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Posted by jashro44 (51888 posts) 1 year, 9 months ago

Poll: Battle of the week: Green Arrow vs Daredevil (168 votes)

Green Arrow 31%
Daredevil 63%
Too Close To Call 7%
No Caption Provided

For this weeks battle of the week we have the Emerald Archer Green Arrow versus The Man Without Fear Daredevil! Who will win? You decide!

Rules

  • Green arrow gets post crisis, rebirth/new 52 feats
  • Combatants are in character.
  • This is a random encounter (no prep for either side) and both characters have standard gear.
  • They're fighting in a generic city setting. It takes place during the day and they start roughly 100 feet apart and visible. Everything in the city (let's say the city is the size of Manhattan and surrounded by ocean) is on limits.
  • Incapacitation, knockout, BFR (battlefield removal, which means knocking someone so far away that the fight cannot continue in the very near future) or death all count as elimination. Making a tactical retreat counts as a loss, too. "What's a tactical retreat?" It's leaving the fight with the intention of not returning to the battle in the immediate future. Going to another spot in the environment to catch your breath for a moment or two or for a tactical advantage is not a tactical retreat.
  • Treating everyone else in the debate with respect is a sign of a good debater. If you think someone's saying something that just isn't true, go ahead and stick to the facts to point out why. There's no need at all to drop insults just because you disagree with someone. This is just talking about a fictional fight, there's no need for immaturity and mudslinging about fan fic.
  • If you think the poll isn't going how it should, making an informative post about why a character is being underestimated and spreading the word is far more useful than complaining.
  • One more thing: you don't need to write an essay to have your post highlighted in Friday's article. Sometimes concise posts can be way more effective than a flood of paragraphs. Viner posts that stand out will be included at the end.
  • Votes last till late Friday, and the votes will be posted in the OP to see where combatants stand by Friday. Votes do not determine who wins, only who the majority at the time sides with.

Special thanks to @k4tzm4n for allowing me and other users to continue making these battle of the week threads

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#51 Posted by the_red_viper (12542 posts) - - Show Bio

@lubub55:

He'll do things like electrocute the ground

Introducing "The Floor Is Lava" 2.0!!! =P

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#52 Posted by Sirfizwhiz (1412 posts) - - Show Bio

GREEN ARROW USES SONIC ARROW! GG

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#53 Posted by the_red_viper (12542 posts) - - Show Bio

GREEN ARROW USES SONIC ARROW! GG

Was that sarcasm?

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#54 Edited by comicace3 (12425 posts) - - Show Bio

So for all I'm reading about what Ollie has going for him is Trick Arrows. That's about it. Now seeing as he's in character, correct me if I'm wrong but I doubt he'll start out shooting explosive arrows. Also seeing as DD is more a less a casual Bullet timer I don't see how he wouldn't react to his arrows before he even draws them.

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#55 Posted by the_red_viper (12542 posts) - - Show Bio

So for all I'm reading about what Ollie has going for him is Trick Arrows. That's about it. Now seeing as he's in character, correct me if I'm wrong but I doubt he'll start out shooting explosive arrows. Also seeing as DD is more a less a casual Bullet timer I don't see how he wouldn't react to his arrows before he even draws them.

OK, you're wrong. Ollie uses trick arrows ALL THE TIME, including (but not limited to) explosives. Matt being a bullet timer won't help him when an arrow hits the floor 2 meters in front of him and suddenly an electric field knocks him out.

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#56 Posted by comicace3 (12425 posts) - - Show Bio

@comicace3 said:

So for all I'm reading about what Ollie has going for him is Trick Arrows. That's about it. Now seeing as he's in character, correct me if I'm wrong but I doubt he'll start out shooting explosive arrows. Also seeing as DD is more a less a casual Bullet timer I don't see how he wouldn't react to his arrows before he even draws them.

OK, you're wrong. Ollie uses trick arrows ALL THE TIME, including (but not limited to) explosives. Matt being a bullet timer won't help him when an arrow hits the floor 2 meters in front of him and suddenly an electric field knocks him out.

