Baylon Skoll and Ahsoka Tano vs Anakin Skywalker and Redeemed Ben Solo

Anakin potentially solos both rounds.

Anakin solos

Ben Solo is likely too much of a weak link for Anakin to carry, imo.

Ben is way too much of a weak link, and I doubt Anakin could solo them both.

Round 2 is different, where anakin solos mid diff

Ben is not a weakling at all, he may be the worst duelist here but force wise he trumps both Ahsoka and Baylon.

OT. Team mid diffs round 1. Anakin solos 2nd round.

@ieatnettles: @krisbishop: Reasons for Ben being a weak link? Ahsoka's (and, by extension, Baylan's) scaling mainly comes from her performance against Rebels (pre prime) Vader. However, even padawan Ben Solo was able to (with at most moderate difficulty) defeat a character that was able to contend with peak Vader for 40ish seconds 1v1 (Ren). Obviously peak Ben would perform massively better than his padawan self would, likely lasting minutes. Can a character on that level really be considered out of their depth here? This is not even taking the force into account, or the fact that pre prime nerfed Kylo already defeated a unit that outperformed Ahsoka against a common opponent (Praetorians- I have yet to hear a convincing counterargument to this scaling).

Team Skywalker both rounds, but Zonakin beats all three of them simultaneously.

@dathvada: I didn't mean he would get stomped, but he wouldn't last long enough for Anakin to kill either baylan or ahsoka.

Nwm, just watched the newest episode. Ahsoka was on a winning side against light side Anakin and disarmed KFV. Team 1 takes round 1 comfortably now.

@gaoron:

What makes you think that Anakin “scaling” holds up to scrutiny? It’s force ghost Anakin, who is far beyond ROTS Anakin based on the fact that he’s able to shape shift, kick Ahsoka through time, morph her form from teenager to adult and change his lightsaber colour on a whim. If it is Anakin and not an illusion/dream, it’s clearly just a ghost Anakin who is imparting a lesson onto her. You’ve got zero ways to scale that to ROTS Anakin considering Ghost Anakin is shown to be far far above.

This was discussed on the Ahsoka discussion thread, where it was pretty much unanimously agreed that nobody is taking a vision/illusion seriously for scaling. And if it is indeed KFV (which it clearly isn’t), would pretty directly put KFV far above Rebels Vader.

@frozen: Then scale it to force ghost Anakin, that only makes it even better 💪

Also it wasn't an illusion/vision. Jacen was hearing/sensing their fight happen in real time. Watch the episode.

@gaoron: Pls be trolling.

You can’t scale dreams. Under this logic ESB Luke solos the PT for beating Sidious.

She was in the water the whole time and as rescued once her lesson against held back dream Anakin was done. It was all in her head.

The lesson of the scene wasn’t desperate wonky powerscaling but rather Ahsoka learning her legacy wasn’t death/destruction.

She was fighting the manifestation of darkness within her and overcoming it. There was no power-scaling lmao.

@nassergrant19: It wasn't a dream. Watch the episode.

@gaoron: It was absolutely a dream/vision, why would you think it wasn’t?

@gaoron:

The ghost Anakin that was blitz stomping the dark side wraiths that were blitzing peak GM Luke? Lol.

It’s also pretty obvious that this ghost Anakin is just straight up far stronger than his actual KFV self. He straight up walks Ahsoka down in a saber lock one handed. Not even the Machalor Vader did this so casually:

Still shows one hand:

What we do know about “intent“ is that we’re given a version of Anakin who can shape shift, kick Ahsoka into a different point of time entirely and who specifically wants to see her succeed and regain the will to fight.

Of course this is all assuming it’s actually a ghost Anakin and not just a force vision or an illusion of some kind. I’ll be generous and assume it’s him given that he directly referenced ROTJ. But anyway in summation:

• Force ghost Anakin is very obviously orders of magnitude above any version of Vader or Anakin outside of Mortis Anakin. We canonically know that force ghosts are more powerful, Anakin‘s displaying abilities well beyond mortal FUs and we know that ghost Anakin is >>> GM Luke. There’s zero way to scale this to KFV or Anakin
• This version of “Anakin” was imparting a lesson onto her and this is pretty obviously the narrative intent. Once she says she wants to live, he smiles and tells her that there is hope for and disappears
• Clearly the mechanics of the vision make this all obvious, e.g. Anakin literally morphing into suit Vader mid fight
• Even if we were to assume this is actually KFV (which it isn’), would pretty much destroy any scaling for her. Her and “light side“ Anakin were playfully sparring, and may I remind you that he actually won by slashing the ground. Given that you think Cere win over Vader is legit despite similar use of environment, this would stand. And KFV was holding back and casually forcing her back with one hand. If anything this is a bad look for her given how he didn’t actually have killing intent

I mean it is pretty obvious just looking at the discussion thread on gen discussion and other servers that nobody is seriously attempting to scale this based on what we are shown.

@gaoron:

1. She was in the water the whole time, hence where they found her.

2. Anakin wasn’t trying to kill his padawan. He was teaching a lesson about releasing her darkness and realizing she’s much more.

