You dbs fans firsts arguements when it comes to a Naruto vs goku fights are "Goku is faster, naruto can't react to him" and "Goku is stronger, naruto can't tank a punch from him".
Why don't you use this logic right now? Hades, is wayy faster and Stronger than Beerus, and also, he has a lot of hax techniques, and his attacks bypass durability and delete the five senses of his ennemies.
You dbs fans firsts arguements when it comes to a Naruto vs goku fight are "Goku is faster, naruto can't react to him" and "Goku is stronger, naruto can't tank a punch from him".
Why don't you use this logic right now? Hades, is wayy faster and Stronger than Beerus, and also, he has a lot of hax techniques, and his attacks bypass durability and delete the five senses of his ennemies.
As a dbs fan who just did researsh on hades he stomps
I thought some people knew about SS, but I can see that they are just charlatans,
since when is Overture Canon ?, Apollo is above Hades according to Athena in that movie, and he did not eliminate the universe of a word haha, that is false he only deleted the mind of the people,
SS fanboy stop deceiving those who do not know SS, but we have seen both manga and Anime can not deceive us.
Beeurs is UB since he receives PS from Kefla. creating a universe does not make you UB, surely Universal lvl but not UB, why? because nobody knows how much it took him to do it.
You dbs fans firsts arguements when it comes to a Naruto vs goku fights are "Goku is faster, naruto can't react to him" and "Goku is stronger, naruto can't tank a punch from him".
Why don't you use this logic right now? Hades, is wayy faster and Stronger than Beerus, and also, he has a lot of hax techniques, and his attacks bypass durability and delete the five senses of his ennemies.
hahaha, its funny, Hades does not have any technique superior to Hakai.
I thought some people knew about SS, but I can see that they are just charlatans,
since when is Overture Canon ?, Apollo is above Hades according to Athena in that movie, and he did not eliminate the universe of a word haha, that is false he only deleted the mind of the people,
SS fanboy stop deceiving those who do not know SS, but we have seen both manga and Anime can not deceive us.
Beeurs is UB since he receives PS from Kefla. creating a universe does not make you UB, surely Universal lvl but not UB, why? because nobody knows how much it took him to do it.
Wait... If Beerus can scale to a statement of Kefla saying what she "feels like she could do", why exactly can't Hades scale from Shion, who is also said to be capable of destroying and reshaping the universe:
Or how about the other instances where Gold Knights dish out universal destructive/creation feats?
Don't forget, no one in DBS barring Omni-King has universe destroying feats. They all rely on statements, so if you're going to accept those statements from DB characters, Saint Seiya characters should get the same treatment out of fairness to avoid double standards. And going by feats, much weaker Saint Seiya characters have destroyed dimensions which were initially confused as windows to the universe on panel and shown to house multiple stars:
Aries Mu destroys Lapetus' dimension in a few seconds tops--the dimension was initially confused as a window to the universe by Leo Aioria and shown to house a multitude of stars:
So even going by scaling, Hades is still superior to Beerus in terms of destructive output, not that creating and constantly maintaining multiple universes and collapsing them on your deathbed doesn't require above universal energy output.
I thought some people knew about SS, but I can see that they are just charlatans,
since when is Overture Canon ?, Apollo is above Hades according to Athena in that movie, and he did not eliminate the universe of a word haha, that is false he only deleted the mind of the people,
SS fanboy stop deceiving those who do not know SS, but we have seen both manga and Anime can not deceive us.
Beeurs is UB since he receives PS from Kefla. creating a universe does not make you UB, surely Universal lvl but not UB, why? because nobody knows how much it took him to do it.
Wait... If Beerus can scale to a statement of Kefla saying what she "feels like she could do", why exactly can't Hades scale from Shion, who is also said to be capable of destroying and reshaping the universe:
Or how about the other instances where Gold Knights dish out universal destructive/creation feats?
