Battle of the Three fighting styles (DD vs Cap vs IF)

*Stats are equalized

*MCU versions

*No Iron Fist

*Street Clothes

First up the Aggressive

-Daredevil. One of the most prominent fighters in the MCU. Has a knack for punching the crap out of you before you get a chance to utter a word.

Second

The Tactical

Captain America. One of the most strategic fighters in the MCU. If you look through most of his fights he starts off on the defensive then slowly breaks down his opponents.

Third

The Fluid

Iron Fist. Makes every move look easy. Don't be so easily fooled by this one. He can be as flexible as a snake and still strike you with the strength of an Ox.

Who wins?

Note: I know these aren't actual fighting styles but how these fighters approach each fight.

Do they have equipment or is this a unarmed fight? If they have their equipment, Steve wins due to his shield, no contest. Assuming unarmed:

If they are equalized to Matt/Danny levels then I'd back Matt. Any of them can take the others out with just a few full force strikes, and being aggressive combined with the highest pain tolerance should come with victory.

If they are equalized to Cap level, I'd back Cap with the possibility of Danny. Cap's durability is high enough that he should easily shake off multiple hit from people his level, giving someone like Steve a longer amount of time to start analyzing. Danny is the most skilled in raw hand to hand, but Captain America just seems like the better fighter, and has more experience dealing with people on his level.

Matt most likely.

@firstolympian: No equipment.

As for stats equalized it's however you want to interpret it. This is mostly a battle of skill.

@comicace3: @rbt: @firstolympian:

You have to give this to Danny Rand's Iron Fist. He is, far and away, the most skilled fighter of the three and has the most H2H fighting experience against the best H2H competition. Danny has 15 years of nothing but focused H2H training in a tournament-style culture, that only elevates the best of the best of the best. He is the ultimate H2H fighter of his generation, undefeated before returning to our world and no one comes close to defeating him H2H after returning to our world. Daredevil only seems to have 1 year of training with stick when he was a child, sporadic self-taught boxing lessons, and 2 years of combat experience on the streets as a vigilante. He also never focused solely on H2H, using Escrima sticks. Cap only has a few weeks of basic military training and a few years of combat experience before he was frozen, and a year or so of training and a few more years of combat experience after the thaw with the Avengers/Shield. Let's be generous and say it's 7 years of training/coombat experience, but most of it revolved around fighting with his Shield and the occasional firearm. If we equalize their powers/weight/speed, Danny can't be beaten, not by these two, not without another decade of exclusive H2H training/combat experience.

Cap is the best fighter here. More efficient, more tactically aware, and better spatial manipulation. The other two have huge openings and vastly inferior fundamentals. With cap, they would have to force a mistaken and neither of them really do that in their fights. They attackn and depend on either a physical advantage, or their oppoents propensity to make errors. Lock either of them in a cage with Steve, and I bet good money Steve walks out, even with stats scaled.

Stats equalized DD takes it.

If they are equalized in stats it's pretty much pick your favorite.

So cap I guess lol

1. Steve

2. Matt

3. Danny

I'd give it to Cap, mainly because of experience

1. Steve

2. Matt

3. Danny

@rogueshadow@buildhare@arcus1@ithemanwithoutfeari@sirfizzwhizz@angeljax

@jashro44

Thoughts?

As of Iron Fist season 1

Matt

Steve

Danny

I expect Danny to top the ranking once he's able to hone his skill and emotions.

I assume Matt still has his radar sense since it's a huge part of his fighting style and otherwise he can't fight at all. If so than Matt easily. Then Danny then cap. Danny is skilled but people here wildly overestimate him, the hand he was fighting was half trained street kids and a super unimpressive gauntlet which without pis the bride of nine spiders could have killed him any time. Caps only non enhanced fighting experience is getting his ass beat in Brooklyn, everything else was based on his incredible physicals, he was never trained in anything.

Danny>Matt>=Steve

Honestly anyone could of them could win here....

Matt: One of the most skilled fighters in the MCU, probably has the best pain tolerance here, senses would keep him ahead of the fight.

Cap: About as skilled as Matt, is best tactician here, great pain tolerance

Danny: Likely the best in terms of technical skill, just falls short in pain tolerance, most fluid fighter

I'll side with my boy Matt due to senses helping him anticipate moves but honestly I know I could make a compelling case for each of them.

In theory, probably Danny by virtue of technical experience. I got the feeling that he was a bit above Daredevil's level, and while Cap's hard to place, logically he's probably not better in terms of raw skill than Danny. For comparison's sake I view him as being roughly Daredevil level (just my gut feeling more than anything)

That being said, Cap's tendency to hang back and analyze could serve him well in a three way fight. If he lets Danny and Matt do the brunt of the fighting at first, it gives him time to pick up on their styles, and to let them punch themselves out, which could allow him to take a win.

