Battle Of The Week Results: Namor VS Savage Dragon

@wyldsong: I don't have too many scans on this computer, so I'll be using mainly words and scenarios in various fights for Namor. I'm just laying down a case, I won't have too much time to debate this topic, so I want people to take it for what it is, and I will mention some of Namor's inconsistencies in this post as well.

Strength

Namor's physical abilities are dependent on his hydration level. The guy is a walking Gatorade commercial. Among his attributes is a degree of strength. Namor is one of Marvel's oldest and most powerful characters before becoming stagnant as everyone grew around him, however, a few writers every so often come around and throw him a couple of bones. His strength has enabled him to throw a tank across a distance and take the wing off of Tony Stark's 747. He has lifted hundreds of thousands of tons, entire ocean liners, and so on. He has caught Kang's spaceship out of thin air and held it.

I know you spoke of Dragon slapping the ground and causing a building to collapse. It is indeed impressive. Namor himself was once pinned down by Magneto IIRC and slammed both fists into the ground and shook the entire island and destroyed the surrounding area.

Namor has thrown a tank through Tony Stark's 747 and completely no sold a tank shell, which he should be able to.

Namor at one point was able to rip the Silver Surfer off of his board, tank a blast from him, and then sent him flying with a punch.

In more modern times, he was able to surprise blitz Luke Cage and throw him in the water. Cage was seen fighting in the water later, but he looked briefly out at that point. He also one shotted She-Hulk from behind with Luke Cage. Granted both of these are cheap shots, he did lay out 2 characters with high durability. Then he proceeded to crush a hill, ground top or whatever with a clash from the Thing, the same Thing that was able to hold his own against Colossonaut before Colossus took him out of the Blue Area of the moon so he couldn't breathe.

Wolverine thinks Namor crushed all of his organs in his body.

I'll post more with his striking and such based on the levels of people he has harmed.

Durability

As far as durability goes, Namor I have come to conclusion that he can get knocked around by weaker characters but I don't think that necessarily means they will beat or it is really harming him to the point of KO unless he is getting weaker due to being dehydrated or out of the water for an extended period of time.

I will say Namor has gotten one hit punched from Thor on one occasion, but Namor has been multiple battles with Thor over the years and has had some extended battles with him. Namor has tanked a mini-nuke to the face, hits from Hercules, the Hulk, a goodbye from Blackbolt and a fall from a very large height, hits from the Sentry, the Thing, Silver Surfer at his classic levels and so on. One of my favorite feats and fights showed off Namor's strength and durability was when he was in the Negative Zone with Rogers, Cyclops, and Blaastar and he was dehydrated and the Negative Zone was driving him crazy, he was getting staggered by Rogers but never stopped coming, supplementing my . He tanks a brief no visor blast from Cyclops, and tanks hits from Blaastar. He also does a solid job at fighting all three of them and Hope Summers as well who mimicked his powers IIRC. A lot of these feats will be shown in the battles section of people he has fought.

Speed

Just a brief snippet on Namor's speed. For a brick, Namor is pretty agile.

Dodging sonic attacks.

Dodging blasts from the Human Torch.

Caught torpedos.

Tags Speed Demon.

Namor has his share of characters dodging like Spider-Man, T'Challa, Captain America, Wolverine etc, but Namor is pretty quick for a brick. He himself has tagged those characters before as well.

Fights

Thor: Namor has been infamously one shot by the God of Thunder but he has tanked hits from him and hurt him on a couple of occasions. Namor has even managed to take Thor to the water, something he has done with characters like Hercules, Hulk, Iron Man, and the Silver Surfer. He is able to tank hits, and he is able to hurt Thor with his blows. Thor is the character that has sent shockwaves to shatter moons, damage the Hulk, arm wrestle Hercules to the point it almost knocks a planet off orbit. Thor has tanked hits from Silver Surfer, the Hulk, Hercules, Thanos (albeit a few), a headbutt that sent a shockwave for a hundred miles. I'm not saying Thor will lose to Namor, even Namor admits Thor is above him, but Namor has hurt him and has shown he can muscle him to the water and take his hits.

Hercules: Namor has tanked blows from Hercules, and used the island to his advantage and has taken Hercules to water. Hercules has knocked the Hulk back, stalemated Thor in physical abilities etc. Again, I do think Namor would lose to Herc for a majority but consistently he has put up close fights to Herc over the years.

