bother trying to tag or reply to @arkhamasylum3 as he has been banned.

Because he's your alt xD

He's actually not but the mods think I'm a total twat who talks to myself across multiple internet accounts. I do have a relation to the account as it happens, he's my twin brother but he is most certainly not an alt, but the mods are too short minded to see reason.

Dunno if I buy it, I tried the whole 'he's my brother' thing with an alt before, but whatever, doesn't matter I guess.

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#72 Edited by deactivated-5bf470b432518 (5801 posts) - - Show Bio

@socajunkie: I can understand your scepticism but it's the truth, not that the mods care. Actually tried that lol, and here I was thinking you were the kinda of guy who would make a good mod lol.

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#73 Posted by PenguinLover (994 posts) - - Show Bio

Bellatrix takes it, but not easily. Dolohov might not be on her level, but he's close enough to give her a fairly long fight.

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#74 Edited by SocaJunkie (8903 posts) - - Show Bio

@socajunkie: I can understand your scepticism but it's the truth, not that the mods care. lly tried that lol, and here I was thinking you were the kinda of guy who would make a good mod lol.

This was like four years ago.

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#75 Posted by deactivated-5bf470b432518 (5801 posts) - - Show Bio

@riddlerfan77 said:

@socajunkie: I can understand your scepticism but it's the truth, not that the mods care. You Actually tried that lol, and here I was thinking you were the kinda of guy who would make a good mod lol.

This was like four years ago.

Ok

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#76 Posted by Goltop (60 posts) - - Show Bio

@riddlerfan77:

That doesn't prove that he didn't have it out in the duel, all it proves is that he re-drew is later.

When Ron noticed the death eaters, he just manages to push Hermione out of the way, then Harry stuns Rowle, then Dolohov ties Ron. So he would have mere seconds to draw his wand, (which was difficult to draw), a right after he hurled himself out of the way.

Yet you're sure he had it drawn, and afterwards for some reason, takes the time to stick it right in the pocket of his problematicaly tight jeans while still in the cafe. There was no reason to stick it back ,Harry and Hermione kept them drawn, too.

The other enemies that didn't have an impact on the fight. And yes losing to two enemies who are roughly equal to random fodder Death Eaters is a horrible feat for Yaxely.

Numbers always matter and being subdued by two DEs wouldn't be a bad feat for anyone besides Bellatrix and above.

A duel that was only mentioned in passing to which we have no idea who was winning or it's length so it's hardly relevant.

True, but Dean managed to take out another distrated DE while fighting him, and based on your claims about Dolohov "fighting" the trio and having feats and speed on Bellatrix's level, he should have taken him down pretty quickly.

The notion that they can take down someone who stomped Moody, treating him like fodder,

You can't possibly determine the nature of their encounter, we just know Moody got cursed by him. There's no info on whether Moody wasn't fighing someone else when Dolohov assaulted him. Even if it was a "fair" fight, you canand t tell it was a stomp. And Mooody in his retirement isn't as good as in his prime.

beat Lupin, gained the upper hand over Sirius and fought the trio simultaneously is laughable.

Dolohov is at least in Bellatrix's tier despite your claims based off his fight with Sirius in which you can scale him to Bellatrix's level.

His duel with Sirius lasted less than half a minute, and we don't know if Sirius couldn't defend from his curse himself. I already expained he never fought all memebers of the trio simultaneously.

Scaling off Fred puts George and Lee around the level of average, fodder Death Eaters of which Hermione soloed two.

Do you mean Battle of Hogwarts, where she made them slide down the stairs? Bcs that clearly isn't a regular duel.

Dolohov beat Lupin who spite stomped Harry who in addition got stomped by Dolohov whilst invisible and

JKR stated Lupin was out of shape, during Battle of Hogwarts, but okay it's still it is a good feat, but again it's 1on1 and Lupin was also never shown dealing with two duelists at once even if they were fodder.

he is superior to Hermione by Author statements and feats

There couldn't be a big skill gap between Harry and Hermione in book 7. Later as an Auror,there should be a considerable gap, but here he couldn't be way above her- she has good speed, use of nonverbal magic, and better versatility.

so even if we ignore your points about multiple opponents Dolohov is still well above George and Lee, heck Harry could solo them.

Harry never soloed two older students at once. There is no evidence he should be much better than either of them individualy - they all were in DA, so they basically knew what he did about duelling. There was nothing in his duelling skill they wouldn't be able to replicate.

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#77 Posted by deactivated-5bf470b432518 (5801 posts) - - Show Bio

@goltop said:

@riddlerfan77:

That doesn't prove that he didn't have it out in the duel, all it proves is that he re-drew is later.

When Ron noticed the death eaters, he just manages to push Hermione out of the way, then Harry stuns Rowle, then Dolohov ties Ron. So he would have mere seconds to draw his wand, (which was difficult to draw), a right after he hurled himself out of the way.

more than long enough, most wizards can draw their wands in less than a second.

Yet you're sure he had it drawn, and afterwards for some reason, takes the time to stick it right in the pocket of his problematicaly tight jeans while still in the cafe. There was no reason to stick it back ,Harry and Hermione kept them drawn, too.

Harry and Hermione's actions aren't relevant, and the threat was eliminated so why would he need to keep his wand out.

The other enemies that didn't have an impact on the fight. And yes losing to two enemies who are roughly equal to random fodder Death Eaters is a horrible feat for Yaxely.

Numbers always matter and being subdued by two DEs wouldn't be a bad feat for anyone besides Bellatrix and above.

It is because Kingsley fought multiple death eaters at once repeatedly and won so no, this extends to people far below Bellatrix, Death Eaters aren't a threat unless there is four or five of them or if they are elites like Bellatrix and Dolohov.

A duel that was only mentioned in passing to which we have no idea who was winning or it's length so it's hardly relevant.

True, but Dean managed to take out another distrated DE while fighting him, and based on your claims about Dolohov "fighting" the trio and having feats and speed on Bellatrix's level, he should have taken him down pretty quickly.

Yes but we have no indication the fight was quick and he never knocked out another Death Eater whilst fighting Dolohov that was Parvati. This same statement applies to Bellatrix with Harry [She got tagged by him and failed to subdue him like Dolohov with Dean] but you ignore that as well. You are lowballing the crap out of Dolohov and highballing the crap out of Bellatrix.

The notion that they can take down someone who stomped Moody, treating him like fodder,

You can't possibly determine the nature of their encounter, we just know Moody got cursed by him. There's no info on whether Moody wasn't fighing someone else when Dolohov assaulted him. Even if it was a "fair" fight, you canand t tell it was a stomp. And Mooody in his retirement isn't as good as in his prime.

