Beastmen/Lizardmen/Orc Champs vs Fantasy Champs

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deactivated-5bb7f2e29af78

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Image result for gor-rok warhammerRelated imageRelated image

Image result for Arthas PaladinRelated imageImage result for Aragorn wallpaperImage result for drizzt do'urdenRelated imageImage result for geralt of rivia wallpaperImage result for Anomander Rake wallpaper

Team Warhammer

  • Kroq Gar
  • Gor Rok
  • Chakax
  • Khazrak
  • Brass Bull
  • Grimgor
  • Gorbad

Fantasy Team

  • Arthas
  • Grom Hellscream
  • Aragorn
  • Drizzt
  • Jorunn the Skald-King
  • Geralt
  • Anomander Rake

If you don't know any of these characters ask, and I'll tag you with a link.

Rules

  • No In fighting
  • No BFR
  • Win by destroying the otherside
  • Both are bloodlusted
  • Standard gear for both sides
  • Both have their own leadership under them
  • No prep
  • Random Encounter
  • No outside interference
  • All lore allowed

Round 1 with magic

Round 2 without magic

Environment

Image result for Arena sci fi

Other Fantasy threads

https://comicvine.gamespot.com/forums/battles-7/united-horde-vs-united-skaven-clans-1895616/

https://comicvine.gamespot.com/forums/battles-7/beastmenorcslizardmen-vs-orcsdemonsdaedric-1892696/#js-message-2

https://comicvine.gamespot.com/forums/battles-7/falmerforsworn-vs-troll-kingdoms-1896654/

https://comicvine.gamespot.com/forums/battles-7/troll-empirenight-elf-empire-vs-high-elf-empiredwa-1911463/#23

https://comicvine.gamespot.com/forums/battles-7/mannorothgrom-vs-settrakholek-suneater-1896962/

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Wut

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@solarwavealpha: Paladin Arthas or Death Knight Arthas? Orc Grom or Fel Grom?

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@wut: does it matter? Taurox here! Xd

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Wut

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#5  Edited By Wut

@killerwasp: That chump died to a huntsman. A dude with a bow. This thread is more 'who can hold Grimgor off long enough for the rest of the team to win.'

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@wut: that chump got killed by plot cause his armor was immune to all weapons but his throat Xd. He also killed minotaurs, giants, countless humans, gorebulls daemons and so on he literally did more fighting and killing than all of team 2 combined Xd

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Wut

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@killerwasp: Died. to. a. normal. arrow. to. the. throat. Died like a chummmp.

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@wut: crossbow and it was magically infused arrow so ha! No normal arrow son!

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Redzkz

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@solarwavealpha: @wut: @killerwasp:

This is a stomp. Rake stomp team 1.

For example, this is Raest, when he is using like 1% of his power:

Raest drove his senses down into the ground, seeking what dwelt there. Earth and bedrock, the sluggish molten darkness beneath, down, down to find the sleeping goddess-young as far as the Jaghut Tyrant was concerned. "Shall I wake you?" he whispered. "Not yet. But I shall make you bleed." His right hand closed into a fist.

He speared the goddess with pain, driving a fissure through the bedrock, feeling the gush of her blood, enough to make her stir but not awaken.

The line of hills to the north lifted skyward. Magma sprayed into the air amid a rising pillar of smoke, rock, and ash. The earth shuddered even as the sound of the eruption swept over Raest in a fierce, hot wind. The Jaghut Tyrant smiled.

Why he is using 1% of his power only? Because he was sealed, when entire world turned on him, even his own kind. His kind:

Jaghut were very different in another way-they did not flaunt their power. And many of their efforts in self-defense were...passive. Barriers of ice-glaciers-they swallowed the lands around them, even the seas, swallowed whole continents, making them impassable

These are a normal jaghuts. Raest is one of the Jaghut tyrants and the stronger of all tyrants.

Entire world failed to kill him, only to imprison him:

It should have been an empire to last for millennia, and its day of dying should have been by his own hand, when he at last tired of it. Raest had never imagined that other Jaghut would find his activities abhorrent, that they would risk themselves and their own power on behalf of these short-lived, small-minded Imass. Yet what astonished Raest more than anything else was that when the Jaghut came they came in numbers, in community. A community whose sole purpose of existence was to destroy his empire, to imprison him.

He had been unprepared.

And Anomander Rake is stronger than Raest in his prime.

You need Nagash or Mazdamundi to hope and have a chance against Jaghuts. I mean read Memories of Ice, this is what war with usual Jaghut looks like and that Jaghut never had a proper training!

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@redzkz: nothing team warhammer couldn't handle! Xd

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Wut

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@redzkz:

Raest drove his senses down into the ground, seeking what dwelt there. Earth and bedrock, the sluggish molten darkness beneath, down, down to find the sleeping goddess-young as far as the Jaghut Tyrant was concerned. "Shall I wake you?" he whispered. "Not yet. But I shall make you bleed." His right hand closed into a fist.

He speared the goddess with pain, driving a fissure through the bedrock, feeling the gush of her blood, enough to make her stir but not awaken.

The line of hills to the north lifted skyward. Magma sprayed into the air amid a rising pillar of smoke, rock, and ash. The earth shuddered even as the sound of the eruption swept over Raest in a fierce, hot wind. The Jaghut Tyrant smiled.

It seems like the 'earth shuddering and erupting' was more from the Goddess stirring from making her feel pain then him doing it, himself. Although.. the passage is.. kinda hard.. to tell.. exactly what he is doing and whom this goddess is.

Do you have any quotes that show his power, directly? Or shows Anomander's power, directly?

Although, not sure saying 'hopes of defeating' is fitting considering Slann of Mazdamundi's generation rearranged entire mountain ranges which would mean they were moving entire tectonic plates and kept asteroids from Morrslieb when it was destroyed from hitting the planet. These people don't seem outright stronger then the Slann, which would mean they, as a people, are stronger then the vast majority of warhammer fantasy, but still, I think saying 'in the hopes' is a bit much.

