Battle between the teams from the end of "Avengers vs X-Men" 1

Avatar image for owie
owie

9544

Forum Posts

286670

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 16

User Lists: 0

#1  Edited By owie  Moderator

I've been thinking about doing some battles that are set up in the comics but we don't know the result yet (or, where the battle ends up being unresolved due to plot issues).

For instance, in Avengers vs X-Men #1, a group of X-Men are about to fight a group of Avengers.

Who do you think SHOULD win this battle, with PIS off, and with all the characters in character. We will assume that all members of both teams will take the fight seriously (i.e. we will ignore Emma's seeming unhappiness with the fight), and there will be no switching of loyalties (i.e., Wolverine will fight the X-Men without any qualms.) We will also assume that while there are certainly other mutants on the island, only the ones listed here will take part in the fight.

The teams, as seen in the comic, are:

X-Men: Cyclops, Colossus, Emma, Hope, Namor, Magneto, Danger, Warpath, and Domino. (There are also two others I can't identify, so I'll just leave them out.)

Avengers: Captain America, Dr. Strange, Thing, Spider-Woman, Giant Man, Wolverine, Hawkeye, Red Hulk, Luke Cage, Mockingbird, Iron Fist, Iron Man, Black Widow, Spider-Man, Black Panther, and Daredevil.

Cyclops and Captain America are near each other in the shallows of the water, and are slightly apart from the others. The X-Men are on the beach. The Avengers are all on a helicarrier hovering above the beach. The non-flying Avengers all have weblines, courtesy of Spider-Man, that they can use to get down.

Who wins? How?

Avatar image for pooty
pooty

16236

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 0

#2  Edited By pooty

@Owie: I don't see the avengers having an answer for Magneto or Hope. I mean not even a glimmer of hope.(get it?)

Avatar image for saren
Saren

27947

Forum Posts

213824

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 14

User Lists: 12

#3  Edited By Saren

@pooty: Iron Man can take out Magneto and Hope at the same time.

Avatar image for trueilluminatus
TrueIlluminatus

9579

Forum Posts

18169

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 0

#4  Edited By TrueIlluminatus

Avengers, more than likely. Namor and Colossus will be a problem, but Strange should be able to heal/assist anyone who gets too badly injured in the ensuing battle so that the Avengers can keep up a constant offensive.

Avatar image for pooty
pooty

16236

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 0

#5  Edited By pooty

@CitizenBane: How does he get past Mags force field? Iron Mans new suits don't contain metal or something?

Avatar image for trueilluminatus
TrueIlluminatus

9579

Forum Posts

18169

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 0

#6  Edited By TrueIlluminatus
@pooty said:

@CitizenBane: How does he get past Mags force field? Iron Mans new suits don't contain metal or something?

I believe Tony's suit has been outfitted with ferro-magnetic materials.
Avatar image for saren
Saren

27947

Forum Posts

213824

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 14

User Lists: 12

#7  Edited By Saren

@pooty: By blasting it repeatedly. And before anyone brings up some insanely old scans of Magneto tanking hits from Thor, Phoenix and the One Above All all at the same time: he's too old for that sh!t. And Tony's suit has been immune to magnetic manipulation for a couple of decades now, despite what Mags' latest mini would have you believe.

Avatar image for saren
Saren

27947

Forum Posts

213824

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 14

User Lists: 12

#8  Edited By Saren

@pooty:

No Caption Provided

And this from outdated armor. Magneto recently fought Iron Lad and lost in The Children's Crusade.

Avatar image for pooty
pooty

16236

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 0

#9  Edited By pooty

@CitizenBane: That changes things then.

Avatar image for jeanroygrant
jeanroygrant

20442

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 0

#10  Edited By jeanroygrant

@Illuminatus said:

Avengers, more than likely. Namor and Colossus will be a problem, but Strange should be able to heal/assist anyone who gets too badly injured in the ensuing battle so that the Avengers can keep up a constant offensive.
Avatar image for sandiego008
sandiego008

3419

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 0

#11  Edited By sandiego008

First read thought avenger stomp .... after thinking about it for awhile I'm unsure ... they got numbers ( 16 vs 9) ... and they also have some powerhouses ... but power houses are

Colossus, Emma, Hope, Namor, Magneto, Danger

vs

Dr. Strange, Thing , Red Hulk, Iron Man

just looking at power houses x-men have more .. with IM and Dr. strange carrying the avengers.

.. and after thinking about it even more ... x-men win this due to how their power houses match up against the avenger strong guys.