I'm well aware of Moody not being in his prime thanks, I don't need to be told. It was a stomp, it was over in ten seconds flat.

beat Lupin, gained the upper hand over Sirius and fought the trio simultaneously is laughable.

Dolohov is at least in Bellatrix's tier despite your claims based off his fight with Sirius in which you can scale him to Bellatrix's level.

His duel with Sirius lasted less than half a minute, and we don't know if Sirius couldn't defend from his curse himself.

Based off the fact that the curse was strong enough to put Hermione in critical condition for weeks, is serious dark magic and broke through Harry's shield charm, yes it's fair to say that it would have at leas thrown Sirius off balance. In the fight they were presented as equals with Dolohov gaining the upper-hand so yes it is comparable to Bellatrix.

I already expained he never fought all memebers of the trio simultaneously.

You've done a rather poor job of it.

Scaling off Fred puts George and Lee around the level of average, fodder Death Eaters of which Hermione soloed two.

Do you mean Battle of Hogwarts, where she made them slide down the stairs? Bcs that clearly isn't a regular duel.

Yeah it is, she used transfiguration to her advantage to subdue them. I don't see your point.

Dolohov beat Lupin who spite stomped Harry who in addition got stomped by Dolohov whilst invisible and

JKR stated Lupin was out of shape, during Battle of Hogwarts, but okay it's still it is a good feat, but again it's 1on1 and Lupin was also never shown dealing with two duelists at once even if they were fodder.

Yes but scaling off Hermione Lupin is more than capable of fighting multiple wizards at once and him being out of shape doesn't mean that he was pathetic or anything, he was in good enough condition to fight so it's fair to say that Dolohov>Lupin.

he is superior to Hermione by Author statements and feats

There couldn't be a big skill gap between Harry and Hermione in book 7. Later as an Auror,there should be a considerable gap, but here he couldn't be way above her- she has good speed, use of nonverbal magic, and better versatility.

Hermione's skilled but Harry is more skilled. The gab may not be large but it's still present so my scaling works.

so even if we ignore your points about multiple opponents Dolohov is still well above George and Lee, heck Harry could solo them.

Harry never soloed two older students at once.

No but by feats and statements [By the Author herself] he's above someone who soloed two Death Eaters so yes he's above two people especially two people who are equal to fodder Death Eaters.

There is no evidence he should be much better than either of them individualy - they all were in DA, so they basically knew what he did about duelling. There was nothing in his duelling skill they wouldn't be able to replicate.

Ignores the fact that Harry by feats and scaling is vastly superior to either of them. Them being in the D.A doesn't automatically mean they are as skilled as Harry he has better feats and by scaling is above them.

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#78 Posted by Goltop (60 posts) - - Show Bio

@riddlerfan77:

more than long enough, most wizards can draw their wands in less than a second.

Harry and Hermione's actions aren't relevant, and the threat was eliminated so why would he need to keep his wand out.

It wouldn't be so fast under the mentioned circumstances - just think of it, why the hell whould JKR put such a line about difficulty drawing his wand? It was the first time Ron mentioned drawing his wand since they were in the cafe. And even if he somehow managed that, the spell would already had hit him before he points it.

It is because Kingsley fought multiple death eaters at once repeatedly and won so no, this extends to people far below Bellatrix, Death Eaters aren't a threat unless there is four or five of them or if they are elites like Bellatrix and Dolohov.

He defeated two at once, and then he "fights his way out" of a bunch of them, meaning he didn't need to beat them, just escape. Those are good feats and it's the reason Kingsley is held in high regard. But it doesn't guarantee he can always win against them - DEs have varying level of skill and classifying most of them as "fodder" isn't precise.

And most Order members were shown to duel one DE at a time, including Tonks, McGonagall, Lupin.

I already expained he never fought all memebers of the trio simultaneously.

You've done a rather poor job of it.

You keep underestimating the importance of given circumstances and that's not my fault.

Yeah it is, she used transfiguration to her advantage to subdue them. I don't see your point.

This is getting absurd. Once again, I have to expain that surroundings and circumstances matter. She wouldn't be able to do such a maneuver if not at the given place. I know her versatility is an advantage and stuff but in regular duels, she throws stunners and other jinxes just like Ron and Harry. Using this occasion as a proof that she can solo two DEs is nonsense, you would basically say she's on the level of a quite skilled auror.

Yes but scaling off Hermione Lupin is more than capable of fighting multiple wizards at once and him being out of shape doesn't mean that he was pathetic or anything, he was in good enough condition to fight so it's fair to say that Dolohov>Lupin

And now you use this single, surrounding-conditional feat to scale someone else, who hasn't fought two opponents at once. And yes, of course Lupin was in condition to fight, but he would have fought better if he hadn't have spent last moths inactively.

Hermione's skilled but Harry is more skilled. The gab may not be large but it's still present so my scaling works.

No but by feats and statements [By the Author herself] he's above someone who soloed two Death Eaters so yes he's above two people especially two people who are equal to fodder Death Eaters.

Ignores the fact that Harry by feats and scaling is vastly superior to either of them. Them being in the D.A doesn't automatically mean they are as skilled as Harry he has better feats and by scaling is above them

This whole scaling is nonsense. Harry he isn't experienced enough and hasn't showed amazing magical abilities, so there is no way he's vastly better than either of them. Of sourse, if you mentioned younger students, like Colin Creevy, Luna, you may be right but these are older than him. And Fred and George already fought alongside the Order in the Seven Potters fight.

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#79 Posted by deactivated-5bf470b432518 (5801 posts) - - Show Bio

@goltop said:

@riddlerfan77:

more than long enough, most wizards can draw their wands in less than a second.

Harry and Hermione's actions aren't relevant, and the threat was eliminated so why would he need to keep his wand out.

It wouldn't be so fast under the mentioned circumstances - just think of it, why the hell whould JKR put such a line about difficulty drawing his wand? It was the first time Ron mentioned drawing his wand since they were in the cafe. And even if he somehow managed that, the spell would already had hit him before he points it.

You don't have to point your wand to doge or block a spell.

It is because Kingsley fought multiple death eaters at once repeatedly and won so no, this extends to people far below Bellatrix, Death Eaters aren't a threat unless there is four or five of them or if they are elites like Bellatrix and Dolohov.

