Battle Of The Week: Bullseye VS Deadshot

Deadshot stomps.

• @owie
• @allstarsuperman
• @isoupreme
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Isnt Bullseye currently in a ironlung?

Deadshot ftw

Deadshot

Pretty sure he actually got fixed and enhanced in Elektra's book but lets just use standard versions of both.

I'm currently CaV'ing this with JTP and Jac, repping Deadshot, so yeah I'm going with Floyd

Deadshot.

Both insanely accurate (duh) but one uses guns and has bulletproof armor...Deadshot stomps (even though I like Bullseye a lot more)

Bullseye's only chance is going into stealth mode and closing the gap, since he is far superior in h2h combat.

Floyd would have to drop him from a distance before Bullseye closes the gap. Depending upon what he has (he can just about kill with anything) in a medium engagement and certainly close quarters Bullseye would have a strong advantage.

Bullseye is a much better all around fighter, but Deadshot has a significant gear advantage. Has Deadshot ever bullet timed? Because Bullseye is fast enough to give Spidey a good fight.

@nima_:

We'll say Bullseye has an assortment of ninja stars, some sais, and I'll give him a pistol as well. I always forget to specify Bullseye's gear in threads involving him :/

Bullseye can take him in h2h and I think he's overall physically superior.

It comes down to if Bullseye can make use of the environment and get close.

No problem that should be a good loadout. With Bullseye you have to be careful with what he has because he makes a habit of weaponizing just about anything he gets his hands on. Objects ranging from a toothpick to a paper airplane XD

I am giving Deadshot the win, but I have a question: has Deadshot ever shot a bullet timer? I've read a lot of books with him and I can only think of him shooting at fodder or characters with no real feats/jobbers. It's actually the main reason why I give characters like Elektra and Cap the majority over him.

I mean if he legitimately has no feats hitting a bullet timer, it might change things here...

@jashro44 It is still hard to assume if any of Bullseye's projectiles would even penetrate Deadshots armor. Would making them made of something like adamantium be too far-fetched?

@nima_: Pretty sure he's tag a speedster or someone with enhanced speed before.

Bullseye

@nima_: Well I remember in deadshot volume 2 deadshot did tank a pistol bullet to the face but his armor was damaged:

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It might take a few shots but Bullseye can penetrate deadshots armor.

I know he could have shot Boomerang Jr. who is a speedster. But his speed is linear and only in short bursts, meaning his moves are more predictable and limited than most speedsters. He was/is also very much an amateur. I mean, even Punisher's shot at bullet timers and speedsters using tactical fire.

@jashro44: I was going to say it would have been cool if he had his Hawkeye gear during Dark Reign but than I remembered he didn't use trick arrows.

I have a question: has Deadshot ever shot a bullet timer?

This is something I'm curious about as well. Deadshot's very good at flashy tricks like getting headshots on random opponents while blindfolded but I don't know if I've seen him tagging a skilled enemy. I've come across scans of him hitting Batman but I think there was context behind those, he was using a sniper rather than his normal wrist guns or something like that.

Deadshot is capable of avoiding bullets even while blindfolded, but he hasn't had a clear cut feat of genuine bullet-timing to my knowledge. That said, he can tag speedsters, he's shot down projectiles that are arguably significantly faster than bullets (Mr. Miracle's aero-discs), and has said he has some degree of enhanced perception (he said he can see each beat of a hummingbird's wings).

Alright I'll make a case for Bullseye since nobody else is.

If we compare physicals, obviously Bullseye has the upper hand. The adamantium bones and possible healing factor (up for debate) give him a good strength/durability advantage. Add that with his H2H skills, and it's clear why he'd take the fight if it gets to close range. Here's an example of his close quarters combat skills against one of the best martial artists in the Marvel universe.

But nobody would make a case for Deadshot in close quarters combat anyway, so lets talk about why he can take him even with the range.

First of all, it's worth noting that Bullseye is fast. Like really fast. And not just in his movement, where he has shown on several occasions to be at least an aim dodger. But look at his reaction time here.

He is able to stun 7 trained soldiers with assault rifles with kicks and leaps, disarm one of them, and get 5 perfect headshots while he was upside down, mid air. And look at the angles on those shots, it's just insane. Plus his fast reaction time has allowed him to keep up with spiderman on multiple occasions, as I said previously. Here's a scan from the most recent one which really shows off his reaction time.

So, I think this shows that Lester is faster, more durable, and a much more skilled martial artist than Floyd. The only thing we could argue about is accuracy, but they're both just about perfect in that regard, so lets call it a draw. But the difference in their accuracy is how they use it. Floyd almost exclusively uses firearms, while Lester can be way more resourceful. Here he is killing a woman with a toothpick from 100 yards out (which is a football field's length if you're having trouble visualizing that.)

