Battle of the Week Results: Bullseye VS Deadshot

Battle Of The Week Results!

This weeks battle of the week we put two of the best range fighters in comics against each other! We put Deadshot against Bullseye! In the end after 75 votes Deadshot took a whopping 53%, whereas Bullseye only took 39%...Why did people side with deadshot for a majority? Lets find out!

Arguments Of The Week!

The first one from @owie:

At this distance (150'), I think Deadshot has the advantage. He has better long-range gear, and at least some armor. Even if Bullseye has a pistol--and he'd certainly be very accurate with it, he's good with guns as well as thrown weapons--Deadshot has automatic-rate wrist guns, they're just going to hail out a lot more bullets to dodge.

I suppose at least part of this comes down to agility--which one is better at dodging. I would guess Bullseye but don't know. But I doubt he's enough of a better dodger to account for the higher rate of fire from Deadshot.

Some of the fight probably also comes down to character. Bullseye does have at least somewhat of a tendency to play with his food before he eats it. But, he tends to do that more with characters he has a history with than with random new opponents. This may again slightly disadvantage him, but not to a huge degree.

Basically Bullseye's main advantages--being probably a slightly better physical fighter, and being able to make weapons out of anything--aren't factors here due to the distance.

The second one from @omnicrono:

I'm going with Deadshot. Based on the arguments made so far and my prior knowledge of these two...

Any differences in their accuracy seem to be relatively inconsequential.

Bullseye is superior at hand-to-hand, in the off chance that this turns into that sort of fight, which seems unlikely given the scenario and who these two characters are.

Deadshot has considerably tougher armor, which certainly is of consequence considering that it should allow him to shrug off multiple shots even if he does get tagged, making his lack of "bullet-timing" feats not all that important here, to put it mildly.

Speaking of bullet-timing feats, the fact that Bulls' does have them is immaterial if this fight remains a mid-to-long range contest, and it seems likely that it will (again, given who these two characters are). Bulls' evading every single bullet fired by a marksman of Shot's caliber (best in the DCU?), or even just a majority of them, is a silly thought. He will eventually get tagged, same as Shot. The difference being that Shot's durability is markedly superior to Bulls', which... from where I sit... means Shot will be the one left standing 7-8/10 in very tough fights.

This was another cool battle. My thanks to Jashro and everyone involved for continuing with these. :)

Third argument from @nima_:

In that case, I am undecided. A lot of his flashy-trick shots are just what they are: flashy tricks. I do not think they translate into direct combat with a skilled enemy. It's the same thing as Bullseye killing normal humans with toothpicks, coins, or throwing a paperclip through a fly. All cool tricks to show off your accuracy, but it's not the same as fighting against someone with incredible skill and feats.

So again, I am now in the undecided boat because Bullseye arguably as much better feats against bullet timers and/or highly skilled opponents like Spider-Man (albeit he was poisoned at the time IIRC), Punisher, Daredevil, Elektra, Cyclops, Gambit, Daken, Black Widow, Deadpool, etc. (and even beat some of them)

Fourth argument from @k4tzm4n:

I think anyone saying this a stomp or an easy win for either character hasn't done enough research on both. Lester holds a lot of advantages. He's a better fighter, he has more displays of creative and jaw-dropping ricochet shots, he's more agile, and he has the better reflex feats. But he also has a huge ego. If he went up against another marksman, I can't help but feel like there's a fair chance Lester would want to humiliate his opponent.

Instead of going for a quick kill, Bullseye may take a moment to brag when he has the advantage. With Deadshot, you shouldn't give the guy an opening for even a second. Unlike Bullseye, he often has a no-nonsense approach to fights and won't hesitate going for shots that'll end the battle. If Lester was focused on winning asap and not messing around, I think he'd have a good chance at winning after a very entertaining battle. But that's not the case, and his ego tends to play a role against noteworthy characters. And Deadshot? Yeah, that dude's noteworthy and it's something Bullseye would quickly discover.

TL;DR: I think Bullseye has what it takes to win, but his ego may allow Deadshot to bring the fight to an abrupt end. Flip a coin, I guess.