I think you're wrong. You didn't even read my sentence correctly. I'll give you a second go at it. Then come back to me. Read more carefully.

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#57 Posted by the_red_viper (12542 posts) - - Show Bio

@the_red_viper said:
@comicace3 said:

So for all I'm reading about what Ollie has going for him is Trick Arrows. That's about it. Now seeing as he's in character, correct me if I'm wrong but I doubt he'll start out shooting explosive arrows. Also seeing as DD is more a less a casual Bullet timer I don't see how he wouldn't react to his arrows before he even draws them.

OK, you're wrong. Ollie uses trick arrows ALL THE TIME, including (but not limited to) explosives. Matt being a bullet timer won't help him when an arrow hits the floor 2 meters in front of him and suddenly an electric field knocks him out.

I think you're wrong. You didn't even read my sentence correctly. I'll give you a second go at it. Then come back to me. Read more carefully.

I fail to see the problem.

You said:

Now seeing as he's in character, correct me if I'm wrong but I doubt he'll start out shooting explosive arrows.

To which I replied:

Ollie uses trick arrows ALL THE TIME, including (but not limited to) explosives.

And then you said:

Also seeing as DD is more a less a casual Bullet timer I don't see how he wouldn't react to his arrows before he even draws them.

To which I replied:

Matt being a bullet timer won't help him when an arrow hits the floor 2 meters in front of him and suddenly an electric field knocks him out.

I don't see what's the problem here.

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#58 Posted by lubub55 (12832 posts) - - Show Bio
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#59 Posted by comicace3 (12425 posts) - - Show Bio
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#60 Posted by the_red_viper (12542 posts) - - Show Bio

@the_red_viper: You missed two words. Start out.

Can you please stop trying to patronize me and just post an actual argument that wasn't dismissed like at least 5 times since this thread was opened?

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#61 Posted by Chimeroid (9183 posts) - - Show Bio

@lubub55: I believe DD should win this, but man, you are debating circles around these dudes.

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#62 Posted by lubub55 (12832 posts) - - Show Bio

@comicace3:

Gallery image 1Gallery image 2

Here are two examples of him starting combat with trick arrows.

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#63 Posted by comicace3 (12425 posts) - - Show Bio

@comicace3 said:

@the_red_viper: You missed two words. Start out.

Can you please stop trying to patronize me and just post an actual argument that wasn't dismissed like at least 5 times since this thread was opened?

I did. In fact you still haven't proven me wrong. The context of my sentence is different then what you are going against. People are saying stuff about trick arrows to which you're replying. I'm saying that because of random encounter and Morals he won't START OUT shooting explosive arrows at Matt. I also said Matt's a casual bullet timer. Nothing too hard to see. I'm also not trying to be patronizing at all.

I'll add a couple more.

Matt is stronger

Faster

More skilled

Has better senses

What else am I missing.

Your argument is all about trying to tag Matt. My argument is about him beating Ollie.

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#64 Edited by comicace3 (12425 posts) - - Show Bio

@lubub55 said:

@comicace3:

Gallery image 1Gallery image 2

Here are two examples of him starting combat with trick arrows.

One is completely useless against Matt and another Matt can hold his breath. I'll wait. I also said explosive arrows btw.

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#65 Posted by the_red_viper (12542 posts) - - Show Bio

@the_red_viper said:
@comicace3 said:

@the_red_viper: You missed two words. Start out.

Can you please stop trying to patronize me and just post an actual argument that wasn't dismissed like at least 5 times since this thread was opened?

I did. In fact you still haven't proven me wrong. The context of my sentence is different then what you are going against. People are saying stuff about trick arrows to which you're replying. I'm saying that because of random encounter and Morals he won't START OUT shooting explosive arrows at Matt. I also said Matt's a casual bullet timer. Nothing too hard to see. I'm also not trying to be patronizing at all.

I'll add a couple more.

Matt is stronger

Faster

More skilled

Has better senses

What else am I missing.

Your argument is all about trying to tag Matt. My argument is about him beating Ollie.