He got training in the military in WWII and then a lot more training with SHIELD after Avengers 1, it was even mentioned in interviews about upgrading Cap's fighting style. So he's definitely trained

I agree with this except it doesn't take into account internal factors like will, toughness and special abilitys like matts hearing. that said danny, a serious danny takes this effortlessly followed by matt then steve.

and as for steve

Daredevil and Danny obviously have more technical skill, Danny might even be better experienced what with his fifteen years as a warrior monk in the Himalayas, but Cap is just more efficient. That much is evident in the majority of his fights. I'd bet on someone like him.

@zill0678 said:

@cramandman said:

@comicace3: @rbt: @firstolympian:

You have to give this to Danny Rand's Iron Fist. He is, far and away, the most skilled fighter of the three and has the most H2H fighting experience against the best H2H competition. Danny has 15 years of nothing but focused H2H training in a tournament-style culture, that only elevates the best of the best of the best. He is the ultimate H2H fighter of his generation, undefeated before returning to our world and no one comes close to defeating him H2H after returning to our world. Daredevil only seems to have 1 year of training with stick when he was a child, sporadic self-taught boxing lessons, and 2 years of combat experience on the streets as a vigilante. He also never focused solely on H2H, using Escrima sticks. Cap only has a few weeks of basic military training and a few years of combat experience before he was frozen, and a year or so of training and a few more years of combat experience after the thaw with the Avengers/Shield. Let's be generous and say it's 7 years of training/coombat experience, but most of it revolved around fighting with his Shield and the occasional firearm. If we equalize their powers/weight/speed, Danny can't be beaten, not by these two, not without another decade of exclusive H2H training/combat experience.

I agree with this except it doesn't take into account internal factors like will, toughness and special abilitys like matts hearing. that said danny, a serious danny takes this effortlessly followed by matt then steve.

and as for steve

Well said. I think it's really difficult to take internal factors like will and toughness into account. All three men know how to take a beating and keep fighting, when shot, stabbed and assaulted. Matt's special abilities like hearing and smell are hard to measure against Danny's skill at anticipating his opponents next move. If Matt had his escrima sticks, I might give him the win over Danny, but in just H2H, you gotta go with the Iron Fist.

@arcus1: Ok, I never saw that interview. However, only shield training applies as ww2 training would in no way incorporate martial arts, particularly since they only wanted to use him to sell bonds.

As to matt v Danny, I didn't see anything putting Danny above s2 Matt. As I said, the hand Matt fought were ninjas capable of making absolutely no sound and were willing to murder strangers, some of which were already resurrected. Danny's hand were kids who didn't even know what the hand really was. Just look at Danny vs a couple of hatchetmen compared to Matt vs the entire dogs of hell. Matt wasn't even touched until the end and put down the first 20 or so armed men with no difficulty.

Danny >= Matt > Steve

Steve is the best strategist though. Just not as skilled on a technical level.

That's not true. Matt was tagged a few times and definitely had trouble putting them down for the count.

At the very least he went through basic training, and once he started seeing combat it's logical he would've had some training

Danny fought like 4 hatchetmen at once, got tagged once, then 0 times fighting 3 at once in the elevator

Matt definitely got tagged in the dogs of hell fight

Danny's style FTW

@dstreet45: fair enough, been a while since I watched the fight. Do you deny that Matt vs the DOH is still more impressive than Danny vs the Hatchetmen? Do you deny that matts hand > Danny's hand?

in universe I'd say Danny

a big part of DD is him being able to tank hits and get sewn up later by Claire

Cap usually wins because of his massive stats, and even with that advantage he didn't do that much better than Batroc

@arcus1: 1v4 does not equal 1v20. Look at Matt literally the second he learns how to "see" the hand, he immediately one shots 4 hand ninjas after getting beaten on by 4 "invisible" opponents.

For bonus DD points, his durability/damage soak is far above Danny

Steve is better technically and fundamentally as well. You guys...just stop.

Steve, no contest. He's simply faster and his techniques are more focused and precise.

It's not like he fought all 20 at once, they came at him in pairs, 3 at a time at most

And Danny can one-shot plenty of fodder too

Based on choreography?

Based on skill. And really the "bad choreography" apology from Fist backers as an excuse for why he really isn't that impressive is old already.

...the choreography part was addressed to paytience, that's why I quoted him...?

It's addressed to him sure, but it's clear that you were trying to undermine his argument with the "choreography" excuse that keeps getting repeated by Fist supporters.

...his point's about Daredevil too...

And yeah, if we're taking choreography into account, then choreography limitations should be taken into account. The actor doesn't have extensive martial arts experience, and since Danny doesn't wear a mask yet, they had to shoot scenes in a way that wouldn't reveal the stunt double. Don't see why that shouldn't be at the very least acknowledged

Depends on the factors. In terms of determining H2H skill I'd place Danny vs Hatchet Men higher. They were skilled in CQC (helped Danny take on the Yakuza) and Danny was barely tagged in that fight.

Depends on which Hand. If it's the Nobu's Hand vs the students in the compound then I'd side with Nobu's Hand. If it's Bakuto's guards in Episode 12 then I'd go with them.

