Battle of the Week: Robin vs. Hit-Girl

@randomsid: I find remarkably illogical that you claim CS is a moron, despite the fact that you have somehow come to the conclusion that Hit Girl is faster than Damian, who has both dodged turret fire and lasers (>>>> bullets). He is much faster than her.

Honestly, it's been repeatedly shown and cited the level of opposition he faces is far superior. If all you have in return is Hit Girl shooting body guards and thugs, then you have no argument by this point.

@frozen:

it makes you a fanboy to THINK robin stomps.. acknowledging would specify that its a fact

Love Casey Jones, but he's lacking in feats. Hit-Girl has more feats than he does and I'd dispute she's more formidable. Melee combat with blunt weapons? He'd probably take it in the end. Standard gear? I view her as a much better challenge.

And, like I said before, using a Ninja Turtle has crossed my mind ;)

Proof that he wouldn't stomp? Anything other than taking out groups with fodder enemies? If you're comparing Mindy's skill to Damian's by saying that she has taken out fodders, then that's like me saying that I'm as skilled as Black Panther because I have taken out a group of 2 year old kids.

@k4tzm4n:

I'll suggest Hunter Rose as a contender for Damian Wayne.

He fought batman in a canon crossover IIRC....Not fair.

In which he lost.

EDIT:

Looking back through my image gallery, Hunter did lose only to Batman's superior gear.

When it came to H2H Grendel was on par with, not subpar. You're right.

Taking a minute from editing the next installation to my super hero novel THE FIRST: EVO UPRISING to weigh in on this discussion (yeah it’s a shameless plug)

I know a bit about Damian Wayne aka Robin and I know a bit about Mindy McCready aka Hit Girl, both are exceptionally gifted for their age.

After reading through various posts, I skipped the ones that were clearly meaningless fanboy or girl reactions not objectively looking at the argument, and listened to those that took the time to weigh with objective solid arguments.

First of all, to say that Robin can one shot someone like Hit Girl is not only a fan boy statement, it’s a stupid statement. A statement from someone who knows nothing about combat, or who has never been in a combat situation to make an objective statement.

This is a little girl with a serious body count who’s taken on both criminal and law enforcement in a real world situation comic book. Yes she was trained by her father, who was an ex-cop, but the amount of damage, death, and carnage she’s was about to surmount during the Kick-Ass run is extremely impressive and should not be overlooked. For a ten year old girl to kick a plus two hundred pound man across the room with no super human enhancements is an impressive feat. To cut a full grown human being in half for her size is an impressive feat, and to drop twenty-two trained guards without one licking off one shot is an extremely impressive feat.

What is also not taken into account is her durability for such a young age, and her mind state. She’s a clinic psychopath with no remorse and apparently no give.

I’m not running through Damian’s history, we all know it, his mother is one of the greatest fighters in the DC Universe, his grandfather is Ra's al Ghul, his father is Batman. He was born fighting the second his mother spat him out of the womb.

I think what is frustrating about listening to some of the statements in these battles (and why I officially shy away from them in the forums) is that NO ONE IS LISTENING TO THE RULES.

There was nothing that said this was taking place in the DC Universe where Damien obviously has the advantage; neither did it say it was taking place in the Kick-Ass Universe.

They're fighting in a generic downtown city setting. It's unpopulated, at night and all standard city lights remain on. Assume they start roughly 150 feet apart and visible. However, there is a good amount of cover in the location (parked vehicles, bus stops and such) and the entire area is on limits (alleys, rooftops, building interiors, the sewer, etc).

Based on this very level playing field, you have to objectively decide based on their skill sets (which includes feats), and their mental state, which is a factor, can they defeat one another.

Is Mindy going to hit Damian from 150 away? Probably not, he’s dodged bullets at a much closer range.

Is Damian going to hit Mindy with his batrangs, or whatever other throwing weapons he might have from 150 feet away? Probably not because she has also been known to dodge bullets at a close range.

Also remember people they’re both going to be wearing some type of body armor during this fight adding to their durability.

So they’re now going to have to find a way to close the gap on one another.

Both are going to try to out stealth the other while trying to get close enough to take the other out. Chances are as Mindy gets closer she’s going to try and make every shot count, she’s going to observe and realize that Damian is not your run of the mill thug or punk that she can blow away with one shot, so she’s going to conserve her ammo looking for actual kill shots.