And I said that he WILL start out with trick arrows because HE DOES IT ALL THE TIME. It's COMPLETELY in character for him to do. Again quote:

Ollie uses trick arrows ALL THE TIME, including (but not limited to) explosives.

He will start with trick arrows, he will win, Matt won't get the chance to close the distance and fight in close quarters because he will be knocked out on the floor long before that will happen. That's it. You were the one missing my point, not the other way around.

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#66 Posted by comicace3 (12425 posts) - - Show Bio

.....

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#67 Posted by the_red_viper (12542 posts) - - Show Bio

@lubub55 said:

@comicace3:

Gallery image 1Gallery image 2

Here are two examples of him starting combat with trick arrows.

One is completely useless against Matt and another Matt can hold his breath. I'll wait. I also said explosive arrows btw.

1. How is an explosive useless against Matt?

2. How would Matt know he has a knockout gas arrow coming his way?

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#68 Posted by Chimeroid (9183 posts) - - Show Bio

@the_red_viper: I would quit if i were you. In the nightwing thread they all stated that they honestly believe Matt is basically omniscient. They actually argued he could tell apart every piece of tech nightwing has on him.

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#69 Posted by comicace3 (12425 posts) - - Show Bio

@comicace3 said:
@lubub55 said:

@comicace3:

Gallery image 1Gallery image 2

Here are two examples of him starting combat with trick arrows.

One is completely useless against Matt and another Matt can hold his breath. I'll wait. I also said explosive arrows btw.

1. How is an explosive useless against Matt?

2. How would Matt know he has a knockout gas arrow coming his way?

Wait I'm fairly certain the first isn't explosive but used to blind them?

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#70 Posted by the_red_viper (12542 posts) - - Show Bio

@the_red_viper: I would quit if i were you. In the nightwing thread they all stated that they honestly believe Matt is basically omniscient. They actually argued he could tell apart every piece of tech nightwing has on him.

Momma didn't raise no quitter!!!

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#71 Posted by comicace3 (12425 posts) - - Show Bio

@the_red_viper: Ah, you were talking about the second one. Yeah he used an explosive but it's not consistent with all of hi other showing and I'm pretty sure there is context. I dare you to cite it.

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#72 Posted by HankScorpio (120 posts) - - Show Bio

Why is Matt just gonna stand there and let Ollie nab him with arrows. Regardless of which arrow he uses Matt in this environment won't leave anything to chance.

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#73 Posted by comicace3 (12425 posts) - - Show Bio

@the_red_viper: I would quit if i were you. In the nightwing thread they all stated that they honestly believe Matt is basically omniscient. They actually argued he could tell apart every piece of tech nightwing has on him.

Yes, Matt is completely omniscient. Like Batgod. Seriously though I say one thing and everyone looses their noggin.

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#74 Posted by the_red_viper (12542 posts) - - Show Bio

@the_red_viper: Ah, you were talking about the second one. Yeah he used an explosive but it's not consistent with all of hi other showing and I'm pretty sure there is context. I dare you to cite it.

OK, it's from Kevin Smith's "Quiver" arc. I'm holding the TPB in my hand as I'm typing this. Page 34.

This man is a councilman of Star City, and Ollie caught him in the act of pedophilia. He locked himself inside a room, so Ollie just fired the arrow through the door to blow the door up and knock the man back.

And if you look back in my previous posts, you can see more instances of Ollie using trick arrows as an opening move, including explosives. So consistency is not a problem here.

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#75 Posted by Nefarious (35646 posts) - - Show Bio

This will be useful against Daredevil:

No Caption Provided

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#76 Posted by the_red_viper (12542 posts) - - Show Bio

@chimeroid said:

@the_red_viper: I would quit if i were you. In the nightwing thread they all stated that they honestly believe Matt is basically omniscient. They actually argued he could tell apart every piece of tech nightwing has on him.

Yes, Matt is completely omniscient. Like Batgod. Seriously though I say one thing and everyone looses their noggin.

Because you say fallacious things without backing them up and you refuse to listen to reason.

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#77 Edited by comicace3 (12425 posts) - - Show Bio
@hankscorpio said:

Why is Matt just gonna stand there and let Ollie nab him with arrows. Regardless of which arrow he uses Matt in this environment won't leave anything to chance.