He defeated two at once, and then he "fights his way out" of a bunch of them, meaning he didn't need to beat them, just escape. Those are good feats and it's the reason Kingsley is held in high regard. But it doesn't guarantee he can always win against them - DEs have varying level of skill and classifying most of them as "fodder" isn't precise.

The two Death Eaters Kingsley fought were elites that's what makes it so impressive, normally he's worth about five or six Death Eaters based off the fact that he subdued five at once. Most of Voldemort's army was made up of ministry officials that had been blackmailed or cursed, so in other words yes they are average wizards with no duelling experience [They don't practice duelling regularly or keep their reflexes up to date] so yes most of them are cannon fodder who get they're strength in groups of about five or six.

And most Order members were shown to duel one DE at a time, including Tonks, McGonagall, Lupin.

That's because they were fighting Voldemort's elite enforcers, not random cannon fodder which is why they struggled so much. We never saw them fight cannon fodder on page.

I already expained he never fought all memebers of the trio simultaneously.

You've done a rather poor job of it.

You keep underestimating the importance of given circumstances and that's not my fault.

There were no circumstances, you just keep pretending there are as an excuse to wank Bellatrix and lowball Dolohov.

Yeah it is, she used transfiguration to her advantage to subdue them. I don't see your point.

This is getting absurd. Once again, I have to expain that surroundings and circumstances matter. She wouldn't be able to do such a maneuver if not at the given place. I know her versatility is an advantage and stuff but in regular duels, she throws stunners and other jinxes just like Ron and Harry. Using this occasion as a proof that she can solo two DEs is nonsense, you would basically say she's on the level of a quite skilled auror.

An Auror is on par with 3-4 and a high tier Auror is on par with 5-6 so no, she's not better than an Auror. She used her surroundings to her advantage something that's common in HP duelling. Basically what you're saying is that Minerva wouldn't be able to fight Snape and Dumbledore is far below Voldemort just because they manipulated the environment, something done regularly in duelling

Yes but scaling off Hermione Lupin is more than capable of fighting multiple wizards at once and him being out of shape doesn't mean that he was pathetic or anything, he was in good enough condition to fight so it's fair to say that Dolohov>Lupin

And now you use this single, surrounding-conditional feat to scale someone else, who hasn't fought two opponents at once. And yes, of course Lupin was in condition to fight, but he would have fought better if he hadn't have spent last moths inactively.

Thank you for your insight. I'm saying that Dolohov>Lupin based off both this fight and overall feats. Lupin would have fought better yes but there is no indication he would have won.

Hermione's skilled but Harry is more skilled. The gab may not be large but it's still present so my scaling works.

No but by feats and statements [By the Author herself] he's above someone who soloed two Death Eaters so yes he's above two people especially two people who are equal to fodder Death Eaters.

Ignores the fact that Harry by feats and scaling is vastly superior to either of them. Them being in the D.A doesn't automatically mean they are as skilled as Harry he has better feats and by scaling is above them

This whole scaling is nonsense.

Yet you've done jack shit to disprove it. Hermione soloed two Death Eaters [Putting her above George and Lee Jordan who in turn defeated Yaxely], by Author statements/hype she's weaker than Harry who got one shotted by Lupin who lost to Dolohov.

Basically Dolohov>Lupin>Harry>Hermione>Two Death Eaters=George and Lee Jordan>Yaxely

Harry he isn't experienced enough and hasn't showed amazing magical abilities, so there is no way he's vastly better than either of them. Of sourse, if you mentioned younger students, like Colin Creevy, Luna, you may be right but these are older than him. And Fred and George already fought alongside the Order in the Seven Potters fight.

This is your argument. I've used logic, feats and scaling which put Harry above this due yet he's weaker than them because, he's younger? If this was the case then he must be weaker than an average fodder Death Eater because that guy is older but we no this is not the case. We never saw what they accomplished In that battle so as far as feats go it's irrelevant. Harry hasn't showed amazing magical abilities. That's why he became a top tier Auror, that's why his reflexes are excellent, that's why he got good grades and was the king of Defence Against The Dark Arts at school, that's why he could routinely duel Death Eaters as a teen, because he's not magically talented. I'm done, he's apparently not better than two people who are equal to a fodder Death Eater even though Author statements put him above someone who can solo two of them.

Dumbledore>Grindelwald>Voldemort>Amelia Bones>Flitwick>Dolohov>Bellatrix=Snape=Sirius>Kingley=Mcgonagall>Lupin>Moody>Fodder Auror=Tonks>Harry>Hermione>Most high tier Death Eaters>Other D.A members=Fodder Death Eaters [That's how Harry Potter characters go in duelling skill tell me if I missed anybody]

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#80 Posted by EmmaFrostXmen (3188 posts) - - Show Bio

Bellatrix stomps based on feats. She has some of the best dueling feats in all of the Harry Potter verse

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#81 Posted by deactivated-5bf470b432518 (5801 posts) - - Show Bio

Bellatrix stomps based on feats. She has some of the best dueling feats in all of the Harry Potter verse

The lowballing here is something else.

Dolohov fought a vastly more impressive trio than Bellatrix did yet he brought down two of them, whilst she was stalemated.

Dolohov gained the upper-hand against Sirius, she failed to do so [Despite duelling him for twice as long] and needed him to become overconfident too.

Dolohov also defeated Lupin and Mad Eye.

Both of them have some of the best feats in the verse in regards to duelling. No one is "stomping" despite your claims. I think Dolohov wins but Bellatrix winning isn't entirely implausible. Saying either stomps though is ludicrous and should be treated as such.

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#82 Posted by EmmaFrostXmen (3188 posts) - - Show Bio

@riddlerfan77: that’s all they are claims, my opinion is by no means a fact. The only reason bellatrix has ever lost fights was due to her becoming over confident. If she was not taunting Sirius during their duel she would have won, and losing to Molly was a mix of not having her original wand, being overconfident, and just finishing a duel with 3 other powerful witches likely causing her to be tired. And she was not completely stalemated she almost killed Ginny during that duel so she would have eventually won if Molly had not intervened. Also bellatrix was the only person besides Voldemort to block a spell from dombledore. His dueling feats are not as good as hers.

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#83 Posted by deactivated-5bf470b432518 (5801 posts) - - Show Bio

@riddlerfan77: that’s all they are claims, my opinion is by no means a fact.

False claims.

The only reason bellatrix has ever lost fights was due to her becoming over confident.

Dumbledore restraining her with ease. Ron surprising and disarming her. Lol at the idea that she's overconfident that's why she loses.

