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#1 Posted by ArkhamAsylum3 (3920 posts) - - Show Bio

Rules

  • In Character
  • Book feats only
  • Victory by Death

Location

  • Cafe where Harry, Ron and Hermione fought Dolohov
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#2 Posted by ArkhamAsylum3 (3920 posts) - - Show Bio

Bump.

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#3 Posted by deactivated-5bf470b432518 (5801 posts) - - Show Bio

Dolohov takes. Much better feats against multiple opponents and his fight against Sirius alone is far better than any of Bellatrix's one on one duels.

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#4 Posted by ANTHP2000 (27694 posts) - - Show Bio

Bellatrix, obviously. No matter which way you swing it.

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#5 Posted by dark-sith123 (5033 posts) - - Show Bio

Their performances against Sirius were quite similar. Sure, Bellatrix killed Black, but because he was tooling with her and wasn't expecting her to be so deadly.

Bellatrix wiped the floor with Tonks and Kingsley, which is extremely impressive, but then again, Dolohov's performance against Harry, Ron and Hermione comes across as more impressive than Lestrange's against Hermione/Ginny/Luna.

I'll wait for a concrete argument to be made either way. Regardless of who wins, it's a great fight.

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#6 Posted by deactivated-5bf470b432518 (5801 posts) - - Show Bio

Their performances against Sirius were quite similar. Sure, Bellatrix killed Black, but because he was tooling with her and wasn't expecting her to be so deadly.

I disagree. Sirius very clearly would have won if it wasn't for his overconfidence. He faced Dolohov in a non overconfident fashion and barely achieved a stalemate with Harry having to step in to belp him.

Bellatrix wiped the floor with Tonks and Kingsley, which is extremely impressive, but then again, Dolohov's performance against Harry, Ron and Hermione comes across as more impressive than Lestrange's against Hermione/Ginny/Luna.

Agreed.

I'll wait for a concrete argument to be made either way. Regardless of who wins, it's a great fight.

Indeed it's close but Dolohov takes.

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#7 Posted by deactivated-5bf470b432518 (5801 posts) - - Show Bio

Bellatrix, obviously. No matter which way you swing it.

Dolohov has better feats.

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#8 Posted by ANTHP2000 (27694 posts) - - Show Bio

Like I've said before, 3 categories should be considered in magical duels;

  • Power: Bellatrix has the single best raw power showing besides the big 3 (and maybe Amelia Bones depending on how you take the statement of her holding her own against Voldemort), in downright blocking a spell from Dumbledore, the most powerful wizard in history. Furthermore, she made sort work of Kingsley, the same guy that overpowered groups of Death Eaters attacking him at once.
  • Speed: Bellatrix took out 4 snatchers, the guys that apprehended the main trio, in mere seconds, she almost killed Ginny in a 3v1 with Hermione and Luna backing her up, and she killed a fox surprising her before it could even attempt to flee.
  • Magical Ability / Knowledge / Versatality: Bellatrix stated directly to Harry that she's trained under Voldemort specifically, and is considered a master of the Dark Arts with spells of 'such power' that Harry couldn't even imagine, and has shown the ability to cast curses non-verbally.

Not sure what else there is to say here. Lestrange has always been portrayed as the top Death Eater, and it shows in her duels. Much better feats than Antonin.

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#9 Posted by the_red_viper (12737 posts) - - Show Bio

I'm genuinely baffled at how people actually look for and find feats in "Harry Potter".

Maybe I should re-read the books (in English this time) so I can partake in HP debates. Looks fun.

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#10 Posted by ANTHP2000 (27694 posts) - - Show Bio

@the_red_viper:

We need you here.

Also, what language did you go through the series the first time?

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#11 Posted by the_red_viper (12737 posts) - - Show Bio

@the_red_viper:

We need you here.

Also, what language did you go through the series the first time?

Hebrew, my mother tongue.

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#12 Posted by ANTHP2000 (27694 posts) - - Show Bio

@the_red_viper:

I actually haven't read the entire series in English either, just the featz parts so I can debate and discuss here.

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#13 Posted by dark-sith123 (5033 posts) - - Show Bio

@riddlerfan77:

I disagree. Sirius very clearly would have won if it wasn't for his overconfidence.

They looked pretty even. Sirius' overconfidence led to his defeat, but he wasn't winning prior to it.