Apparently that's the case for some people.

Oh and I'm just getting warmed up. I see people are getting pissed at what I'm saying so later this week I'll post scans. Right now I'm just pointing out flaws in arguments. And there seems to be only one which is Trick Arrows.

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#78 Posted by comicace3 (12425 posts) - - Show Bio

@comicace3 said:

@the_red_viper: Ah, you were talking about the second one. Yeah he used an explosive but it's not consistent with all of hi other showing and I'm pretty sure there is context. I dare you to cite it.

OK, it's from Kevin Smith's "Quiver" arc. I'm holding the TPB in my hand as I'm typing this. Page 34.

This man is a councilman of Star City, and Ollie caught him in the act of pedophilia. He locked himself inside a room, so Ollie just fired the arrow through the door to blow the door up and knock the man back.

And if you look back in my previous posts, you can see more instances of Ollie using trick arrows as an opening move, including explosives. So consistency is not a problem here.

Perfect in that case Ollie was angry and not in character. Also not against someone of DD caliber. as I'm sure that after he shot that the fight was over.

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#79 Edited by the_red_viper (12542 posts) - - Show Bio

@hankscorpio said:

Why is Matt just gonna stand there and let Ollie nab him with arrows. Regardless of which arrow he uses Matt in this environment won't leave anything to chance.

Apparently that's the case for some people.

Oh and I'm just getting warmed up. I see people are getting pissed at what I'm saying so later this week I'll post scans. Right now I'm just pointing out flaws in arguments. And there seems to be only one which is Trick Arrows.

Well Ollie might have only one argument, but Daredevil has zero.

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#80 Posted by the_red_viper (12542 posts) - - Show Bio

@the_red_viper said:
@comicace3 said:

@the_red_viper: Ah, you were talking about the second one. Yeah he used an explosive but it's not consistent with all of hi other showing and I'm pretty sure there is context. I dare you to cite it.

OK, it's from Kevin Smith's "Quiver" arc. I'm holding the TPB in my hand as I'm typing this. Page 34.

This man is a councilman of Star City, and Ollie caught him in the act of pedophilia. He locked himself inside a room, so Ollie just fired the arrow through the door to blow the door up and knock the man back.

And if you look back in my previous posts, you can see more instances of Ollie using trick arrows as an opening move, including explosives. So consistency is not a problem here.

Perfect in that case Ollie was angry and not in character. Also not against someone of DD caliber. as I'm sure that after he shot that the fight was over.

He was completely in-character. Most of GA's career was dealing with street-level criminals.

And also Daredevil is suddenly explosion-proof? What do you mean "DD's caliber"? You make no sense.

Also no, the fight wasn't over after that. One of his thugs came at Ollie so the councilman escaped, and after that Ollie just sniped him again, tied him up and left him for the cops.

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#81 Edited by HankScorpio (120 posts) - - Show Bio

@nefarious: Few things wrong with that.

  • Ollie released the sonic arrow when the other leaguers were having a conversation catching them off guard. Not a combat scenario. Especially when they were all completely unprepared and close to him.
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#82 Edited by the_red_viper (12542 posts) - - Show Bio

@nefarious: Few things wrong with that.

  • Ollie released the sonic arrow when the other leaguers were having a conversation catching them off guard. Not a combat scenario. Especially when they were all completely unprepared and close to him.

So... what are you saying? That Daredevil can outrace sound if he knows it's coming?

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#84 Edited by HankScorpio (120 posts) - - Show Bio

@the_red_viper: No what I'm saying is theres context to that scan when Ollie was demonstrating his efficiency with trick arrows while the other Leaguers were having a conversation in Cry for Justice. Ollie isn't going to wait until Matt reaches him when hes the opponent, hes going to fire his arrows at him. If he does as the scan implies it may be too late.

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#85 Posted by comicace3 (12425 posts) - - Show Bio

Well Ollie might have only one argument, but Daredevil has zero.

Ha! Now you're just playing yourself.