Damian is going to do the same, after he realizes his first two batrangs either miss her completely from such a long distance or are shot out of the air.

Let us not forget Damian is armed with smoke booms and concussion grenades, while Mindy will be armed with ACTUAL grenades, so (BLEEP) will be blow up.

Now they’ve closed the gap and are face to face with one another.

Going back to what I said earlier Mindy unlike Damian is a psychopath, because of that her threshold for pain and abuse is crazy. The beatings she’s taken would kill and critically injure any child her age. She is capable of taking it, and dishing it out.

Damian also has a high threshold for pain, and he has the capability to kill, HOWEVER he’s been around his father and Dick Grayson who has done their best to beat into him that murder is wrong, and through this he has grown somewhat of a conscience which we’re seen displayed in a couple of situations.

Damian to my knowledge as never killed a woman before, yet alone a little girl. Mindy has a “no retreat no surrender” Spartan mentality. Does Damian have it within him after spending time with Bruce and Dick to kill Mindy who is going to keep coming until she kills him, or he kills her?

I’m not sure.

I’m going with too close to call on this one.

For those that believe Damian would beat Mindy, there’s nothing wrong with siding with Robin.

But to come on here and say that he would one shot her, or dominate the fight; you’ve either never read a Kick-Ass comic book, not truly looking at this objectively, or both.

First, I didn't say that anyone was a moron. I said that consistent lowballing of a character when you have been shown their feats and they are NOT low by any standard, makes you LOOK like a moron.

Again, lasers in the real world are faster than bullets, unless there is a panel in that exact comic saying how fast those lasers are traveling, we can only assume their speed. Lasers in comics and cartoons and movies have consistently been shown to be different speeds, and yes, at times slower than bullets.

Allow me to reiterate.

It does not make you a fanboy for saying a character with far superior feats in addition to having nearly every conceivable advantage (Damian) stomps a character with less impressive feats. The evidence has been cited. It is your choice whether you will accept it or not.

@blue_son: Thank you, that is pretty much what I have been trying to say, you just worded it better.

@k4tzm4n: I'd read that Casey had pretty good recent feats. But now that I think of it, Damian with gear vs Raph from TMNT would be awesome. And, TMNT can generate steam. They're popular.

This is the post I wrote for this.

Nobody is lowballing Hit Girl. But putting thugs/security guard fodder into perspective against Damian makes her look absolutely pathetic.

People need to stop thinking it's lowballing just because there is a difference in level of opponents.

I suppose I should chip in my post but most of it has been covered, nonetheless.

Damian absolutely stomps this.

He is vastly superior in nearly every conceivable physical area. The idea that because both are peak humans in their respective universes and thus, Damian would be ''not be able to do this'' or whatever is a nonsense argument. By that train of illogic, Christopher Nolan's Batman can match Comic Book Batman because he is also a peak human in his own respective right, which is just completely illogical. The former would get stomped because it is a more realistic interpretation. If Damian were to exist in Hit Girl's Universe, he would be a superhuman --- and thus, if we are to make adequate comparisons, we must contrast power scaling. A peak human can achieve physical feats that a peak human would not be capable of doing in a movie; if you are to fairly make a comparison, then we must be objective with comparison. If one peak human can accomplish a striking feat which another peak human from another universe cannot, you will use that feat as evidence for superiority. This is mainly the reason why comic book peak humans often stomp movie peak humans and other brands of comic peak humans which are intended to be more grounded.

That's pretty much the reason the Battle Mods locked Damian vs Hit Girl thread for being a mismatch - there is a significant difference in feats.

In terms of feats, Damian et al were briefly holding off Ninja's who knew every single martial art style in the world in Nightwing #138, he trashed Earth 2 Huntress in World's Finest #6, who in turn has snapped a tree in half in the World's Finest #22 flashback, he slaughtered Man-Bats who have displayed multi-ton strength and briefly held his own and tanked hits from Heretic (who is vastly superior to anyone in the Kick Ass Universe by a significant margin). Hit Girl's ''last resort'' can become a no-limits fallacy. There is almost no evidence to suggest that Hit Girl can successfully use that against someone significantly faster than herself - the vast majority of Damian's opponents (even Ninja fodder) outclass Mother Russia. Damian decapitating someone so fast that a room full of people being unable to see it is akin to the 'last resort' - the difference is that it's typical for Damian. This is also the kid who in less than one minute, mastered a no-kill pressure-point after simply viewing it (much like his father).