Don't forget, no one in DBS barring Omni-King has universe destroying feats. They all rely on statements, so if you're going to accept those statements from DB characters, Saint Seiya characters should get the same treatment out of fairness to avoid double standards. And going by feats, much weaker Saint Seiya characters have destroyed dimensions which were initially confused as windows to the universe on panel and shown to house multiple stars:
Aries Mu destroys Lapetus' dimension in a few seconds tops--the dimension was initially confused as a window to the universe by Leo Aioria and shown to house a multitude of stars:
So even going by scaling, Hades is still superior to Beerus in terms of destructive output, not that creating and constantly maintaining multiple universes and collapsing them on your deathbed doesn't require above universal energy output.
I told you the other day the concept of the SS universe is variable, just having stars or galaxies, that is an ecosystem, and again using Ep.G to argue, it is very silly since the power of many characters contradicts the classic manga , it is as canon as SoG. Shion is inferior to Saga according to the Taizen, and the strongest attack of Saga is GE<<<<<< AE, your conclusion is not valid, there is no PS there that you can use. You can not use Zeno Sama as a reference, he does not destroy the universes, he erases them.
I told you the other day the concept of the SS universe is variable
Yeah, and you neglected to provide any logical reasoning to support the assertion of "Saint Seiya universe =/= real universe". The fact of the matter is, trustworthy characters who have no reason to lie, and even less reason to brag, stated that the power of his ultimate technique felt as though it could destroy and reshape the universe. They said nothing about a mini universe, which in Saint Seiya, only translates to one's Cosmo.
just having stars or galaxies, that is an ecosystem
I never claimed Mu's feat equates to destroying our own universe. But destroying numerous stars or galaxies on panel is >>>> any feat from Beerus by a long shot.
, and again using Ep.G to argue, it is very silly since the power of many characters contradicts the classic manga , it is as canon as SoG.
This is patently false. Soul of Gold is its own original anime that has no relation to Kurumada's original story, whereas Episode G and Episode G: Assasin serves as a canon prequel to classic manga. Krurmada himself has also revealed that they both serve as a conductive environment to the materialization he's already imagined, much like George Lucas did with Star Wars Episode I. It's also been revealed a long time ago that he is directly involved with Episode G. The argument pertaining to their canonicity has been resolved years ago.
And you do realize Next Dimension, which is written by Kuramada and is also undoubtedly a canon sequel to the main story has also shown universal feats from Gold Knights, right?
If you want to argue contradictions while debating for DBS of all things, you're certainly free to do so, but I can easily point out numerous power scaling inconsistencies and contradictions within the anime alone if we choose to go that route.
Shion is inferior to Saga according to the Taizen, and the strongest attack of Saga is GE<<<<<< AE, your conclusion is not valid, there is no PS there that you can use. You can not use Zeno Sama as a reference, he does not destroy the universes, he erases them.
Can you show me the page from the Taizen that states Shion is inferior to Saga? I can't find any scan that states this. As far as Athena's Exclamation goes, you do realize Saga survived taking on the brunt force of 2 of them all while being absolutely drained of stamina and fighting on his last leg from repeated battles:
It was also mentioned by Mu that 2 Athena Exclamations colliding wouldn't merely equal twice that of the force of a single Athena Exclamation. He blatantly states that it's bound to multiply exponentially.
Mu creating pocket universes= irrelevant
Mu creating pocket universes that consist of space-time and matter and telekenetically pulling matter from said universe to attack Iapetos' giant = a much better feat than anything Beerus has shown or can scale to.
@thedarkpaladin: Saint Seiya is an always will be overestimated when it comes to power. They are no where near as powerful as you've are trying to let on. You will ask for it to be debunked when it already has been time and time again. Even at this point. The guys on the VS. Battle Wiki know their place. The hardcore fans just don't
Saint Seiya is an always will be overestimated when it comes to power.