If she was not taunting Sirius during their duel she would have won,

It was Sirius who was overconfident, laughing and mocking her. She fought him dead even and only won due to overconfidence. They are equals. Dolohov was gaining the upper-hand over Sirius in pure skill implying that Dolohov>Bellatrix=Sirius.

and losing to Molly was a mix of not having her original wand, being overconfident, and just finishing a duel with 3 other powerful witches likely causing her to be tired.

Literally every wizard in the final battle was exhausted, that's not an excuse. Molly beating Bellatrix was not something I brought up, I don't see why it's relevant to this discussion. It's P.I.S nothing more.

And she was not completely stalemated she almost killed Ginny during that duel so she would have eventually won if Molly had not intervened.

This is horseshit logic right here. Bellatrix almost killing Ginny doesn't put her over them at all because she failed to do so. Almost isn't good enough and never will be. Dolohov subdued Harry and Ron in a simultaneous duel against the trio compared to Bellatrix who got stalemated by a far less impressive trio.

Harry>>>>>>>>>Ginny, Hermione=Hermione, Ron>>>>Luna.

Also bellatrix was the only person besides Voldemort to block a spell from dombledore.

This feat is overrated as hell. Dumbledore isn't infallible, his spells don't always pass the opponents guard and him one shotting fodder and the failing to do so to Bellatrix just proves that Bellatrix is above fodder, not Dolohov.

His dueling feats are not as good as hers.

Believe what you will but that doesn't make it true. By feats and scaling Dolohov is better.

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#84 Posted by EmmaFrostXmen (3188 posts) - - Show Bio

@riddlerfan77: who the Fu** are you to tell me that my opinion is false. Well if you can just say I’m wrong than you are wrong. I do admit I forgot about dombledore easily restraining her but that would have happened to anyone but Voldemort.

In a wizarding duel you cannot use abc logic. You can’t say cuz Dolohov had the upper hand against Sirius that he is automatically better than bellatrix. Dolohov wasn’t overconfident bellatrix was, making the circumstances very different for both duelists. Emotion heavily affects the outcome of a duel.

ABC logic never works try again.

Bellatrix would have killed one of the three girls eventually and than the other two would have been destroyed by her. Bellatrix was on the offensive and Luna, Ginny, and hermione were on the defensive. Thus telling us that she had the upper hand.

Dolohov has never blocked a spell from the strongest wizard currently alive(when this feats occurred).

Believe what you will but saying your opinion as fact is false and not ethically correct. They have never dueled before and that makes what we are saying our opinions no a 100% clear cut win.

Me saying someone wins is fine because that is what I think. You saying u are right is obviously not correct.

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#85 Edited by deactivated-5bf470b432518 (5801 posts) - - Show Bio

@emmafrostxmen said:

@riddlerfan77: who the Fu** are you to tell me that my opinion is false.

You do realise the F word even censored is banned on the vine right. I've no option but to flag you for inappropriate language.

Well if you can just say I’m wrong than you are wrong.

Not how it works. You made false claims which contradict what was written down in the HP text, I didn't.

I do admit I forgot about dombledore easily restraining her but that would have happened to anyone but Voldemort.

You claimed that she never lost to anyone unless they were overconfident I merely pointed out that she did, therefore that claim is false.

In a wizarding duel you cannot use abc logic.

Based off HP being largely consistant despite a few small blunders on Rowling's part yes you absolutely can.

You can’t say cuz Dolohov had the upper hand against Sirius that he is automatically better than Bellatrix.

Yes I can because she was dead even with Sirius, Dolohov was superior.

Dolohov wasn’t overconfident bellatrix was, making the circumstances very different for both duelists. Emotion heavily affects the outcome of a duel.

Bellatrix was not overconfident Siriuswas. Bellatrix stalemated Sirius only winning de to Sirius being overconfident, Dolohov was winning against Sirius without circumstances.

ABC logic never works try again.

Why don't you try to not be condescending?

Bellatrix would have killed one of the three girls eventually and than the other two would have been destroyed by her.

More false claims without evidence to back them up. Bellatrix was described as directly equal to them not superior.

Bellatrix was on the offensive and Luna, Ginny, and hermione were on the defensive.

False again. This was not the case at all and there is no evidence to support this.

Thus telling us that she had the upper hand.

Fighting defensively does not mean you're losing otherwise Snape would be inferior to McGonagall which is so blatantly not the case.

Dolohov has never blocked a spell from the strongest wizard currently alive(when this feats occurred).

Snape never beat Pettigrew so that means he can't. Bellatrix never beat Lockhart so therefore she can't. This logic is so ridiculously false that it's not funny. Just because you've never done something doesn't mean you can't.

Believe what you will but saying your opinion as fact is false and not ethically correct.

I never claimed my opinion was a fact, I claimed that several of the instances you are referring to in HP did not happen and are invalid false claims that hold no water in a debate.

They have never dueled before and that makes what we are saying our opinions no a 100% clear cut win.

Debating with someone over opinions doesn't mean that I consider my opinion a fact, poking holes in false logic that you have used here doesn't mean that. My opinion is not a fact but a lot of what you said here regardless of my opinion is factually wrog.

Me saying someone wins is fine because that is what I think. You saying u are right is obviously not correct.

See above.

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#86 Posted by Kilius (1625 posts) - - Show Bio

I don't see much disparity. They've both been cheap shot by the trio. They both fought Sirius as equals. They've both beaten very powerful aurors one on one: Dolohov x Moody and Lupin Bellatrix x Kingsley and Tonks.

The snatcher feat is overblown. First she cheap shot one, the other three were caught off guard and likely didn't have time to compose an adequate defense. Greyback isn't a particularly powerful wizard; Harry one shot him. Dolohov cursing Hermione, breaking Neville's wand, and having Harry dead to rights isn't far off.

We don't know what spell Dumbledore used against Bellatrix. If he used Stupfey; something he used to subdue Crouch, it's not unimaginable that Dolohov could do the same. Overall the feat isn't quantifiable unless we know the spell used. The only thing we know for sure is that both would be stomped very quickly in a real fight with Dumbledore. Not getting one shot and latter getting stomped isn't really that impressive. It certainly doesn't prove she's better than Dolohov who never even had a chance to prove himself against Dumbledore.

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#87 Posted by EmmaFrostXmen (3188 posts) - - Show Bio
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#88 Posted by deactivated-5bf470b432518 (5801 posts) - - Show Bio

@riddlerfan77: awwww u seem so mad. Bellatrix stomps

Funny how you try to antagonize me just because you know you suck at debating and counter my points. No reasoning behind your argument just false baseless claims from someone who has no clue what they're talking about. I have no time for you loser, just remember you can't debate to save your life.