By contrast, all I've seen for Hit Girl is her killing thugs and guards. While that's not necessarily bad, in contrast to Damian who fights and defeats opponents who would register as super-humans in the Kick Ass Universe, it's entirely unimpressive. Shooting a bunch of thugs does not necessitate that she can do the same against Damian. While Hit Girl's best speed feat may be dodging a bullet (still not sure whether she's done that in the comic, but I'll assume she has based on what I've read) still pales in comparison to Damian, who not only has dodged gunfire/turret fire on a consistent basis but also dodged lasers. A laser is multiple times faster than any human firearm so simply listing the number of guns she has or killing a number of thugs with X many rounds is not a valid argument.

I'm also not sure why Damian's morals will matter. Does he have a degree of morals? Sure. But is he more ruthless than the rest of Bat-Family? Yes. People bring up Hit-Girl's ruthlessness as if it's a reliable advantage, but it isn't. The vast majority of Damian's opponents also try to kill him. Damian's got on just fine beating super-humans and martial-arts masters who have attempted to kill him. It does not lessen his skill.

And the last point I'll add is that ''Hit Girl being Punisher'' analogy is not a legitimate comparison. The Punisher can contend with street-levellers because he has consistently proven that he can contend with them. There are a number of showings of Punisher tagging super-humans and martial-artists over the years, opposed to standard fodder (for example, gangsters). He's even tagged the god-damn Spider-Man in War Zone, but make what you will of that.

To summarize, if we look at the feats comparatively, not only is Damian much stronger, faster, more durable and the better fighter (also has meta-human dropping gear, as previously noted by CS) --- it is clear that the general level of his opponents is much higher than Hit Girl's, to a significant degree (and I cannot stress this enough). The evidence is all there.

That's Bat-Genes for you folks!

@nickthedevil: The only gear Batman used was a smoke pellet. Grendel was going for the kill with his forked blade.

The fight would be classified as melee, as Hunter was armed with a spear/halberd, weapons made to counter one hand blades weapons. While Bats only had gauntlets.

Hunter would stomp any robin if he had his staff, pure hand to hand would be dicey against Grayson aands stomp for Cass.

He also beat Bullseye H2H too.

@captain_batman_ftw: But, those kids were pretty skilled mate. The way they drank their juice boxes is on pair with league of Assian Ninjas.

In case it wasn't clear enough in the OP, Damian Wayne just has regular batarangs and a grappling gun/line. Sorry for any potential confusion.

@frozen: You think Casey Jones would be a better match then Hit-Girl? Hit-Girl can do everything Casey can, but has better physicals, lesser morals, and better weaponry. There isn't a single version of Casey that is above Hit-Girl as a combatant.

This is coming from a HUGE Casey Jones fan too.

@tparks: Cartoon Casey on the original cartoon was very bad***.

@tparks: Read post #412, I updated my stance with ''now that I think of it''.

If Casey Jones is below/near Hit Girl level, then Damian will stomp him in a mismatch. It'd be better to have Batman Damian (if possible) or another matchup.

I loved him on that, but I don't remember him doing anything more then the Turtles did.

While I don't agree that Damian stomps Hit-Girl or Casey Jones, I completely agree with your reasoning.

@tparks: Dude that's enough the original toon turtles had super strength, incredible durability, could react to laser beams, punch robots, etc.

Yeah, he's way too high for Damian. BTW for all y'all Grendel fans I updated Hunter's respect thread for the Shadow series.

Edit: Out of the various Grendels, Christine Spar might be a good match for Damian, but no one is going to know who she is.

@comicstooge Damian throws explosives and gas. Would they count?

No, see K4tz's response above. That restriction on his gear is what makes this a fair fight.

It doesn't make a difference tbh.

Hit-Girl rolfcopterstomps Damien so badly that Batman adopts her and begs her to become Robin.

Wrong forum.

This is the forum you're looking for - http://www.comicvine.com/forums/fan-fic-8/

I bet Damian Robin would whip Black Widows fine ass, and thats saying something.

Damian slaughters.