Avatar image for chiq
chiq

4385

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 0

#12  Edited By chiq

How do they take out Danger? She can reform from nothing. Can stark hack into her? Can Danger use technopathy or absorb stark's tech? Can her sonics affect strange? She has a ton of powers.

I guess Strange can bfr her, colossus, etc...Does current strange have great teleportation feats? Can Emma or Hope mindrape Strange?

Avatar image for owie
owie

9544

Forum Posts

286670

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 16

User Lists: 0

#13  Edited By owie  Moderator

@CitizenBane said:

@pooty: Iron Man can take out Magneto and Hope at the same time.

What about Emma shutting down Iron Man's mind? Does he have psychic dampers? I've heard vague rumors of them but never actually seen it.

Also, in the recent Magneto mini that you mentioned, Magneto wasn't able to control Stark's armor (at least in the first issue....I stopped after the second issue, so maybe there's another confrontation between them later on?). But Magento countered that fact by lifting up a bunch of cars outside that he could theoretically smash him with, which seemed to forestall Tony. (Although really Stark's armor would obviously hold up to that kind of barrage.) But in this case, Magneto has a whole helicarrier to play with. On the one hand, he could just sweep the whole helicarrier away, taking every non-flying Avenger with it. Or, he could use it to wrap around Tony, making a huge cocoon. He might be able to blast his way out, but it would take time.

Magneto recently fought Iron Lad and lost in The Children's Crusade.

Are you referring to when Iron Lad made a containment field over both Doom and Magneto, separating them? I went through it all and didn't see any other fight. I think this is actually a pretty good example of how much more advanced Iron Lad's armor is than Tony's, so it's not really relevant. Tony's never been able to do anything on the scale of one-shotting Doom and Magneto simultaneously. But in any case, Magneto then broke out of it a couple pages later.

Also, since you brought up Children's Crusade, Magneto's shields deflect repulsor blasts from Iron Man twice in issue 2, blasts from Doom's gauntlets in issues 4 and 5, and from Cyclops in issue 6. So his shields are still not so bad.

Also, Danger could use her power to control Tony's armor. I think he's one of the Avenger's major players in this fight, but I don't see him taking out Magneto instantaneously. I'm less clear on Hope's powers, but she can copy other's powers, right? So she could copy Colossus, Emma, and Cyclops, for instance, and almost double the effectiveness of the X-Men's side.

@sandiego008 said:

First read thought avenger stomp .... after thinking about it for awhile I'm unsure ... they got numbers ( 16 vs 9) ... and they also have some powerhouses ... but power houses are

Colossus, Emma, Hope, Namor, Magneto, Danger

vs

Dr. Strange, Thing , Red Hulk, Iron Man

just looking at power houses x-men have more .. with IM and Dr. strange carrying the avengers.

.. and after thinking about it even more ... x-men win this due to how their power houses match up against the avenger strong guys.

I tend to see it like this, except I'd take Thing out of the lineup for the Avenger's powerhouses. My one major question for this battle is how effective Dr. Strange is now. I think most of the Avengers are too street level for this fight.

Avatar image for saren
Saren

27947

Forum Posts

213824

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 14

User Lists: 12

#14  Edited By Saren

@Owie: I believe Iron Man does have a significant level of resistance to telepathy owing to the fact that his mind is now more machine than organic, and Rulk might be able to circumvent it on account of the Hulk family's on again/off again resistance to telepathy because of how angry they are (as explanations go, that's kind of stupid, but apparently that's how it works). In Magneto: Not A Hero #1, Iron Man had to don a suit made out of rubber as a precaution against Magneto. I find it hard to believe he'd need to do that, considering his outdated armors were immune to being directly affected by Magneto's powers. Not sure if Magneto would do something like that to the helicarrier in morals (it's hard to tell with characters of his moral bend), but depending on the conditions of the fight Tony could pull a Void and drop the helicarrier on Utopia.

Yeah, I was talking about their encounter in The Children's Crusade. I seemed to remember it differently for some reason (I thought Mags and IL fought) but after going through it, you're right.

I believed Magneto's shield wouldn't be as outlandishly durable as they were in his hey day mainly because that was the impression I got from when he joined the X-Men in Nation X. He told Nightcrawler that he wasn't as powerful as he used to be because of his age, and some of the stuff that happened in that arc supported that: he collapsed after killing a Predator, for instance. Although that plot point seems to have been set aside by later writers.......the only other instance I can remember along those lines would be when he fought Endgame and got smacked down while trying to manipulate his body.

I don't think Danger could manipulate Tony's armor. I think it's more likely to be the other way around. For starters, Tony has more and better technopathy feats, and if they both tried to manipulate each other at the same time, Tony would win because post-Extremis his mind operates at picosecond-level speed. Since his technopathy functions off his thoughts, he'd be able to work his magic faster than Danger could work hers.