Wonder Man: Simon back in the day was a bit weaker but still powerful and Namor held his own against him, the Whizzer, and Beast before Whizzer allowed Simon to get in a KO Blow. Simon himself has been able to hurt Thor and throw down with Hercules. He may be a jobber at times but he is a powerhouse himself, and it shows Namor being able to hold off a strong opponent while also dealing with other distractions.

The Hulk

Namor managed to beat the Hulk back in the day, but the Hulk has since gotten stronger. Still, even back then, the Hulk was a massive powerhouse and Namor showed he could get a strong opponent to a location that suits him. Namor has also tanked his blows and hurt him.

The Thing: Namor has one shot the Pineapple Thing, Ben at considered one of his strongest incarnations for the longest time. Thing has definitely grown since then but again, that Thing was able to best the Grey Hulk. Since then they have had numerous fights, but just goes to show that at times Namor is a powerhouse.

The Sentry: Last on my list, is the Sentry. Sentry was able to stalemate WWH, arguable context from people with his ability to calm Hulk, but him not being at his best mental state either. He has staggered the Sentry and taken his blows. He was shown to be losing but he got face planted and just got up fine the next panel. The order is a bit mixed up but just bits and pieces from their fight to obey the scan rule. Scan on the right is their mid battle, but scans 1 and 2 should be flipped. It's Sentry planting Namor but gets back up right after.

Environmental Edge

My main purpose of posting Namor's big fights are he has a long standing characteristic of taking the fight to his advantage against stronger people than Savage Dragon. He has used hoses, fire hydrants, pools and such to gain his strength back when necessary, and he is quite adapt and fast at doing it. He was burrowing under surfaces to get to water such as the islands or fly under the ground to blitz Wolverine from the pool. Or his fight with Sunfire which I shall post here

He is fast and agile in his flight and maneuverability. He has tunneled under ground, used pools etc. His flight isn't just one dimensional, and I get he is accurate but Namor's pretty quick himself and he is bulletproof and has fought after getting rammed through the torso by Wolverine's claws before.

And he can take stronger people to water than Savage Dragon, sometimes even offering him a win such as against the Hulk. These are some of Marvel's top tiers and he has fought really closely with a lot of them.

In Conclusion,

I was very impressed by Savage Dragon's abilities. He is tough and quite strong, and his healing will keep him in it. He has fought some very impressive people and I have no doubt he has the potential to defeat Namor. However, I do believe Namor has done very well against his own upper tiers. He does have his share of low showings but don't let that detract his feats. I will say that I think this is a war of attrition. Savage and Namor can hurt each other. Savage has his healing to keep him in it. Namor has plenty of water that he can access. This is just me playing Devil's Advocate and I hope you at least walked away with some newfound respect for the character.

To the degree that I am thinking on Namor's side, here's how I see the whole thing going down: Namor and Savage Dragon clash in H2H. They fight for a while. Namor's strength and base durability is better, but Dragon's more agile and faster, so it will be reasonably even. But Namor notices that Dragon is healing. Namor is impetuous, but not stupid. He's been an X-Man, he has experience with regenerative characters. Once he notices the healing factor, he'll do one of three things. (1) He'll get more hard core, and attempt to snap Dragon's neck or back, leading to a long enough incap while Dragon heals for it to count as a win. (2) he flies up and bombards from above. I think he'd have the advantage here, being faster in the air, and having the general advantage that jets do over land forces. But, I can understand the opposite argument. (3) he grabs Dragon and flies them both to the water, where Namor's strength is increased. Dragon is comfortable underwater, but with the amp that Namor gets from being moisturized, he'd win. So I feel like most of these options end with a reasonable majority of wins for Namor. Dragon's strategy, on the other hand, is going to be more about wearing Namor down. He needs to beat Namor enough to eventually KO him, or perhaps to get more lethal and break Namor's neck or back or limbs--before Namor notices Dragon's healing factor and does one of the options I mentioned above. Dragon will take some wins through this strategy, but it would take a while, which makes it more likely that Namor is going to use one of his other options, so all in all, I feel like Namor has more paths to victory.

I have a few more random things for support. First, a battle with Griffin. Now, Griffin doesn't always get a lot of respect, but the OHOTMU from the time this battle was out listed him as 90 tons and compared his strength with Wonder Man (who himself was often described as hitting as hard as Thor in comics of the era), whereas that same volume of OHOTMU listed Namor as 85 tons, and 40 when dry. Since Namor was dry at the time, Namor was actually fighting an uphill battle when it came to strength. (For comparison, Thing was listed as an 85 tonner back then, and She-Hulk was at 75.) Anyway, Namor says a couple things of note. First, that Griffin is almost as strong as the Hulk, backing-up what's in the handbook. Second, that he's going to need his skill to win, skill honed in over "70 years of endless battle." Namor is not just a dumb puncher; he's highly experienced and uses skill. Third, after fighting in the air a while, Namor decides to take the battle down to the water--just as I think he might do with Dragon here. So Namor is proven to be smart enough to change the battlefield to his advantage. Finally, in the water, Namor beats Griffin.