Their performances are pretty similar. It's obvious Bellatrix and Dolohov are pretty close.

@anthp2000:

Bellatrix has the single best raw power showing besides the big 3 (and maybe Amelia Bones depending on how you take the statement of her holding her own against Voldemort),

Nah, Amelia's showing was better. All Bellatrix did was not be one-shotted. Amelia gave Voldemort pause in an actual duel.

Furthermore, she made sort work of Kingsley,

Which is arguably better than anything Dolohov has done, though I'd say defeating Moody is somewhat comparable.

Bellatrix took out 4 snatchers, the guys that apprehended the main trio, in mere seconds,

Yeah, sure, when the trio was caught off guard and trapped in a tent.

she almost killed Ginny in a 3v1 with Hermione and Luna backing her up,

Dolohov nearly defeated the main trio on his own, disabling Harry and Ron before ultimately being hit by Hermione. It's more impressive than briefly stalemating Hermione, Ginny and Luna, a far inferior trio.

Much better feats than Antonin.

Her feats are arguably better than Dolohov's, not much better.

It's a pretty close fight, and while Bellatrix obviously might win, it's not the decisive, clear cut win you're making it out to be.

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#14 Edited by Vivec3629 (446 posts) - - Show Bio

@dark-sith123: A bit of context with Bellatrix versus Hermione, Ginny, and Luna is that the book calls out that they were being protected by Harry's sacrifice, similar to Harry' own protection from his mother's. Similar to why Voldemort didn't destroy his own trio in the same battle.

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#15 Posted by dark-sith123 (5033 posts) - - Show Bio

@vivec3629:

Ah, interesting. Can you cite the passage that states this?

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#16 Edited by deactivated-5bf470b432518 (5801 posts) - - Show Bio

Dolohov is better.

He soloed Harry, Neville and Hermione, nearly soloed Harry, Ron and Hermione, stomped Moody, beat Lupin and stalemated Sirius.

Bellatrix was stalemated by a far less impressive trio [Hermione, Ginny, Luna], beat random fodder, beat Kingsley and Tonks. The former is more impressive.

@dark-sith123 He was laughing at her whilst casually dodging her spells. It looked to me like he would have won had he not been overconfident. Stalemating Dolohov also puts him over her.

@the_red_viper HP was my childhood so I basically remember every detail of the books including feats. You probably don't remember them because very few characters throughout the books actually have combat feats.

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#17 Posted by deactivated-5bf470b432518 (5801 posts) - - Show Bio
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#18 Posted by the_red_viper (12737 posts) - - Show Bio

@riddlerfan77:

You probably don't remember them because very few characters throughout the books actually have combat feats.

Nah, that's not it. It's just because I read it as a kid and feats didn't mean anything to me. I was just enjoying the story.

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#19 Edited by Vivec3629 (446 posts) - - Show Bio

@dark-sith123: @riddlerfan77: Ah, I stand corrected, Riddler. I had thought I remembered some text alluding to Bellatrix's spells also not finding purchase against her opponents, but upon re-reading it only calls this out with Voldemort. He couldn't injure his opponents due to the sacrifice, but Bellatrix is unaffected it seems.

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#20 Posted by deactivated-5bf470b432518 (5801 posts) - - Show Bio

@riddlerfan77:

You probably don't remember them because very few characters throughout the books actually have combat feats.

Nah, that's not it. It's just because I read it as a kid and feats didn't mean anything to me. I was just enjoying the story.

HP debating is fun. Admittedly despite HP being my favourite work of fiction it's not my favourite thing to debate for due to lack of combat feats but it's fun nonetheless.

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#21 Posted by ANTHP2000 (27694 posts) - - Show Bio

@dark-sith123: A bit of context with Bellatrix versus Hermione, Ginny, and Luna is that the book calls out that they were being protected by Harry's sacrifice, similar to Harry' own protection from his mother's. Similar to why Voldemort didn't destroy his own trio in the same battle.

Not to mention that she was working with an entirely new wand against the trio.

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#22 Posted by deactivated-5bf470b432518 (5801 posts) - - Show Bio

@vivec3629 said:

@dark-sith123: A bit of context with Bellatrix versus Hermione, Ginny, and Luna is that the book calls out that they were being protected by Harry's sacrifice, similar to Harry' own protection from his mother's. Similar to why Voldemort didn't destroy his own trio in the same battle.