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Redzkz

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@wut said:

@redzkz:

Raest drove his senses down into the ground, seeking what dwelt there. Earth and bedrock, the sluggish molten darkness beneath, down, down to find the sleeping goddess-young as far as the Jaghut Tyrant was concerned. "Shall I wake you?" he whispered. "Not yet. But I shall make you bleed." His right hand closed into a fist.

He speared the goddess with pain, driving a fissure through the bedrock, feeling the gush of her blood, enough to make her stir but not awaken.

The line of hills to the north lifted skyward. Magma sprayed into the air amid a rising pillar of smoke, rock, and ash. The earth shuddered even as the sound of the eruption swept over Raest in a fierce, hot wind. The Jaghut Tyrant smiled.

It seems like the 'earth shuddering and erupting' was more from the Goddess stirring from making her feel pain then him doing it, himself. Although.. the passage is.. kinda hard.. to tell.. exactly what he is doing and whom this goddess is.

Do you have any quotes that show his power, directly? Or shows Anomander's power, directly?

Although, not sure saying 'hopes of defeating' is fitting considering Slann of Mazdamundi's generation rearranged entire mountain ranges which would mean they were moving entire tectonic plates and kept asteroids from Morrslieb when it was destroyed from hitting the planet. These people don't seem outright stronger then the Slann, which would mean they, as a people, are stronger then the vast majority of warhammer fantasy, but still, I think saying 'in the hopes' is a bit much.

"Godness" in this passage means planet on which they are. Reast was just freed from his sealing and walked his way on the plains. He then hits the ground with his fist as a sign of hello to the world. That's what happened.

And this is what a Caladan Brood, once a sparring partner of Anomander Rake can do when he is a bit pissed off:

'Kruppe defies all threats! Kruppe sneers at whatever demonstration bristling warlord would attempt-'

The hammer was suddenly in Brood's hands, a smudged blur as it swung through the air, a downward arc, to strike the earth almost at Kruppe's feet.

The detonation threw horses down, sent Whiskeyjack and the others flying. A thunderous concussion cracked the air. The ground seemed to leap up to meet the Malazan commander, the impact like a fist when he struck, rolled, then tumbled his way down the boulder-strewn slope.

Above him, horses were screaming. A wind, hot, shrieking, shot dust and earth skyward.

The scree of boulders was moving beneath Whiskeyjack, flowing, sliding down into the valley at an ever quickening pace with a rumbling, growing roar. Rocks clanged against his armour, rapped into the helm on his head, leaving him stunned. He caught a flashing glimpse, through a jagged tear in the dustcloud, of the line of hills on the other side the valley. Impossibly, they were rising, fast, the bedrock splitting the grassy hide, loosing gouts of dust, rock-shards and smoke. Then the swarming dust swallowed the world around him. Boulders bounced over him, tumbling. Others struck him solid, painful blows that left him gasping, coughing, choking as he rolled.

Even now, the ground continued to heave beneath the sliding scree. Distant detonations shook the air, trembled through Whiskeyjack's battered bones.

He came to a rest, half buried in gravel and rocks. Blinking, eyes burning, he saw before him the Rhivi scouts — dodging, leaping from the path of bounding boulders as if in some bizarre, deadly game. Beyond, black, steaming bedrock towered, the spine of a new mountain range, still growing, still rising, lifting and tilting the floor of the valley where the Malazan now lay. The sky behind it churned iron-grey with steam and smoke.

Brood still weaker than a Jaghut and shown in third novel, while Rake was stated as being too strong for Jaghut.

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Wut

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@redzkz: "Godness" in this passage means planet on which they are. Reast was just freed from his sealing and walked his way on the plains. He then hits the ground with his fist as a sign of hello to the world. That's what happened.

That was... a.. very, very, very convoluted way to write that passage lol. So made a fissure break out of a nearby hill. Not bad.

And this is what a Caladan Brood, once a sparring partner of Anomander Rake can do when he is a bit pissed off:

'Kruppe defies all threats! Kruppe sneers at whatever demonstration bristling warlord would attempt-'

The hammer was suddenly in Brood's hands, a smudged blur as it swung through the air, a downward arc, to strike the earth almost at Kruppe's feet.

The detonation threw horses down, sent Whiskeyjack and the others flying. A thunderous concussion cracked the air. The ground seemed to leap up to meet the Malazan commander, the impact like a fist when he struck, rolled, then tumbled his way down the boulder-strewn slope.

Above him, horses were screaming. A wind, hot, shrieking, shot dust and earth skyward.

The scree of boulders was moving beneath Whiskeyjack, flowing, sliding down into the valley at an ever quickening pace with a rumbling, growing roar. Rocks clanged against his armour, rapped into the helm on his head, leaving him stunned. He caught a flashing glimpse, through a jagged tear in the dustcloud, of the line of hills on the other side the valley. Impossibly, they were rising, fast, the bedrock splitting the grassy hide, loosing gouts of dust, rock-shards and smoke. Then the swarming dust swallowed the world around him. Boulders bounced over him, tumbling. Others struck him solid, painful blows that left him gasping, coughing, choking as he rolled.

Even now, the ground continued to heave beneath the sliding scree. Distant detonations shook the air, trembled through Whiskeyjack's battered bones.

He came to a rest, half buried in gravel and rocks. Blinking, eyes burning, he saw before him the Rhivi scouts — dodging, leaping from the path of bounding boulders as if in some bizarre, deadly game. Beyond, black, steaming bedrock towered, the spine of a new mountain range, still growing, still rising, lifting and tilting the floor of the valley where the Malazan now lay. The sky behind it churned iron-grey with steam and smoke.

Do.. you not have any feats from Anomander Rake, himself?