Really like Hit-Girl. But she is going to lose 100 out of 100 in this one. Not even a fair contest.

S'all g.

I like how nobody read my post or countered my points in it. Here it is if you haven't read it yet:

Why are people treating this like it's a godstomp H2H fight?

It's clearly not. At all. The OP and K4tzm4n himself made this abundantly clear. This is not and will never be a hand to hand fight. Hit-Girl has loads of weapons and a far away starting distance for a reason.

Frank D'Amico?

Why the hell are people even talking about him? He has absolutely nothing to do with this thread or its characters.

Damian's Disadvantages.

His morals, seriously nobody even attempted to counter this. He will clearly hold back on Hit-Girl, just like he did against Scarlet. And because of it, he got his *ss kicked by Scarlet.

Gallery

Not only does Hit-Girl also use tasers and knives, she uses machine guns, handguns, grenades, and remote explosives. And if featless untrained Scarlet can tank Damian's punches, Hit-Girl sure as hell can.

His lack of range. He only has basic batarangs and a grapple line. Hit-Girl has guns. He is at a very big disadvantage because of this. He has good reaction, he still has not shown to be able to dodge a good shooter. LOL at dodging a turrent, that like has anything to do with a good shooter.

He is an unprofessional baby. Seriously, Nobody even tried to deny this. He is constantly running into trouble and getting in over his head, This is even the cause of his death. Not to mention I have seen him twice CRY FOR HIS MOMMY in fights. Hit-Girl has never been shown to act so stupid and childish.

HE HAS BALLS. Yes, this is a disadvantage. Mindy aims for dudes junk all the damn time. I could post a montage of it, but I don't know if it would be against the rules. Mindy gets one good shot in with anything (Guns, knives, even just a fist) Damian is going down.

Thugs are nothing to Damian?

They are nothing to Mindy either, she LOLstomps them all the time in huge numbers. The one time Mindy met her match was when her opponent was a metahuman, with prep, and had studied her moves, and Mindy still found a way to win. And I have seen Damian require saving from fodder gun users before, Batman had to disarm the guy or Damian would have been shot.

The Fight:

Mindy has so much variety it's ridiculous, while on the other hand Damian is severely limited in this match up. Mindy could riddle him full of bullets from this range. Say Damian closes the distance, Mindy could end this with a grenage or remote explosive. Lets say Damian gets even closer, Mindy has swords and knives, while Damian only has throwing equipment. Damian will hold back and Mindy will not. Mindy will bite his nose off, slice of his junk, and behead him with his own batarang.

@randomsid good job at debating for Hit-Girl when I couldn't. And thanks for saying I know my stuff. Also Hit-Girl kills 29+ guys before they can react, not 22. If you check the body count in the splash page with the cops there are more deadbodys in and around the water fountain. BTW you earned a follow.

Not a stomp as I thought, the polls won't care though.

Maybe Damien should fight Snake Eyes, Leonardo, Grendel, or The Crow. It shard to pit this kid against marvel or DC charcters as the kid would likely get stomped in polls. More obscure comic characters may be fair.

Hard to pit this kid up.

I think Hit-Girl vs Rorschach might be a closer match up.

@allstarsuperman said:

Why are people treating this like it's a godstomp H2H fight?

It's clearly not. At all. The OP and K4tzm4n himself made this abundantly clear. This is not and will never be a hand to hand fight. Hit-Girl has loads of weapons and a far away starting distance for a reason.

Frank D'Amico?

Why the hell are people even talking about him? He has absolutely nothing to do with this thread or its characters.

Damian's Disadvantages.

His morals, seriously nobody even attempted to counter this. He will clearly hold back on Hit-Girl, just like he did against Scarlet. And because of it, he got his *ss kicked by Scarlet.

Gallery

Not only does Hit-Girl also use tasers and knives, she uses machine guns, handguns, grenades, and remote explosives. And if featless untrained Scarlet can tank Damian's punches, Hit-Girl sure as hell can.

His lack of range. He only has basic batarangs and a grapple line. Hit-Girl has guns. He is at a very big disadvantage because of this. He has good reaction, he still has not shown to be able to dodge a good shooter. LOL at dodging a turrent, that like has anything to do with a good shooter.

