Battle of the Week: Cyclops vs. Gambit

Gambit wins, too agile, plus unlike Wolverine he can actually return fire and doesn't have to rely on close combat.

@Joker13CSC:

Cyclops is smarter, a tactical genius and more focused. Gambit would be too busy trying to look cool or coming up with a cajun quip, while cyclops would be intent on one thing: taking Gambit out.

@owie:

I don't disagree about the difficulty of tagging Gambit, he's an excellent dodger. But just to be clear Cyclops can vary the power of his beams, so his wide-angle beam does not always have the view-clearing effect he has used on the "Sentinel on the lawn," etc. He can go wide-angle and lower-power at the same time. He won't necessarily use it on his first shot, and Gambit may close in by the time he decides to go for it, so that point may be moot, but I just wanted to clear up that point.

Not sure I agree that needs to be taken for granted.

I know Scott can control the degree and focus of his blasts. But when he's gone 180 degree area of effect as he has, and to the degree where we cannot question whether he'd tag Gambit or not, it's usually indicative of him cutting loose.

Do you have feats you can highlight for us wherein Scott's gone area of effect without devastating results, results that would most certainly mean instant death for a peak human? The two appear completely contradictory to be honest and I cannot think of a single instance.

@super_soldierxii: I don't know if this constitutes as what you had in mind by wider blasts, but he has gone wide again Cyclops used a wide warning shot against Dykon and his people before with Dykon telling them the blast he used was nothing since he can punch through rock, and I don't remember Dykon having superhuman durability, and based on the statement, I think he can safely use wide blasts without ripping people apart. And in some classic issue (forgot which), pushed two guards away with a wide(r) blast, at least wider than his standard one. He also pushed some of Blob's henchman into a corner with a low intensity wide-blast.

Gallery

That's all I got off the top of my head.

Cykey

@god_spawn said:

@super_soldierxii: I don't know if this constitutes as what you had in mind by wider blasts, but he has gone wide again Cyclops used a wide warning shot against Dykon and his people before with Dykon telling them the blast he used was nothing since he can punch through rock, and I don't remember Dykon having superhuman durability, and based on the statement, I think he can safely use wide blasts without ripping people apart. And in some classic issue (forgot which), pushed two guards away with a wide(r) blast, at least wider than his standard one. He also pushed some of Blob's henchman into a corner with a low intensity wide-blast.

Gallery

That's all I got off the top of my head.

Thanks for the scans. He can definitely control wide arc blasts. I would not have questioned that. What I meant was the kind of blast Gambit simply couldn't somersault over or above. One that literally paints the landscape red.

Anyways, as for my take, I said previously said Scott should take roughly 7-8/10 and I still stick by with.

A big question posed to me elsewhere was does Scott have an understanding of Gambit's powers, tactics, and does he have plans and such with him like how Scott has gone into combat with the other X-Men like his fights when they thought he was Phoenix or when he sparked a brawl after the Proteus fight. Now, I can't recall any real one on one fights with Gambit, but I do know he has incorporated Gambit into his plans before. I remember during one of their initial meetings, back when Scott still had his X-Factor costume, Scott said Gambit took a spike Hodge fired, assuming he would not take it out, and told Gambit to break out of his shackles and get them all out. And I remember this being based on information Storm gave Cyclops about Gambit and he entered it into his plan. He's also tactically used Remy in a couple other spots, but the more recent one I remember is during Fear Itself when he had Gambit supercharge Rockslide into a living kamikaze against Kuurth. It didn't work, but it was one of 40+ plans Cyke came up with against him. So originally based on some information told, Scott was able to include Remy into his plan and noted his actions. Over the years, he has used Remy in plans again, similar to just using him and Rockslide.