Not to mention that she was working with an entirely new wand against the trio.

Except Hermione had a new wand too so it's really not valid as an excuse.

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#23 Posted by foxerdes (10247 posts) - - Show Bio

Based on their track record I'd be willing to go with Dolohov, but in universe position and statements make me go with Bellatrix.

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#24 Posted by ANTHP2000 (27694 posts) - - Show Bio

@riddlerfan77:

Not really, in a 1v3, the single fighter is at a much larger disadvantage not using their weapon of choice.

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#25 Posted by deactivated-5bf470b432518 (5801 posts) - - Show Bio

@foxerdes said:

Based on their track record I'd be willing to go with Dolohov, but in universe position and statements make me go with Bellatrix.

Feats>statements. Mad Eye is fodder yet everyone hyped him up so this proves my point.

@riddlerfan77:

Not really, in a 1v3, the single fighter is at a much larger disadvantage not using their weapon of choice.

Fair point but it's a handicap not a major disadvantage.

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#26 Posted by ANTHP2000 (27694 posts) - - Show Bio

@dark-sith123:

Not really arguing they aren't on the same tier, that much is clear, but he isn't on that level.

Antonin hasn't done anything to suggest he could defend against Dumbledore's spell, let alone do so right after defeating 2 aurors and Sirius Black. This is rhe most impressive thing about these showings, they were a litteral gauntlet one after the other.

Dolohov's 3v1 isn't better at all. First of, Ron is basically Luna's equivalent in that they're nothing special, Hermione is Hermione and Ginny is at least comparable to Harry by statements and feats regarding her power. Difference is that she was winning while he straight up lost, although being fair to Dolohov, I think he had an outside didadvantage of some kind, though I could be wrong - but Lestrange was too, lacking her original wand.

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#27 Posted by deactivated-5bf470b432518 (5801 posts) - - Show Bio

@dark-sith123:

Not really arguing they aren't on the same tier, that much is clear, but he isn't on that level.

He is.

Antonin hasn't done anything to suggest he could defend against Dumbledore's spell, let alone do so right after defeating 2 aurors and Sirius Black. This is rhe most impressive thing about these showings, they were a litteral gauntlet one after the other.

Dolohov has more impressive feats than Bella and that Dumbledore spell feat is ridiculously overrated, Dumbledore isn't infallible.

Dolohov's 3v1 isn't better at all. First of, Ron is basically Luna's equivalent in that they're nothing special, Hermione is Hermione and Ginny is at least comparable to Harry by statements and feats regarding her power. Difference is that she was winning while he straight up lost, although being fair to Dolohov, I think he had an outside didadvantage of some kind, though I could be wrong - but Lestrange was too, lacking her original wand.

Ron has much better feats than Luna. The two aren't comparable at all. Ron's nothing special but he's better than she is. Hermione does indeed equal Hermione. Harry has much better feats than Ginny.

Harry's feats.

Beating Jugson.

Blocking Dolohov's purple fire spell.

Defeating Malfoy [Father and son]

Holding off Bellatrix one on one.

Subduing Rowle.

Beating Yaxely.

Ginny's feats.

Stalemating Bellatrix with help.

Beating Malfoy.

Dolohov was fighting an invisible Harry and Hermione beat him via surprise. His fight he had disadvantages just like Bella except he nearly triumphed, Bella stalemated and the trio is less impressive.

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#28 Posted by ArkhamAsylum3 (3920 posts) - - Show Bio

@anthp2000 said:

@dark-sith123:

Not really arguing they aren't on the same tier, that much is clear, but he isn't on that level.

He is.

Antonin hasn't done anything to suggest he could defend against Dumbledore's spell, let alone do so right after defeating 2 aurors and Sirius Black. This is rhe most impressive thing about these showings, they were a litteral gauntlet one after the other.

Dolohov has more impressive feats than Bella and that Dumbledore spell feat is ridiculously overrated, Dumbledore isn't infallible.

Dolohov's 3v1 isn't better at all. First of, Ron is basically Luna's equivalent in that they're nothing special, Hermione is Hermione and Ginny is at least comparable to Harry by statements and feats regarding her power. Difference is that she was winning while he straight up lost, although being fair to Dolohov, I think he had an outside didadvantage of some kind, though I could be wrong - but Lestrange was too, lacking her original wand.