He is an unprofessional baby. Seriously, Nobody even tried to deny this. He is constantly running into trouble and getting in over his head, This is even the cause of his death. Not to mention I have seen him twice CRY FOR HIS MOMMY in fights. Hit-Girl has never been shown to act so stupid and childish.

HE HAS BALLS. Yes, this is a disadvantage. Mindy aims for dudes junk all the damn time. I could post a montage of it, but I don't know if it would be against the rules. Mindy gets one good shot in with anything (Guns, knives, even just a fist) Damian is going down.

Thugs are nothing to Damian?

They are nothing to Mindy either, she LOLstomps them all the time in huge numbers. The one time Mindy met her match was when her opponent was a metahuman, with prep, and had studied her moves, and Mindy still found a way to win. And I have seen Damian require saving from fodder gun users before, Batman had to disarm the guy or Damian would have been shot.

The Fight:

Mindy has so much variety it's ridiculous, while on the other hand Damian is severely limited in this match up. Mindy could riddle him full of bullets from this range. Say Damian closes the distance, Mindy could end this with a grenage or remote explosive. Lets say Damian gets even closer, Mindy has swords and knives, while Damian only has throwing equipment. Damian will hold back and Mindy will not. Mindy will bite his nose off, slice of his junk, and behead him with his own batarang.

@randomsid good job at debating for Hit-Girl when I couldn't. And thanks for saying I know my stuff. Also Hit-Girl kills 29+ guys before they can react, not 22. If you check the body count in the splash page with the cops there are more deadbodys in and around the water fountain. BTW you earned a follow.

He held back against Scarlet because he felt guilty about not saving her from Pyg. Nice try though.

Regardless, it's not as if Damian didn't improve greatly. He had only just started being Robin under Dick. By the time he was warming up to Bruce as Batman, he could hold his own against Tim Drake.

LMAO, the 'unprofessional baby' comment and the fact he has male body parts are just silly arguments.

Mother Russia wasn't metahuman. The only way she "found a way to win" was when MR got distracted by Todd and Marty and Midy cheap-shotted her. She would've died otherwise.

In contrast, Damian died fighting a guy who beat up Batman and Nightwing, after he was shot and hit with multiple arrows.

Damian's accuracy with his batarangs is actually pretty impressive. He hit a small target (the button) while sliding and heavily drugged and he was capable of almost perfect accuracy while dodging turret fire :

Gallery

Her accuracy isn't worth diddly-squat consider she's never hit anyone who could move like Damian.

Damian fights people willing to kill him on a daily basis and owns them. Hit-Girl fighting dirty is no advantage.

In any case, what can Hit-Girl possibly do on a guy who's snuck up on Jason Todd, if Damian decided to use stealth?

Nothing, that's what.

@allstarsuperman: A lot of the gear discussion has been focused on the distance part of the fight, but you're right, it's a big factor that she has swords and he doesn't, if it comes to H2H. That makes a big difference not only to how dangerous each strike is, but reach. Reach is pretty important.

By the way I thought that one scan in the respect thread, where she kills the dude with the rolling pin, was nuts! How awesome. Hit Girl is not to be messed with.

I'm still not totally persuaded she takes the majority, but I'm at least on 50/50.

@comicstooge said:

Mother Russia wasn't metahuman. The only way she "found a way to win" was when MR got distracted by Todd and Marty and Midy cheap-shotted her. She would've died otherwise.

Damian's accuracy with his batarangs is actually pretty impressive. He hit a small target (the button) while sliding and heavily drugged and he was capable of almost perfect accuracy while dodging turret fire.

In any case, what can Hit-Girl possibly do on a guy who's snuck up on Jason Todd, if Damian decided to use stealth?

Nothing, that's what.

First, Mother Russia most definitely is a Metahuman. No normal human could do the things she has been shown to do. Second, already been over this. It doesn't matter that Mother Russia was distracted, this falls under training of which Hit Girl has plenty. A trained fighter does not let their guard down just because there is a distraction. Mother Russia did and Hit Girl took advantage of it.

Damian's accuracy against a button doesn't mean much. Hit girl is a bullet timer, she could EASILY dodge batarangs which fly much slower than bullets.

And your big finish is Damian sneaking up on someone who was dead tired, let their guard down because they were in a safe house and you assume hitgirl couldn't do this? She has had MUCH better stealth showings than that. You would know that if you actually looked at the CAV I posted a link to.

@comicstooge: You win.