Gambit brings the edge here in agility,reflexes, his own range, and I would say better fighting skills at least with his staff, but he's gone up against better fighters in skill without using his powers. Scott's h2h ability in conjunction with his power is going to help him in close range if it comes to that, so I don't see it as a massive advantage unless he keeps it strictly h2h/ h2staff, idk, which he won't. Gambit's projectiles can be tagged out of the air. Scott's blasted multiple missiles out of the air in rapid succession He reacted to and blasted a bunch of metal chunks flung at him by an irked Jean Grey (at least I think it was Jean?), and he's blocked a parallel Storm's hand lightning via an optic blast. This is also in addition to just some bullet dodging feats and of course, his ability to tag other characters with enhanced-superhuman levels ie, like Northstar, Quicksilver, Beast, Wolverine, Northstar, Morbius etc. And while he may not tag on the first shot, Scott has missed on occasion only for the blast to ricochet back, and his bank shot feats are insane. Disarming multiple gunmen in a room, him destroying all the Murderworld cars in one go, turning off the Danger Room off a ridiculously complicated bank shot, one shotting Morbius from behind by missing. So he may not tag straight up, but his spatial awareness could help get in that hit, and knowing Gambit, his miss could be a simple bait. Or he can fire off multiple shots to keep Remy at a distance and then tag him. Remy's cards are going to be taken out of the air easier than Scott's blasts. And you can add in him pushing cars or making craters around to create distance or make positions to where he can get a shot. He has many options here to keep Remy at bay, and even if it comes close, I don't think he is so far above Scott skillwise that he can't be held off via a combination of Scott's own skill and power.

So I think Scott brings the best advantages here. Gambit may have him in agility and reflexes, but he isn't Wolverine or Spider-Man level fast in terms of blitzing. His best speed feats are more agility and reaction based than action, IMO. Unfortunately, I don't see that as enough. He's fluid and flexible, but his projectiles can be shot out of the air and with a blast going, I see it harder to connect. Scott has shown he has an understanding of how Gambit operates. He has solid reaction and accuracy feats of his own for me to say he can do this and tag Remy in general by comparison of who he attacks. I guess what I'm saying, is Gambit has an uphill fight. He is facing his leader for years who has a solid projectile vs one that when it comes into contact, it explodes. And I don't think he is so above Scott physical and skillfully in close range, he owns him to the point Scott can't get a shot off. Scott, while not as physical on Gambit's level in certain aspects, has the better and more versatile projectile, and he to can play the environment. Gambit has his trap ability and such, but I don't see it as being so easy in catching Scott like that. Honestly, I see this more of a quickdraw fight rather than one lasting. Scott's intelligence, power, and accuracy I just find more potent. Gambit can flip and dodge, but when he fires, he can throw a few cards, but Scott only needs to clear off two in mid-air and even a standard beam can nail a few close grouped projectiles out of the air. And Scott can miss and it could be a bankshot. He's defeated a few foes like that anyway. But I do see Gambit being able to dodge in the couple instances Scott's follow ups don't work, and he gets a card to the chest or face and goes night night. It would be a fun fight, but I honestly see it as a short one due to both being glass cannons.

@super_soldierxii: I don't think he's ever done a get off my lawn styled wide blast that just knocked someone over, but the closest thing would be that Dykon blast, but I don't think flipping over a wide blast is something Gambit is going to be able to do either. Normally, when Scott goes wide, it is generally a sustained blast and not just a rapid fire one. He's going to end up landing in it or something.

Gambit won't just "leap" up though. He'll toss a charged card, or whatever he has on hand, at Scott whilst doing so. It's a huge part of Remy's M.O. - attacking with charged objects / cards while on the move.

That will definitely force Scott to maneuver or get nailed giving Gambit the time he needs to A) close the distance and get up in Scott's grill, or go for cover and play cat and mouse where I feel Scott will be at a huge disadvantage given the cityscape at night.