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Eh, I was going with Bullseye but you win some and you lose some. After this battle I've come to think that Deadshot may be a little overrated considering his lack of hits against bullet-timers.

I agree.

Good debate!

I am still surprised Floyd edged out a majority. But that being said, the arguments were really good. Nice work guys!

Well there is the captain Boomerang showing which people have noted. Deadshot has also shot the aerial disk from under Mister Miracle's feet which is a good showing, considering miracle is a speedster to my knowledge. Likewise Deathstroke has stated that he can't let deadshot get his sights on him and believed the only reason he didn't get a bullet in his back was because when he slammed deadshot's head against the wall it made him dizzy IIRC.

I think bullseye vs deadshot is a good fight but deadshot does have some good feats to his name.

@jashro44: Captain Boomerang may be fast but he lacks the skill to make it matter and Nightwing managed to keep up with him pretty easily so I'm not particularly impressed by this one. Hitting linear-moving disks isn't as impressive as hitting able bullet-timers because you don't have to deal with the unpredictable and agile nature of the target.

Moon Knight managed to cut a projectile out of the air by aiming straight ahead of himself down the barrel of a gun and letting the crescent dart intercept the bullet after it fired. Although Mr. Miracle's disk may be faster than a bullet they have a larger surface area so for a skilled shooter it wouldn't be tricky to hit if it was coming from in front of you, it would just be tricky to pull the trigger before the disk could be thrown and hit you. It's shows Floyd's able to let out bullets quickly but not that he's skilled enough to him to tag a randomly moving opponent imo.

In the case of Deathstroke the point is that he didn't actually hit him and in the end he was able to avoid Deadshot, Slade can comment on Floyd's skill as much as he wants but in my eyes actions speak louder than words.

It was a good battle though, Floyd's armour meant that he could afford to be the weaker shooter but I'd still back Bullseye.

Deadshot.

Bullseye is overated!

@thedandyman:

Captain Boomerang may be fast but he lacks the skill to make it matter and Nightwing managed to keep up with him pretty easily so I'm not particularly impressed by this one.

Nightwing being able to contend with boomerang is a good feat for nightwing. Boomerang has also deflected bullets with paper clips, and he was able to react to a Jay Garrick clone that was able to disarm katana so fast she didn't see it coming. Boomerang isn't slow, yes he moves in short bursts but he has proven to be a capable bullet timer.

Hitting linear-moving disks isn't as impressive as hitting able bullet-timers because you don't have to deal with the unpredictable and agile nature of the target.

What makes you say Mister Miracles disks don't have mobility out of curiosity? To my knowledge there very mobile:

All though admittedly upon further research it seems Miracle's showing agianst Orion was post-god miracle and not pre god miracle who deadshot fought. All though pre-god miracle is still pretty quick and agile:

Gallery

So its still pretty amazing deadshot was able to shoot miracles disks.

Moon Knight managed to cut a projectile out of the air by aiming straight ahead of himself down the barrel of a gun and letting the crescent dart intercept the bullet after it fired.

Moon knight isn't bullseye and this is basically moon knight's highest end feat.

Although Mr. Miracle's disk may be faster than a bullet they have a larger surface area so for a skilled shooter it wouldn't be tricky to hit if it was coming from in front of you, it would just be tricky to pull the trigger before the disk could be thrown and hit you. It's shows Floyd's able to let out bullets quickly but not that he's skilled enough to him to tag a randomly moving opponent imo.

As I showed above Miracle's disks are more mobile than a bullet.

In the case of Deathstroke the point is that he didn't actually hit him and in the end he was able to avoid Deadshot, Slade can comment on Floyd's skill but in my eyes actions speak 1000 words.

I would still say Slade being cautious of Deadshot's aim is notable.

It was a good battle though, Floyd's armour meant that he could afford to be the weaker shooter but I'd still back Bullseye.

I agree it was a good battle and lester can give Floyd a good fight. But I don't want Floyd's accuracy to become underrated.