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Redzkz

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#14  Edited By Redzkz

@wut said:

@redzkz: "Godness" in this passage means planet on which they are. Reast was just freed from his sealing and walked his way on the plains. He then hits the ground with his fist as a sign of hello to the world. That's what happened.

That was... a.. very, very, very convoluted way to write that passage lol. So made a fissure break out of a nearby hill. Not bad.

And this is what a Caladan Brood, once a sparring partner of Anomander Rake can do when he is a bit pissed off:

'Kruppe defies all threats! Kruppe sneers at whatever demonstration bristling warlord would attempt-'

The hammer was suddenly in Brood's hands, a smudged blur as it swung through the air, a downward arc, to strike the earth almost at Kruppe's feet.

The detonation threw horses down, sent Whiskeyjack and the others flying. A thunderous concussion cracked the air. The ground seemed to leap up to meet the Malazan commander, the impact like a fist when he struck, rolled, then tumbled his way down the boulder-strewn slope.

Above him, horses were screaming. A wind, hot, shrieking, shot dust and earth skyward.

The scree of boulders was moving beneath Whiskeyjack, flowing, sliding down into the valley at an ever quickening pace with a rumbling, growing roar. Rocks clanged against his armour, rapped into the helm on his head, leaving him stunned. He caught a flashing glimpse, through a jagged tear in the dustcloud, of the line of hills on the other side the valley. Impossibly, they were rising, fast, the bedrock splitting the grassy hide, loosing gouts of dust, rock-shards and smoke. Then the swarming dust swallowed the world around him. Boulders bounced over him, tumbling. Others struck him solid, painful blows that left him gasping, coughing, choking as he rolled.

Even now, the ground continued to heave beneath the sliding scree. Distant detonations shook the air, trembled through Whiskeyjack's battered bones.

He came to a rest, half buried in gravel and rocks. Blinking, eyes burning, he saw before him the Rhivi scouts — dodging, leaping from the path of bounding boulders as if in some bizarre, deadly game. Beyond, black, steaming bedrock towered, the spine of a new mountain range, still growing, still rising, lifting and tilting the floor of the valley where the Malazan now lay. The sky behind it churned iron-grey with steam and smoke.

Do.. you not have any feats from Anomander Rake, himself?

He is the plot decice character and one of the most annoying to use in vs debates. The reason why I don't post any of his feats is because he barely did anything yet.

So far he is done "on screen":

Down on the hill, High Mage Tayschrenn rose and lifted his arms out to the sides. A wave of golden flame spanned his hands, then rolled upward, growing as it raced toward Moon's Spawn. The spell crashed against the black rock, sending chunks hurtling out, then down.

...

A figure had appeared on the ledge before the portal, its arms upraised, long silver hair blowing from its head.

...

Even as Rake gathered his power, twin balls of blue fire raced upward from the center hill. They struck the Moon near its base and rocked it. Tayschrenn launched another wave of golden flames, crashing with amber spume and red-tongued smoke.

The Moon's lord responded. A black, writhing wave rolled down to the first hill. The High Mage was buffeted to his knees deflecting it, the hilltop around him blighted as the necrous power rolled down the slopes, engulfing nearby ranks of soldiers. Tattersail watched as a midnight flash swallowed the hapless men, followed by a thump that thundered through the earth. When the flash dissipated, the soldiers lay in rotting heaps, mowed down like stalks of grain.

...

The world became a living nightmare, as sorcery flew upward to batter Moon's Spawn, and sorcery rained downward, indiscriminate and devastating. Earth rose skyward in thundering columns. Rocks ripped through men like hot stones through snow. A downpour of ash descended to cover the living and dead alike. The sky dimmed to pallid rose, the sun a coppery disc behind the haze.

...

Magic rained in an endless storm around Tayschrenn, where he still knelt on the withered, blackened hilltop. But every wave directed his way he shunted aside, wreaking devastation among the soldiers cowering on the plain. Through the carnage filling the air, through the ash and shrill-tongued ravens, through the raining rocks and the screams of the wounded and dying, through the blood-chilling shrieks of demons flinging themselves into ranks of soldiery -- through it all sounded the steady thunder of the High Mage's onslaught. Enormous cliffs, sheared from the Moon's face and raging with flame and trailing columns of black smoke, fell down into the city of Pale, transforming the city into its own cauldron of death and chaos.

///

Anomander Rake, Son of Darkness, walked between the shanties of Worrytown. The gate was ahead, but no guards were visible. The huge doors were barred.

From beyond, from the city itself, fires roared here and there, thrusting bulging cloaks of spark-lit smoke up into the black night.

Five paces from the gates now, and something snapped and fell away. The doors swung open. And, unaccosted, unnoticed, Anomander Rake walked into Darujhistan.

Howls rose like madness unleashed.

The Son of Darkness reached up and unsheathed Dragnipur.

Steam curled from the black blade, twisting into ephemeral chains that stretched out as he walked up the wide, empty street. Stretched out to drag behind him, and from each length others emerged and from these still more, a forest's worth of iron roots, snaking out, whispering over the cobbles.

He had never invited such a manifestation before. Reining in that bleed of power had been an act of mercy, to all those who might witness it, who might comprehend its significance.

But on this night, Anomander Rake had other things on his mind.

Chains of smoke, chains and chains and chains, so many writhing in his wake that they filled the breadth of the street, that they snaked over and under and spilled out into side streets, alleys, beneath estate gates, beneath doors and through windows. They climbed walls.

Wooden barriers disintegrated -- doors and sills and gates and window frames. Stones cracked, bricks spat mortar. Walls bowed. Buildings groaned.

He walked on as those chains grew taut.

No need yet to lean forward with each step. No need yet to reveal a single detail to betray the strength and the will demanded of him.

He walked on.