25 feet is not a large distance to cover either. Nighttime gives Gambit an advantage (doesn't need night vision to spot Scott's glowing red ruby quartz visor from a mile away). Yes Scott has great awareness of his surroundings, but Professor X sent both Wolverine and Remy up to Magneto's asteroid solely due to their stealth capabilities. Meaning Gambit was placed by Prof X, the man who knows his student's and their capabilities best, in the same arena as Logan where stealth and subterfuge are concerned. I feel the environment definitely favors Lebeau and he can use it to his advantage (leaving charged surprises with every step).

Gambit is just a bad fight for Scott and the environment only makes matters worse.

@super_soldierxii:

Gambit won't just "leap" up though. He'll toss a charged card, or whatever he has on hand, at Scott whilst doing so. It's a huge part of Remy's M.O. - attacking with charged objects / cards while on the move.

He gets blasted in the process then before he throws a card. You said you wanted an example of a blast he can't just somersault over. A wide blast isn't one he is just going to flip over, nor is he likely to dodge it. Considering it's a sustained blast, his jump and attack makes him liable for a simple head lift. It's not like Scott goes blind when he fires off a blast and if Gambit were to try and flip over such a blast, he lands in it. But even if I throw you a bone, the time he does release the card, I don't see why Scott's wide blast just doesn't take out the card then. Gambit isn't so fast he is this blur to Summers.

That will definitely force Scott to maneuver or get nailed giving Gambit the time he needs to A) close the distance and get up in Scott's grill,

Or his initial blast, since his draw speed is quicker, forces Gambit to start moving where he wants him, and Scott can tag his cards out of the air. You want to talk about running and throwing as Remy's M.O, while it is, doesn't mean his position is safe. Scott has done bank shots numerous times off misses. Considering A) Remy isn't beyond something he can't tag on a first hit. B) he knows Remy's tendencies, it's liable he hits him before Gambit hits. And C) Scott brings the better offensive weaponry. And he isn't so far above Scott in CQC that he can't take him out in combination of his powers and own skill.

go for cover and play cat and mouse where I feel Scott will be at a huge disadvantage given the cityscape at night.

And I don't think it makes a huge difference. As I said, Scott knows Remy well and his experience against the X-Men show it. He's dealt with teams of them before and he knows how to rally them where he wants them and take shots on fly. Why would Scott be in such a vulnerable position but the same can't be said for him doing so to Remy? Why would Scott leave himself open when he knows Gambit is a one of the stealthiest members of the X-Men? So why would he stand out in the open? It's not like a flying purplish-pink card in a night setting is so hard to see either. I don't see why Scott couldn't arguably put his own back to a wall somewhere and lessen Remy's chances of getting a sneak attack? And that is if that scenario even happens. I see this fight more being a quickdraw like type battle. Scott can fire, Gambit dodges, throws, and hits because Scott chose to just stick there or his aim was off. Or Gambit could try to dodge and he didn't leap far enough as he's charging and throwing, a blast comes and knocks him down from a quick blast or a bank shot. Scott's drawspeed is faster and his projectile is faster. He's more liable to get the first hit here.

25 feet is not a large distance to cover either. Nighttime gives Gambit an advantage (doesn't need night vision to spot Scott's glowing red ruby quartz visor from a mile away). Yes Scott has great awareness of his surroundings, but Professor X sent both Wolverine and Remy up to Magneto's asteroid solely due to their stealth capabilities. Meaning Gambit was placed by Prof X, the man who knows his student's and their capabilities best, in the same arena as Logan where stealth and subterfuge are concerned. I feel the environment definitely favors Lebeau and he can use it to his advantage (leaving charged surprises with every step).

Gambit is just a bad fight for Scott and the environment only makes matters worse.

25 feet isn't large, you're right, but again, I don't think any of it gives Gambit an advantage. His stealth is only useful if he gets in that position and Scott is perfectly knowledge of Gambit's capabilities and adapted a plan to include him based on hearsay. Years later, his knowledge has only grown, and unlike Summers, Gambit doesn't have any feats to say he knows his team and members as well as Cyclops does. I don't think Gambit brings anything Scott can't deal with, setting included because they have to reach that point. I don't think it's a straight up stomp like some people here are saying, but it's Scott's fight to lose here. His tactical abilities are better, he knows Gambit well, and his projectiles are just overall faster, including his draw speed. I see the majority of the fights ending like how I described up in the 2nd paragraph, but feel free to disagree.