(Namor actually beat Griffin enough that he was able to tame him later, riding him as a mount for a few issues. Given Griffin's fierce nature, I think that shows what a beating Namor gave him.)

Namor also fought off Super-Skrull pretty convincingly. After Namorita hits him once, Namor punches him, SS gets in one punch back while invisible, and then Namor gets in four unanswered punches in a row. Sensing he's beaten, SS then runs off to set off some doomsday machinery. This is a pretty good showing by Namor considering that Super Skrull has fought well against the FF and numerous cosmic characters. What's also awesome is that Namor uses sonar to sense the invisible Super Skrull, a power last used in FF number 9 according to the caption--which also amusingly gives credence to his absorb/project electricity power I showed above in FF number 6. If he can recall one random old power, why not another? :) Not that either one is useful in this fight.

Finally, let's look at the battle where the Squadron Supreme killed him. Sure, it ends badly, but as others have noted already, he gave them a good fight, once again showing that Namor can prove a challenge to whole teams. Here, he trades blows evenly with Hyperion, whose ability to lift Atlantis is, in my estimation, one of the better no-context pure lifting feats in Marvel. And if anything, Namor hits Hyperion harder than Hyperion hit Namor. Then Namor shrugs off Spectrum's blasts and withstands an attack from the speedster Blur. Then when Blur attacks again and races around him, Namor manages to kick him in the face, which is an excellent speed feat. Namor then throws off Power Princess, who tries to hold him down. PP is a highly skilled and strong warrior and who killed IIRC all the heroes on her Earth or something like that. OK, and then yes he dies.

These feats aren't necessarily something I'd rest the entireity of my case for Namor on, but I think they're worth taking at look at.

Sorry guys, I don't have time to throw out a lot of responses, so I am not trying to ignore anyone with a lack of response to any discussions. This has been a very busy week, and I was lucky to get even this finished.

There will most likely be typos abound, and I will come back and correct them when I get some time. Before I get into this, bear in mind, those linked CaVs are unfinished. There is a good chunk of information that has yet to be presented on Dragon. Right now, all I am going to do is do a brief overview of things we have already seen, then I am going to jump into the new stuff. So bear with me...@juiceboks, if you don't want a spoiler into feats that will appear in my next post, avoid reading this=)

First, the review...

Powers/Abilities:

Adaption -- First and foremost, this is Dragon's main overall power. This is how we take a character that started at somewhere on the lower rung of the ladder Image powerhouse wise, and rose to be a class 100. His body has basically adapted, and become stronger and far more durable over time. This is why in my CaVs, I can show Dragon operating on a lower end in earlier showings, to competing with some truly heavy hitters in later stories.

Healing/Regen -- Dragon's healing/regeneration is a force to be reckoned with. He has healed from death, had his healing reverse an effect that shrunk him to the size of an action figure, reversed a molecular alteration effect where he was turned completely to chocolate, healed from having his lower torso blown off and so on. Namor would be hard pressed to actually do any lasting damage based on the feats I have already shown.

Strength -- He has had battles with another Dragon of equal strength, causing quake like effects, destroying multiple buildings, and pretty much wrecking a good chunk of his city (have never seen Namor perform a similar feat). He has hit people so hard, that buildings collapsed when they made impact. He has also brought down a multistory building with one arm while laying prone and slapping the ground outside of the building...that is insane strength when you consider that while laying on your belly, you aren't getting a full strength swing out of your arm if you are hitting the ground. Plus, he has lifted tower sized structures to successfully use as weapons in combat. He can lay down punches that have the same effect as an explosion, and by his own words, he could rip a battleship in half...but I'll give you more feats when I breakdown the Image hierarchy.

Not to mention Dragon is strong enough to make insane leaps, and has jumped high enough to punch a fighter jet out of the sky, shattering it to bits...and he can toss a tank hard enough to break down fortified walls...