Ron has much better feats than Luna. The two aren't comparable at all. Ron's nothing special but he's better than she is. Hermione does indeed equal Hermione. Harry has much better feats than Ginny.

Hermione does not equal Hermione. The Hermione in the Bellatrix duel didn't have her real wand.

Harry's feats.

Beating Jugson.

Took him by surprise when he was about to kill Hermione. Wasn't a 1v1 win.

Blocking Dolohov's purple fire spell.

This is commendable.

Defeating Malfoy [Father and son]

He never defeated Lucius.

Holding off Bellatrix one on one.

By taking cover and not really fighting her at all.

Subduing Rowle.

While under the invisibility cloak. He took him by surprise.

Beating Yaxely.

Both times he took him by surprise.

Ginny's feats.

Stalemating Bellatrix with help.

Beating Malfoy.

Dolohov was fighting an invisible Harry and Hermione beat him via surprise. His fight he had disadvantages just like Bella except he nearly triumphed, Bella stalemated and the trio is less impressive.

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#29 Posted by ANTHP2000 (27694 posts) - - Show Bio

@riddlerfan77:

Dolohov has more impressive feats than Bella and that Dumbledore spell feat is ridiculously overrated, Dumbledore isn't infallible.

Post 'em; Bellatrix defeated Tonks, defeated Kingsley, defeated Sirius and proceeded to defend against Dumbledore in the very same sequence with no breaks - what has he done that's better?

Dumbledore is the most powerful wizard in history, take it as you will.

Ron has much better feats than Luna. The two aren't comparable at all. Ron's nothing special but he's better than she is. Hermione does indeed equal Hermione. Harry has much better feats than Ginny.

Has Ron even done anything impressive? I genuinely recall nothing from him, as much as with Luna.

Ginny was portrayed as one of the best students in Hogwarts, and has faught wizards that Harry has also faught, please explain why he's much better.

Harry got stomped by Bellatrix 1 on 1. And I think you're still missing the part where Bellatrix was arguably winning against the trio, with a newly acquired wand, while Antonin lost his own duel.


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#30 Posted by deactivated-5bf470b432518 (5801 posts) - - Show Bio

@riddlerfan77:

Dolohov has more impressive feats than Bella and that Dumbledore spell feat is ridiculously overrated, Dumbledore isn't infallible.

Post 'em; Bellatrix defeated Tonks, defeated Kingsley, defeated Sirius and proceeded to defend against Dumbledore in the very same sequence with no breaks - what has he done that's better?

Being injured and fatigued after going through a duel with Harry, Neville and Hermione [He stomped them until he got surprise attacked] and the proceeding to stomp Moody and stalemate Sirius. Bellatrix would have lost if it wasn't for Sirius being overconfident.

I've got quotes, I'll post them.

Dumbledore is the most powerful wizard in history, take it as you will.

Yes but he's not infallible.

Ron has much better feats than Luna. The two aren't comparable at all. Ron's nothing special but he's better than she is. Hermione does indeed equal Hermione. Harry has much better feats than Ginny.

Has Ron even done anything impressive? I genuinely recall nothing from him, as much as with Luna.

Escaping from a group of snatchers solo.

Ginny was portrayed as one of the best students in Hogwarts, and has faught wizards that Harry has also faught, please explain why he's much better.

I literally listed feats above. Harry is far more impressive.

Harry got stomped by Bellatrix 1 on 1. And I think you're still missing the part where Bellatrix was arguably winning against the trio, with a newly acquired wand, while Antonin lost his own duel.

Both had disadvantages. And no you're wrong it say's they were equal to her, she did not have the upper hand. Bellatrix was completely stalemated, Dolohov nearly won.

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#31 Edited by ANTHP2000 (27694 posts) - - Show Bio

@riddlerfan77:

Being injured and fatigued after going through a duel with Harry, Neville and Hermione [He stomped them until he got surprise attacked] and the proceeding to stomp Moody and stalemate Sirius. Bellatrix would have lost if it wasn't for Sirius being overconfident.

  1. Neville couldn't run properly in OOTP, that's how incompetent he is.
  2. Harry came at him afterwards.
  3. Moody doesn't have feats.
  4. Bellatrix would have lost by what measurement? If we can conclude anything, it's that she would have won, because (a) she did and (b) she has far better feats.