@jashro44:

Nightwing being able to contend with boomerang is a good feat for nightwing. Boomerang has also deflected bullets with paper clips, and he was able to react to a Jay Garrick clone that was able to disarm katana so fast she didn't see it coming. Boomerang isn't slow, yes he moves in short bursts but he has proven to be a capable bullet timer.

Has he ever fought and beat a skilled non-powered opponent rather than one who relies on their super speed? Daredevil is able to use nerve strikes more easily on, say, Mr. Hyde than on Captain America because Steve has the skill needed to prevent Matt from using this ability so I'm thinking that although Boomerang may have the capability of going up against other powered opponents he can be defeated by enemies of have greater combat awareness.

What makes you say Mister Miracles disks don't have mobility out of curiosity?

Because in the specific scan of Deadshot shooting the thrown disc it appears to be travelling in a straight line rather than curving and bending:

Mr. Miracle's disk may be able to be manoeuvrable projectiles, I don't know much about him, but in this case it appears that the disk's route is pretty linear.

Moon knight isn't bullseye

I wasn't using this instance to say that Bullseye could do the same, I was using it to try to explain how Deadshot could've hit the disk. In the Moon Knight case, I think that Marc was accurate enough to throw his crescent dart at the barrel of the gun, a skill that many other street levellers including Elektra can perform, rather than being able to clearly perceive and aim at the actual bullet. The dart was too slow to reach the shooter before the gun went off and the bullet was only blocked because it moved in a straight line out of the barrel so it naturally was intercepted by the crescent dart. I think the disk shooting feat was done in a similar way, Deadshot was fast enough to fire directly in front of him as he knew that'd be the general direction the disk would be travelling in but he wasn't able to clearly perceive and aim at the actual disk. Overall, it's good feat to show that he could hit Bullseye's throwing knives out of the air if they were travelling in a fairly straight path but I don't believe it means he can hit Bullseye himself. Not for a majority. Hopefully you get what I'm trying to say, I might not be being articulate enough.

Edit: Is Mr. Miracle throwing the aerodisk at Deadshot? Normally he rides two so I didn't think he was using it for moving about and it looks like he's lobbed it at him but I might be mistaken, Luke McDonnell's art might just be confusing me. Shame if that was the case, it'd mean I would've wasted my time with this paragraph. Forget you ever read it.

and this is basically moon knight's highest end feat.

And this seems to be one of Deadshot's highest end feats.

I would still say Slade being cautious of Deadshot's aim is notable.

Sure, but if you're a smart fighter then you should be cautious of most opponents. Boomerang wasn't cautious and look where that got him, he ran straight into Deadshot's gun. I do understand what you're saying though but hitting a target >> the target saying that they need to be cautious.

@thedandyman:

Has he ever fought and beat a skilled non-powered opponent rather than one who relies on their super speed? Daredevil is able to use nerve strikes more easily on, say, Mr. Hyde than on Captain America because Steve has the skill needed to prevent Matt from using this ability so I'm thinking that although Boomerang may have the capability of going up against other powered opponents he can be defeated by enemies of have greater combat awareness.

We aren't talking about boomerangs hand to hand capabilities though. We are talking about his speed. The fact he could tag a character who was moving to fast for characters such as katana to even see says a lot about his reactions.

Because in the specific scan of Deadshot shooting the thrown disc it appears to be travelling in a straight line rather than curving and bending:

Mr. Miracle's disk may be able to be manoeuvrable projectiles, I don't know much about him, but in this case it appears that the disk's route is pretty linear.

The only thing that scan shows is Miracle falling off his disk. We don't know if it was moving in a straight line or not because most of the fight is off panel. We do however know Miracles capabilities so we can determine the feat is impressive.

I wasn't using this instance to say that Bullseye could do the same, I was using it to try to explain how Deadshot could've hit the disk. In the Moon Knight case, I think that Marc was accurate enough to throw his crescent dart at the barrel of the gun, a skill that many other street levellers including Elektra can perform, rather than being able to clearly perceive and aim at the actual bullet. The dart was too slow to reach the shooter before the gun went off and the bullet was only blocked because it moved in a straight line out of the barrel so it naturally was intercepted by the crescent dart.