Thank you for showing the difference in level of feats and why this thread was locked. Honestly still don't know why people think shooting thugs and body-guards compares to multi-ton Man Bats, Heretic and Ninja's adept to every single martial arts style on DC Earth.

Lol.

Fictional humans can do a lot more than normal humans. Unless you think a little girl can really kill 20 unarmed thugs. Well, she doesn't have backup here, so she can't rely on Todd and Marty to walk in and distract Damian, so that point is moot.

Damian used his grapple to hit NoBody, someone who's given Batman a good fight. He can tag Hit-Girl.

Jason was trained by some of the greatest ninjas in the world for years. It stands to reason he'd have had plenty of time to learn to detect stealthy opponents. And I hardly see why he was all that tired. Simply wanting to relax doesn't mean he's incapable of fighting effectively.

Hit-Girl has no feats to match avoiding strikes from, disarming and slugging Jason Todd. None of her feats come close.

In any case, Damian snuck into an embassy. That's a lot more impressive than sneaking up on drug dealers or a teenage boy or a prison with sloppy security.

Really... 21% of people on this site think Hit-Girl can beat Damian.

Might not been a reply to me or anything.

But I'd like to throw out a suggestion or two :D

Maybe for his next match ....

Damian vs. Taskmaster!

An if you do fights between characters of the same universe ..

Damian vs. Cassandra Cain!

If not then Damian vs. Shang Chi!

(Shang-Chi can use some loving once in a while :P)

I'm sorry but all of these people would wreck Damian.....

Maybe, maybe not.

But some other possibles that come to mind ...

Black Panther

Captain America

Elektra

Daredevil

Moon Knight

An I forgot to mention this one initially.

But since some people mentioned TMNT.

I figured Karai vs. Damian?

@dark_stranger: I think all of those people are way too much for Damian. The kid is around tim drake level.

I don't know much about Karai though.

I actually agree. Kick-Ass and Watchmen characters have more in common.

That and I'd like to see more Watchmen characters used in fights (non-movie versions).

@rick_grayson said:

Really... 21% of people on this site think Hit-Girl can beat Damian.

The one's backing Damian have yet to show me anything that Hit-Girl could not replicate. If they did that, I just might change my mind. But so far they have yet to show him better at stealth, they have yet to show him faster, they have yet to show him more accurate, they have yet to show him better at dodging. The only thing they have even come close to showing is being better at H2H and even that is debatable going by feats alone.

The lowballing is rather ridiculous. It's one thing to think that another character could win, it's idiotic to think that Damian could one shot her. It's also foolish to think that she stands no chance considering her feats. It is also silly to lowball her feats claiming she was only fighting fodder when Damian has needed help fighting fodder plenty of times.

@randomsid: It is not idiotic if you actually objectively read the feats. His feats of taking out Man-Bats and Ninja's who know every martial-arts style on the planet have been presented to you and you have ignored them. In addition to this, you ignored the Heretic feat, scans of Damian dodging turret fire and catching projectiles from a freaking Talon. Furthermore, the battle mods did lock this thread on the basis of it being a mismatch.

Seriously, I've said it waay too many times so I'll bow out after this post but you have constantly speculated and attempted to rationalize (and fail at that) that thugs and security guard fodder are comparable. They're not. Those backing Damian have actually cited FAR superior feats.

Agreed.

Though why non-movie versions?

I tell you what, all of you Damian Wayne supporters, take into account the setting and the gear available for this fight. Take into account the fact that Hit-Girl has been shown to run 70+ miles per hour, and able to reach those speeds almost instantly. Take into account that she effortlessly dodges bullets. Take into account that they start 150 feet apart. Now, tell me how Damian is even supposed to touch her. All he has is his batarangs and his grapple. The Batarangs fly much slower than a bullet. And the grapple would have to be reloaded or he would have to carry multiple of them to be able to use it more than once. She is so much faster than him in running that he could not close the distance on foot. How does he even touch her? She has all the gear she needs, from guns, to explosives, to flash bangs, to swords and knives. And she has even mentioned that her outfit is Kevlar down to her underwear. Explain how he even touches her. He would have to make it into a hand to hand fight, how does he do it?

About to head to work, but I'll check back when I get home to see if anyone has taken my challenge.

After reading the debates here, i go with hitgirl