Batman vs Nightwing (READ OP)

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deactivated-5da8e253e9df8

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This is purely a physical fight.

No batons for Nightwing.

No utility belt for Batman.

Random encounter.

No prep.

Both keep their body armor.

WHO WINS IN A PURELY PHYSICAL CONFRONTATION.

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VS.

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Darth_Wayne

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Bruce, but I really want to say Grayson.

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Mr___death

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#3  Edited By Mr___death

Bruce easily

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THORSON

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#4  Edited By THORSON

nightwing.

.namtab etah yllaer i esuaceb

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Darth_Wayne

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THORSON

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zaied

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Batman.

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Static Shock

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This fight already happened on two occasions.

The post-crisis version has Batman dodging Nightwing's every attack and matching him in agility/acrobatics. Batman didn't even have to lay a hand on him, and he appeared to be superior to Nighting, based on that.

The second fight (New 52) was a lot more physical, but Batman dominated Nightwing, regardless.

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deactivated-5d86fd79c2e73

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Nightwing. He's faster and more agile by a lot which means he'll be landing more hits and taking way less. And in the event he is hit he's tough enough to keep going and his own strikes are hard enough to put Bruce down. Let's also look at the fights they already had:

In Bruce Wayne: Fugitive, Batman is running away from a pissed off and emotionally affected Nightwing. Nightwing does in fact land a few hits and manages to slam Bruce to the ground as Bruce tries to escape via grappling gun, keep in mind this is Dick as he is in a state where he isn't thinking straight, which has been shown to affect his fighting skill in the past and the only thing Bruce can do is evade. New 52 Nightwing already beat Batman in an all-out fight (though at one point in the fight Dick could have ended it rather quickly and easily), Bruce even admits that Dick won.

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deactivated-5da8e253e9df8

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@acrokat:

Yeah, I read in Batman Hush when Bruce was thinking to himself about Dick having certain skills that even he himself didn't possess.

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deactivated-5d86fd79c2e73

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@jagernutt: That's the result of Dick having multiple teachers and having a lot of training even before he met Bruce. Which is another factor to think about in this fight.

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Black_Arrow

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Batman

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deactivated-631c3102b31d4

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@static_shock: I've never seen this fight in New 52 but I've read online that Grayson beat him?

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Nathaniel_Adam

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@acrokat said:

Nightwing. He's faster and more agile by a lot which means he'll be landing more hits and taking way less. And in the event he is hit he's tough enough to keep going and his own strikes are hard enough to put Bruce down. Let's also look at the fights they already had:

In Bruce Wayne: Fugitive, Batman is running away from a pissed off and emotionally affected Nightwing. Nightwing does in fact land a few hits and manages to slam Bruce to the ground as Bruce tries to escape via grappling gun, keep in mind this is Dick as he is in a state where he isn't thinking straight, which has been shown to affect his fighting skill in the past and the only thing Bruce can do is evade. New 52 Nightwing already beat Batman in an all-out fight (though at one point in the fight Dick could have ended it rather quickly and easily), Bruce even admits that Dick won.

Totally agree and correct statements as shown on-panel.

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nonokranendonk

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@thorson said:

nightwing.

.namtab etah yllaer i esuaceb

Edgy

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g2_

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Batman wins.

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TheOneWhoKnows

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#17  Edited By TheOneWhoKnows

@acrokat: @nathaniel_adam: Indeed. Nightwing also has instances of stalemating or beating opponents (Deathstroke, KGBeast, an enhanced Joker, etc.) that defeated Batman. Grayson is more agile, faster, and benefits from simultaneously being younger, while having almost as much experience as Wayne (he debuted a mere nine months after Batman came on the scene), and unlike the Dark Knight has been a full fledged, costumed, card carrying, in the field Superhero since he was a child.

This is not to say that Batman couldn't or wouldn't win-far from it. But given the scenario given for this particular thread, Nightwing would definitely achieve his fair share of victories.

Nightwing-when he is allowed to be all that his training, origin, and continuity demands he SHOULD be, and not inexplicably nerfed at times by occasional editorial fiat-is truly formidable.

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deactivated-5da8e253e9df8

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deactivated-5e497e3f11e30

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Batman.

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Black_Arrow

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@acrokat said:

Nightwing. He's faster and more agile by a lot which means he'll be landing more hits and taking way less. And in the event he is hit he's tough enough to keep going and his own strikes are hard enough to put Bruce down. Let's also look at the fights they already had:

In Bruce Wayne: Fugitive, Batman is running away from a pissed off and emotionally affected Nightwing. Nightwing does in fact land a few hits and manages to slam Bruce to the ground as Bruce tries to escape via grappling gun, keep in mind this is Dick as he is in a state where he isn't thinking straight, which has been shown to affect his fighting skill in the past and the only thing Bruce can do is evade. New 52 Nightwing already beat Batman in an all-out fight (though at one point in the fight Dick could have ended it rather quickly and easily), Bruce even admits that Dick won.