I think the disk shooting feat was done in a similar way, Deadshot was fast enough to fire directly in front of him as he knew that'd be the general direction the disk would be travelling in but he wasn't able to clearly perceive and aim at the actual disk. Overall, it's good feat to show that he could hit Bullseye's throwing knives out of the air if they were travelling in a fairly straight path but I don't believe it means he can hit Bullseye himself. Not for a majority. Hopefully you get what I'm trying to say, I might not be being articulate enough.

Again though nothing suggests Miracle was limited to a straight line or was even moving in a straight line when he was shot.

Edit: Is Mr. Miracle throwing the aerodisk at Deadshot? It looks like he's just lobbed it at him but I might be mistaken, Luke McDonnell's art could just be confusing me. Shame if that was the case, it'd mean I would've wasted my time with this paragraph.

I don't think so. Deadshot says "I prefer my opponents at eye level" which implies Miracle was flying around on the disks.

And this seems to be one of Deadshot's highest end feats.

The feat can be supplemented with other showings like being able to tag boomerang, and characters like deathstroke and batman being afraid of deadshot. Deadshot is always portrayed as a top tier marksman who can shoot fast people, Mark doesn't have a lot of feats at that level, except under Elias from what I have seen.

Sure, but if you're a smart fighter then you should be cautious of most opponents. Boomerang wasn't cautious and look where that got him, he ran straight into Deadshot's gun. I do understand what you're saying though but hitting a target >> the target saying that they need to be cautious.

Difference being is deathstroke stated that he couldn't let deadshot get a bead on him at all, and the reason he didn't get "slugged" in the back was because he hit deadshot's head.

Still Bullseye to me.

@jashro44:

We aren't talking about boomerangs hand to hand capabilities though. We are talking about his speed. The fact he could tag a character who was moving to fast for characters such as katana to even see says a lot about his reactions.

No, we're talking about, like I said, combat awareness. It may not have been the best example but what I was trying to convey with the Captain America points is that he knows not to allow himself to open himself up to a nerve strike in the same way that a speedster with combat awareness would know not to open themselves up to an attack. Speedsters often fight in a pretty dumb manner, they may be fast but their movements are so predictable that if you're skilled enough they're relatively easy to hit:

Gallery

Wolverine says it in the last scan, you can often "figure out where they're gonna pop out next" and tag them that way which is what Deadshot did. That's why I don't think hitting Boomarang means he can hit Bullseye, it's harder to judge where Lester will move to.

I concede with the Mr. Miracle feat, I didn't quite understand what was happening in the scan so couldn't judge it properly. If he had a larger amount of showings like this then I'd give him the win but Bullseye's hit a wider range of skilled bullet-timers more often.

Difference being is deathstroke stated that he couldn't let deadshot get a bead on him at all, and the reason he didn't get "slugged" in the back was because he hit deadshot's head.

I looked at the battle again, Deathstroke does say that he can't give him a chance to aim but that doesn't necessarily mean Deadshot would hit him, it would just give him a greater chance of hitting him. And I don't think that the only reason Deathstroke didn't get slugged was because he hit Floyd's head, perhaps it did impair Deadshot but Slade said he doubted that he "pounded him hard enough to throw him of his aim":

I'd also note it's easier to shoot a guy in the back because they're unable to see their opponent which makes it harder to avoid the gunman's aim.

Saying all this may make it seem that I think Deadshot is a lousy aim. He's not, he's one of the best shots in the DC universe but I still stand by my view that Bullseye is more suited to tagging other skilled opponents.

@thedandyman:

No, we're talking about, like I said, combat awareness. It may not have been the best example but what I was trying to convey with the Captain America points is that he knows not to allow himself to open himself up to a nerve strike in the same way that a speedster with combat awareness would know not to open themselves up to an attack. Speedsters often fight in a pretty dumb manner, they may be fast but their movements are so predictable that if you're skilled enough they're relatively easy to hit:

Wolverine says it in the last scan, you can often "figure out where they're gonna pop out next" and tag them that way which is what Deadshot did. That's why I don't think hitting Boomarang means he can hit Bullseye, it's harder to judge where Lester will move to.