Throughout the besieged city, mages, witches, wizards, and sorcerors clutched the sides of their heads, eyes squeezing shut as unbearable pressure closed in. Many fell to their knees. Others staggered. Still others curled up into tight fetal balls on the floor, as the world groaned.

Raging fires flinched, collapsed into themselves, died in silent gasps.

The howl of the Hounds thinned as if forced through tight valves.

In a slag-crusted pit twin sisters paused as one in their efforts to scratch each other's eyes out. In the midst of voluminous clouds of noxious vapours, knee deep in magma that swirled like a lake of molten sewage, the sisters halted, and slowly lifted their heads.

As if scenting the air.

Dragnipur.

Dragnipur.

///

Samar Dev saw Anomander Rake's gaze settle briefly on Dassem's sword, and it seemed a sad smile showed itself, in the instant before Dassem attacked.

To all who witnessed -- the cultists, Samar Dev, Karsa Orlong, even unto the five Hounds of Shadow and the Great Ravens hunched on every ledge -- that first clash of weapons was too fast to register. Sparks slanted, the night air rang with savage parries, counter-blows, the biting crunch of edges against cross-hilts. Even their bodies were but a blur.

And he is also turned into dragon and solo'ed an army on screen once, but I can't find quote right now. Aside from that he is doing nothing and we only have powerscaling for him.

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Wut

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@redzkz: He is the plot decice character and one of the most annoying to use in vs debates. The reason why I don't post any of his feats is because he barely did anything yet.

Ah, gotcha. Yeah, one of those annoying characters. I wasn't asking because I doubted you, I genuinely wanted to see what feats he had. From the feats, and if he did turn into a dragon and solo'd an army, seems more on Teclis' level of mass destruction level magic. Which.. means team 1 loses since they don't really have any magic users.

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@wut: but he did say round two with no magic so....?

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#17  Edited By Wut

@killerwasp: Psh, I only care about the round where people have all their abilities. XD

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@wut: so the brass bull wins due to anti magic? Xd huehue!? Also if we remove the teclis character who wins? Xd

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Redzkz

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@wut: so the brass bull wins due to anti magic? Xd huehue!? Also if we remove the teclis character who wins? Xd

I have no idea about most of team 1 characters and some of team 2, but Grimgor can take down Drizzt (Obold was able to take down Drizzt and Grimgor is Obold ver 10.0) and Kroq-Gar can take Geralt.

No idea about the rest.

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Hypnos0929

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@solarwavealpha: Please don't tag me in these. I don't know anything about them

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Dust_Hawk

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Team Warhammer. Grimgor should be the mvp.

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@redzkz: Taurox wa a doombull and head of a Minotaur pack along with other beastmen who would you know slaughter everyone. Anyone who looked into his gaze was killed friend or foe alike and ofc like grimgor he loved to murder. We all know the beastmen don't get many gifts from the forces of chaos cause they don't really get shit done until they unite for time to time kind of like the greenskins and skaven. However Taurox the brass bull was different, for khorne decided he was actually worth something because he was getting stuff done. So khorne was going to bless him by sending a daemon his way ofc one of khorne champs and you know what that retarded daemon did?... looked right in Taurox eyes and you know Taurox hates that $h!t and right after this happened Taurox ate him... literally bit the daemons head off before it could do anything and consumed the rest right after he slaughtered his entire brayherd, including other minotaurs, giants, and other creatures iirc. After that he went on a killing spree as a normal but bloodlusted gorebull for a YEAR and ONE DAY he never rested made entire cities, towns, and villages run red with blood along with killing any beastmen, greenskins or any other creature stupid enough to get in his way. After that he died from pure exhaustion but was brought back to life iirc by either khorne or te daemons power and his whole body but his tiny little opening on his throat was brass. He died from the empires best hunter who has killed ice dragons, giants, and other monsters with a bow and arrow... the guy wasn't normal after Karl franz saw how good this guy was he gifted him with a bow that.....magically guides its arrows to the "heart" of any monster he fires at it... basically an aimbot with an instant kill mixed together.... well you know when I said Tauroxs body was covered in complete brass but that one spot? Well yeah in the middle of battle at the empires capital altdorf the huntsman placed an arrow in this throat from a couple hundred meters away. So yeah @wut thinks he's a puss for that reason but like all beastmen he has plot going against him with you know the empires own personal archer who was given a bow to one shot anything cause "reasons & magic" Xd he's not grimgor I'll give wut that but he's going to own anyone here imo. The only threats I see is hellscream and arthas. Also the brass bull has two hellfire axes just FYI.

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Wut

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@killerwasp: He's a puss. XD Grimgor woulda walked it off.

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@wut: to be fair grimgor has tanked an arrow to his head I posted a fear of him doing it way back, BUT that was a regular arrow and not filled with "magic & plot" Xd

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deactivated-5bb7f2e29af78

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@hypnos0929: Ill remove ya from the list, sorry man I must of seen you in another couple of threads so thats why you were added.

@redzkz: Fair enough Ill swap him out for this person right here. Cassandra Pentaghast

@wut said:

@solarwavealpha: Paladin Arthas or Death Knight Arthas? Orc Grom or Fel Grom?

Let's do one round with Pally arthas and orc grom, and then another round with DK Arthas and Fel Grom.

Also I saw all everyone's answers, but curious why are the lizardmen not ranked higher? They have countless centuries of fighting experience, any reason why they aren't really at threat?

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Wut

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@solarwavealpha: Because while they are great warriors, they aren't in the same tier as Grimgor.

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@wut: Sorry, let me rephrase what makes grimgor better than them?

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#28  Edited By Wut

@solarwavealpha: Vastly better stats, better feats, better weaponry and armor has far more displays of skill (You can be centuries of years old, you can have all the experience you want in killing daemons and skaven, it isn't the same as someone like Grimgor who has killed dozens of High Elf Lords and Dwarf Lords in single combat), Grimgor can also fight in a duel for an entire day and not be tired in the least.