So, in conclusion;

  • Dolohov fights Nevile, a completely incompetent student, Bellatrix fights an auror
  • Dolohov fights Harry 1 on 1, Hermione was not a part of that duel, Bellatrix fights another auror, the best one alive
  • Dolhov stalemates Sirius, Bellatrix stalemates him and abuses an opening to defeat him
  • Dolohov does nothing, Bellatrix blocks a spell from Albus

Antonin's is a totally more impressive sequence right?

Yes but he's not infallible.

He's good enough that Dolohov has no feats of power to suggest he can defend against one spell from him. If you do not even realise how powerful Albus is supposed to be, I don't know what to say.

I literally listed feats above. Harry is far more impressive.

And once again, they have faught similar opponents and performed well. I have no idea how you can conclude that he's 'far more impressive'.

Both had disadvantages. And no you're wrong it say's they were equal to her, she did not have the upper hand. Bellatrix was completely stalemated, Dolohov nearly won.

Bellatrix almost killed Ginny, that's arguably winning.

Sorry to break it to you and your favourite wizard but Dolohov did not 'nearly win' - he lost - cut and dry.

I won't reply to further posts cause I feel like it was discussed enough. Other than sheer favoritism, I don't see any reason to back Dolohov against Bellatrix.

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#32 Posted by deactivated-5bf470b432518 (5801 posts) - - Show Bio

@riddlerfan77:

Being injured and fatigued after going through a duel with Harry, Neville and Hermione [He stomped them until he got surprise attacked] and the proceeding to stomp Moody and stalemate Sirius. Bellatrix would have lost if it wasn't for Sirius being overconfident.

  1. Neville couldn't run properly in OOTP, that's how incompetent he is.
  2. Quote to prove this.
  3. Harry came at him afterwards.
  4. What are you talking about?
  5. Moody doesn't have feats.
  6. Tonks doesn't have feats.
  7. Bellatrix would have lost by what measurement? If we can conclude anything, it's that she would have won, because (a) she did and (b) she has far better feats.
  8. A] Bellatrix only won due to his overconfidence. Before that he was easily avoiding her spells whilst laughing at her.
  9. B] Stalemating Dolohov is better than anything she ever did.

So, in conclusion;

  • Dolohov fights Nevile, a completely incompetent student, Dolohov fights a veteran auror, Bellatrix fights an average auror.
  • Dolohov fights Harry 1 on 1, Hermione was not a part of that duel
  • No he fights all three simultaneously.
  • Dolhov stalemates Sirius, Bellatrix stalemates him whilst he is overconfident and abuses an opening to defeat him
  • Dolohov does nothing, Bellatrix blocks a spell from Albus
  • Glad we're on the same page.

Antonin's is a totally more impressive sequence right?

Yes but he's not infallible.

He's good enough that Dolohov has no feats of power to suggest he can defend against one spell from him. If you do not evenr ealise how powerful Albus is supposed to be, I don't know what to say.

Besides you know, having better feats than Bellatrix.

I literally listed feats above. Harry is far more impressive.

And once again, they have faught similar opponents and performed well. I have no idea how you can conclude that he's 'fair more impressive'.

I gave about seven feats for Harry. There are only about two to three for Ginny and you've yet to provide more. She did nothing except stalemate amicus, fight Bellatrix with help and beat Draco. Harry see above post, has much better feats.

Both had disadvantages. And no you're wrong it say's they were equal to her, she did not have the upper hand. Bellatrix was completely stalemated, Dolohov nearly won.

Bellatrix almost killed Ginny, that's arguably winning.

The spell didn't find its mark so invalid. It doesn't matter how close it was just if it did or not.

Sorry to break it to you and your favourite wizard but Dolohov did not 'nearly win' - he lost - cut and dry.

So taking out 2 out of 3 isn't nearly winning. Also I literally give no craps about Dolohov, he had no character, I'm just backing him due to feats.

Do you know who my favourite Harry Potter characters are?

In no particular order.

Snape

Fred and George [I don't wank on the battle forums]

Harry [I don't wank on the battle forums]

Crouch Junior [I don't wank on the battle forums]

Lupin [I don't wank on the battle forums]

Ginny [I don't wank on the battle forums]

Sirius

I won't reply to further posts cause I feel like it was discussed enough. Other than sheer favoritism, I don't see any reason to back Dolohov against Bellatrix.