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#89 Posted by EmmaFrostXmen (3188 posts) - - Show Bio

@riddlerfan77: no I don’t suck at debating I just don’t care for this one in particular. You can’t change my mind and I can’t change yours, so whats the point in arguing. Personally I have never seen anything impressive from Dolohov accept stalemating the trio and getting the upper hand on Sirius. Bella’s one feat of blocking dombledore’s spell is more impressive to me simply because no one else has done it(besides Voldemort). And if Dolohov was so good than why was bellatrix vokdemorts Best lieutenant.... oh yea because she is a better duelist.

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#90 Posted by deactivated-5bf470b432518 (5801 posts) - - Show Bio

@riddlerfan77: no I don’t suck at debating

Sure about that.

I just don’t care for this one in particular.

Yeah, totally.

You can’t change my mind and I can’t change yours, so whats the point in arguing.

Then what's the point in any debate.

Personally I have never seen anything impressive from Dolohov accept stalemating the trio and getting the upper hand on Sirius.

This stuff is more impressive than anything Bellatrix has done so now she's unimpressive apparently.

Bella’s one feat of blocking dombledore’s spell is more impressive to me simply because no one else has done it(besides Voldemort).

Because no other notable wizard aside from the two them as attempted to do it. The only other people who've tried are fodder Death Eaters. Lol, this feat deserves none of the wank it gets.

And if Dolohov was so good than why was bellatrix vokdemorts Best lieutenant.... oh yea because she is a better duelist.

As usual proving how much of a dumbass you are. Voldemort favoured bloodline and loyalty over duelling skill that's why Malfoy was his primary lieutenant [Who by scaling is at least worse than Dolohov and I'd say Bellatrix by extension as well as Yaxely, Crouch Junior ect.] until OOTP [Yes he was more valued by Voldemort than Bellatrix at that point].

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#91 Posted by EmmaFrostXmen (3188 posts) - - Show Bio

@riddlerfan77: when people are debating its to change the others mind or at least to get them to see your point of view. You are extremely hard headed and are treating your opinion as fact therefore I don’t care for this debate. When Dolohov blocks dombledore’s spell I will agree with you but it has ndver happened. And I know Voldemort favors pure blooded witches/wizards. Also Dolohov was defeated by Filius Flitwick, while he is a famed duelist it’s mostly only stated and never shown. Filius has no feats other than this therefore he was defeated by a featless wizard. While Molly was also a featless witch bellatrix was fighting 3 powerful witches immediately prior to her duel with Molly therefore we can assume she was tired, Bella also wasn’t using her OG wand, and she got cocky. Also Dolohov literally has like 2 feats and ur trying to tell me Bella’s feats are not as good......R u okay????(Bella’s feats: She blocked a spell from DD, stomped Shacklebolt, Tonks, and defeated Sirius in the same fight, and was beating 3 of the best students at Hogwarts currently).

Dolohov’s best feat is actually beating moody which I forgot about, and in my mind makes this fight much closer. Moody is a very famous duelist and while no longer in his prime is still very powerful. I am no longer sure who winz. But technically I changed my own mind. I don’t see why you wouldn’t bring up him defeating moody.

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#92 Posted by deactivated-5bf470b432518 (5801 posts) - - Show Bio

@riddlerfan77: when people are debating its to change the others mind or at least to get them to see your point of view. You are extremely hard headed and are treating your opinion as fact therefore I don’t care for this debate.

Fair enough.

When Dolohov blocks dombledore’s spell I will agree with you but it has ndver happened.

Bellatrix can't defeat Pettigrew then because it "never happened". That logic is terrible and you know it. The claim of Dumbledore's spells is that they one shotted fodder so that must make Bellatrix a God to deflect his spell right. Nope.

And I know Voldemort favors pure blooded witches/wizards.

Then why did you use this statement to put Bellatrix ahead of Dolohov.

Also Dolohov was defeated by Filius Flitwick, while he is a famed duelist it’s mostly only stated and never shown. Filius has no feats other than this therefore he was defeated by a featless wizard.

The fact that you are using the fact that Dolohov lost to a wizard famed for combat with no showings that contradict him beating Dolohov as a feat against Dolohov is embarrassing.

While Molly was also a featless witch bellatrix was fighting 3 powerful witches immediately prior to her duel with Molly therefore we can assume she was tired, Bella also wasn’t using her OG wand, and she got cocky.

I'm well aware of the fact that Bellatrix lost to Molly due to circumstance, I never brought it up so why are you. It's not relevant.

Also Dolohov literally has like 2 feats and ur trying to tell me Bella’s feats are not as good......R u okay????(Bella’s feats: She blocked a spell from DD, stomped Shacklebolt, Tonks, and defeated Sirius in the same fight, and was beating 3 of the best students at Hogwarts currently).

Blocking a spell from DD isn't impressive just because DD one shotted fodder doesn't mean he can't be blocked. She wasn't beating that trio at all now you're just making things up the text literally says that they were dead even. She beat Sirius under very specific circumstances.

Dolohov's feats [Fighting Harry, Ron and Hermione simultaneously and defeating two of them. Vastly more impressive than Bellatrix stalemating a far less impressive trio of Ginny, Hermione and Luna]

[Gaining the upper-hand over Sirius is more impressive than Bellatrix failing to do so and winning because of a cheap shot because Sirius was cocky. Dolohov is Sirius's superior, Bellatrix is Sirius's equal]

[Beating Harry, Neville and Hermione Simultaneously is more impressive then beating four fodder snatchers]

[Beating Kingsley is more impressive than beating Moody but this is the only feat that Bellatrix has that's superior when compared to one of Dolohov's]

[Beating Lupin is more impressive than beating Tonks]

Look at this analysis of the feats. Dolohov is more impressive.

Dolohov’s best feat is actually beating moody which I forgot about, and in my mind makes this fight much closer. Moody is a very famous duelist and while no longer in his prime is still very powerful. I am no longer sure who winz. But technically I changed my own mind. I don’t see why you wouldn’t bring up him defeating moody.

Because Moody is fodder well past his prime who didn't win a single fight in the whole series. Unlike Kingsley who fought multiple opponents at once routinely Moody got beaten by Crouch Junior and spite-stomped by Dolohov.

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#93 Edited by deactivated-5bf470b432518 (5801 posts) - - Show Bio

@emmafrostxmen: Also this completely destroys any argument that Bellatrix was beating the trio.

