Battle of the Week: Shazam vs Hercules

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emperorthanos-

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Poll Battle of the Week: Shazam vs Hercules (141 votes)

Shazam 62%
Hercules 30%
Too Close to Call 8%
No Caption Provided

With the new Shazam trailer coming out recently we decided to have Billy Batson in this weeks BOTW. His opponent is Hercules . Which of these two powerhouses will come out on top? You decide.

Rules

  • Combatants are in character.
  • This is a random encounter (no prep for either side) and both characters have standard gear. Pre and Post Flashpoint Shazam. Hercules gets his mace.
  • They're fighting in a generic city setting. It takes place during the day and they start roughly 100 feet apart and visible. Everything in the city (let's say the city is the size of Manhattan and surrounded by ocean) is on limits.
  • Incapacitation, knockout, BFR (battlefield removal, which means knocking someone so far away that the fight cannot continue in the very near future) or death all count as elimination. Making a tactical retreat counts as a loss, too. "What's a tactical retreat?" It's leaving the fight with the intention of not returning to the battle in the immediate future. Going to another spot in the environment to catch your breath for a moment or two or for a tactical advantage is not a tactical retreat.
  • Treating everyone else in the debate with respect is a sign of a good debater. If you think someone's saying something that just isn't true, go ahead and stick to the facts to point out why. There's no need at all to drop insults just because you disagree with someone. This is just talking about a fictional fight, there's no need for immaturity and mudslinging about fan fic.
  • If you think the poll isn't going how it should, making an informative post about why a character is being underestimated and spreading the word is far more useful than complaining.
  • One more thing: you don't need to write an essay to have your post highlighted in Friday's article. Sometimes concise posts can be way more effective than a flood of paragraphs. Viner posts that stand out will be included at the end.
  • Votes last till late Friday, and the votes will be posted in the OP to see where combatants stand by Friday. Votes do not determine who wins, only who the majority at the time sides with.

Special thanks to @k4tzm4n for allowing me and other users to continue making these battle of the week threads

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Chimeroid

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@the_badman:

The only Hulk scans in this thread have Herc's face being turned into a mush.

Again with the lying. Go read the thread again, and see where you are wrong.

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The_Badman

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@chimeroid: Oh the Classic Hulk one on the first page? Yeah I missed that. Still Thing level durability.

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The_Wotan

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1. His name is Captain Marvel.

2. He wins, more versatility, rather than just brute strength.

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GucciBrick

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Scaling off thor is pointless, that seems to be the only argument people even have for hercules having strength. for starters, thor himself doesnt have many strength feats worth mentioning, so what does it even matter if herc is as strong?

even so, billys strength can be scaled off superman. being close to clark in strength puts him far above anyone from marvel strengthwise.

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GucciBrick

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#105  Edited By GucciBrick

@phillip33 said:

@guccibrick: thanos begged for mercy, and was nearly dead. Odin put up a better fight against galactus than thanos did. Thanos’s durability is up there, but odin’s DC is powerful enough to overcome it eventually.

Thanos never attacked either galactus or odin. sure he may not have the damage output they do but he does seem to be as durable as they are. yea eventually they can win. galactus expended all his energies and couldnt put him down. that means galactus cant put him down unless he actually has the opportunity to refeed and replenish his energies right after he expends them on thanos. thanos is backed by an abstract being who would or could heal him if anyone even did actually manage to hurt him.

@gilneas said:

@emperorthanos-: What do you mean by this? What you you consider Hulk's best punches because he is clearly trying to take down Hercules here and there is no indication he is holding back.

Hulks best punches are probably the ones that have 1-3 shot guys like Thor, mangled Sentry, KO'd ZomStrange, broken Annhilis armor when he was on the same power level as Thanos, broken Onslaughts physical, form, broke through time/space/reality though admittedly these are not as quantifiable and many more.