@comicace3 said:
@the_red_viper said:
@comicace3 said:

@the_red_viper: Ah, you were talking about the second one. Yeah he used an explosive but it's not consistent with all of hi other showing and I'm pretty sure there is context. I dare you to cite it.

OK, it's from Kevin Smith's "Quiver" arc. I'm holding the TPB in my hand as I'm typing this. Page 34.

This man is a councilman of Star City, and Ollie caught him in the act of pedophilia. He locked himself inside a room, so Ollie just fired the arrow through the door to blow the door up and knock the man back.

And if you look back in my previous posts, you can see more instances of Ollie using trick arrows as an opening move, including explosives. So consistency is not a problem here.

Perfect in that case Ollie was angry and not in character. Also not against someone of DD caliber. as I'm sure that after he shot that the fight was over.

He was completely in-character. Most of GA's career was dealing with street-level criminals.

And also Daredevil is suddenly explosion-proof? What do you mean "DD's caliber"? You make no sense.

Also no, the fight wasn't over after that. One of his thugs came at Ollie so the councilman escaped, and after that Ollie just sniped him again, tied him up and left him for the cops.

Now you're changing my argument or have no clue what I'm saying at all. He legit

A. stands that door

B. Doesn't fight back

C. Doesn't have the physicals and senses DD does

Seriously how did I loose you? It's either you're trying to change my argument for benefit yours or you're missing what I'm saying completely.

And I know what happened after. It was basically over.

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#86 Posted by HankScorpio (120 posts) - - Show Bio

@nefarious: No, but theres just context to it. Ollie wasn't being assaulted by the people he affected with the arrow. Hal didn't have his shields up, but then again this isn't the first time hes been affected by sonics although in another scenario he was able to overcome it.

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#87 Posted by the_red_viper (12542 posts) - - Show Bio

@the_red_viper: No what I'm saying is theres context to that scan when Ollie was demonstrating his efficiency with trick arrows while the other Leaguers were having a conversation in Cry for Justice. Ollie isn't going to wait until Matt reaches him when hes the opponent, hes going to fire his arrows at him. If he does as the scan implies it may be too late.

Of course Ollie isn't going to wait which is just my point. He will fire trick arrows at Matt with blinding speeds, and many of those trick arrows can win the fight for him, the sonic arrow is only one example.

@the_red_viper said:

Well Ollie might have only one argument, but Daredevil has zero.

Ha! Now you're just playing yourself.

@the_red_viper said:
@comicace3 said:
@the_red_viper said:
@comicace3 said:

@the_red_viper: Ah, you were talking about the second one. Yeah he used an explosive but it's not consistent with all of hi other showing and I'm pretty sure there is context. I dare you to cite it.

OK, it's from Kevin Smith's "Quiver" arc. I'm holding the TPB in my hand as I'm typing this. Page 34.

This man is a councilman of Star City, and Ollie caught him in the act of pedophilia. He locked himself inside a room, so Ollie just fired the arrow through the door to blow the door up and knock the man back.

And if you look back in my previous posts, you can see more instances of Ollie using trick arrows as an opening move, including explosives. So consistency is not a problem here.

Perfect in that case Ollie was angry and not in character. Also not against someone of DD caliber. as I'm sure that after he shot that the fight was over.

He was completely in-character. Most of GA's career was dealing with street-level criminals.

And also Daredevil is suddenly explosion-proof? What do you mean "DD's caliber"? You make no sense.

Also no, the fight wasn't over after that. One of his thugs came at Ollie so the councilman escaped, and after that Ollie just sniped him again, tied him up and left him for the cops.

Now you're changing my argument or have no clue what I'm saying at all. He legit

A. stands that door

B. Doesn't fight back

C. Doesn't have the physicals and senses DD does

Seriously how did I loose you? It's either you're trying to change my argument for benefit yours or you're missing what I'm saying completely.

And I know what happened after. It was basically over.

OK, Daredevil is stronger and faster than an old councilman, that goes without saying. I'm not seeing how that helps him. Does he have superhuman durability to suggest that he can tank an explosion? No. The moment Ollie decides to use an explosive arrow which is completely in character for him, Daredevil is down. Same goes for countless other trick arrows, like the electric arrow, tear-gas arrow, knockout gas arrow and others.