Ok your description about Bruce Wayne Fugitive lefts out some big pieces of context and in some places it's wrong. The only few hits that he lands are because Bruce allowed him to and the fight starts after those two hits (It isn't even a fight because Batman didn't wanted to damage Nightwing and he can't escape from the Cave on foot so all that Batman did was lead Nightwing to the place where Jason's costume was at, so that Nightwing could snap out of his rage).

No Caption Provided

While they are on air Nightwing wanted punch Batman but he couldn't, Tim Drake even comments on that. He never bodyslams Batman, he grabs him by the cape and tries to do that but Batman rolls as he hits the ground on the same manner that Nightwing did. Then Nightwing says that Batman isn't even trying to hit him which is truth:

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After this Nightwing tries to get the jump on Batman but He hits him two times and floors him. After that Batman proceeds evade all of Nightwings punches until he gets him to hits Jason's costume. And then he escapes.

So You call a test to see if Nightwing has what it takes to take on Spyral, an all-out fight? Batman during all of the fight clearly says that it was a test to see if Dick was going to give up or not and when he sees that Nightwing was never going to give up, Bruce stops the fight. So it's just a test not a real fight, when Batman sees what he wanted to see from Grayson he stops the fight.

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Batgod123Triumphs

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Batman. Batman will win, but nightwing will hold good against him.

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deactivated-5d86fd79c2e73

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@black_arrow: Because of the art in Fugitive it's kinda hard to tell what's happening but right after Dick slams Bruce he lands a kick and Bruce is in a stumbling position. And he did slam Bruce, in your own scan you can see that Bruce has landed lopsided so yeah he did slam him, while he was trying to escape via grappling gun. And again, this is still an enraged Nightwing, emotionally unstable and unfocused.

In Nightwing #30, even I've had many teachers "test" me without going easy on me, and saying it wasn't a real fight is just wrong. Throughout the fight Bruce is kicking him through armored vehicles, knocking him into computers, he even throws the first hit while Dick was initially the one who wasn't fighting back, compare that to Bruce's other legitimate threats where he doesn't do that much. Bruce specifically said that in order for him to stop he had to win also, Dick repeats this too at the end. Also Tom King himself during an interview said that neither was holding back and that Dick won. During his monologue Bruce says "We're going to fight with no rules", so why would that indicate it's not a real fight or he's going easy?

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deactivated-5d86fd79c2e73

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@theonewhoknows: You just reminded me about that Joker fight where Dick easily dodges his every attack and then restrains him with one arm while in the same comic that same enhanced Joker was destroying Batman.

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blackagar

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#24  Edited By blackagar
No Caption Provided

I say tie just because they can legitimately kill each other at any time. Before anyone says batman knows 10 gazillion martial arts, if you know anything about fighting that doesn't mean shit. Dick is far more agile just as tough and mentally strong. Bruce's advantages are being bigger,stronger and has a bigger fight arsenal. I would legitimately argue dick is a better fighter than batman too but that is a hard argument for another day.

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Black_Arrow

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@acrokat said:

@black_arrow: Because of the art in Fugitive it's kinda hard to tell what's happening but right after Dick slams Bruce he lands a kick and Bruce is in a stumbling position. And he did slam Bruce, in your own scan you can see that Bruce has landed lopsided so yeah he did slam him, while he was trying to escape via grappling gun. And again, this is still an enraged Nightwing, emotionally unstable and unfocused.

In Nightwing #30, even I've had many teachers "test" me without going easy on me, and saying it wasn't a real fight is just wrong. Throughout the fight Bruce is kicking him through armored vehicles, knocking him into computers, he even throws the first hit while Dick was initially the one who wasn't fighting back, compare that to Bruce's other legitimate threats where he doesn't do that much. Bruce specifically said that in order for him to stop he had to win also, Dick repeats this too at the end. Also Tom King himself during an interview said that neither was holding back and that Dick won. During his monologue Bruce says "We're going to fight with no rules", so why would that indicate it's not a real fight or he's going easy?

He landed to the side and he was perfectly fine, He just rolled in a different way than Nightwing did (they both got up at the same time like it's shown when Dick tells him "are you even going to try to hit me?" . No right after the scan I showed you Dick tries to attack Batman, his attack gets blocked and then Batman punches him two times on the face.

Now I read the king interview and yeah It was supposed to be a difficult time for both of them. Batman said enough because Dick proved he wasn't going to give up and that's what he wanted to know, that sparring match doesn't really show you who would win a fight between them, it was cut earlier by Bruce. In Grayson, Dick is really good so it makes sense that he would give Batman a harder time than before.

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deactivated-5c70e557be5ab

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I really want to say Grayson.

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deactivated-5d86fd79c2e73

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@black_arrow: Again the art makes it difficult to tell but you can see Dick managing to kick Bruce. And when Dick slammed him it still proves he's faster, Bruce had a headstart and used his grappling gun to escape, Dick still caught and slammed him either way. Bruce still spent the entire fight running away from an emotionally unstable Nightwing, and Dick still landed hits and caught him.