Thats pretty much how everyone in comics get's tagged. Even street levelers. Yea I see what your saying that Boomerang isn't as agile as bullseye but he is still incredibly fast.

I looked at the battle again, Deathstroke does say that he can't give him a chance to aim but that doesn't necessarily mean Deadshot would hit him, it would just give him a greater chance of hitting him. And I don't think that the only reason Deathstroke didn't get slugged was because he hit Floyd's head, perhaps it did impair Deadshot but Slade said he doubted that he "pounded him hard enough to throw him of his aim":

I'd also note it's easier to shoot a guy in the back because they're unable to see their opponent which makes it harder to avoid the gunman's aim.

Fair enough.

Saying all this may make it seem that I think Deadshot is a lousy aim. He's not, he's one of the best shots in the DC universe but I still stand by my view that Bullseye is more suited to tagging other skilled opponents.

Well honestly I don't think bullseye's record is much better.

@jashro44: You should have put in the third option "Ultimate Hawkeye kills both". Winning.

@jashro44: I believe it is against skilled opponents, not by a massive amount but still better. Sure, guys like Daredevil and Deadpool have been able to avoid his projectiles but at least he's actually tagged them on some occasions and he's more than able to hit slower street levellers like Punisher and Moon Knight. In the battle of the week, unlike many of the battles in comics, Lester was equipped with a gun which is easier to get a good shot with than arrows and throwing starts seeing as the bullet travels faster so that was another reason for my decision.

As mentioned daredevil typically dodges and deflects bullseye's projectiles more often than not. Bullseye has had more fights with people like daredevil so its not surprising he has tagged him on occasion. Bullseye has tagged deadpool but he has also been evaded by him on a couple of occasions. The only real agile people I'm aware of deadshot has encountered are deathstroke (who was weary of deadshot's aim and would probably defeat bullseye as well), batman (who deadshot holds back against), and Mister miracle. Bullseye's track record isn't necessarily better he just faces agile enemies more often, which gives him much more chances to prove himself.

I'm a huge Floyd fan but decided against participating in the debate. Interesting to see the results, that's for sure.

@thedandyman: A little late, but in the newest issue of Midnighter that came out today, Floyd tags him once. That said, Midnighter avoided tens or possibly even upwards of a hundred bullets and defeated Floyd quite easily. But Midnighter also out-reacted a speedster in the previous issue and arguably dodged lightning a few pages prior, so Floyd tagging him even just once is a great feat.

@jashro44: Daredevil is one of the fastest streets around and, although not on the level that Deadshot pulls his shots on Batman, Bullseye does hold back against him for egotistical reasons:

Matt has been to fast for skilled gunmen like Winter Soldier and Deadool and, although they've fought many times, Punisher's only many to tag him once if I recall correctly. Frank uses guns against Daredevil rather than thrown projectiles which are easier to get a good hit with and even though he avoid damaging Matt's vital areas we see that Bullseye also does this as well.

I'm not a huge Deadshot expert but I'm sure he's fought more than the amount of skilled street levellers you've listed and not hit them: David Cain, Connor Hawke, Green Arrow, Onomatopoeia, etc. Perhaps he is as good as Bullseye but I'd like to see him being able to shoot more than one quick, agile opponent with decent combat awareness before reaching that conclusion.

I think the main reason I give Bullseye the win isn't because of his, in my eyes, better accuracy against skilled fighters but because of his greater speed. He's generally shown to be a fairly large amount more agile than Deadshot, keeping up with Daredevil on occasions, and his set of bullet-timing instances is more stable. With all of the cover a city landscape provides and the fact that they can't focus fully on their aim seeing as they're being shot back at, maybe neither of them will be shot but if this reaches close-quarter then Bullseye's great martial arts should pull him through here.

You don't mind if I make that my last attempt at defending Bullseye do you? I've had to rewrite this a couple of times because it hasn't loaded and I think I'm now allergic to discussing Lester or Lawton for a few days.