3. Ahsoka’s body literally morphed from teen to adult. Then Anakin morphs as well. He literally kicked her through time itself. This wasn’t real life.

Using a dream as scaling is just sad and reeks of desperation. Pls don’t make Ahsoka fans look this bad. No one is taking this seriously….

@sunshinedobbs: Because the fight was happening in real time and was heard/felt in the real world by outside people. Ahsoka was transported to some alternate dimension, maybe even by Anakin himself.

@gaoron:

Also force visions have canonically been heard by other people before and even seen. So that is nothing new.

@frozen: Filoni nor anyone writing the show give a feck about some niche ass book, let's be honest here.

But yes, force ghost Anakin is most than likely stronger than leaving Anakin/Vader and yes, he is definitely still better than Ahsoka. It's still an amazing feat for her to surprise, land hits and even disarm him.

@nassergrant19: Copium

@gaoron: One man army lol.

But hey no one on the site is stopping you from scaling a time travel dream sequence💀.

OT: Anakin solos

@gaoron:

OK let’s put actual canonical novels and just ignore them then? lol. Nothing about Anakin’s appearance in this contradicts SOTS.

Obi states in ANH that he will become far more powerful as a ghost. Anakin as a ghost is far beyond any iteration of himself outside of mortis. The actual episode has him shape shift, kick her through time itself, morphs her into her teen self and back to adult and then has him vanish on whim along with other abilities. And he’s very obviously just not intending to kill her and could end the entire vision if he wanted. Nor can you scale it as a “feat” if he wants the disarming to happen. He’s very visibly pleased when she decides that she wants to live. The whole thing is a rite of passage to re-establish her will to live.

So not only can you not gauge his power relative to his past iterations, but there’s very clearly dynamics at play which destroy any semblance of scaling.

And of course if this is somehow scaleable, you’re opening the doors to scale any force vision. Because you know, canon actually has force visions of Dark ESB Luke stomping Sidious. A vision thats stated to be so serious and significant that it is the “disturbance in the force“ that’s referenced in the actual ESB film (so you can’t hand wave it as just a fodder book). Or the vision of Vader killing Sidious, which Skywalker Family at War states would have happened had Vader decided to strike.

Its been 24 hours since the episode released ad almost nobody has even attempted to scale this to Ahsoka. Because it’s very obviously just not useable, unless Ahsoka and Anakin are now capable of kicking through time and space.

If anything, I’d seriously contend that scaling this would absolutely destroy her scaling because it puts a holding back KFV as being massively stronger than her.

Anakin >>> Baylon > Ahsoka > Ben

@nassergrant19:

In fact, dark ESB Luke soloing Sidious happened in a vision. A vision so significant that Sidious refers it to a “disturbance in the force” in the film and concludes that Luke could destroy both him and Vader.

@frozen: To be fair, General Grievous dueled Yoda who was using 2 arms with just one arm, so I do not think that would show that Anakin is much stronger, especially since for most of the fight he used both hands too

That said, yea, I am not comfortable using this either. Anakin was kicking her through time in that fight lol, so I would bet it is either vision like Cal fighting his master in Fallen Order and ESB Luke beating Sidious or it was Ghost Anakin testing her.

Or how about all the Dagobah Cave vision fights. lol

@eredin12:

Yoda was clowning on him mostly and in no serious trouble. Strength has also never been Yoda’s strong suit (his strength is noted equal to Dooku whereas his speed and agility is far beyond his), whereas GG has very strong stats. So it’s conceivable that a holding back clowning Yoda could contend like that. Anyway it’s more so the fact that this ghost vision Anakin was slowly and casually walking her back rather than just using one arm. So the fact that he’s just walking her down very slowly while holding back with one arm is pretty far above.

Agreed with rest of your post.

@Aristeaus: Yeah lol

kylo or ben (or however you want to call him) is a non factor
redeemed or not he is still a s..t tier duelist
and he also failed to use the force offensively
against his own pawns while not equiped with a lightsaber .

baylon is far less powerful than RoTS dooku and zonakin walked through him like he was nothing .
he is also less powerful than ahsoka
(it´s basically a done deal that he will lose/he is destined to lose their rematch in the ahsoka finale)

round 1 : team ahsoka has a "fighting chance" but loses (kylo dies regardless of the outcome)

round 2: zonakin solos with ease and "redeems" kylo via force choke for a good measure .

Team Ahsoka high diffs round one, round 2 is Team Anakin.

Anakin>>>Ahsoka>Baylon>>>Ben

@eredin12: @Aristeaus: @mustafa-28: @sunshinedobbs:

I’m going to post this to the other thread but someone noticed this.

• Anakin disarms her saber
• And it falls
• But when she wakes up she has both
• So she gets disarmed and the sabers fall into space
• Then when she’s about to wake up they reappear

@frozen: I agree with your take on the Anakin dream scene. Perhaps they will release some additional info in the future that changes things, but for now, I don't see how we can use a dream sequence where characters literally change age spontaneously for scaling purposes lol.