He has never 1-3 shot thor, mangled sentry, or kod zom strange. Annihulus' armor is featless, it isn't made out of any special or unique metal. Annihulus isn't on thanoses level not even close. He broke onslaughts armor because jean grey massively amped him and allowed him do to that. He broke through time only once when he was using a special time shattering device attached to his hands. His "time/reality busting" punches didn't do jack to anybody. Hell his so called reality busting punch barely drew blood from wonderman and didnt do jack to herc.

It is or at least should be common knowledge by now that Hulk held back during the entire WWH event, he himself confirms it as well as Cho

You are twisting the meaning of holding back. Holding back doesn't mean he was pulling his punches it means he wasn't going all out with his power. Which was obvious since he was only worldbreaker during certain parts of the event, not the entire time. He was only holding back because he wasn't emitting gamma during the entire event. every character holds back all the time.

but more importantly Hercules himself confirms it right after Hulk was done punching him, he calls Hulks bluff tells him he was holding back because if he wasn't Hercules skull would have been cracked open and Hulk would have killed them all there.

feats >>> statements. anyway considering shazam is stronger and strikes harder than hulk, it looks like he will be doing what hulk failed to do there, namely he will actually tear hercules apart here using his striking power or versatility.

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Vader3

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Shazam can fly and ram into Hercules and possibly BFR

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The_Dog_of_War

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IndomitableRegal

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I mean, last time Billy faced a Hercules...

No Caption Provided

Seriously though, I see Billy winning the majority. I would argue that Hercules is stronger (or at least has some better feats in that department), but I think Shazam's speed and lightning would help overcome that. Billy wins. Eventually.

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Lvenger

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To be fair to the Shazam speed blitzing Hercules point, he doesn't do it nearly as often as other comic book speedsters nor does he use his speed as effectively as these characters do.

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GucciBrick

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@indomitableregal: Good one. and dc hercules >>>>>> marvel hercules. by far.

also the lifting heavens feat doesnt count. it was bad writing all around and obviously not legit. nobody can lift the heavens

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phillip33

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@guccibrick: thanos hit both galactus and odin with energy blasts

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Gilneas

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IndomitableRegal

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@gilneas: I know. It was meant as a joke.

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rhistr

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@the_dog_of_war

Great post. Gonna use this as a reference for the future. Not many seem to know much of Shazam's feats, me included.

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Thor-Parker

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@lvenger said:
@thor_parker82 said:

Does Shazam even use his speed properly in combat ? Since that seems to be the only argument people have going for him.

Admittedly Billy doesn't speed blitz as often or effectively as Superman, Supergirl and Flash do. So there is a chance Billy would just brawl with Hercules in character without utilising his speed properly.

Then I don't see Billy out-brawling Hercules if it comes to that.

@thor_parker82 said:

Does Shazam even use his speed properly in combat ? Since that seems to be the only argument people have going for him.

Normally Billy holds back every one of his stats, even more than SUpes does. But when he fights someone who he realizes is a serious threat, he does show good combat feats. Here is an example of him and BA brawling at blur speeds.

No Caption Provided

Blur speed is pretty unquantifiable to be honest, Iron Man has fought Mallen at blur speeds and it was for two pages, which is more than I can say for these 3 panels, Hercules is going to own him in CQC and so far it seems that's what Billy usually goes for.

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@thor_parker82: Actually it was previously mentioned in that fight that they were going much faster than the speed of sound. Also I never said anything about Herc

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Captain Marvel takes this. The only argument I can see in favour of Hercules is that he is physically stronger (even though Captain Marvel is near to Superman in terms of strength) and I do think Captain Marvel does not blitz that much in characters like Superman, Supergirl or Flash. But he is still having the speed edge and can use it defensively and for bullrushes. He does have the speed advantage no matter how much you want to belittle it. He is also having good durability tanked hits from Superman, Wonder Woman. He also has good striking able to hurt and hold his own against Superman arguably better than even Wonder Woman. He should get the majority.