Hope mimics powers, but she lacks the experience to use them as effectively as their original holders (which is probably why Exodus could easily beat her even after she mimicked all his powers). She only takes mutant abilities, so she wouldn't be able to take anything from Colossus beyond his innate mutant powers. Since the Avengers came to the island to retrieve her in the first place, they'd probably be prepped on how her powers work -- in which case Strange could do what Unit did in Uncanny X-Men #9 and BFR the X-Men's heavy hitters away from the battlefield, restricting the kinds of powers she has access to.

Avatar image for rickbarry
Rickbarry

2005

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 0

#15  Edited By Rickbarry

Magneto crushes the helicarrier, thinning their numbers significantly. X-men mop up whomever is left.

Avatar image for owie
owie

9544

Forum Posts

286670

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 16

User Lists: 0

#16  Edited By owie  Moderator

@CitizenBane said:

@Owie: I believe Iron Man does have a significant level of resistance to telepathy owing to the fact that his mind is now more machine than organic, and Rulk might be able to circumvent it on account of the Hulk family's on again/off again resistance to telepathy because of how angry they are (as explanations go, that's kind of stupid, but apparently that's how it works). In Magneto: Not A Hero #1, Iron Man had to don a suit made out of rubber as a precaution against Magneto. I find it hard to believe he'd need to do that, considering his outdated armors were immune to being directly affected by Magneto's powers. Not sure if Magneto would do something like that to the helicarrier in morals (it's hard to tell with characters of his moral bend), but depending on the conditions of the fight Tony could pull a Void and drop the helicarrier on Utopia.

Yeah, I was talking about their encounter in The Children's Crusade. I seemed to remember it differently for some reason (I thought Mags and IL fought) but after going through it, you're right.

I believed Magneto's shield wouldn't be as outlandishly durable as they were in his hey day mainly because that was the impression I got from when he joined the X-Men in Nation X. He told Nightcrawler that he wasn't as powerful as he used to be because of his age, and some of the stuff that happened in that arc supported that: he collapsed after killing a Predator, for instance. Although that plot point seems to have been set aside by later writers.......the only other instance I can remember along those lines would be when he fought Endgame and got smacked down while trying to manipulate his body.

I don't think Danger could manipulate Tony's armor. I think it's more likely to be the other way around. For starters, Tony has more and better technopathy feats, and if they both tried to manipulate each other at the same time, Tony would win because post-Extremis his mind operates at picosecond-level speed. Since his technopathy functions off his thoughts, he'd be able to work his magic faster than Danger could work hers.

Hope mimics powers, but she lacks the experience to use them as effectively as their original holders (which is probably why Exodus could easily beat her even after she mimicked all his powers). She only takes mutant abilities, so she wouldn't be able to take anything from Colossus beyond his innate mutant powers. Since the Avengers came to the island to retrieve her in the first place, they'd probably be prepped on how her powers work -- in which case Strange could do what Unit did in Uncanny X-Men #9 and BFR the X-Men's heavy hitters away from the battlefield, restricting the kinds of powers she has access to.

I can believe Tony has TP resistance. Is his mind literally more machine than organic now? I've read about the extremis stuff but haven't followed in detail. I didn't think it actually affected his physical brain.

I tend to see Rulk as not being able to avoid TP, but you're right that the Hulks do tend to be TP resistant sometimes. I'm trying to think of an instance where's he's gone up against that. Also, Rulk's character/power isn't really based in anger, so he probably wouldn't have the increase in TP resistance that comes along with the normal Hulk's increase in anger.

On thinking about it, I agree that with morals on, as we have here, Mags is probably not literally going to wrap the helicarrier around Stark due to the normal SHIELD people inside. But he might well rip off a chunk of it and do it on a smaller scale. The island is all ferrous and he could rip a chunk off the island and encapsulate him with that too.

I do think Mags is less powerful now than before, due to age, but the repulsor blasts are well within his range still. Plus Tony is probably not going to be going all out, as his morals are on as well.

What kind of technopathy feats does Tony have, on a level of manipulating something on Danger's level (being a mix of advanced Earth tech and especially Shi'ar tech)? I mean, I think that would be on a level of him trying to manipulate Ultron or something similar.

I agree that Hope's less skilled with her copied powers, although she did reasonably well against Sinister with Emma's TP. And yes she wouldn't be able to get Colossus' Juggernaut powers. But even just amping Emma's TP would help a fair amount. I'm not sure who would win an a battle between Emma's TP and (current) Dr. Strange.