@elijah_c_washington: I don't believe this was a legitimate accuracy feat for Deadshot. Throughout the fight Midnighter was continuously making comments as if he wasn't greatly struggling at dodging Deadshot's bullets. He says "There's only one way to make you scream Lawton...And it's going to hurt". He's then shot but proceeds to say "I've got you. Weren't you listening? I said it was going to hurt" and crushes Deadshot's hands. I think that, judging from the dialogue, Midnighter planned on getting shot so that Deadshot would let his guard down and leave an opening for break his "meal ticket" which is the only think that could cause him upset.

@thedandyman: I thought of that, but considering it wasn't directly stated he did it on purpose and it also caused him lose the fight, I doubt it.

@thedandyman:

Daredevil is one of the fastest streets around and, although not on the level that Deadshot pulls his shots on Batman, Bullseye does hold back against him for egoistical reasons:

That scan is bullseye being pissed because of the time Matt saved him from being run over by a train. Matt has dodged bullseye before and after that event. Bullseye does not always pull his shots on Matt either.

Matt has been to fast for skilled gunmen like Winter Soldier and Deadool and, although they've fought many times, Punisher's only many to tag him once. Frank uses guns against Daredevil rather than thrown projectiles which are easier to get a good hit with and even though he avoid damaging Matt's vital areas we see that Bullseye also does this as well.

I realize daredevil is great at dodging things but that doesn't denote the fact Matt does evade Lester more often than not.

I'm not a huge Deadshot expert but I'm sure he's fought more than the amount of skilled street levellers you've listed and not hit them: David Cain, Connor Hawke, Green Arrow, Onomatopoeia, etc. Perhaps he is as good as Bullseye but I'd like to see him being able to shoot more than one quick, agile opponent with decent combat awareness before reaching that conclusion.

His showing with Connor hawke is from the richard dragon series I believe. I could be wrong. However I do know the Richard Dragon series isn't canon. Deadshot actually shot the string off of green arrow's bow. I will give you David Cain, all though Deadshot was distracted against Onomatopoeia.

I think the main reason I give Bullseye the win isn't because of his, in my eyes, better accuracy against skilled fighters but because of his greater speed. He's generally shown to be a fairly large amount more agile than Deadshot, keeping up with Daredevil on occasions, and his set of bullet-timing instances is more stable. With all of the cover a city landscape provides and the fact that they can't focus fully on their aim seeing as they're being shot back at, maybe neither of them will be shot but if this reaches close-quarter then Bullseye's great martial arts should pull him through here.

That's fine I was just talking about accuracy.

You don't mind if I make that my last attempt at defending Bullseye do you? I've had to rewrite this a couple of times because it hasn't loaded and I think I'm now allergic to discussing Lester or Lawton for a few days.

That's fine as well.

@sirfizzwhizz: Then Arrow proceeds to kill Hawkeye.

Yep, I just saw the context of the battle. In that instance, Midnighter clearly meant to get shot. It was part of his plan.

Can Bullseye bullet time?

@monsterstomp: Quite possibly. I'll leave the decision up to you but here's some evidence that he could be a bullet timer, a low-level one but still a bullet timer.

While it's not specifically a bullet timing feat, the scan does show that Bullseye sees in "slow motion" and he describes someone running away being as slow as a mannequin. On one hand this could be hyperbole and all this instance shows is that Lester's faster than a normal human like most superheroes/villains but on the other hand you could use it to show that Bullseye does have heightened reflexes which could allow him to bullet time.

He's able to ricochet an opponent's bullet into that same opponent's eyepiece. You could say that Bullseye is able to move his arm to deflect the future shot before the shooter is actually able to release the bullet or you could say that it was the bullet he was able to react to rather than the gunman.

This one seems the more likely than the other two as proof of bullet timing. What appears to be happening is that Bullseye is shown with his arms down, the shooter fires the bullet in the next panel and Lester's arms then come up to deflect the accurate shot and put the bullet into the shooter's face.