I was prepared. Dolohov's feats.

“Well done, Ha —” But the Death Eater Hermione had just struck dumb made a sudden slashing movement with his wand from which flew a streak of what looked like purple flame. It passed right across Hermione’s chest; she gave a tiny “oh!” as though of surprise and then crumpled onto the floor where she lay motionless. “HERMIONE!” Harry fell to his knees beside her as Neville crawled rapidly toward her from under the desk, his wand held up in front of him. The Death Eater kicked out hard at Neville’s head as he emerged — his foot broke Neville’s wand in two and connected with his face — Neville gave a howl of pain and recoiled, clutching his mouth and nose. Harry twisted around, his own wand held high, and saw that the Death Eater had ripped off his mask and was pointing his wand directly at Harry, who recognized the long, pale, twisted face from the Daily Prophet: Antonin Dolohov, the wizard who had murdered the Prewetts.

Soloing Harry, Hermione and Neville.

Then Harry’s foot made contact with something round and hard and he slipped — for a moment he thought he had dropped the prophecy, then saw Moody’s magic eye spinning away across the floor. Its owner was lying on his side, bleeding from the head, and his attacker was now bearing down upon Harry and Neville: Dolohov, his long pale face twisted with glee.

Beating Moody

Dolohov raised his wand again. “Accio Proph —” Sirius hurtled out of nowhere, rammed Dolohov with his shoulder, and sent him flying out of the way. The prophecy had again flown to the tips of Harry’s fingers but he had managed to cling to it. Now Sirius and Dolohov were dueling, their wands flashing like swords, sparks flying from their wand tips — Dolohov drew back his wand to make the same slashing movement he had used on Harry and Hermione. Springing up, Harry yelled, “Petrificus Totalus!” Once again, Dolohov’s arms and legs snapped together and he keeled over backward, landing with a crash on his back.

Stalemating Sirius.

Doing this back to back is better than beating Tonks [Less impressive than beating Moody], failing to beat Sirius without him being overconfident [Less impressive than stalemating a non overconfident Sirius], beating Kingsley [Roughly equal to his, Harry, Neville, Hermione feat].

Also this is more impressive than anything Bellatrix did

Dolohov raised his wand again. “Accio Proph —” Sirius hurtled out of nowhere, rammed Dolohov with his shoulder, and sent him flying out of the way. The prophecy had again flown to the tips of Harry’s fingers but he had managed to cling to it. Now Sirius and Dolohov were dueling, their wands flashing like swords, sparks flying from their wand tips — Dolohov drew back his wand to make the same slashing movement he had used on Harry and Hermione. Springing up, Harry yelled, “Petrificus Totalus!” Once again, Dolohov’s arms and legs snapped together and he keeled over backward, landing with a crash on his back.

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#33 Edited by ArkhamAsylum3 (3920 posts) - - Show Bio

@anthp2000 said:

@riddlerfan77:

Being injured and fatigued after going through a duel with Harry, Neville and Hermione [He stomped them until he got surprise attacked] and the proceeding to stomp Moody and stalemate Sirius. Bellatrix would have lost if it wasn't for Sirius being overconfident.

  1. Neville couldn't run properly in OOTP, that's how incompetent he is.

Quote for this.

  1. Harry came at him afterwards.

Taking him by surprise because he was distracted by Rabastan. He later wrecks Harry.

  1. Moody doesn't have feats.

He gave Barty Crouch Jr a fight who has impressive feats of his own.

  1. Bellatrix would have lost by what measurement? If we can conclude anything, it's that she would have won, because (a) she did and (b) she has far better feats.

I explain this below.

So, in conclusion;

  • Dolohov fights Nevile, a completely incompetent student, Bellatrix fights an auror

Neville may be incompetent but he had help from Harry and Hermione.

  • Dolohov fights Harry 1 on 1, Hermione was not a part of that duel, Bellatrix fights another auror, the best one alive

Hermione was. Dolohov hit her with his purple fire spell in case you didn't remember.

  • Dolhov stalemates Sirius, Bellatrix stalemates him and abuses an opening to defeat him

Sirius losing to Bellatrix was cirumstantial. He was stuck in his family's house for months and when he gets out and duels a member of his family he is going to want to mock them. He wouldn't be mocking her though if she'd given him a reason to be concerned which she didn't obviously as he does. Bellatrix obviously wasn't giving him a fight whereas Dolohov gained the upper hand only losing because Harry body bound him.