I could see Strange BFR them (or just Hope), that's the Avengers' best option from my point of view. I think the Avengers made a mistake not bringing Thor, who's back in the Avengers in Spider-Man: Ends of the Earth.

Avatar image for czarny_samael666
czarny_samael666

17185

Forum Posts

5

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 0

#17  Edited By czarny_samael666

In character? X-Men still wins. Emma currently put all Avengers to sleep in Children's Crusade. So only question is: Who really will survive it? Iron Man and Strange are the only ones. 
I don't belive that I can take Juggy, maybe he can take out Namor - maybe. Against Magneto I would choose Tony as a winner, but after a hard battle. In this case he doesn't have a chance. 
 
Besides, X-Men have real powerhouses, while Avengers have a group of street levels + Strange, Rulk, Thing and Iron Man. I don't see Avengers winning this without PIS at all. @CitizenBane said:

@Owie: I believe Iron Man does have a significant level of resistance to telepathy owing to the fact that his mind is now more machine than organic, and Rulk might be able to circumvent it on account of the Hulk family's on again/off again resistance to telepathy because of how angry they are (as explanations go, that's kind of stupid, but apparently that's how it works). In Magneto: Not A Hero #1, Iron Man had to don a suit made out of rubber as a precaution against Magneto. I find it hard to believe he'd need to do that, considering his outdated armors were immune to being directly affected by Magneto's powers. Not sure if Magneto would do something like that to the helicarrier in morals (it's hard to tell with characters of his moral bend), but depending on the conditions of the fight Tony could pull a Void and drop the helicarrier on Utopia.

Yeah, I was talking about their encounter in The Children's Crusade. I seemed to remember it differently for some reason (I thought Mags and IL fought) but after going through it, you're right.

I believed Magneto's shield wouldn't be as outlandishly durable as they were in his hey day mainly because that was the impression I got from when he joined the X-Men in Nation X. He told Nightcrawler that he wasn't as powerful as he used to be because of his age, and some of the stuff that happened in that arc supported that: he collapsed after killing a Predator, for instance. Although that plot point seems to have been set aside by later writers.......the only other instance I can remember along those lines would be when he fought Endgame and got smacked down while trying to manipulate his body.

I don't think Danger could manipulate Tony's armor. I think it's more likely to be the other way around. For starters, Tony has more and better technopathy feats, and if they both tried to manipulate each other at the same time, Tony would win because post-Extremis his mind operates at picosecond-level speed. Since his technopathy functions off his thoughts, he'd be able to work his magic faster than Danger could work hers.

Hope mimics powers, but she lacks the experience to use them as effectively as their original holders (which is probably why Exodus could easily beat her even after she mimicked all his powers). She only takes mutant abilities, so she wouldn't be able to take anything from Colossus beyond his innate mutant powers. Since the Avengers came to the island to retrieve her in the first place, they'd probably be prepped on how her powers work -- in which case Strange could do what Unit did in Uncanny X-Men #9 and BFR the X-Men's heavy hitters away from the battlefield, restricting the kinds of powers she has access to.

1.Ask Morpheus_ for scans, I know that he ones proved that Tony is completly immune. It also isn't that suprising, considering that such a tech was a standard for X-Men's enemies years ago. 
2.You're underestimating Magneto. He currently defeated Proteus and has proven that his powers are still greater than Polaris. Not too mention that he summoned Kitty's bullet what seemed to be impossible for any other person according to Beast. 
3.Magneto currelty droped an aircraft carrier on Kuurth, so he shouldn't have a problems with doing the same against Avengers. Still IMO reaction speed is what can give Tony win in this encounter. 
4.Stranger will be busy with Emma, since he is the only one that can effectively fight in Astral Plane from Avengers.
Avatar image for venomoushatred1001
venomoushatred1001

12469

Forum Posts

111

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 1

Avengers.

Avatar image for czarny_samael666
czarny_samael666

17185

Forum Posts

5

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 0

#19  Edited By czarny_samael666
@venomoushatred1001 said:
Avengers.
How?
Avatar image for bigcimmerian
bigcimmerian

10340

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 0

#20  Edited By bigcimmerian

Where is Thor here?

Avatar image for bmezy
BMEZY

1270

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 0

#21  Edited By BMEZY

@BigCimmerian: I think thor would make it just a little unfair, don't you thinK?

Avatar image for czarny_samael666
czarny_samael666

17185

Forum Posts

5

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 0

#22  Edited By czarny_samael666
@BMEZY said:

@BigCimmerian: I think thor would make it just a little unfair, don't you thinK?