Grimgor is simply superior in a hilarious sense. He is one of the greatest warriors in WHF. Abhorash and EoS Gotreks (Well, and Ka'Bandha, but he doesn't count) are his betters, but that is.. pretty much it. (Archaon's blade is what beat Grimgor, not Archaon, himself, who was losing.)

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@wut: Well, I don't think he just fought daemons and skaven alike considering the place has been filled with IIRC Greenskins, amazons, humans, etc. Also what makes dwarfs and high elves better than skaven and daemons? I mean the Skaven did I guess win their wars?

Also there is Crom the Conqueror who stalemated Grimgor and wouldn't the White dwarf be as good if not better?

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#30  Edited By Wut

@solarwavealpha: We don't read much about Amazon's fighting Lizardmen. I doubt they do. Amazon's being smart enough to stay away from the temples. There aren't that many greenskins in Lustria despite what Total War II likes to present. Lizardmen spend the vast majority of their time fighting Skaven. Daemons was more back in the ancient days.

Uh, besides the fact a Dwarf Lord or an Elf Lord would stomp a Skaven Warlord into the ground in a 1v1? The only skaven warlord that was ever worth much in terms of skill was Queek, and even then, he was not as good as Belegar. He beat Belegar via surrounding an exhausting Belegar and still almost lost. This is, of course, ignoring the fact that Grimgor has fought dozens of Rat Ogres, by himself, killed every single one of them, realized the Skaven had nothing that could challenge him anymore, and so buggered off despite having slaughtered almost all of Hell Pit by this time. If Grimgor had continued, Hell Pit would be gone. (That is the place the Skaven make all their big monsters).

Crom stalemated Grimgor for a day, but would have eventually lost. He was also slain by Valten and Luthor Huss. Valten died in his duel against Archaon, but he was losing that duel. Grimgor was winning that duel.

White Dwarf's feats of slaying an armies worth of foes is matched by Grimgor, but Grimgor has better dueling feats, therefor, Grimgor would be the superior fighter of the two if we base it on what we know.

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@wut: I've heard they actually fight quite a bit because the Amazons have a mutual hatred for them, but that's just what I've heard.

Kroq Gar though was fighting them for centuries and was centuries old before the daemon invasion. He was the last of his kind from his temple though?

I thought Belegar got gang banged by Skarnisk and Queek? I think someone quoted on SB's that the Skaven made a deal with Skarnisk to lay waste to Belegar and then right after proving some support they back stabbed skarnisk, cause that's skaven for you. Unless I'm wrong? Also true Queek did get his neck snapped by Thorim or the king of the dwarfs. However, I did say daemons and skaven as well. Daemons are pretty well known for giving the beat down to the High elves, I also completely forgot about the Dark Elves to which Mr. Gar has prolly fought right?

Idk if abc logic would apply though? Crom and Grimgor did stalemate, but that's prolly cause they fought on even grounds more and less. I mean Crom did win the battle and Grimgor was forced to retreat never the less. We also know Valten won because the plot demanded it.

Based on hype though?

P.S Not arguing in favor of lizardmen, just more curious as to why they aren't up there with grimgor.

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Not too sure, I think the Warhammer team would prolly win due to grimgor more than anything else.

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@solarwavealpha: I've heard they actually fight quite a bit because the Amazons have a mutual hatred for them, but that's just what I've heard.

The Slann accept them which means the Lizardmen would ignore them so long as they didn't do anything near the temples. I am sure skirmishes do happen, but it isn't anything large or important. The Skaven v Lizardman war is the biggest thing in Lustria (Skaven were winning, slowly but surely.)

Kroq Gar though was fighting them for centuries and was centuries old before the daemon invasion. He was the last of his kind from his temple though?

His temple and spawning, sure, but Kroq-Gar is great, sure, but he doesn't have as many feats as Grimgor, and his most important ones are being an amazing commander. He is closer to Gorbad in that regard then Grimgor.

I thought Belegar got gang banged by Skarnisk and Queek? I think someone quoted on SB's that the Skaven made a deal with Skarnisk to lay waste to Belegar and then right after proving some support they back stabbed skarnisk, cause that's skaven for you. Unless I'm wrong? Also true Queek did get his neck snapped by Thorim or the king of the dwarfs. However, I did say daemons and skaven as well. Daemons are pretty well known for giving the beat down to the High elves, I also completely forgot about the Dark Elves to which Mr. Gar has prolly fought right?

They teamed up against him, but the alliance did not last long. Skarnisk, himself, did not fight Belegar at this time. Belegar and Queek fought after Belegar was very exhausted, his forces dead and he was wounded. Queek still barely won. He does defeat Skarnisk later as well (Although Skarnisk survives).

During the End Times, Daemons were more fighting the Dark Elves then the High Elves. The High Elves were busy fighting one another.... Again.

The problem with comparing a Lizardman to Grimgor is.. Grimgor's feats are all about him. Someone like Gar is about him being the last defender and great general of the lizardmen. Sure, there is little doubt he is a monster fighter, but nothing on the par with Grimgor who when put up against Malekith and his dragon ended up with a dead dragon and Malekith on his knees.

Idk if abc logic would apply though? Crom and Grimgor did stalemate, but that's prolly cause they fought on even grounds more and less. I mean Crom did win the battle and Grimgor was forced to retreat never the less. We also know Valten won because the plot demanded it.

They were fighting, but Grimgor would have eventually won that fight. His army routed to Croms (Because, again, Grimgor is a warrior, not a leader. He doesn't even really 'lead' his waaagh, the just follow him on his rampage). Crom was beating Valten but Valten + Huss was too much for him.

Based on hype though?

Who are we referring to here?

P.S Not arguing in favor of lizardmen, just more curious as to why they aren't up there with grimgor.