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Thor-Parker

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@thor_parker82: Actually it was previously mentioned in that fight that they were going much faster than the speed of sound. Also I never said anything about Herc

Oh, now that changes things, faster than the speed of sound is pretty good, but again, how consistent is it really for Shazam to fight at those speeds ?

I know you didn't say anything about Herc, I was just pointing out that if it comes to CQC, I don't think Billy has what it takes to put Hercules down.

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@thor_parker82: Like I said, it depends on his mood. In general it is inconsistent for Billy to fight at those speeds. But when serious/needed he can consistently perform at that level. At this point it should also be stated that most o Marvel’s villains lack speed (Sabac, King Mr. Atom, Mr. Mind, Ibac, etc.) is he rarely has to go that fast to beat them.

IMO Herc would beat Billy down due to skill and mindset. But Billy had more than what it takes to win, he has been shown to be able to knock around Lobo, bloody Supes, KO Supes, strangle MMH etc.

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TheWatcherKing

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Captain Marvel takes this. The only argument I can see in favour of Hercules is that he is physically stronger (even though Captain Marvel is near to Superman in terms of strength) and I do think Captain Marvel does not blitz that much in characters like Superman, Supergirl or Flash. But he is still having the speed edge and can use it defensively and for bullrushes. He does have the speed advantage no matter how much you want to belittle it. He is also having good durability tanked hits from Superman, Wonder Woman. He also has good striking able to hurt and hold his own against Superman arguably better than even Wonder Woman. He should get the majority.

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Thor-Parker

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@thor_parker82: Like I said, it depends on his mood. In general it is inconsistent for Billy to fight at those speeds. But when serious/needed he can consistently perform at that level. At this point it should also be stated that most o Marvel’s villains lack speed (Sabac, King Mr. Atom, Mr. Mind, Ibac, etc.) is he rarely has to go that fast to beat them.

IMO Herc would beat Billy down due to skill and mindset. But Billy had more than what it takes to win, he has been shown to be able to knock around Lobo, bloody Supes, KO Supes, strangle MMH etc.

Fair enough.

Of course, don't get me wrong, Hercules will struggle big time with Shazam, I just don't see Billy winning for a majority, especially if the battle comes down to CQC which it most likely would.

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The_Dog_of_War

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@thor_parker82: @major_hellstrom:

That fight between Captain Marvel and Black Adam where they were using super-speed is non-canon.

It's from Shazam!: The New Beginning and it was retconned by The Power of Shazam!.

So, that feat isn't usable unless non-canon feats are allowed in this thread.

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deactivated-5ebcd5ad9fb95

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deactivated-5c8fd6cb3e4f4

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Hercules has thing level durability...what?

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SuperGoku17

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#125  Edited By SuperGoku17

Shazam in a close battle

Btw Shazam is stronger than superman

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deactivated-61215780523f9

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@supergoku17: He's stronger than Superman? Let's see some scans pls.

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Cognitive

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#127  Edited By Cognitive

Btw Shazam is stronger than superman

How? Striking wise Boy Scout has better feats (statements or not), and Superman had beaten him in a match of physical strength before...HECK, Billy even admitted he took down Supes only by the element of surprise + Clark's vulnerability to magic, and later stated the world needs Supes more than him.

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The_Dog_of_War

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@major_hellstrom: The Power of Shazam! graphic novel changed Captain Marvel's origin story, and thus his previous origin story Shazam!: The New Beginning was retconned.

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deactivated-5ebcd5ad9fb95

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@the_dog_of_war: I know that it was re-told. But in comics, especially Marvel, that doesn’t necessarily mean that it is non/canon unless it was mentioned as such.

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Lvenger

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Shazam in a close battle

Btw Shazam is stronger than superman

Proof for that claim? At best Post Crisis Captain Marvel was considered an equal to Superman, never his superior If you're basing this on the Public Enemies scan where Superman says toe to toe Captain Marvel has the advantage, that fight ended with Superman tossing CM away and reverting him back to Billy Batson. Not to mention Clark held his own against Black Adam who in his own words hit harder than Captain Marvel.