@god_spawn:

He gets blasted in the process then before he throws a card. You said you wanted an example of a blast he can't just somersault over. A wide blast isn't one he is just going to flip over, nor is he likely to dodge it. Considering it's a sustained blast, his jump and attack makes him liable for a simple head lift. It's not like Scott goes blind when he fires off a blast and if Gambit were to try and flip over such a blast, he lands in it. But even if I throw you a bone, the time he does release the card, I don't see why Scott's wide blast just doesn't take out the card then. Gambit isn't so fast he is this blur to Summers.

Gambit dodges the man, not the optic blast. He's already in the air with a card thrown. He moves demonstrably much, much faster than Scott. Based off feats and power set. Summers readjusts his trajectory, he'll get nailed. Might tag Remy, might not. Card thrown will force Summers to move. Unlikely it'll be in a way that will allow him to sustain a wide area of effect blast and tag Gambit at the same time.

Remy's reaction time is definitely superhuman. Scott does not move nearly as fast as Gambit. Again, Lebeau dances around automatic gunfire point blank. I'd say he'd be pretty close to a blur to Summers yes. And again, the goal is not to "flip over" and just land in the blast. He has to merely avoid the initial trajectory (which jumping over above the blast by timing the man would do) and counterattack simultaneously forcing Scott to likewise move ... Cyclops can blast while avoiding as well, but not "sustaining" a wide blast initially fired.

Or his initial blast, since his draw speed is quicker,

Nothing about Scott's reaction time is quicker. That's an assumption based on opinion. Gambit's reaction timing and speed are significantly demonstrably superior to Scott Summers in every way, shape and form. His projectiles do not move nearly as fast as Scott's optics which is the only thing keeping Summers in a tit for tat game against Gambit. And then, just barely.

forces Gambit to start moving where he wants him,

Fun to state. How does he execute? Can just as easily say that Gambit's far superior maneuverability and offensive abilities will likewise force Scott into the play he wants.

and Scott can tag his cards out of the air.

Not while sustaining a blast at Remy he can't.

You want to talk about running and throwing as Remy's M.O, while it is, doesn't mean his position is safe. Scott has done bank shots numerous times off misses.

OK. Landed a "bank shot" against someone as fast, agile and good at avoidance as Gambit? Gambit's landed his kinetic attacks in multiple different ways against a multitude of enemies as well. That alone does not mean he'll tag Summers with any one of them though.

Considering A) Remy isn't beyond something he can't tag on a first hit.

Sorry, not sure what you're trying to say (not being smart or coy, I really don't get the syntax & meaning of your sentence)

B) he knows Remy's tendencies, it's liable he hits him before Gambit hits.

I don't see why we have to believe so based off that comment. I can just as easily state something as equally vague, namely that Remy knows Scott's "tendencies" as well.

And C) Scott brings the better offensive weaponry.

His optics are more "powerful" but not as versatile. Remy can avoid Scott far better than the inverse.

And he isn't so far above Scott in CQC that he can't take him out in combination of his powers and own skill.

His avoidance is above Scott by quite a stretch and his speed is above that of a peak human. Summers' isn't. Not mention the bow staff is a huge close quarters combat advantage (especially when charged). Gambit gets in close, and it's down hill for Summers.

And I don't think it makes a huge difference. As I said, Scott knows Remy well and his experience against the X-Men show it. He's dealt with teams of them before and he knows how to rally them where he wants them and take shots on fly.

Using the danger room and the X-Men's ignorance to help him do so. But yes, I agree that Scott is a thinking man's fighter and will approach this fight in a cerebral fashion which is why Gambit takes only a slight majority. Without that dimension to Summers, I would see Gambit winning a strong majority.