Bellatrix was still fighting too, fifty yards away from Voldemort and like her master she duelled three at once: Hermione, Ginny and Luna, all three battling their hardest but she was equal to them

-Deathly Hallows Page 589

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#94 Edited by Bayman007 (1983 posts) - - Show Bio

Bellatrix stomps this guy.

Dolohov was eeeeasily subdued by Dumbledore, along with some other death eaters at the same time. Bellatrix was able to deflect the same spell!! On top of this, she was once able to deflect one of Harrys own spells back at him, the moment he cast it. That's some good reflexes for an older gal.

Dolohov could cast the unforgivable curses, but Bellatrix knew spells that he couldn't comprehend the power of. She was Voldermots 'best lieutenant' becuase of this. She was also the last death eater standing (apart from Lord Voldemort) during the big battle, and she fought using a wand which wasn't even hers.

She has more power, and more speed. And much more Stomp.

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#95 Posted by Helloman (30115 posts) - - Show Bio

Bellatrix wins.

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#96 Posted by EmmaFrostXmen (3188 posts) - - Show Bio

@riddlerfan77: Yes Filius Flitwick could have been considered fodder because he like mad eye has not defeated a single opponent besides Dolohov.(I know fillies isn’t fodder I am just saying he lacks the sheer multitude of feats other characters have).

Mad eye was far from fodder even in old age. His magic was still just as powerful he just lacks the speed and reaction time he used to have.

Also Dolohov was hit by the spell bellatrix blocked IIRC(dombledore’s spell)(so I am not sure and I don’t have my books with me to check).

Bellatrix also has the best speed feats in the entire series. With many descriptions for her duels highlighting her speed. She beat all of the fodder snatchers in seconds. And she deflected Harry’s spell directly back at him as he casted it.

Also belkatrix did not just beat Kingsley she stomped him. And Kingsley has many great feats such as bring one of the trio to stalemate Voldemort.

Also bellatrix fought hermione, Luna, and Ginny at a later date therefore they were more powerful than when Dolohov fought his harry, hermione, and nevil. Hermione>Hermione, Ginny<Harry, and Neville=Luna. Also I know she didn’t fight them much later but it was still a while and they are always learning new spells and getting more powerful.

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#97 Posted by deactivated-5bf470b432518 (5801 posts) - - Show Bio

@riddlerfan77: Yes Filius Flitwick could have been considered fodder because he like mad eye has not defeated a single opponent besides Dolohov.(I know fillies isn’t fodder I am just saying he lacks the sheer multitude of feats other characters have).

Um no. Quality of feats>Qauntity of feats. Beating Dolohov puts him light years above most duellists in the series. Bellatrix is now worse than Harry because she has "Less feats" despite having vastly more impressive one's. Flitwick was a wizard who specialized in combat based off statements and beat Dolohov, basically he's super op.

Mad eye was far from fodder even in old age. His magic was still just as powerful he just lacks the speed and reaction time he used to have.

That's why he lost both fights he was in, the second one in a stomp. Because he's so powerful.

Also Dolohov was hit by the spell bellatrix blocked IIRC(dombledore’s spell)(so I am not sure and I don’t have my books with me to check).

Dolohov was incapacitated about a minute before Dumbledore entered the room, he never had a confrontation with him, stop making things up to fit your bias.

Bellatrix also has the best speed feats in the entire series. With many descriptions for her duels highlighting her speed. She beat all of the fodder snatchers in seconds. And she deflected Harry’s spell directly back at him as he casted it.

Dolohov mirrored Harry's draw in speed without trying, defeated Lupin who blitzed Harry better than anyone in the series, dodged a spell from an invisible Harry, reacted to multiple wizards at the same time ect.

Also belkatrix did not just beat Kingsley she stomped him. And Kingsley has many great feats such as bring one of the trio to stalemate Voldemort.

Kingsley is a good duellist who can defeat multiple opponents at once yes but it's not as good as Dolohov's feats.

Also bellatrix fought hermione, Luna, and Ginny at a later date therefore they were more powerful than when Dolohov fought his harry, hermione, and nevil.

Yes the trio was more impressive but whilst Dolohov won they stalemated Bellatrix.

Hermione>Hermione, Ginny<Harry, and Neville=Luna. Also I know she didn’t fight them much later but it was still a while and they are always learning new spells and getting more powerful.

See above and it's not as impressive as Dolohov fighting Harry, Ron and Hermione at the same time, a vastly more impressive trio with as much experience and nearly winning, subduing two out of three members.

Bellatrix stomps this guy.

No one is stomping.

Dolohov was eeeeasily subdued by Dumbledore, along with some other death eaters at the same time. Bellatrix was able to deflect the same spell!! On top of this, she was once able to deflect one of Harrys own spells back at him, the moment he cast it. That's some good reflexes for an older gal.

Dolohov was taken down by a surprise attack long before Dumbledore entered so false claims.

Dolohov could cast the unforgivable curses, but Bellatrix knew spells that he couldn't comprehend the power of. She was Voldermots 'best lieutenant' becuase of this. She was also the last death eater standing (apart from Lord Voldemort) during the big battle, and she fought using a wand which wasn't even hers.

Lol she was his best lieutenant due to loyalty and bloodline, not power. She was the last standing because she had an easier duel to fight than Dolohov. In regards to spells you do realise Dolohov created his own dark magic spells specifically for the purpose of wounding and killing.

She has more power, and more speed. And much more Stomp.

Evidence.

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#98 Edited by Bayman007 (1983 posts) - - Show Bio

@riddlerfan77:

Yes, Bellatrix is stomping.

It's been an age since i read Order of the Pheonix, so was going from some memory, but i have revisited the book and still all it proves is Dolohovs is no where near Bellatrix in terms of Power, Speed and Stomp. I'll go with the Battle of the Department of Mysteries, as this is what i was talking about. More proof can be added.

Dolohov's Hits taken and received

Dolohov and another death eater join the battle and BOTH are able to knock Harry, Hermione and Neville off their feet with a spell

Before she could complete the spell the door had burst open and the two Death Eaters had come hurtling inside. With a cry of triumph, both yelled: 'IMPEDIMENTA!' Harry, Hermione and Neville were all knocked backwards off their feet;

Almost straight away Hermione Silences him.

'WE'VE GOT HIM!' yelled the Death Eater nearest Harry. 'IN AN OFFICE OFF--''Silencio!' cried Hermione and the man's voice was extinguished. He continued to mouth through the hole in his mask, but no sound came out. He was thrust aside by his fellow Death Eater.