Because Grimgor is a murder-machine. Very, very few melee characters have the amount of 'I'ma slaughter that army by myself' feats that Grimgor has.

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#34  Edited By MErulezall

@wut: I thought Grimgor lost to arch because of skill? How did arch break his weapon?

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@wut:

The Slann accept them which means the Lizardmen would ignore them so long as they didn't do anything near the temples. I am sure skirmishes do happen, but it isn't anything large or important. The Skaven v Lizardman war is the biggest thing in Lustria (Skaven were winning, slowly but surely.)

Ah okay, also yes chem war is what won the Skaven and ofc plagues, plagues everywhere.

His temple and spawning, sure, but Kroq-Gar is great, sure, but he doesn't have as many feats as Grimgor, and his most important ones are being an amazing commander. He is closer to Gorbad in that regard then Grimgor.

Ah I see, alright so unlike lets say the White dwarf and a few other melee based creatures Grimgor abandons leadership and goes full melee?

They teamed up against him, but the alliance did not last long. Skarnisk, himself, did not fight Belegar at this time. Belegar and Queek fought after Belegar was very exhausted, his forces dead and he was wounded. Queek still barely won. He does defeat Skarnisk later as well (Although Skarnisk survives).

During the End Times, Daemons were more fighting the Dark Elves then the High Elves. The High Elves were busy fighting one another.... Again.

If belegar wasn't exhausted Queek would of gotten spanked?

Ah I see.

The problem with comparing a Lizardman to Grimgor is.. Grimgor's feats are all about him. Someone like Gar is about him being the last defender and great general of the lizardmen. Sure, there is little doubt he is a monster fighter, but nothing on the par with Grimgor who when put up against Malekith and his dragon ended up with a dead dragon and Malekith on his knees.

I heard Grimgor lucked out though via immune to poison? Why didn't Malekith not use spells again? I think in a melee fight though just strictly melee I think Gar could win against Male, however the victory would prolly be no where near Grimgor's, so I guess yeah Grimgor would be better.

They were fighting, but Grimgor would have eventually won that fight. His army routed to Croms (Because, again, Grimgor is a warrior, not a leader. He doesn't even really 'lead' his waaagh, the just follow him on his rampage). Crom was beating Valten but Valten + Huss was too much for him.

Reason why, was Crom slowly losing? If the fight between him and Valten didn't happen though and that feat was never displayed would they of been even then?

Who are we referring to here?

White Dwarf

Because Grimgor is a murder-machine. Very, very few melee characters have the amount of 'I'ma slaughter that army by myself' feats that Grimgor has.

Mhhh. Alright well if you were to put a list of best fighter to worst fighter who would be 1-7?

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#36  Edited By Wut

@merulezall: Nah, in a fight of skill Grimgor was winning. Arch was being pushed back and the big moment was when Grimgor headbutted him breaking his helm which is what was giving him pre-cog and tipped the scales in his favor.

Getting pissed off because he was losing, Archaon released the daemon inside the Slayer of Kings (his sword), when their weapons collided, Grimgor's axe shattered which is what let Archaon kill Grimgor (as Grimgor was attempting to strangle him since his axe was gone). Archaon was very upset at having to use the daemon though, meant he was, in some way, admitting an Orc was better then he.

EDIT: @solarwavealpha

Ah I see, alright so unlike lets say the White dwarf and a few other melee based creatures Grimgor abandons leadership and goes full melee?

Kinda. A lot of the melee lords are known for their leadership skills as well, Tyrion, for example. Grimgor isn't much of a commander. Just a murder machine. So his feats are less about how 'they defeated the great horde!' and more 'Grimgor done slaughtered these fools'.

If belegar wasn't exhausted Queek would of gotten spanked?

Eh, not 'spanked' Queek is good, but he wouldn't have won.

I heard Grimgor lucked out though via immune to poison? Why didn't Malekith not use spells again? I think in a melee fight though just strictly melee I think Gar could win against Male, however the victory would prolly be no where near Grimgor's, so I guess yeah Grimgor would be better.

Orcs aren't really immune to poison as potent as a black dragon's. Malekith didn't use magic because:

1. Grimgor's armor gives him resistance.

2. Malekith didn't get time to do so. Grimgor jumped through the poison breath, surprising the crap out of malekith, and onto his dragon. He fell off, but before Malekith or the dragon could really do much, Grimgor butchered his dragon and Malekith was left going, 'What the hell is happening!?'

Reason why, was Crom slowly losing? If the fight between him and Valten didn't happen though and that feat was never displayed would they of been even then?

1. Chaos Warriors do tired. Archaon, for instance, was getting exhausted during his fight with Be'lakor. Grimgor does not get tired (if he does, we have never seen it and he has fought for entire weeks without rest). They tire extremely, extremely, extremely slowly being the super humans they are, but they do.

2. Grimgor has the better equipment. Crom's big thing is he is so good that he never needed magical gear and mocks those that do... while its cool.. Grimgor's axe doesn't really care one way or the other.

It would have ended in Grimgor's favor had they fought to the end, the reason Crom is so amazing is the fact he was able to do that.

White Dwarf

Eh, Hype, scaling and he does have some feats.

Mhhh. Alright well if you were to put a list of best fighter to worst fighter who would be 1-7?

All time? Or who were currently active just prior, and during, the End Times?

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@wut: Interesting, I just thought Grimgor was able to smack Arch around, but Arch was more skilled in not dying and then landing a lucky blow on him. Haven't read into the lore yet too much, so it's kind of interesting one of the best warriors is an orc.

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#39  Edited By Wut

@merulezall: Nah, was closer then that. Would have been better if Grimgor won. (Not a salty O&G player... at all.. <.<)

A fun: Do you know who invaded Ulthuan, nearly brought the elves to ruination and the brink of extinction with a fraction of his original army? A fat goblin on a chariot.