Why would Scott be in such a vulnerable position but the same can't be said for him doing so to Remy? Why would Scott leave himself open when he knows Gambit is a one of the stealthiest members of the X-Men?

Never said he'd leave himself open. In a game of cat and mouse, Gambit is better equipped experience wise and skill wise in subterfuge to ensure Scott is the mouse despite where he chooses to hide. That is all. His power set is also very dangerous in such a scenario as he can leave all kinds of timed traps for Scott.

So why would he stand out in the open?

Never said he would. Scott's not the established master of subterfuge in Marvel land though. It stands to reason it's a game he's less liable to win regardless.

It's not like a flying purplish-pink card in a night setting is so hard to see either.

If your back is turned because the sneak snuck up on you it is. Regardless, already stated Remy's powers are versatile (which I know you are well aware). Doesn't need to charge a card. Can leave any number of timed traps for Scott.

I don't see why Scott couldn't arguably put his own back to a wall somewhere and lessen Remy's chances of getting a sneak attack?

Charge the wall from behind maybe?

And that is if that scenario even happens. I see this fight more being a quickdraw like type battle. Scott can fire, Gambit dodges, throws, and hits because Scott chose to just stick there or his aim was off. Or Gambit could try to dodge and he didn't leap far enough as he's charging and throwing, a blast comes and knocks him down from a quick blast or a bank shot. Scott's drawspeed is faster and his projectile is faster. He's more liable to get the first hit here.

I've already pretty much covered why I don't think your scenario is the more likely. Not the least of which is the fact that you make the assumption that Scott is the quicker of the two, and I think that is categorically false in every regard.

25 feet isn't large, you're right, but again, I don't think any of it gives Gambit an advantage. His stealth is only useful if he gets in that position and Scott is perfectly knowledge of Gambit's capabilities and adapted a plan to include him based on hearsay. Years later, his knowledge has only grown, and unlike Summers, Gambit doesn't have any feats to say he knows his team and members as well as Cyclops does. I don't think Gambit brings anything Scott can't deal with, setting included because they have to reach that point. I don't think it's a straight up stomp like some people here are saying, but it's Scott's fight to lose here. His tactical abilities are better, he knows Gambit well, and his projectiles are just overall faster, including his draw speed. I see the majority of the fights ending like how I described up in the 2nd paragraph, but feel free to disagree.

Again, I've pretty much covered most of what you state there ... but I will add that Gambit knows everything he really needs to know about Scott. He's been privy to Cyclops's moves and methods every bit as much as the inverse. He knows his power set. His strengths and weaknesses. It's not like this is a prep game. He's trained in danger room scenarios with Scott, been led into battle by Scott ... Cyclops holds no great advantage in this scenario with regards the "know your enemy" category. He just doesn't. He's better at executing strategy, in theory, I will admit. Not enough here to give him the nod though. There is no plot set-up here to promote this innate ability Scott has over Gambit's own.

I don't see why sneaking up behind Cyclops would be that much better than walking right up to him. He's a combat master. He knows that if his opponent is coming for him, and he can't see them right in front of him, they're likely sneaking up behind. Cyclops can shoot a target behind him just as easily as one in front of him. He has too many bank shots showing this i.e. that Beast scan where he banks a shot off a couple walls directly into Beast (who is also VERY agile, as well).

In fact, taking Cyclops on one-on-one is almost always a bad idea, in general. There's a reason why the only people to beat him this month were a 2-person combination. I would actually say the only people that really have a chance against him one-on-one are characters that can take his blasts and survive i.e. Hulk, Colossus, Juggernaut, etc. Even speedsters are questionable. One good connect from that optic blast is enough to take out most opponents.