It's difficult to take this seriously when it comes form a user who's been known to overrate DB characters on a consistent basis. Weren't you the same guy who got called out for trying to 'debunk' Dark Schneider being above Beerus because you thought his abilities were overrated, but it turned out you didn't actually know anything about the series? Why do I have a feeling that's probably the case here?
They are no where near as powerful as you've are trying to let on.
This doesn't constitute a debunk to any of the feats/statements I've already posted, though. If you truly know your Saint Seiya, please demonstrate why they're not that powerful.
You will ask for it to be debunked when it already has been time and time again.
Irrelevant. Anyone can attempt to debunk a series with deceitful intent by trying to mislead ignorant readers, but that doesn't tend to go well when users with actual knowledge address their arguments.
I can easily point you to numerous DB debunking threads made with the sole purpose to lowball if you wish.
Even at this point. The guys on the VS. Battle Wiki know their place.
Maybe you're misinterpreting what your read? The guys on VS. Battle Wiki have most Seiya characters rated higher than DB characters. Hell, Seiya alone is ranked above anyone whose name isn't Omni-King, and Seiya was getting fodderized by Hades even in his astral form.
The hardcore fans just don't
I'd love to see a hardcore DB fan like yourself back up these assertions. Sadly, that's not going to happen, as we both know you lack knowledge on the series to debunk anything.
@thedarkpaladin: "I'd love to see a hardcore DB fan like yourself back up these assertions"
It has already been done more times than I can count on my hands. You are not going to bait me into wasting my time on debunking something that has already been debunked. Been debunked by people a whole lot more knowledgeable than me as well.
@thedarkpaladin: "I'd love to see a hardcore DB fan like yourself back up these assertions"
It has already been done more times than I can count on my hands. You are not going to bait me into wasting my time on debunking something that has already been debunked. Been debunked by people a whole lot more knowledgeable than me as well.
If this is the only response I get to the post I layed out, I'll accept this as nothing but unsubstantiated BS from yet another DBS fan who's just upset at seeing their favorite characters lose fictional battles online.
We both know you've never read so much as a volume of Saint Seiya in your entire life, so any 'debunk' thread you link me to won't hold any weight, since you have no way of verifying the legitimacy of their arguments anymore than you do my own.
Referencing VS Battles community was yet another mistake, since not only do they widely consider any relevant SS character to be more than capable of defeating DBS top tiers due to the disparity in speed and the latter's overall lack of hax resistance, but if I remember correctly, they outright banned SS vs DBS battles due to the toxicity of the DB fans who (surprise) knew nothing about Saint Seiya and argued out of ignorance.
You dbs fans firsts arguements when it comes to a Naruto vs goku fights are "Goku is faster, naruto can't react to him" and "Goku is stronger, naruto can't tank a punch from him".
Why don't you use this logic right now? Hades, is wayy faster and Stronger than Beerus, and also, he has a lot of hax techniques, and his attacks bypass durability and delete the five senses of his ennemies.
hahaha, its funny, Hades does not have any technique superior to Hakai.
Obvious troll is obvious. He was erasing people from existence in the lost canvas while being on another dimension, in his weakest reincarnation.
Even so, hakai won't harm hades since non-divine olympians attack won't work on him. You have to possess divine ichor or be helped by somebody who possess it to hurt him otherwise the attack would turn back at you.
I think the Hades fans are trolling us. I just re-watched his arc and Hades got critically hurt by being knocked into a wall, he admitted he was severely damaged. Then Athena one-shotted him by throwing a staff through his chest. The only thing Hades has on Beerus is that he has pretty blue eyes (both the anime & manga emphasized this). Am I missing something here? Seriously, someone go watch the anime and you'll see that Beerus might be able to kick this guy's head off 1 second after the fight starts. I'll admit Hades is a good character and I enjoyed the dialogue, but he is probably even below Mihawk at sword play.