So honestly I'd give Lester the edge in every regard except for gear. But given that the fight takes place on a city street, I think he will be able to make up for that deficit by using his considerable speed and agility to make it to cover and to return fire.

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And if my post is too long and you didn't read it, here's my main argument summed up:

If the fight gets to close range, obviously Bullseye wins. I don't think anyone would argue that point. But, if the fight stays at a distance I think Bullseye can still win. Because while they both are equal in accuracy, Bullseye is more likely to be able to dodge Deadshot's fire, given his showings of agility. The only advantage Floyd has is gear, which isn't enough for him to win the fight.

@thedandyman: @nima_: Floyd has tagged Deathstroke in both New-52 and Pre-Flashpoint continuities, and even matched him on the draw once.

In that case, I am undecided. A lot of his flashy-trick shots are just what they are: flashy tricks. I do not think they translate into direct combat with a skilled enemy. It's the same thing as Bullseye killing normal humans with toothpicks, coins, or throwing a paperclip through a fly. All cool tricks to show off your accuracy, but it's not the same as fighting against someone with incredible skill and feats.

So again, I am now in the undecided boat because Bullseye arguably as much better feats against bullet timers and/or highly skilled opponents like Spider-Man (albeit he was poisoned at the time IIRC), Punisher, Daredevil, Elektra, Cyclops, Gambit, Daken, Black Widow, Deadpool, etc. (and even beat some of them)

At this distance (150'), I think Deadshot has the advantage. He has better long-range gear, and at least some armor. Even if Bullseye has a pistol--and he'd certainly be very accurate with it, he's good with guns as well as thrown weapons--Deadshot has automatic-rate wrist guns, they're just going to hail out a lot more bullets to dodge.

I suppose at least part of this comes down to agility--which one is better at dodging. I would guess Bullseye but don't know. But I doubt he's enough of a better dodger to account for the higher rate of fire from Deadshot.

Some of the fight probably also comes down to character. Bullseye does have at least somewhat of a tendency to play with his food before he eats it. But, he tends to do that more with characters he has a history with than with random new opponents. This may again slightly disadvantage him, but not to a huge degree.

Basically Bullseye's main advantages--being probably a slightly better physical fighter, and being able to make weapons out of anything--aren't factors here due to the distance.

@elijah_c_washington: Do you mean when Deathstroke was being distracted by Bronze Tiger? And I know he's matched Slade on the draw but I don't think managing to hit Deathstroke while he's standing still is that great an accuracy feat, he's got good reflexes but it doesn't give us much information on his aim.

I haven't seen the New 52 instance but Slade may just be allowing his armour to take the damage, I'd have to have a look.

Crappy movie but sums it up for me.

@nima_: I don't believe spider-man was poisoned but he was injured from his fight with Daken. Not sure if he recovered from Daken's pheromones either, not really sure on the duration of his pheromones so that could have been a factor. The other time Bullseye tagged spider-man with a spider-tracer Peter had been shot with tracking bullets so he had a few bullet wounds in him (all though he was able to reangle his body so the bullets missed his vital organs).

He tagged Deathstroke when he was a) Not trying to dodge and b) pretty much showing off how much he could tank. New 52 Deathstroke could tank a lot and has been tagged by fodder because his durability, armor, & healing could handle it. And he was 100% bulletproof in the Pre 52 and they were just shooting at each other until one of them dropped.

Not a good example.

@jashro44: Ah I think I meant the phermones as the poison. I think his senses were off IIRC

@nima_ said:

I was referring to the Bronze Tiger and Deadshot Vs Deathstroke fight.

Yea Daken messed with his depth perception during there fight IIRC. Not sure if it impacted him later, but I guess its possible.

I'm really happy to see the Battle of the Week returning to its former glory, will be watching here, might argue for Bullseye, but not until I see more of Deadshot.

@thedandyman: @elijah_c_washington: Not really a good example. Bronze Tiger was distracting him plus Slade had just dodged his gun fire, it wasn't until Deathstroke had him pinned against a wall, leaving his wrist mounted guns exposed perfectly for a barrage of bullets to hit his torso/chest at point blank range - which was an uncharacteristically dumb move on Slade's part. (Deathstroke #41)

@nima_: Yeah, I think I know the example we're talking about :

@thedandyman: I love Deadshot but I think this BOTW is exposing that he has no real shooting feats against noted bullet timers or skilled opponents (at least ones with the right context). Admittedly, I think this is just sanctioned PIS against the character because he would be killing off main characters every week if that wasn't in effect. It's the reason he has trouble with archers...