  • Dolohov does nothing, Bellatrix blocks a spell from Albus

He did do stuff.

Antonin's is a totally more impressive sequence right?

He isn't more impressive but he is certainly on par. You're just lowballing him to make him look bad in comparison to her.

Yes but he's not infallible.

He's good enough that Dolohov has no feats of power to suggest he can defend against one spell from him. If you do not even realise how powerful Albus is supposed to be, I don't know what to say.

He does have feats you're just lowballing the feats you acknowledge and ignoring his best feat (beating Lupin).

I literally listed feats above. Harry is far more impressive.

And once again, they have faught similar opponents and performed well. I have no idea how you can conclude that he's 'far more impressive'.

He isn't far more impressive but he is more impressive.

Both had disadvantages. And no you're wrong it say's they were equal to her, she did not have the upper hand. Bellatrix was completely stalemated, Dolohov nearly won.

Bellatrix almost killed Ginny, that's arguably winning.

Almost she didn't succeed and even if she did there is still two more opponents. You literally ignore it says they were equal to her.

Sorry to break it to you and your favourite wizard but Dolohov did not 'nearly win' - he lost - cut and dry.

He did. He took out Harry and Ron before only being subdued because Hermione took him by surprise.

I won't reply to further posts cause I feel like it was discussed enough. Other than sheer favoritism, I don't see any reason to back Dolohov against Bellatrix.

I've went over the fact that there are reasons to back Dolohov.

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#34 Posted by foxerdes (10247 posts) - - Show Bio

@riddlerfan77: So that proves my point blah blah blah.

That's when replying to you became pointless.

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#35 Posted by deactivated-5b60e98a8eb99 (11593 posts) - - Show Bio

Is blocking a spell from Dumbledore really all that great? He might be very powerful, but I don't think it's to the point that a decently skilled wizard couldn't make a shield to stop a single spell.

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#36 Posted by ANTHP2000 (27694 posts) - - Show Bio

@jucaslucasa:

I mean, Voldemort was so powerful that once Bellatrix was killed in the second Battle of Hogwarts, he took out 3 proffesors with a single spell.

Given Albus' standing and his demonstrated raw power, I'd say it's extremely impressive.

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#37 Edited by deactivated-5b60e98a8eb99 (11593 posts) - - Show Bio

@anthp2000: Do we know what spell it was? And since Bella was killed, he'd have been very pissed, and prone to launch his more powerful attacks. While Dumbledore was calm, and seemed to want to take everyone alive. Those three were stalemating Riddle for some time as well, so I don't think any random spell would be that powerful.

Say, if it was Harry there instead of Bellatrix, do you think the spell would have gone through his shield and one shot him?

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#38 Posted by ANTHP2000 (27694 posts) - - Show Bio

@anthp2000: Do we know what spell it was? And since Bella was killed, he'd have been very pissed, and prone to launch his more powerful attacks. While Dumbledore was calm, and seemed to want to take everyone alive. Those three were stalemating Riddle for some time as well, so I don't think any random spell would be that powerful.

Say, if it was Harry there instead of Bellatrix, do you think the spell would have gone through his shield and one shot him?

That's fair, but it's worth noting that Albus is still more powerful than Tom.

Harry certainly wouldn't replicate this. Adult wzards are trickier, and Dolohov is one of them, which makes it arguable - but I don't see him, or most, doing it. Albus casually took out the entire horde of remaining death eaters in the same scene. And in his duel with Voldemort immediately afterwards, they were pulling off immense scale and force with their spells.

Again, what I find most impressive in Bellatrix's sequence is that she did that after defeating 3 excellent duellers one by one.

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#39 Posted by decaf_wizard (17004 posts) - - Show Bio

Bellatrix should stomp tbh......plus she has statements as being the foremost death eater

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#40 Posted by dark-sith123 (5033 posts) - - Show Bio

Bellatrix stomps?

Sheesh. I have seen a lot of Bellatrix wank on the Vine- far more so than for any other character- but this is just on a whole other level.