At this point Herminone is caught with a self-created spell from Dolohov ‘Puple flames’ that takes her out of the fight,

But the Death Eater Hermione had just struck dumb made a sudden slashing movement with his wand; a streak of what looked like purple flame passed right across Hermione's chest. She gave a tiny 'Oh!' as though of surprise and crumpled on to the floor, where she lay motionless.

Harry took him out of the fight here for the first time, until he was freed.

Then there was a crash outside the door and Dolohov looked over his shoulder--the baby-headed Death Eater had appeared in the doorway, his head bawling, his great fists still flailing uncontrollably at everything around him. Harry seized his chance: 'PETRIFICUS TOTALUS!' The spell hit Dolohov before he could block it and he toppled forwards across his comrade, both of them rigid as boards and unable to move an inch.

Dolohov managed to hit his target here, which made Neville dance…..

His attacker was now bearing down upon Harry and Neville: Dolohov, his long pale face twisted with glee. 'Tarantallegra!' he shouted, his wand pointing at Neville, whose legs went immediately into a kind of frenzied tap-dance, unbalancing him and causing him to fall to the floor again.

Again Harry is able to block the brunt of his next attack.

'Now, Potter--' He made the same slashing movement with his wand that he had used on Hermione just as Harry yelled, 'Protego!' Harry felt something streak across his face like a blunt knife; the force of it knocked him sideways and he fell over Neville's jerking legs, but the Shield Charm had stopped the worst of the spell.

Harry once again takes him out of the fight, you call it a sneak attack, but no, he is involved in a battle with multiple targets and so far has not exactly shown much self-awareness or vigilance has he…..

Dolohov drew back his wand to make the same slashing movement he had used on Harry and Hermione. Springing up, Harry yelled, 'Petrificus Totalus!' Once again, Dolohov's arms and legs snapped together and he keeled over backwards, landing with a crash on his back.

Bellatrix's Hits taken and received

First Bellatrix hits Neville with the Crucio spell

Bellatrix raised her wand. 'Crucio!' Neville screamed, his legs drawn up to his chest so that the Death Eater holding him was momentarily holding him off the ground. The Death Eater dropped him and he fell to the floor, twitching and screaming in agony.

Tonks trying to un-successfully tag Bellatrix from the high ground

Tonks, still halfway up the tiered seats, was firing spells down at Bellatrix

Tonks getting tagged by Bellatrix

Tonks fall from halfway up the stone steps, her limp form toppling from stone seat to stone seat and Bellatrix, triumphant, running back towards the fray.

This is where Bellatrix kills Sirius after Dumbldore arrives (the only pair left still duelling)

Harry saw Sirius duck Bellatrix's jet of red light: he was laughing at her. 'Come on, you can do better than that!' he yelled, his voice echoing around the cavernous room. The second jet of light hit him squarely on the chest. The laughter had not quite died from his face, but his eyes widened in shock.

Bellatrix Takes Kingsley out here

Kingsley had run forward to continue Sirius's duel with Bellatrix. There was a loud bang and a yell from behind the dais. Harry saw Kingsley hit the ground yelling in pain:

Here she blocks Dumbledore’s spell….

Bellatrix Lestrange turned tail and ran as Dumbledore whipped around. He aimed a spell at her but she deflected it; she was halfway up the steps now –

Here she uses a spell to tip a tank onto harry

The hem of Bellatrix's robes whipped out of sight ahead and they were back in the room where the brains were swimming ...She aimed a curse over her shoulder. The tank rose into the air and tipped. Harry was deluged in the foul-smelling potion within

Here Bellatrix is hit with a spell by Harry (the only time she is hit), but shows good resistance due to its lack of potency

Hatred rose in Harry such as he had never known before; he flung himself out from behind the fountain and bellowed, 'Crucio!' Bellatrix screamed: the spell had knocked her off her feet, but she did not writhe and shriek with pain as Neville had--she was already back on her feet, breathless, no longer laughing.

Bellatrix blocking Harrys Stun showing her reaction speed…

'Stupefy!' yelled Harry. He had edged right around to where the goblin stood beaming up at the now headless wizard and taken aim at her back as she peered around the fountain. She reacted so fast he barely had time to duck.'Protego!'The jet of red light, his own Stunning Spell, bounced back at him. Harry scrambled back behind the fountain and one of the goblin's ears went flying across the room.

Total

Dolohov – 3 = hits given, 3 = hits taken

Bellatrix – 5 = hits given, 1 = hits taken

All of Bellatrix spells are more powerfull than his, and her reflexes smash him out of the water. Although he is fairly powerful, he is no where near her at all. And she is Voldermotes best lieutenant, not due to loyalty and bloodline, but mainly becuase of POWER. She even leads this group of death eaters into battle before the Dark lord arrives.

Bellatrix stomps.

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#99 Edited by Kilius (1625 posts) - - Show Bio

@bayman007:

She even leads this group of death eaters into battle before the Dark lord arrives.

Actually Lucius was in charge. He's the one speaking for the Death Eaters during both standoffs, he's the one who divides everyone into pairs, and Bellatrix herself tries to lay the blame of the fiasco on Lucius on the grounds that "he was supposed to be in charge" in HBP.

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#100 Posted by deactivated-5bf470b432518 (5801 posts) - - Show Bio

@riddlerfan77:

Yes, Bellatrix is stomping.

Lol, stop before you humiliate yourself.

It's been an age since i read Order of the Pheonix, so was going from some memory, but i have revisited the book and still all it proves is Dolohovs is no where near Bellatrix in terms of Power, Speed and Stomp. I'll go with the Battle of the Department of Mysteries, as this is what i was talking about. More proof can be added.

Ummm, Dolohov's most impressive feat is from DH's.

Dolohov's Hits taken and received

You judge characters based off hits. You shouldn't, feats are vastly more important as is scaling. Dolohov had to deal with multiple threats from different angles in the battle, Bellatrix only ever had to deal with one threat at a time.

Dolohov and another death eater join the battle and BOTH are able to knock Harry, Hermione and Neville off their feet with a spell

Before she could complete the spell the door had burst open and the two Death Eaters had come hurtling inside. With a cry of triumph, both yelled: 'IMPEDIMENTA!' Harry, Hermione and Neville were all knocked backwards off their feet;

The Death Eater who achieved nothing you mean. This was pretty much a solo win for Dolohov.

Almost straight away Hermione Silences him.

'WE'VE GOT HIM!' yelled the Death Eater nearest Harry. 'IN AN OFFICE OFF--''Silencio!' cried Hermione and the man's voice was extinguished. He continued to mouth through the hole in his mask, but no sound came out. He was thrust aside by his fellow Death Eater.