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@lvenger said:
@supergoku17 said:

Shazam in a close battle

Btw Shazam is stronger than superman

Proof for that claim? At best Post Crisis Captain Marvel was considered an equal to Superman, never his superior If you're basing this on the Public Enemies scan where Superman says toe to toe Captain Marvel has the advantage, that fight ended with Superman tossing CM away and reverting him back to Billy Batson. Not to mention Clark held his own against Black Adam who in his own words hit harder than Captain Marvel.

You do know who you are talking to, right?

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Chimeroid

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Hercules has thing level durability...what?

Let him be, as you can see, i dropped it. No matter how many or how powerful feats i show, he finds "reasons" to disregard them. He is also not above lying or cropping scans. So just ignore.

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Nucleon

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I'll say Shazam. Hercules is a strong guy. But Shazam is not that far behind from Superman in strength. He is having a considerable speed advantage. He also strikes harder. While Hercules fighting skill and Captain Marvels fighting skill might not be equal. The Captain should get the majority.

Oh, I disagree with pretty much everything up there, but I have a particular gripe with the assertion that CM strikes harder. You know that Herc's got the adamantine mace here, do you? It's like if there are two men of comparable size fighting, but one has a lead pipe - it's quite an advantage in the hard-hitting domain, don't you think?

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Kevd4wg

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I have a question, does Shazam have any really good feats that aren't scaling from Superman?

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Nucleon

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@guccibrick: thanos begged for mercy, and was nearly dead. Odin put up a better fight against galactus than thanos did. Thanos’s durability is up there, but odin’s DC is powerful enough to overcome it eventually.

Pretty much exclusively when he does that one trick he does with the lightning and Superman. Anyway, it's been proven that Herc has the necessary combat speed to fight speedsters (which CP isn't).

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@lvenger said:
@supergoku17 said:

Shazam in a close battle

Btw Shazam is stronger than superman

Proof for that claim? At best Post Crisis Captain Marvel was considered an equal to Superman, never his superior If you're basing this on the Public Enemies scan where Superman says toe to toe Captain Marvel has the advantage, that fight ended with Superman tossing CM away and reverting him back to Billy Batson. Not to mention Clark held his own against Black Adam who in his own words hit harder than Captain Marvel.

You do know who you are talking to, right?

Don't you think that's a little uncalled for?

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Lvenger

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@lvenger said:
@supergoku17 said:

Shazam in a close battle

Btw Shazam is stronger than superman

Proof for that claim? At best Post Crisis Captain Marvel was considered an equal to Superman, never his superior If you're basing this on the Public Enemies scan where Superman says toe to toe Captain Marvel has the advantage, that fight ended with Superman tossing CM away and reverting him back to Billy Batson. Not to mention Clark held his own against Black Adam who in his own words hit harder than Captain Marvel.

You do know who you are talking to, right?

Oh yeah I'm familiar with this guy.

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SuperGoku17

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#139  Edited By SuperGoku17
No Caption Provided

@lvenger said:
@supergoku17 said:

Shazam in a close battle

Btw Shazam is stronger than superman

Proof for that claim? At best Post Crisis Captain Marvel was considered an equal to Superman, never his superior If you're basing this on the Public Enemies scan where Superman says toe to toe Captain Marvel has the advantage, that fight ended with Superman tossing CM away and reverting him back to Billy Batson. Not to mention Clark held his own against Black Adam who in his own words hit harder than Captain Marvel.

Black adam never said that superman did and black adam took all of supermans punches that he hit him with and got up you have no idea what you are talking about.

Im not basing it on just that and there you go again assuming what you think ill say.

Im basing it on feats

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Nucleon

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I mean, last time Billy faced a Hercules...

No Caption Provided

Seriously though, I see Billy winning the majority. I would argue that Hercules is stronger (or at least has some better feats in that department), but I think Shazam's speed and lightning would help overcome that. Billy wins. Eventually.