Durability -- One of my favorite feats of durability is when he tanked a train and all of it's cars hitting him head on from above (shown in my CaV), and then getting blown up to boot, and was none the worse for wear, and kept on fighting. He has been shown surviving the same depths Namor swims through, comfortably floats in space without the aid of any sort of space suit nor helmet, and by his creators words, can tackle the pressures at the core of the planet. He started out being vulnerable to bullets, but adapted to being bullet proof. He can tank explosions that would level a warehouse, tanked the attack of Grip who causes things to blow up by touching them, and tanked an energy attack that disintegrated the top several floors of a building, later becoming immune to such an attack. Plus he has tanked lasers, electricity, and so on, and is pretty much immune to fire.

Not to mention, he tanks the attacks of tonners all of the time...and many of these tonners are quite a bit beyond Namor...but I will get to that shortly. But basically he consistently tanks attacks from a class of people that are around or above Supreme power levels (who can fight on the planetary level) and opponents that can punch people through planets...

Speed/Reaction/Aim -- This guy has the speed and reactionary abililty to dodge the close range automatic fire of Super Patriot, and has shot Wesley the Killer's bullets out of the air...who never misses and can shoot the wings off of a fly. Dragon's first time holding a gun, he shot 6 bullets perfectly through the same initial bullet hole he had made in the target. This is a guy that chewed a nickel while climbing the side of a building and spat it from outside through a window for a perfect head shot to take out a foe...and it was like a gunshot to the foes head, so no, they didn't make it. With bullet timing ability, and insane aim...Namor flying around trying to chunk things isn't going to end well for him. Dragon can chunk objects right back, has the aiming ability to tag Namor more often than not, can tag any projectile Namor throws to knock it off course and off target, and will most likely have more "ammo" being on the ground. Namor's flying game won't afford him much.

Not to mention laser dodging, energy attack dodging, and of course, tagging speedsters:

Combat Savant -- He is pretty much instantly adaptable to a differing variety of combat environments, as seen when he effortlessly adapted to an underwater environment, utilized a god's flying shoes for aerial combat, swung through the city Spider-Man style without missing a beat (utilized an alien web slinging kind of device to do so) and so on. The first time he held a gun, he shot it with insane accuracy (the six bullets bit I mentioned above), and has fought and defeated tonners with training in multiple martial arts long before he got any sort of official training. He fights multiple tonners all at once, successfully, all on his lonesome, and is shown to use their own momentum and weight against them while using acrobatic maneuvers to get around in combat.

One of my favorite scenes, is when Dragon faces one of his sons in combat, who has the same powers as Dragon, and had been training all his life in anticipation of facing his father (he was maybe 18 or so I believe). This came down to an identical power set, with a lifetime of training versus Dragon's experience and minimal training. Dragon stomped his son...he is just that good.

Pain Tolerance -- Thanks to Dragon's showings from a weaker era, we have seen him fight with limbs blown off, holes blown through his body, multiple poles jabbed all through his body, every bone broken and twisted in his body, even using his own severed arm for a club. Dragon has suffered some truly horrific injuries that would have flat out killed most characters or slowed them down greatly, Namor included. Between Dragon's durability, healing, and pain tolerance, I just don't see Namor putting him down. Still, let's move on and see what else we can dredge up...before I do that though, remember the majority of what I mentioned above has already been presented in my CaVs dealing with Dragon, so I am not going to bother reposting them here.

The Hierarchy:

With that brief rundown out of the way I am going to start digging into the Image Hierarchy, and discuss just where Dragon sits in all of this. Bear in mind, I will not really be discussing the newer Image stuff with Invincible, since I am not all that versed on those books, but he was one of the few Image heroes left standing after an evil Invincible onslaught. One day I will get there with the Invincible stuff, but as of yet, I don't know where to place them in the overall hierarchy. I am working this from the direction of old school Image. Also bear in mind, some of these characters on lower tiers have the striking power of higher tiers, but I am basically doing this based on overall power levels.

The top of the powerhouse hierarchy, hero wise that is, runs from Supreme, Mr. Majestic, Union, and Mighty Man. And let's note that Majestic has planetary feats to his name, with Union being his physical equal in fights they have had, then you have Supreme with the power levels to tangle with and beat planet busters (so no direct planetary feats until after some reality change shenanigans, but yes, the physical stats to match such foes). Just slightly below this, sits the ranks of Glory, Kid Supreme, and Lady Supreme. Pitt, Badrock, and Fuji make up the next rung of powerhouses just below them. After that, we start getting into Impact, Barbaric, Maul and so on. Some of these are names many of you know, some of these are names that most of you decidely do not know. I've linked some of their individual bios so you can get an idea of who some of these characters are. Now, let's start connecting some dots here...

