Battle of the week: Green Arrow vs Daredevil

@lubub55:

He'll do things like electrocute the ground

Introducing "The Floor Is Lava" 2.0!!! =P

GREEN ARROW USES SONIC ARROW! GG

Was that sarcasm?

So for all I'm reading about what Ollie has going for him is Trick Arrows. That's about it. Now seeing as he's in character, correct me if I'm wrong but I doubt he'll start out shooting explosive arrows. Also seeing as DD is more a less a casual Bullet timer I don't see how he wouldn't react to his arrows before he even draws them.

OK, you're wrong. Ollie uses trick arrows ALL THE TIME, including (but not limited to) explosives. Matt being a bullet timer won't help him when an arrow hits the floor 2 meters in front of him and suddenly an electric field knocks him out.

I think you're wrong. You didn't even read my sentence correctly. I'll give you a second go at it. Then come back to me. Read more carefully.

I fail to see the problem.

You said:

Now seeing as he's in character, correct me if I'm wrong but I doubt he'll start out shooting explosive arrows.

To which I replied:

Ollie uses trick arrows ALL THE TIME, including (but not limited to) explosives.

And then you said:

Also seeing as DD is more a less a casual Bullet timer I don't see how he wouldn't react to his arrows before he even draws them.

To which I replied:

Matt being a bullet timer won't help him when an arrow hits the floor 2 meters in front of him and suddenly an electric field knocks him out.

I don't see what's the problem here.

@the_red_viper: That is hilarious.

@the_red_viper: You missed two words. Start out.

Can you please stop trying to patronize me and just post an actual argument that wasn't dismissed like at least 5 times since this thread was opened?

@lubub55: I believe DD should win this, but man, you are debating circles around these dudes.

@comicace3:

Gallery

Here are two examples of him starting combat with trick arrows.

I did. In fact you still haven't proven me wrong. The context of my sentence is different then what you are going against. People are saying stuff about trick arrows to which you're replying. I'm saying that because of random encounter and Morals he won't START OUT shooting explosive arrows at Matt. I also said Matt's a casual bullet timer. Nothing too hard to see. I'm also not trying to be patronizing at all.

I'll add a couple more.

Matt is stronger

Faster

More skilled

Has better senses

What else am I missing.

Your argument is all about trying to tag Matt. My argument is about him beating Ollie.

@lubub55 said:

@comicace3:

Gallery

Here are two examples of him starting combat with trick arrows.

One is completely useless against Matt and another Matt can hold his breath. I'll wait. I also said explosive arrows btw.

And I said that he WILL start out with trick arrows because HE DOES IT ALL THE TIME. It's COMPLETELY in character for him to do. Again quote:

Ollie uses trick arrows ALL THE TIME, including (but not limited to) explosives.

He will start with trick arrows, he will win, Matt won't get the chance to close the distance and fight in close quarters because he will be knocked out on the floor long before that will happen. That's it. You were the one missing my point, not the other way around.

.....

@comicace3 said:

@lubub55 said:

@comicace3:

Gallery

Here are two examples of him starting combat with trick arrows.

One is completely useless against Matt and another Matt can hold his breath. I'll wait. I also said explosive arrows btw.

1. How is an explosive useless against Matt?

2. How would Matt know he has a knockout gas arrow coming his way?

@the_red_viper: I would quit if i were you. In the nightwing thread they all stated that they honestly believe Matt is basically omniscient. They actually argued he could tell apart every piece of tech nightwing has on him.

@the_red_viper said:

@comicace3 said:

@lubub55 said:

@comicace3:

Gallery

Here are two examples of him starting combat with trick arrows.

One is completely useless against Matt and another Matt can hold his breath. I'll wait. I also said explosive arrows btw.

1. How is an explosive useless against Matt?

2. How would Matt know he has a knockout gas arrow coming his way?

Wait I'm fairly certain the first isn't explosive but used to blind them?

Momma didn't raise no quitter!!!

@the_red_viper: Ah, you were talking about the second one. Yeah he used an explosive but it's not consistent with all of hi other showing and I'm pretty sure there is context. I dare you to cite it.

Why is Matt just gonna stand there and let Ollie nab him with arrows. Regardless of which arrow he uses Matt in this environment won't leave anything to chance.

Yes, Matt is completely omniscient. Like Batgod. Seriously though I say one thing and everyone looses their noggin.

OK, it's from Kevin Smith's "Quiver" arc. I'm holding the TPB in my hand as I'm typing this. Page 34.

This man is a councilman of Star City, and Ollie caught him in the act of pedophilia. He locked himself inside a room, so Ollie just fired the arrow through the door to blow the door up and knock the man back.

And if you look back in my previous posts, you can see more instances of Ollie using trick arrows as an opening move, including explosives. So consistency is not a problem here.

This will be useful against Daredevil:

Because you say fallacious things without backing them up and you refuse to listen to reason.