Your point. Dolohov still easily overpowers the trio.

At this point Herminone is caught with a self-created spell from Dolohov ‘Puple flames’ that takes her out of the fight,

But the Death Eater Hermione had just struck dumb made a sudden slashing movement with his wand; a streak of what looked like purple flame passed right across Hermione's chest. She gave a tiny 'Oh!' as though of surprise and crumpled on to the floor, where she lay motionless.

Yes, he also breaks Neville's wand and Harry was helpless at his mercy.

Harry took him out of the fight here for the first time, until he was freed.

Then there was a crash outside the door and Dolohov looked over his shoulder--the baby-headed Death Eater had appeared in the doorway, his head bawling, his great fists still flailing uncontrollably at everything around him. Harry seized his chance: 'PETRIFICUS TOTALUS!' The spell hit Dolohov before he could block it and he toppled forwards across his comrade, both of them rigid as boards and unable to move an inch.

Yeah, that's called a surprise attack. The same thing happened to Bellatrix before.

Dolohov managed to hit his target here, which made Neville dance…..

His attacker was now bearing down upon Harry and Neville: Dolohov, his long pale face twisted with glee. 'Tarantallegra!' he shouted, his wand pointing at Neville, whose legs went immediately into a kind of frenzied tap-dance, unbalancing him and causing him to fall to the floor again.

Yeah, Dolohov stomped him.

Again Harry is able to block the brunt of his next attack.

'Now, Potter--' He made the same slashing movement with his wand that he had used on Hermione just as Harry yelled, 'Protego!' Harry felt something streak across his face like a blunt knife; the force of it knocked him sideways and he fell over Neville's jerking legs, but the Shield Charm had stopped the worst of the spell.

By block you mean it sends him flying off his feet.

Harry once again takes him out of the fight, you call it a sneak attack, but no, he is involved in a battle with multiple targets and so far has not exactly shown much self-awareness or vigilance has he…..

Dolohov drew back his wand to make the same slashing movement he had used on Harry and Hermione. Springing up, Harry yelled, 'Petrificus Totalus!' Once again, Dolohov's arms and legs snapped together and he keeled over backwards, landing with a crash on his back.

You misses the part where he soloed Moody and stalemated Sirius, the latter of which Bellatrix failed to do.

Bellatrix's Hits taken and received

First Bellatrix hits Neville with the Crucio spell

Bellatrix raised her wand. 'Crucio!' Neville screamed, his legs drawn up to his chest so that the Death Eater holding him was momentarily holding him off the ground. The Death Eater dropped him and he fell to the floor, twitching and screaming in agony.

She can tag a restrained person, very impressive.

Tonks trying to un-successfully tag Bellatrix from the high ground

Tonks, still halfway up the tiered seats, was firing spells down at Bellatrix

Moody and Sirius failed to tag Dolohov, infinitely more impressive than Tonks failing to do it.

Tonks getting tagged by Bellatrix

Tonks fall from halfway up the stone steps, her limp form toppling from stone seat to stone seat and Bellatrix, triumphant, running back towards the fray.

Not as impressive as overpowering Moody.

This is where Bellatrix kills Sirius after Dumbldore arrives (the only pair left still duelling)

Harry saw Sirius duck Bellatrix's jet of red light: he was laughing at her. 'Come on, you can do better than that!' he yelled, his voice echoing around the cavernous room. The second jet of light hit him squarely on the chest. The laughter had not quite died from his face, but his eyes widened in shock.

Cheap-shotting someone who was overconfident and failing to do it under normal circumstances. Nigh impressive.

Bellatrix Takes Kingsley out here

Kingsley had run forward to continue Sirius's duel with Bellatrix. There was a loud bang and a yell from behind the dais. Harry saw Kingsley hit the ground yelling in pain:

The only impressive thing throughout the battle.

Here she blocks Dumbledore’s spell….

Bellatrix Lestrange turned tail and ran as Dumbledore whipped around. He aimed a spell at her but she deflected it; she was halfway up the steps now –

She can block one spell. Not impressive at all, just because fodder Death Eaters failed to do so doesn't mean it's impressive.

Here she uses a spell to tip a tank onto harry

The hem of Bellatrix's robes whipped out of sight ahead and they were back in the room where the brains were swimming ...She aimed a curse over her shoulder. The tank rose into the air and tipped. Harry was deluged in the foul-smelling potion within

Unimpressive.

Here Bellatrix is hit with a spell by Harry (the only time she is hit), but shows good resistance due to its lack of potency

Hatred rose in Harry such as he had never known before; he flung himself out from behind the fountain and bellowed, 'Crucio!' Bellatrix screamed: the spell had knocked her off her feet, but she did not writhe and shriek with pain as Neville had--she was already back on her feet, breathless, no longer laughing.

Getting tagged by Harry one on one with no circumstances is a bad feat for her.

Bellatrix blocking Harrys Stun showing her reaction speed…

'Stupefy!' yelled Harry. He had edged right around to where the goblin stood beaming up at the now headless wizard and taken aim at her back as she peered around the fountain. She reacted so fast he barely had time to duck.'Protego!'The jet of red light, his own Stunning Spell, bounced back at him. Harry scrambled back behind the fountain and one of the goblin's ears went flying across the room.

Lol, you show this but not Dolohov easily reacting to Sirius. You are determined to lowball.

Total

Dolohov – 6 = hits given, 3=Cheap shots taken.

Bellatrix – 3 = hits given, 1 = hits taken

All of Bellatrix spells are more powerfull than his, and her reflexes smash him out of the water. Although he is fairly powerful, he is no where near her at all. And she is Voldermotes best lieutenant, not due to loyalty and bloodline, but mainly becuase of POWER. She even leads this group of death eaters into battle before the Dark lord arrives.

No it's because of bloodline/loyalty. That's why Malfoy was more valued than her, why he commanded Voldemort's troops.

Bellatrix stomps.

Comparing their feats.

Dolohov nearly beating the trio three on one in DH's>Bellatrix stalemating a far less impressive trio [Luna, Hermione, Ginny]

Dolohov gaining the upper-hand over Sirius>Bellatrix stalemating Sirius.

Dolohov beating Moody>Bellatrix beating Kingsley.

Dolohov beating Harry, Neville and Hermione>Bellatrix beating four fodder Snatchers.

Dolohov beating Lupin>Bellatrix beating Tonks

Dolohov is more impressive, comparing feats and by scaling, comparing hits is broken logic, feats/scaling/statements are all that matters.