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#41 Posted by DarthFallax (1638 posts) - - Show Bio
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#42 Edited by decaf_wizard (17004 posts) - - Show Bio

@dark-sith123 said:

Bellatrix stomps?

Sheesh. I have seen a lot of Bellatrix wank on the Vine- far more so than for any other character- but this is just on a whole other level.

What single feat does Dolohov have to suggest he could win here? He has one semi impressive feat, dueling 5th year Harry, Hermione and Neville under a silencing charm. He beat Lupin offscreen, and got dunked on by Flitwick

Comparatively, in a similar situation with a wand she didn't have the allegiance of, Bella was winning against Luna, Hermione and Ginny combined. She was also stated to be the foremost of the Death Eaters

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#43 Posted by dark-sith123 (5033 posts) - - Show Bio

@decaf_wizard:

Dolohov dueled and nearly defeated the main trio in Deathly Hallows. Sure, he was subdued, but he managed to take Harry and Ron out of the fight.

That's more than enough to suggest he won't be stomped.

Beating Lupin is also an impressive feat- more impressive than beating Nymphadora- and Flitwick was a dueling champion, not sure how that's detrimental for Antonin.

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#44 Edited by decaf_wizard (17004 posts) - - Show Bio

@dark-sith123 said:

@decaf_wizard:

Dolohov dueled and nearly defeated the main trio in Deathly Hallows. Sure, he was subdued, but he managed to take Harry and Ron out of the fight.

LMAO. Rowle, who was also around Tonks level duelist was in that duel as well, and they both surprised each-other and were in cramped quarters. Thats nowhere near stalemating them in an actual duel

Nice highballing attempt.

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#45 Posted by HitTheAssasin (8219 posts) - - Show Bio

Bellatrix. She was clearly implied to be the best Death Eater.

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#46 Posted by ANTHP2000 (27694 posts) - - Show Bio

Even ignoring Lestrange's clearly superior feats, there's a reason Rowling chose her to be the last Death Eater standing, fighting 3 opponents "like her master".

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#47 Posted by dark-sith123 (5033 posts) - - Show Bio

@decaf_wizard:

Rowle was quickly subdued. When Dolohov incapacitated Harry and Ron, he was alone. It's still a valid 1v3 feat, better than being matched by Hermione, Ginny and Luna. And yes, it's a near stalemate, given he was alone against three and disabled two of the three.

Also, you're not really in the right to say I highball when you just said Bella stomps, which is ridiculous.

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#48 Posted by dark-sith123 (5033 posts) - - Show Bio

@anthp2000:

Bellatrix was fighting three teenagers, with one of them being featless (Luna) and only one being "good" (Hermione). Dolohov was fighting an accomplished professor and Dueling Champion. That doesn't really prove Bella's superiority. Voldemort was also facing an infinitely tougher trio.

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#49 Edited by ANTHP2000 (27694 posts) - - Show Bio

@dark-sith123 said:

@anthp2000:

Bellatrix was fighting three teenagers, with one of them being featless (Luna) and only one being "good" (Hermione). Dolohov was fighting an accomplished professor and Dueling Champion. That doesn't really prove Bella's superiority. Voldemort was also facing an infinitely tougher trio.

  • Lupin is featless.
  • Ginny is good for a student.
  • It's been well-established that fighting 3 on 1 is tough for wizards, let alone doing it with a wand newly acquired.
  • Flitwick killed Dolohov.

I speciafically said that: even ignoring Bellatrix's superior showings, particularly her sequence in OOTP, and looking at them on-paper, Rowling chose to compare her to Voldemort as the last Death Eater standing in battle, for a reason.

She's litteraly Antonin's superior no matter which way you swing it. They are on the same tier however.

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#50 Posted by dark-sith123 (5033 posts) - - Show Bio

@anthp2000:

I wasn't referring to Lupin, I was referring to Flitwick who is an accomplished professor as well as a duelling champion.

Yes, Ginny is above average but not anything over the top, and fighting Flitwick is still tougher than dueling three teenagers, with one being incompetent and only one being "good" compared to other adult duelists.

I know Flitwick defeated Dolohov, but what I was saying is: Bellatrix survived for longer than Dolohov because she had an easier fight. Bellatrix being the last one standing doesn't necessarily mean she's better than Dolohov.

I'm not saying she isn't better, though I'm not fully sure which one of these would beat the other. Probably Bellatrix, but I need more convincing.