I'm changing my vote to Bullseye...

@nima_: @jashro44:He's faced off against Spiderman several times.

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Plus he regularly fights characters who fight Spiderman, so it's not far fetched at all to say he's in Pete's league.

@thedandyman said:

I was referring to the Bronze Tiger and Deadshot Vs Deathstroke fight, yes. I remembered the fight wrong in all honesty.

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And I wasn't mentioning how that Slade got tagged in their Villains United fight. Just that he matched him on the draw.

@nima_: Like I said, my bad for remembering the fight wrong.

Floyd has also tagged Slade in Villains United but I cannot bring myself to consider it a feat. It involved no dodging or attempt at dodging, just a mutual agreement that they would have a standoff.

From what I've seen so far I think I might back Bullseye fully for the moment in this encounter. If he's agile enough to avoid Deadshot at long range distance and close the gap his chances of winning this double in his favor once he's at a medium distance and once within close range should seal the deal completely based on h2h showings. Another advantage for him is that he really is extremely unpredictable in battle to the point where he will even use his teeth as weapons.

@bflynn316 said:

Alright I'll make a case for Bullseye since nobody else is.

If we compare physicals, obviously Bullseye has the upper hand. The adamantium bones and possible healing factor (up for debate) give him a good strength/durability advantage. Add that with his H2H skills, and it's clear why he'd take the fight if it gets to close range. Here's an example of his close quarters combat skills against one of the best martial artists in the Marvel universe.

But nobody would make a case for Deadshot in close quarters combat anyway, so lets talk about why he can take him even with the range.

Bullseye vs Elektra: just to be clear, for those who don't know, that's the Skrull clone of Elektra. Of course, Bullseye has done generally well against the actual Elektra for various reasons, although in terms of wins and losses, he won their first fight and lost every one after that. I'd argue that a lot of his ability to stand up to her has come from her being emotionally handicapped due to when he killed her; since then she's essentially been irrationally afraid of him. As he said himself,

But, he has done better against her than most other people, and I do agree that he is a skilled martial artist. I just don't think this one scan is a good example of that since it's really a Skrull, and also because she's beaten him so consistently.

Yeah this is what you're talking about right?

It's a good feat to show how durable his armor is, but it definitely doesn't show he can tag a bullet timer, which is what we're trying to figure out.

@nima_: I imagine a major reason people were going with Deadshot is because of the fact that bullets are faster than throwing stars and that kind of equipment. It's true that Deadshot would probably be able to hit most of Bullseye's projectiles as he did against Green Arrow but now we know that Bullseye's equipped with a gun I feel more confident in supporting him. He's shown to be skilled with firearms, even managing to hit Daredevil using one, and Deadshot isn't particularly fast so if he's being serious then he should tag him. Deadshot's bullet resistant armour'll be useful but I don't know that it'll be enough to protect him.

Another reason I imagine people were going with Deadshot is because they expected him to have some better accuracy feats against bullet-timers but as we're discovering he doesn't really seem to have anything particularly impressive in this respect and Bullseye could be considered a bullet-timer so getting a good shot on him is going to be difficult.

The only big cause for me to hold back on my judgement at the moment is whether or not Lester's arrogance will get in the way. I'll back him up for the moment though.

@owie: Oh my bad, I didn't know that was back when she was being imitated by a skrull.

@bflynn316: Yep, that's it. I was mostly adding to the encounters between Slade and Floyd, not partaking to the debate on whether Deadshot can hit bullet timers or not.

I think that Deadshot wins. Sure, Bulleye has the superior H2H skills and physicals, but he will have trouble getting past Deadshot's armour. With two people who are as accurate as these two are, they will both try to keep their distance and that's how the fight will be decided. If Bullseye requires more than one shot to penetrate Floyd's armour, he will be killed as Deadshot is arguably the quicker draw. Bullseye is also known for throwing improvised weapons, which will be useless against Deadshot's armour.

Gotcha. What is your take on if he can hit a bullet timer? Or are you undecided.

@bflynn316: My initial reaction is to say yes. I used to have extensive scans on Deadshot but to be frank, due to long years of not reading comics or debating here, I no longer remember his feats off hand in the same way that I do, say, Slade's.

@thedandyman: I think Bullseye is more than capable of figuring out that he's likely got to hit Deadshot in his monocle. If he does, he is screwed (Bullseye often does target weak points with projectiles). Now it's Deadshot trying to shoot at a deadly, skilled bullet timer with one eye taken out.