Some of what I am about to discuss really shows off Dragon's ability to fight and beat various class 100s. Some of what I am about to show off shows Dragon's ability to tank damage from far superior foes, and rock far superior foes with his attacks. So, let's start with Badrock...

Badrock:

Badrock sits in that class 100 strength range where he can go toe to toe with some really heavy hitters. Even Glory was wary about letting him get his hands on her, and this girl is strong enough to knock Supreme for a loop:

Badrock has been shown to be physical equals with the likes of Stormwatch's Fuji, who has tangled with a few Mr. Majestic level foes and held his own with them:

Plus Badrock has also shown to be physically equal to the likes of Pitt, and Pitt has proven himself strong enough to hang with an insane Supreme for a bit (who can hit hard enough to equal a 500 megaton explosion), making his hits felt and managing to keep up in combat, plus also fighting Hulk to a draw in one story...this is seriously a very impressive display on Badrock's part:

So, Badrock versus Dragon? Pretty even battle, with Dragon pulling the win and arresting Badrock:

Badrock has a pedigree that would allow him to go toe to toe with numerous of Marvel's class 100s and pull the win. But, we aren't here to discuss Badrock in complete detail, he is simply a stepping stone for building Dragon's pedigree...

The Gods:

I layed out the Image Hierarchy, and that is fairly important to know when discussing the gods. Dragon has faced a number of gods, and while he normally needs some outside help/amps to actually beat them, he has tanked and survived their attacks, and been able to make them feel his attacks. So to to place these gods and their power levels, for one, we need to understand that they hit really hard:

Let me also point out something about Glory, Mighty Man and Supreme, which is very pertinent to my discussion here. Glory has been strong enough to knock Supreme for a loop, and once ripped off one of his arms. She is far from a weakling by any means. So understand that the three of them used to run together in WWII with a few other heroes, and they ended up having a reunion in more modern times. Supreme and Mighty Man are sent ahead of the rest of the group, being the heaviest hitters, meaning Mighty Man was in fact more powerful than Glory (though somewhere below Supreme in the grand scale of things):

So to say that a god in Dragon's world can manhandle the likes of Mighty Man without issue or struggle, and with one hand stop a charging attack by Powerhouse (who is Mighty Man's physical equal, he may look silly, but it is what it is), should really speak volumes:

The gods are definitevely very powerful, and on another level here. Dragon can tank attacks from this power level without being one shotted, and can rock and harm them with his own attacks:

Let's also talk about Zeek. Zeek is the ancestor of Atlas, the guy who held the world on his shoulders. Per Larsen, Zeek is flat out the most powerful character ever presented in the Dragon tales, and this is evidenced when he rips off Hercule's arms, and he also tore Thor's arm to shreds, both of whom manhandled Mighty Man and Powerhouse:

Dragon's durability is such that he can tank attacks from even Zeek without being KO'ed right out of the gate:

And finally for the gods, lets talk about some scenes from a story called God War, and really show some of how much Dragon has improved thanks to his adaptability powers...the Forever Serpent was freed when the gods home crashed onto the Earth, and this was a being that the combined might of the gods were having trouble with. Zeek was one of the few that was actually damaging it:

So yes, Dragon himself was able to rock and get the attention of such a being in an earlier encounter:

And since Mighty Man was brought up...yes, Dragon can tank attacks from him as well, and Dragon's punches can effectively rock him as well:

And finally, I am going to get into a fairly insane character...

Megaton Man:

He used to star in a short lived series, then found new life as a back up story for awhile in Dragon's books. This is pretty much a Superman-esque character, without the restraint, and no real regard for property and so on. First, let's talk about durability...three atomic bombs dropped on him, obliterated the island he was on, and he was absolutely unphased by them:

As for strength...he pummeled a guy straight through the planet and that foe came out on another continent:

Relocating a chunk of city because he was angry at the neighborhood and wanted them arrested:

And of course, there was the time he used every building in a city as a weapon (which all seemed to be multi-story skyscrapers), and was casually running them through a foe. Note the ease he lifts and uses the buildings:

Megaton Man shows up in the Image Universe through a dimensional transportation device due to a case of mistaken identity to put Dragon down, thinking he is a villain of some sort. Dragon not only tanks a beating from him without being one shotted or dropping, he rocks Megaton Man with his attacks, and this keeps going for 10 pages until they can get things cleared up:

Dragon's combination of durability, pain tolerance, and healing powers kept him going against a foe with strength levels far, far superior to Namor. His own strength, with his fairly insane striking force allowed him rock this superior foe with his punches, which based on what I have already shown, should not really be surprising.