And IMO, Madame Gao had most "non fodder" Hand ninjas at her disposal in the sense that they were noted for a particular purpose. King, the guy Danny fought in the truck, was tasked with guarding the chemist and was killed for his failure. He outright claimed that Danny was skilled and knew how to fight which prompted Gao to challenge Danny to the tournament. The Dog Brothers, Bride of the Nine Spiders, and Scythe were, according to Danny, the best Madame Gao had to offer. Zhou Cheng was a guard to one of Madame Gao's facilities and gave Danny a tough fight. And another guard was able to disarm Colleen in swordplay. Not sure how her fodder really stacks up but I wouldn't be surprised if they were as good Nobu's Hand if not better.

It's a lazy excuse for a sloppy fight, especially when we are looking at the same production company for all 3 combatants here. Sure they are gonna spend more on a movie (Steve), but that doesn't excuse why Daredevil's fights look so much more convincing. You can still use a stunt-double without a mask if you have competent camera work. Sorry, but bad excuse is bad.

I'm sorry you were so disappointed in the fights

Now granted, choreography is hardly the only thing that matters when debating fictional characters

@arcus1: Danny didn't one shot the kiddy hand or the hatchetmen or the copy room thug or the shipping container thug, or the featless butcher bros, or the BONS, for gods sake, look how long he took to put down Harold with a pistol. Saying he can is not the same as feats.

Danny. Bad choreography or not, in verse he's clearly shown to be superior in raw skill.

1 Danny has hands down more skill and experience.

2/3 Steve/Matt Steve is more experienced and Matt probably has more endurance

He even hit the guy in the copy room with a chi punch, and still managed to lose.

Here's some feats (not all-inclusive)

One shotting one of Bakuto's guards: the same guys who were giving Davos and Colleen solid fights

Shipping container "thug" was a Hand warrior who got killed for his failure. The butcher brothers were brought to the challenge because they were (as stated by Danny) the best Gao had to offer. Same with Bride of Nine Spiders (yes, she relied on her poison, because that's the weapon that makes her so dangerous).

He one-shotted tons of the Hand at Bakuto's compound, as shown above. He also one-shotted some of the hatchetmen, as shown above

Considering the copy room thug performed way better than average fodder, it's safe to assume he wasn't intended to be average fodder

As for Harold, Danny was an emotional mess for that fight, and we both know some plot was involved (it's a fictional story, that's to be expected)

@arcus1: Bud, you can't use bad choreography as an excuse. We are discussing the versions of the characters given to us by the shows. That's like saying Rambo should beat Lee from enter the dragon h2h just because Rambo had an actor who didn't know martial arts and had bad choreography.

Except at the end of the day it's fiction, and choreography's not the only factor that goes into judging a fight. Even if a fight isn't particularly well choreographed, it can still convey a very impressive feat, while a well choreographed fight might not actually be as impressive of a feat

I mean, what's more impressive: fighting 2 fodder guys in a well choreographed fight, or fighting 4 in a less well choreographed fight (assume equivalent fodder)

Hm. That's not a good example. Rambo's more known for his battle strategy, and experience the military, not necessarily in H2H. These shows and the movie with Bruce Lee all display these people as martial artists. Bad choreography or not the meaning behind the choreography is still there. And this is coming from someone who didn't like the IF choreography as much.

@arcus1: Danny thought the hand was a myth, he has no knowledge of the outside world. He is just assuming they are the best the hand has. If they were the best the hand has and bakuto is the leader why was bakuto not summoned? Is he the best or not? I thought he was Danny's big bad?

Bakuto was a different faction of the Hand, he doesn't work for Gao. Those were the best Gao had to summon, which would at the very least indicate they're very skilled (arguably at least as skilled as Bakuto if not more so, judging by their respective fights with Danny), not necessarily the best possible Hand fighter in the entire world or something

Bakuto's one of the main villains, Harold was probably the primary one though, at least considering he's the one who got the finale fight. In terms of combat ability, Davos was at least implied to be the closest to Danny's equal in hand to hand

Plus Danny participated in that kind of challenge in Kun Lun, so he knew how it operated

And yet copy room guy wasn't even named, nor did he ever show back up again. Clearly random copy room (it was actually a records room but whatever) guy is the greatest martial artist in the MCU (while besides Kyle of course) since he was able to best Danny even after having an arm broken by a chi punch.

Also, the gif in the bottom center looks like Danny cowering from two people randomly punching air in his general direction. Most the Hand students from the fight on the bottom left get back up. Top right is a poorly excited jump kick that doesn't connect properly, but I guess that's choreography.

You realize copy room guy didn't beat Danny, right? Danny was quite clearly winning, but the guy managed to light the fire and escape while Danny rescued the actual guard

When Danny and Davos were leaving the compound, we saw tons of students lying on the ground. Choreography doesn't discredit the feat, because this is a work of fiction, and ultimately the story is what matters most. A one-shot is a one-shot, even if you don't like how it was filmed