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@wut: I sense then biased towards grimgor? :)

That's because elves are weak. Like I said for WoW I personally favor their trolls, orcs, and tauren. :)

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@merulezall: Orc and Goblin player for... longer then I care to admit as I will feel old.

You will never hear any objections from me in the 'High Elves suck' category.

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@wut:

Kinda. A lot of the melee lords are known for their leadership skills as well, Tyrion, for example. Grimgor isn't much of a commander. Just a murder machine. So his feats are less about how 'they defeated the great horde!' and more 'Grimgor done slaughtered these fools'.

Ah okay, so everyone here is a better commander than Grimgor, but just not a better fighter?

Eh, not 'spanked' Queek is good, but he wouldn't have won.

What if it was the lead assassin of the Skaven?

Orcs aren't really immune to poison as potent as a black dragon's. Malekith didn't use magic because:

1. Grimgor's armor gives him resistance.

2. Malekith didn't get time to do so. Grimgor jumped through the poison breath, surprising the crap out of malekith, and onto his dragon. He fell off, but before Malekith or the dragon could really do much, Grimgor butchered his dragon and Malekith was left going, 'What the hell is happening!?'

Why was Grimgor immune?

I thought grimgor's only special gear was his ax?

Idiot Malekith couldn't shoot from the sky? Ha!

1. Chaos Warriors do tired. Archaon, for instance, was getting exhausted during his fight with Be'lakor. Grimgor does not get tired (if he does, we have never seen it and he has fought for entire weeks without rest). They tire extremely, extremely, extremely slowly being the super humans they are, but they do.

2. Grimgor has the better equipment. Crom's big thing is he is so good that he never needed magical gear and mocks those that do... while its cool.. Grimgor's axe doesn't really care one way or the other.

It would have ended in Grimgor's favor had they fought to the end, the reason Crom is so amazing is the fact he was able to do that.

Wouldn't the fight end before anyone gets tired?

If grimgor's axe wasn't magical how would the two settle then?

Fair enough, I feel Crom got the short end of the stick then at the end times.

Eh, Hype, scaling and he does have some feats.

I'm confused, I meant if by hype would the white dwarf win? X)

All time? Or who were currently active just prior, and during, the End Times?

All at their height of power.

Also who wins. I replaced the character with, Cassandra Pentaghast from dragon age.

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@wut said:

@merulezall: Orc and Goblin player for... longer then I care to admit as I will feel old.

You will never hear any objections from me in the 'High Elves suck' category.

Lol. I think we all feel old.

Yeah, elves in general I could care less for. The only elves I like are the snow elves in Skyrim, they just for some reason were extremely cool to me.

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@solarwavealpha: Ah okay, so everyone here is a better commander than Grimgor, but just not a better fighter?

I would say an Empire State Sergeant is a better commander then Grimgor.. cause he isn't a commander.

What if it was the lead assassin of the Skaven?

Deathmaster Snitch? There is a scene in one of the thanquol novels where he kills his rat ogre with hilarious ease, he is probably the best of the Skaven.

Why was Grimgor immune?

Honestly.. cause he is Grimgor. Silly answer, but that is all I got. Nothing he had really should stop those fumes hence why Malekith was like, O.O What?

I thought grimgor's only special gear was his ax?

Nah, he has his axe, his blood-forged armor and an amulet.

Idiot Malekith couldn't shoot from the sky? Ha!

Orcs were beating up his army from the flank, so he landed to hold the line and rally them. Didn't know Grimgor was there until it was a bit too late.

Wouldn't the fight end before anyone gets tired?

They had just fought the entire day, so I would not put much stock in it ending before one gets tired. I would say the first one that gets tired is going to slip up and lose.

If grimgor's axe wasn't magical how would the two settle then?

The above. In a fight of attrition, Grimgor has the far greater odds of victory.

Fair enough, I feel Crom got the short end of the stick then at the end times.

Crom was my favorite Chaos Lord, so yes, I agree. XD Loved his character and the idea behind him.

I'm confused, I meant if by hype would the white dwarf win? X)

Well.. you're asking an O&G player if another character has more hype then their big guy. :3 The answer is always no in that scenario.

All at their height of power.

Excluding Gods/Greater Daemons:

1. EoS Gotreks with axes of Grimnir

2. Aenarion with the Sword of Khaine

3. Abhorash >= Tyrion with the Sword of Khaine

4. Tyrion/Grimgor/Crom

5. Difference between 5 and 4 is small: Green Knight [Gilles Le Breton]/Malekith/Archaon/EoS Sigmar [This is skill not raw power, after all]

6: Louen Leoncoeur/Living Sigmar/Valten/Arbaal the Undefeated/Valkia the Bloody/etc

7. Wulfric/Kurt Helborg/etc.

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@wut:

I would say an Empire State Sergeant is a better commander then Grimgor.. cause he isn't a commander.

Yeah that was my point hahaha :)

Deathmaster Snitch? There is a scene in one of the thanquol novels where he kills his rat ogre with hilarious ease, he is probably the best of the Skaven.

would he own Belegar?

Honestly.. cause he is Grimgor. Silly answer, but that is all I got. Nothing he had really should stop those fumes hence why Malekith was like, O.O What?

Ah plot armor good, good!

Orcs were beating up his army from the flank, so he landed to hold the line and rally them. Didn't know Grimgor was there until it was a bit too late.

Why would Malekith pick a fight with grimgor's army???

They had just fought the entire day, so I would not put much stock in it ending before one gets tired. I would say the first one that gets tired is going to slip up and lose.

Fair enough.

Crom was my favorite Chaos Lord, so yes, I agree. XD Loved his character and the idea behind him.

Alot of people like Norsca though, how do you like their leaders?

Well.. you're asking an O&G player if another character has more hype then their big guy. :3 The answer is always no in that scenario.