Acctually... In morals it he wouldn't. Thor will just stand against Juggernaut. Namor can hold Iron Man. Bring here Magik for Cyke's team and Emma is free to use psionic powers on others, which means that others already will be down. 
Now, with Cable back without his TO virus, I don't see X-Men losing this without PIS.
Avatar image for pooty
pooty

16236

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 0

#23  Edited By pooty

@czarny_samael666: Without the TO virus, does Cable have his TP/TK back? If so at what levels are they? If not, what powers does he currently have?

Avatar image for skaddix
Skaddix

3109

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 0

#24  Edited By Skaddix

Thor is not present he is in Space with Vision, Carol, War Machine, Captain Britain and others. Therefore Cap has four big guns: iron man, rulk, thing, and doctor strange.

Cable has no feats since his TO Virus removal. Scott has the Extinction Team, Security Team, Gen Hope, and assorted others. New Mutants as well probably.

Still assuming every avenger is immune to tp, they take it based on OP rosters. no resistance means everyone except iron man and maybe rulk and doc strange fall which should result in a quick x-men win.

Avatar image for saren
Saren

27947

Forum Posts

213824

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 14

User Lists: 12

#25  Edited By Saren

@czarny_samael666: He beat Proteus as a result of colossal CIS on MacTaggert's part. Nothing more. Summoning Kitty's bullet took days on end and almost cost him his life.....not the best point to make.

Avatar image for the_stegman
the_stegman

41911

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 1

#26  Edited By the_stegman  Moderator

A non jobbed Dr. Strange and Thor should be all the Avengers need.

Avatar image for saren
Saren

27947

Forum Posts

213824

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 14

User Lists: 12

#27  Edited By Saren

@Skaddix said:

Cable has no feats since his TO Virus removal

Why would he need any? All his old feats still apply.

Avatar image for manchine
Manchine

6360

Forum Posts

7931

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 2

#28  Edited By Manchine

I really don't see Xmen winning this.

Avatar image for czarny_samael666
czarny_samael666

17185

Forum Posts

5

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 0

#29  Edited By czarny_samael666
@pooty said:

@czarny_samael666: Without the TO virus, does Cable have his TP/TK back? If so at what levels are they? If not, what powers does he currently have?

I agree with:
@CitizenBane said:

@Skaddix said:

Cable has no feats since his TO Virus removal

Why would he need any? All his old feats still apply.


_______________
 
@CitizenBane said:

@czarny_samael666: He beat Proteus as a result of colossal CIS on MacTaggert's part. Nothing more. Summoning Kitty's bullet took days on end and almost cost him his life.....not the best point to make.


Why? Proteus always had problem with metals. 
And he still did something that was suggest to be impossible. For me it is a great feat, since X-Men pretty much always knew Magneto's power level.
Avatar image for skaddix
Skaddix

3109

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 0

#30  Edited By Skaddix

@CitizenBane said:

@czarny_samael666: He beat Proteus as a result of colossal CIS on MacTaggert's part. Nothing more. Summoning Kitty's bullet took days on end and almost cost him his life.....not the best point to make.

Well to be fair the bullet was light years away and out of the solar system so that was a difficult feat in my book. And I am not sure what to compare it to because this is the first time Magneto did a feat like that to my knowledge so I don't see how it counts as proof of weakness. Besides this was all under Fraction everyone had a healthly dose of pis, cis, and nerfs so Scott Summers could look good.

As for Cable, I am not even sure where he is after the end of X-Sanction. As for why I don't credit Marvel with consistency, its not their strong point.

@ Stegman

Again Thor not present, he is in space. Strange is clearly weaker so its not really jobbing but in a sense your right because he is gotta carry his team. Colossus should be Rulk, Namor should crush Thing in the water, and Iron Man quite frankly should lose to Magneto even if Magneto is weaker then usual. An EMP should get the job done but this is Marvel so logic is probably worthless.

On the matter of Proteus. I am still wondering why Magneto was not dead. I remember Proteus converting all the iron in magneto's blood to arsenic or something which should have proved fatal quite quickly.

Avatar image for strider1992
Strider1992

18531

Forum Posts

5604

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 16

User Lists: 10

#31  Edited By Strider1992

Gonna put my money on the Avengers as they've got a whole hellicarrier to back them up lol They may even have prep:

No Caption Provided
No Caption Provided
Avatar image for skaddix
Skaddix

3109

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 0

#32  Edited By Skaddix

Which reminds me why has Magneto not brought that Hellicarrier down yet?

Avatar image for deactivated-5a5a76120d2ba
deactivated-5a5a76120d2ba

5989

Forum Posts

1

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 0

Am I the only one who would really want to see Magneto use Wolverine to stab Tony?