I mean, you guys can hype, but I examine the feats objectively. Beerus has flown through multiple planets, shattering them on impact, with his face...and was uninjured. Hades get's smacked into a wall and admits he is severely hurt...by a human. Hades also panicked when he got a minor cut earlier in the fight and saw some of his own blood. Again, what feats does he have that help him in combat against Beerus? There's no evidence he can take even one hit from Beerus and survive.
This is when someone presents a piece of evidence, but only presents some of it, ignoring critical factors that would cast the evidence in a whole different light, and would not necessarily support the person's conclusion.
Example: "Galactus was beaten by Thor, therefore he can be easily beaten by anyone around or above Thor's level".
What the person in this example fails to mention is that Galactus was starving and severely weakened in this instance, and also that Thor was drawing extra power from Odin to attack him.
And how can you examine objectively when you've been caught in flagrant delicto of wanking dragon ball several times?
First of all GOD cloth Seiya>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Beerus.
Second, you can't hurt hades if you don't have divine ichor (divine olympian blood), which say had at this time, since it was given to him by athena.
Third, no one in the entire dragon ball verse, even if he has divine ichor can inflict this much damage to hades. Super saiyan Vegeta could not lift the arm of Magetta. And Magetta's entire weight is 1000 tons according to beerus, and apparently it's such a big dea that even beerus told goku to stop giving stupid advices to vegeta.
Saint Seiya feats have been called into question many times. It has the most debunk threads out of any verse for a reason. I showed Hades can be seriously hurt by being whacked into a wall. The wall did not even break through completely which means the attack that hit him was not even building level. Hades can have universal creation feats but if he can't tank car-level attacks, he isn't taking hits from someone with multi-planet destroying physical hits and Universal-level destruction capability.
If a Saint Seiya fan can show Hades destroying or threatening to destroy a Universe like Beerus has been shown to do then he can compete a little here, but he sure as heck can't compete physically as shown above. Him dying and his pocket Universe collapsing does not count as a combat feat. His offense consisted of only sword attacks and everything else he did was prophecy-type stuff that has no relevance in an actual battle thread.
The entire argument for Hades is based on hype & assumptions he can actually do a lot more. Any negatives Hades has clearly shown are being ignored such as him panicking from seeing his own blood, his arrogance and his abysmally low durability. He straight up lost to a Goddess of Love. He has no chance against a God of Destruction.
However, things have been moving in the right direction over the last 10 years.
I legitimately don't understand how you think how a single thread, one which you created with quite a few conditions form the looks of it, should constitute proof the series as a whole is underestimated... By that line of thought, wouldn't this thread right here only prove the contrary:
Quite of few people were claiming Goku would stomp there, which is utterly ridiculous. Then there are numerous examples of users trying to prove SSJ3 Goku has dwarf star level striking for punching through King Kai's planet without having an iota of knowledge on physics, and thus, not realizing the feat would require far less energy than even moon busting. This mismatch thread being necro'd out of the blue by a DB troll (Kothoga/Baltoro) also doesn't speak well for DB allegedly being underestimated.
Saint Seiya feats have been called into question many times. It has the most debunk threads out of any verse for a reason. I showed Hades can be seriously hurt by being whacked into a wall. The wall did not even break through completely which means the attack that hit him was not even building level. Hades can have universal creation feats but if he can't tank car-level attacks, he isn't taking hits from someone with multi-planet destroying physical hits and Universal-level destruction capability.
If a Saint Seiya fan can show Hades destroying or threatening to destroy a Universe like Beerus has been shown to do then he can compete a little here, but he sure as heck can't compete physically as shown above. Him dying and his pocket Universe collapsing does not count as a combat feat. His offense consisted of only sword attacks and everything else he did was prophecy-type stuff that has no relevance in an actual battle thread.
The entire argument for Hades is based on hype & assumptions he can actually do a lot more. Any negatives Hades has clearly shown are being ignored such as him panicking from seeing his own blood, his arrogance and his abysmally low durability. He straight up lost to a Goddess of Love. He has no chance against a God of Destruction.
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