@frozen: that’s not one hand, he is losing her right hand with his left.

Though I think this version of Anakin is above ep 3 Anakin. He is like prime Vader level in a fully functional body.

@alextheboss:

He’s obviously way above Anakin. Not just based on the fact that he’d retain any power he had when he died as Vader, but that we know he was a stomp gap above GM Luke, who beat Exim Panshard, a sith spirit who is comparable to Sidious. This coupled with the fact that force ghosts are stated way beyond mortal FUs + all the whacky abilities he showed.

Re hand, I’ll slow down the gifs and analyse frames tomorrow.

@frozen: How do we know he is a stomp gap above GM Luke? I agree he is at least prime Vader level. As a force ghost he is beyond regular people, but Ahsoka is essentially a force ghost here too as she is half dead in the same plane as him and can interact with him. So the force ghost advantages may not have applied in this fight.

@alextheboss:

Because he speed blitzed/one shot 9 dark side wraiths that Luke was struggling to react to. Massively superior speed/power.

Ahsoka doesn’t have the abilities Anakin had. This is clearly shown. He can transform himself into different versions of himself, kick her through time, change his saber colour on a whim, etc. And at the end, we see him vanish. He also was able to dictate the form Ahsoka took. It’s made very abundant that he’s got control and powers in that realm which she doesn’t have.

Skywalkers for the win.

Even if that was the case ( I don't believe it is, and I'll talk about that in a minute ), Ahsoka would have no concept of being a force ghost and what that entails. Its like comparing a newborn baby and a Olympic athlete because they are both humans.

In Legends, Obi-Wan has a very similar encounter with Anakin before he dies.

“Anakin, listen carefully,” Obi-Wan interrupted. “You are in the netherworld of the Force, but if you ever wish to revisit corporeal space, then I still have one thing left to teach you. A way to become one with the Force. If you choose this path to immortality, then you must listen now, before your consciousness fades.” Obi-Wan sensed confusion and remorse in Anakin’s psyche, then Anakin answered, “But Master … why me?” “Because you ended the horror, Anakin,” Obi-Wan said. “Because you fulfilled the prophecy. Because you were … and are … the Chosen One.” But Obi-Wan knew in his heart that those were not the only reasons. He added, “Because I was wrong about you. And because I am your friend.” Anakin answered quietly, “Thank you, Master.”

Granted it is legends, but there is a precedent for being alive and still in the netherworld and having a choice to make. Just like Ahsoka did here.

okay you know what? if you genuinely think anakin can solo 2 people that are relative to a version of vader over a decade into his career (who is already stated to be better than anakin as a fighter overall at base and who is confirmed to be amped by malachor (4 times) and also rage amped (2 times)) you really can’t be helped. you can’t pull up a single fight anakin has where he fought and matched someone on the level of amped rebels vader and yet nobody acknowledges this whatsoever.

r1) ahsoka can take anakin and baylon can stomp ben

r2) ahsoka can stall anakin until baylon comes to help her

@emmafrostxmen: When is Rebels Vader stated above Anakin overall

@frozen: he isn’t stated to have significantly declined in sabers and his force power and mastery are massively above anakin which means his augmentation (speed and strength) are also above him by extension.

@emmafrostxmen: Ahsoka doesn’t scale to Vader’s force power/augmentation so how does this help her case?

Suited Vader skill isn’t impressive until ROTJ when he has that sparring match with Sidious.

@nassergrant19: vader’s skill in the suit is slightly below the likes of anakin in pure saber skill but his force power, physical strength, and speed are all far beyond anakin. there is no statement that exists to my knowledge that even slightly implies anakin is the better of the two. ahsoka also does scale directly to vader’s augmentation considering she directly blade locked with him several times while he was nexus amped and rage amped.

@emmafrostxmen:

He had issues with ANH Ben who is stated worse than ROTS Obi in duelling.

I dont agree with that. He is stated to be weaker physically, but I don't recall him being worse then ROTS in dueling. Also, not buying into the weaker physically thing. Its one source from one book. He is clearly far stronger in the force in ANH, we have lucas statements that put him significantly above vader, and the force augments dueling to begin with. Ben was like 57? in ANH. Dooku was in his 80s clapping people.

@emmafrostxmen: Ahsoka was being overpowered in the bladelock. In fact, in round 2 when Vader is injured, he wrecks her in a few seconds physically. There is no scaling.

Otherwise Cere=Vader, Koth=Vader, etc etc.

Ahsoka struggles in physical bladelock with the Inquisitors, Maul, and Elizabeth. She does not have even Pre-Prime ROTS Kenobi augmentation…let alone Anakin’s.

Also, this “amp” is unquantifiable at best. Many people have already debunked it. The so-called, amped to near Ahsoka lvl inquisitors were being matched by Ezra/Kanan who are a tier beneath her.

The only scaling Ahsoka has to Rebels Vader is skill which isn’t impressive at all considering ROTS Anakin is considerably more skilled than him.

OT: Anakin likely outskills both in R1. In R2 he force chokes Ahsoka while gutting Baylon.