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#88 Posted by HankScorpio (120 posts) - - Show Bio

@the_red_viper:

Of course Ollie isn't going to wait which is just my point. He will fire trick arrows at Matt with blinding speeds, and many of those trick arrows can win the fight for him, the sonic arrow is only one example.

Blinding speeds? Hyperbole much? I mean Matt has dodged bullets and arrows before what makes Oliver's arrows any different?

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#89 Posted by Warlockmage (8779 posts) - - Show Bio

im glad to see Matt having a commanding lead in the polls.

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#90 Posted by God_Spawn (42941 posts) - - Show Bio

The Devil. I'll try and jump in on this later.

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#91 Posted by the_red_viper (12542 posts) - - Show Bio

@the_red_viper:

Of course Ollie isn't going to wait which is just my point. He will fire trick arrows at Matt with blinding speeds, and many of those trick arrows can win the fight for him, the sonic arrow is only one example.

Blinding speeds? Hyperbole much? I mean Matt has dodged bullets and arrows before what makes Oliver's arrows any different?

No, it's really not hyperbole, I'm literally downplaying Green Arrow here. He has more than one feat that, if actually calculated, shows that Green Arrow can fire faster than a machine gun. But I'm not saying that he actually can fire faster than a machine gun because that wold be ridiculous, so I'm settling for "blinding speeds".

And I never said Ollie will tag him with the arrows, I'm saying that he will use AOE trick arrows, like he always does, that can't be dodged. He can fire AOE trick arrows at the floor, what's Matt gonna do about it? Look at post 30 in page 1 and you'll see what I mean.

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#92 Edited by deactivated-5b2121a0a9a00 (10000 posts) - - Show Bio

Matt is superior to Green Arrow is every category, the only advantage ollie might have is keeping his distance and shooting arrows, but knowing Matt's senses it probably won't make a difference.

Daredevil, not stomping definitely but a good fight nonetheless

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#93 Posted by HankScorpio (120 posts) - - Show Bio

Context for the Cry for Justice#4 instance preceding the scan.

Gallery image 1Gallery image 2

And the reasoning behind it.

No Caption Provided

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#94 Posted by Nefarious (35646 posts) - - Show Bio

I was wondering what issue this is from.

Context for the Cry for Justice#4 instance preceding the scan.

Gallery image 1Gallery image 2

And the reasoning behind it.

No Caption Provided

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#95 Posted by Mrnoital (7909 posts) - - Show Bio

100 foot range should be enough for DD to block/dodge a couple regular arrows and get hurt by 1 aoe attack

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#96 Posted by lubub55 (12832 posts) - - Show Bio

@lubub55: I believe DD should win this, but man, you are debating circles around these dudes.

Thanks!

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#97 Posted by Warlockmage (8779 posts) - - Show Bio

I can't wait till @ghostravage hits this thread.... someone better tag me when he posts because it will be epic. also if @vance_astro pops in he'll be happy to drop some DD knowledge also

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#98 Posted by AllStarSuperman (42894 posts) - - Show Bio

Typical Daredevil wank. Lubub and Red Viper are destroying it here.

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#99 Edited by Sirfizwhiz (1412 posts) - - Show Bio

DD wank indeed. He is Spider-Man now

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#100 Edited by AllStarSuperman (42894 posts) - - Show Bio

Daredevil is not well suited for fighting gadget spammers. Yes he has great speed and agility, but attacks with a large area of effect are his down fall. He doesn't wear armor of any kind, explosives and electrical attacks will knock him through a loop. As good as Matts senses are, they have been used against him in the past, if you read Daredevil comics you'd know this. He's susceptible to loud noises or other interfere. An explosion or flash bang is seriously gonna stun him, and tear gas or sonics should have even more effect on him than it would on an ordinary man. Matt cant even fall back on stealth for this match, as Ollie has mapping arrows, along with great senses himself.

Green Arrow takes a solid 7 or 8 out of 10.