It's going to be difficult at best for Gambit to get around Scott's beams at a distance, get up close and somehow manage to dodge them at close range, and then fight him up close. And then if Gambit does manage to get close, his advantages start to fade fast because he doesn't have superhuman strength or durability, the fighting skills of Nightwing, for example, and there will be no time to charge anything before being blasted when he's that close. He's going to have to engage Cyclops in a close range fight, and Scott's beams will take care of that situation.

Like I've said before, Gambit has a lot of advantages, but not the right ones when it comes to matching up against Cyclops.

@thetrueredkid: still have seen no scans or proof that he would detect Gambit other than hes a "Combat Master" which is not good enough... maybe i should ask @god_spawn

Here's a couple.

Here, in Secret Wars I, he blasts a bunch of the villains with a wide angle blast. You can see Doc Ock in there, so you know it's not just all guys with super durability. They were mostly KO'd but not devastated.

Here, he blasts a bunch of falling rocks that are coming from a ceiling. He did decent damage but again not "Sentinel on the lawn" level damage.

(I know this doesn't show the collateral damage in this panel but if you're willing to take my word for it, he basically just blasted the rocks and not much else.)

Gambit's a sly dog. Given his mastery of cards he could easily use a card trick to slip a charged queen of spades behind Cyc's ear like any great card trickster and then....bye bye Scott with a big bang boom.

I’m going with Gambit

Pretty sure this BOTW is done but I will give my vote to Gambit due to being faster on the draw & the better H2h combatant

I forgot I made that post. Hm.

Cyc get's embarrassed by Gambit. His stealth alone is too much of a determining factor to sway this fight in his favor. Once de rajun cajun is outta sight he easily can use charged cards or whatever is laying around which is convenient enough to be used as a bomb to throw off Scott's focus and cause him to move where he wants him to all the while staying out of sight. Soon as Cyc turns around I can see him getting a charged ace of spades right in his big ol stupid mouth. It's not like Remy isn't fast enough of accurate enough to make a throw like that and I'm sure Scott might he able to shoot it out of the air but if he don't see it comin at him in time as he's turning his head it's game over for mr.yellow under wear. Gambit would be the one to most likely dictate this battle like it or not. He's got more tricks up his sleeve than slim the one trick pony summers. Remy the clever fox Lebeau for de win mon ami.

Remy

my money is on remy he is more skilled and agile and has the more versatile power especially if morals are on.

They start in plain sight. 25ft away. Cyke does a wide beam shot. Gambit can't block it nor has shields.

Just basic knowledge on both. Can be swayed but seems like a easy win for Cyke

Cyclops.

@p00ty: Just wondering. Could Gambit use his charged cards to negate the impact of Cyclop's optic beam by throwing out a few in front of him while back flipping away to avoid the impact? I could see this scenario playing out during the start of this fight as Iron Man himself said that Gambit can basically move/react faster than his targeting system which is pretty fast.

@gambit82: Look at post 154 and 164. You see how wide Cyclops beam is? Gambits projectiles are only a few inches long/wide. I don't think they can block Cyclops entire beam.

Plus Cyclops is great at ricocheted shots which can set Gambit up or catch him by surprise.

As said, I'm just going off of basic knowledge. My mind can be changed.

@cheesesticks: I don't know about all that mon ami. Gambit have a few tricks up his sleeve for mister yellow underwear. Scott ain't as clever as ol Gambit and he knows Cyc's style of combat just as well as vise versa. Fight goes a lil somethin like dis..

Scott gets caught off guard after Remy throws a bluff card at his feet. Gambit then quickly and efficiently takes advantage of Cyc's shock and easily and nimbly flips over him to de other side of de room while smackin him upside the head wit his staff and knockin him out for a Big easy win.

@theblackhood: Strategic Mind should be about dead even to be honest (De Rajun Cajun is one clever fox mixed wit a lucky dog)..

Energy projection should go to Cyc.

Everything else is accurate

@deactivated-5ba149167b2c0: ....HA!

I needed that laugh mon ami.

Probably Gambit.