The Conclusion:

So where does all of this leave us? I could continue to build a resume for a multitude of foes Dragon has fought, but between the gods and Megaton Man...not sure I really need to. I could go into characters like Powerhouse, Devastator and more...but when I can show him taking on foes that can cause all of the buildings on a city block to collapse in one single hit, and opponents that can punch people through the planet...again, I'm not sure I really need to. Namor doesn't physically match up to foes like that.

Basically, I would place the end game Dragon's overall physical strength on the tier of maybe Badrock, with a striking force in the range of Glory, being able to rock beings in some of Image's upper tiers. What helps Dragon pull ahead of most bricks is the addition of his high levels of pain tolerance, and fairly insane healing factor coupled with his awesome durability. It is this combination that will make it pretty difficult for Namor to do any lasting damage to effectively put Dragon down.

If we talk about the environment, even if this fight were to go to the water...check the CaVs. Dragon has outmaneuvered foes born to the oceans, and fought in the depths like someone born there, beating and outmaneuvering even Atlanteans and the class 100 sharkman, Mako. Like I said, he is pretty much instantly adaptable to any environment he is introduced to, so he can bring the fight to Namor as equally as well in the water as well he could on land. Namor really holds no advantages in any environment...and while Namor may need to get to water to get his strength and so on back up, Dragon's healing factor and powers need no outside sources to aid him. He will be good and ready to go wherever the battle takes place. Besides the fact Dragon also has the leaping ability to leap out of the depths of the likes this battle will be taking place near...in case it ever did go to water...

So it's not like the fight would be forced to remain in any water. Still, Dragon has successully wrestled with foes that can punch people through planets...add in his considerable speed, agility, and bullet timing reflexes, and I am not sure I like Namor's chances of ever getting him into the water...

If we talk about a ranged fight and throwing things at one another...Dragon has the better aim, can knock Namor's projectiles off course, and can tag Namor more often than not. Not to mention, Namor can only carry so much up in the sky, and being ground level, Dragon has access to more ammo. Also, Dragon has had a chunk of city blown up and collapsed on him, and it didn't stop, nor trap him, so any thoughts of building collapsing and the like, not likely to trap Dragon, plus Dragon can play the building collapsing game himself. He also more than has the leaping ability to jump and tag flyers.

So to conclude my little diatribe, Dragon has faced attacks from beings far above and beyond Namor, and he has also rocked such beings with his attacks. Namor would have a difficult time doing any lasting damage to Dragon based on his healing factor alone, but considering Dragon truly excels in tanking blunt force damage from far heavier hitters than Namor, has an overly insane pain tolerance/will, has the physical stats to go toe to toe with Namor, and has a striking force more than capable of harming Namor...I would favor Dragon every single time in a battle between the two.

I thought the polls were tied up.

Checking the polls now they are tied. However at the time I locked the thread Savage Dragon won. I decided to go with the latter since Cadence made that picture of Savage Dragon pinning Namor. I assume it takes effort to make that image but I don't know.

Checking the polls now they are tied. However at the time I locked the thread Savage Dragon won. I decided to go with the latter since Cadence made that picture of Savage Dragon pinning Namor. I assume it takes effort to make that image but I don't know.

@sirfizzwhizz: Alright updated the results. Thank you again for pretty much making the results thread.

@sirfizzwhizz: The magic of photoshop works wonders. ;)

Nice to see a tie! Actually very impressive that Dragon was ahead at points, as an independent character against a character that's been around almost as long as there have been comics. Just goes to show the strength in wyldsong's arguments and evidence for the character--and that independent characters aren't automatically going to lose as long as people can see what they're capable of!

Now that must have been a slobberknocker. I remember the old days when Dragon was Class 34. Informative and good read.

Thank you=)

Even though Dragon didn't officially win, I have seen threads pitting him against some true class 100s in the past few days, so I will take it as a win overall. Hopefully people have a better idea of just where to place Dragon now overall power level wise.

And Owie...can't discount the strength of your and @god_spawn's debates in this. Good work to both to you.

@owie: I hope so my friend. I did a lot of work with characters like Aspen Matthews, Aphrodite IX, Witchblade, the Darkness and so on. Still have quite a bit more I want to bring to the table, and hopefully make some compelling arguments for=)