DC's Herc's a shameful disgrace. He once dressed as Wonder Woman and was known as "Wonder Man" for a time. Don't compare Marvel gods to DC's faire-valoir ones.

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SuperGoku17

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@major_hellstrom: And do you know how rude it is to talk shit about someone because they have a different opinion from you.

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Lvenger

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@lvenger said:
@supergoku17 said:

Shazam in a close battle

Btw Shazam is stronger than superman

Proof for that claim? At best Post Crisis Captain Marvel was considered an equal to Superman, never his superior If you're basing this on the Public Enemies scan where Superman says toe to toe Captain Marvel has the advantage, that fight ended with Superman tossing CM away and reverting him back to Billy Batson. Not to mention Clark held his own against Black Adam who in his own words hit harder than Captain Marvel.

Black adam never said that superman did and black adam took all of supermans punches that he hit him with and got up you have no idea what you are talking about.

Im not basing it on just that and there you go again assuming what you think ill say.

Im basing it on feats

Exactly, Clark said that and he's taken punches from Captain Marvel before so he knows if someone can hit harder.

Then provide feats of Billy hitting with moon to planet level striking force. I'll wait for you to find scans I'm unaware of for the character. Was planning to make a post of his feats today.

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Nucleon

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#143  Edited By Nucleon

@thor_parker82 said:

Does Shazam even use his speed properly in combat ? Since that seems to be the only argument people have going for him.

Normally Billy holds back every one of his stats, even more than SUpes does. But when he fights someone who he realizes is a serious threat, he does show good combat feats. Here is an example of him and BA brawling at blur speeds.

No Caption Provided

How fast can they go at it if they find the time to be so long-winded? Time yourself saying what's uttered in panel, and you'll find enough time to place more than two punches I am pretty sure.

Maybe they vibrate themselves in a more defensive posture, rather than really speeding up.

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@kevd4wg said:

I have a question, does Shazam have any really good feats that aren't scaling from Superman?

Hmm, what about scaling from Black Adam :P?

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Going with Shazam. Speed and flight advantage, also being in the same ballpark as Supes in strength puts him above Hercules.

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IndomitableRegal

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@nucleon said:
@indomitableregal said:

I mean, last time Billy faced a Hercules...

No Caption Provided

Seriously though, I see Billy winning the majority. I would argue that Hercules is stronger (or at least has some better feats in that department), but I think Shazam's speed and lightning would help overcome that. Billy wins. Eventually.

DC's Herc's a shameful disgrace. He once dressed as Wonder Woman and was known as "Wonder Man" for a time. Don't compare Marvel gods to DC's faire-valoir ones.

Are people having that much trouble realizing the scan was a joke? It's not even canon lol. And I'll compare who I please. In fact, DC Ares >>>> Marvel Ares.

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Kevd4wg

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@kevd4wg said:

I have a question, does Shazam have any really good feats that aren't scaling from Superman?

Hmm, what about scaling from Black Adam :P?

Lol

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#148  Edited By Nucleon

@indomitableregal: If DC's Ares was anything past theorical power, he wouldn't have his ass handed to him by Wonder Woman all of the time. Seriously, he is the DC universe's Worf.

Marvel Ares, which I agree is yet not much, would chop his head off in anger (and that would be his existance highest feat).

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Nucleon

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#149  Edited By Nucleon

@guccibrick said:

@indomitableregal: Good one. and dc hercules >>>>>> marvel hercules. by far.

also the lifting heavens feat doesnt count. it was bad writing all around and obviously not legit. nobody can lift the heavens

DC Hercules is a subversient loser that Amazons have tamed. And you compare that castrated character to Marvel Hercules, who actually pay respect to this legend of humanity? Ha ha ha. Tells so much about you.

Also, you don't get to decide what counts or what doesn't, beyond for your own governance.

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@supergoku17: I never talk sh!t about someone solely because they have a different opinion than me.