Apparently that's the case for some people.

Oh and I'm just getting warmed up. I see people are getting pissed at what I'm saying so later this week I'll post scans. Right now I'm just pointing out flaws in arguments. And there seems to be only one which is Trick Arrows.

Perfect in that case Ollie was angry and not in character. Also not against someone of DD caliber. as I'm sure that after he shot that the fight was over.

Well Ollie might have only one argument, but Daredevil has zero.

He was completely in-character. Most of GA's career was dealing with street-level criminals.

And also Daredevil is suddenly explosion-proof? What do you mean "DD's caliber"? You make no sense.

Also no, the fight wasn't over after that. One of his thugs came at Ollie so the councilman escaped, and after that Ollie just sniped him again, tied him up and left him for the cops.

@nefarious: Few things wrong with that.

• Ollie released the sonic arrow when the other leaguers were having a conversation catching them off guard. Not a combat scenario. Especially when they were all completely unprepared and close to him.

So... what are you saying? That Daredevil can outrace sound if he knows it's coming?

@the_red_viper: No what I'm saying is theres context to that scan when Ollie was demonstrating his efficiency with trick arrows while the other Leaguers were having a conversation in Cry for Justice. Ollie isn't going to wait until Matt reaches him when hes the opponent, hes going to fire his arrows at him. If he does as the scan implies it may be too late.

Now you're changing my argument or have no clue what I'm saying at all. He legit

A. stands that door

B. Doesn't fight back

C. Doesn't have the physicals and senses DD does

Seriously how did I loose you? It's either you're trying to change my argument for benefit yours or you're missing what I'm saying completely.

And I know what happened after. It was basically over.

@nefarious: No, but theres just context to it. Ollie wasn't being assaulted by the people he affected with the arrow. Hal didn't have his shields up, but then again this isn't the first time hes been affected by sonics although in another scenario he was able to overcome it.

Of course Ollie isn't going to wait which is just my point. He will fire trick arrows at Matt with blinding speeds, and many of those trick arrows can win the fight for him, the sonic arrow is only one example.

OK, Daredevil is stronger and faster than an old councilman, that goes without saying. I'm not seeing how that helps him. Does he have superhuman durability to suggest that he can tank an explosion? No. The moment Ollie decides to use an explosive arrow which is completely in character for him, Daredevil is down. Same goes for countless other trick arrows, like the electric arrow, tear-gas arrow, knockout gas arrow and others.

@the_red_viper:

Of course Ollie isn't going to wait which is just my point. He will fire trick arrows at Matt with blinding speeds, and many of those trick arrows can win the fight for him, the sonic arrow is only one example.

Blinding speeds? Hyperbole much? I mean Matt has dodged bullets and arrows before what makes Oliver's arrows any different?

im glad to see Matt having a commanding lead in the polls.

The Devil. I'll try and jump in on this later.

No, it's really not hyperbole, I'm literally downplaying Green Arrow here. He has more than one feat that, if actually calculated, shows that Green Arrow can fire faster than a machine gun. But I'm not saying that he actually can fire faster than a machine gun because that wold be ridiculous, so I'm settling for "blinding speeds".

And I never said Ollie will tag him with the arrows, I'm saying that he will use AOE trick arrows, like he always does, that can't be dodged. He can fire AOE trick arrows at the floor, what's Matt gonna do about it? Look at post 30 in page 1 and you'll see what I mean.

Matt is superior to Green Arrow is every category, the only advantage ollie might have is keeping his distance and shooting arrows, but knowing Matt's senses it probably won't make a difference.

Daredevil, not stomping definitely but a good fight nonetheless

Context for the Cry for Justice#4 instance preceding the scan.

Gallery

And the reasoning behind it.

I was wondering what issue this is from.

@hankscorpio said:

Context for the Cry for Justice#4 instance preceding the scan.

Gallery

And the reasoning behind it.

100 foot range should be enough for DD to block/dodge a couple regular arrows and get hurt by 1 aoe attack

Thanks!

I can't wait till @ghostravage hits this thread.... someone better tag me when he posts because it will be epic. also if @vance_astro pops in he'll be happy to drop some DD knowledge also

Typical Daredevil wank. Lubub and Red Viper are destroying it here.

DD wank indeed. He is Spider-Man now

Daredevil is not well suited for fighting gadget spammers. Yes he has great speed and agility, but attacks with a large area of effect are his down fall. He doesn't wear armor of any kind, explosives and electrical attacks will knock him through a loop. As good as Matts senses are, they have been used against him in the past, if you read Daredevil comics you'd know this. He's susceptible to loud noises or other interfere. An explosion or flash bang is seriously gonna stun him, and tear gas or sonics should have even more effect on him than it would on an ordinary man. Matt cant even fall back on stealth for this match, as Ollie has mapping arrows, along with great senses himself.

Green Arrow takes a solid 7 or 8 out of 10.