No respect for the dawi huh? Hahaha!

Excluding Gods/Greater Daemons:

1. EoS Gotreks with axes of Grimnir

2. Aenarion with the Sword of Khaine

3. Abhorash >= Tyrion with the Sword of Khaine

4. Tyrion/Grimgor/Crom

5. Difference between 5 and 4 is small: Green Knight [Gilles Le Breton]/Malekith/Archaon/EoS Sigmar [This is skill not raw power, after all]

6: Louen Leoncoeur/Living Sigmar/Valten/Arbaal the Undefeated/Valkia the Bloody/etc

7. Wulfric/Kurt Helborg/etc.

I meant in this thread ha

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@solarwavealpha: would he own Belegar?

Eh, I mean, he is very, very, very fast and agile, I think in a head to head, I might favor Belegar just because he is outfitted more for a straight up fight.

Why would Malekith pick a fight with grimgor's army???

Lol he didn't mean to. They were fighting the 'last battle' trying to stop Archaon, but Grimgor and his horde joined the fray.

Alot of people like Norsca though, how do you like their leaders?

Crom isn't Norscan.

No Caption Provided

Crom is a Kurgan and is from the Eastern Steppes. Most Chaos Warriors/Marauders are from the northern waste, Norscans are a minority with some in Norsca not even believing in the Chaos Gods. The Chaos Waste are very big lol.

No respect for the dawi huh? Hahaha!

I love the Dawi. Their novels tend to be the best written.

I meant in this thread ha

1. 'Say My Name! Say My Name!'

2. Everyone else.

XD <-- Bias opinion.

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@wut:

Eh, I mean, he is very, very, very fast and agile, I think in a head to head, I might favor Belegar just because he is outfitted more for a straight up fight.

Also Belegar is one of the best fighters for the dwarfes correct?

Lol he didn't mean to. They were fighting the 'last battle' trying to stop Archaon, but Grimgor and his horde joined the fray.

Well he should of paid more attention haha. Also why did grimgor join in? Wouldn't he fight chaos just because it's a challenge all by itself considering his waaagh last time lost to ONE of the many armies of chaos?

Crom isn't Norscan.

I meant it seems a lot of people like Norsca and Norscan characters, what are your thoughts on them?

I love the Dawi. Their novels tend to be the best written.

What novels tend to be the worst written?

1. 'Say My Name! Say My Name!'

2. Everyone else.

XD <-- Bias opinion.

Even Drizzt? I thought he would be a good fighter against Grimgor, I guess I might of been wrong ha.

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@solarwavealpha:

Also Belegar is one of the best fighters for the dwarfes correct?

Eh, if by 'best fighter' we mean, 'not a lot of named dwarf lords so makes it by default'. XD Best 'non-White Dwarf/Gotreks' dwarf in terms of melee skill is Ungrim.

Well he should of paid more attention haha. Also why did grimgor join in? Wouldn't he fight chaos just because it's a challenge all by itself considering his waaagh last time lost to ONE of the many armies of chaos?

Because Grimgor is Grimgor and just wants to fight. He was fighting everyone until Malekith bowed and convinced Grimgor that Archaon said he was a wuss and so Grimgor went to go punt Archaon. (His WAAAGH at this time was also much, much, much bigger containing most of the orc/goblin/hobgoblin/ogres in the world. Its the WAAAGH he beat down chaos in the east so badly with they gave up on that hemisphere.)

I meant it seems a lot of people like Norsca and Norscan characters, what are your thoughts on them?

Some are neat. Some are meh.

What novels tend to be the worst written?

Eh, the elf ones that aren't the T&T trilogy (I didn't like cut-aways to Caledor and Khaine in the third one though).

Even Drizzt? I thought he would be a good fighter against Grimgor, I guess I might of been wrong ha.

That was a joke, 'Grimgor IZ DA BEST!' being the meme.

As already pointed out, the last time Drizzt fought a heavily armored, very skilled orc... he lost.. twice. Grimgor is that orc if he went to leg day everyday, went through eight rocky montages.. and got hit in the head as much as rocky did.

Personally, I just like imagining Grimgor drop kicking Geralt.

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@wut:

Eh, if by 'best fighter' we mean, 'not a lot of named dwarf lords so makes it by default'. XD Best 'non-White Dwarf/Gotreks' dwarf in terms of melee skill is Ungrim.

Lol ah okay.

Because Grimgor is Grimgor and just wants to fight. He was fighting everyone until Malekith bowed and convinced Grimgor that Archaon said he was a wuss and so Grimgor went to go punt Archaon. (His WAAAGH at this time was also much, much, much bigger containing most of the orc/goblin/hobgoblin/ogres in the world. Its the WAAAGH he beat down chaos in the east so badly with they gave up on that hemisphere.)

Really, that bad huh?

That was a joke, 'Grimgor IZ DA BEST!' being the meme.

As already pointed out, the last time Drizzt fought a heavily armored, very skilled orc... he lost.. twice. Grimgor is that orc if he went to leg day everyday, went through eight rocky montages.. and got hit in the head as much as rocky did.

Personally, I just like imagining Grimgor drop kicking Geralt.

LOL! I love memes

But that was surely noob level Drizzt right?

Got a personal hatred towards Geralt?

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#50  Edited By Wut

@solarwavealpha: But that was surely noob level Drizzt right?

It wasn't. Its a veteran Drizzt. Orc King, the novel, was in the later half of his series.

Got a personal hatred towards Geralt?

He is a crap character that manages to sour his entire universe and is overshadowed by every side character that are vastly more interesting then he is. He is such a crap character that the developers had to make an in-lore excuse as to why he is such a bland and crap character who looks like he jumped out of a teenager's fantasy rp cliche character sheet and has the abilities of any anime male harm protag ever (being boring af but somehow attracting more interesting people who would be better off with a brainless sex toy).