Tim Seeley and Tom King also both said that Dick won the fight in a few interviews. Yeah Batman wanted to see if Dick would give up but he also states that they were going to fight with nothing held back and that the only way the fight would end was if Dick won. Guess who gets knocked down and calls off the fight, Bruce. But wait, he said the fight would only end if Dick won, so what does this mean? Grayson won.

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Nathaniel_Adam

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@acrokat: @nathaniel_adam: Indeed. Nightwing also has instances of stalemating or beating opponents (Deathstroke, KGBeast, an enhanced Joker, etc.) that defeated Batman. Grayson is more agile, faster, and benefits from simultaneously being younger, while having almost as much experience as Wayne (he debuted a mere nine months after Batman came on the scene), and unlike the Dark Knight has been a full fledged, costumed, card carrying, in the field Superhero since he was a child.

This is not to say that Batman couldn't or wouldn't win-far from it. But given the scenario given for this particular thread, Nightwing would definitely achieve his fair share of victories.

Nightwing-when he is allowed to be all that his training, origin, and continuity demands he SHOULD be, and not inexplicably nerfed at times by occasional editorial fiat-is truly formidable.

@theonewhoknows:Yes, Nice breakdown and I have same thoughts.

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RishardJ

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Batman haters make me laugh! There's no way Grayson wins this unless you hate batman! Or maybe you just hate batman fanboys?

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Black_Arrow

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#30  Edited By Black_Arrow

@acrokat said:

@black_arrow: Again the art makes it difficult to tell but you can see Dick managing to kick Bruce. And when Dick slammed him it still proves he's faster, Bruce had a headstart and used his grappling gun to escape, Dick still caught and slammed him either way. Bruce still spent the entire fight running away from an emotionally unstable Nightwing, and Dick still landed hits and caught him.

Tim Seeley and Tom King also both said that Dick won the fight in a few interviews. Yeah Batman wanted to see if Dick would give up but he also states that they were going to fight with nothing held back and that the only way the fight would end was if Dick won. Guess who gets knocked down and calls off the fight, Bruce. But wait, he said the fight would only end if Dick won, so what does this mean? Grayson won.

Ok he didn't kick him because Tim clearly says "He can't land a punch". It only proves that Dick is faster than the Grapping hook and again Dick didn't slammed Batman, Batman landed perfectly fine. Batman wasn't going to run away, you can't escape the cave on foot, He directed Dick to where Jason's costume was to snap him out of his rage. He didn't wanted to hurt Dick, He just wanted to snap him out of his rage. Dick didn't landed a single hit once the fight started, Batman either evaded or blocked all of his hits.

Yeah Dick won, He passed the test, the objective of the test was to see if he would give up and he didn't. He only states that the only rule is that he is that he has to win, so what does win mean on this case? Not giving up. Batman wasn't knocked down, He was perfectly conscious, Dick's punch only threw him to the ground if those were the conditions to win, then Bruce won 30 seconds into the fight when he did this:

No Caption Provided

No Dick won when Batman deemed that he won. When he proved to him that he wasn't going to give up.

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TheOneWhoKnows

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#31  Edited By TheOneWhoKnows

@black_arrow: You are so invested in Nightwing being "inferior" to Batman that you (A) ignore the panels that @acrokat scanned showing the final moments displayinging Grayson winning the fight and scan panels where Grayson is not truly fighting back, asking Wayne what was going on, and (B) try to over rule the writer himself's take on the battle to claim it was just a "sparring session"?

Seriously?

It's one thing to think that, for instance, that Batman would take a majority, or something. But to do this?

I think doing that kind of undermines your credibility.

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Nathaniel_Adam

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#32  Edited By Nathaniel_Adam

@rishardj said:

Batman haters make me laugh! There's no way Grayson wins this unless you hate batman! Or maybe you just hate batman fanboys?

I hope you don't mean me nor the others for voting for Dick. If you read through the comments, there are only one-word or two-words answers, when they say Batman win. At least a few have provided explanation for Dick winning, without showing any personal favoritism towards Grayson nor hate towards Batman.

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deactivated-5d86fd79c2e73

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@black_arrow: (ugh you have no idea how many times I keep retyping my post because my phone deletes everything I type when I switch tabs...)

T. Drake's statement isn't reliable. He is a literal Batman fanboy and doesn't have the view of the fight we do. Dick lands two or three hits after the fight starts and manages to slam Bruce to the ground despite Bruce trying to escape via grappling gun (whether Bruce rolls out of it is irrelevant as he was still caught and slammed to the ground) and at one point Bruce literally turns around and runs off. After that he barely and pitifully blocks a kick from Dick and leads Dick into the case. Dick also dodges a few hits from Batman himself.

Again T. King and Seeley both said that Dick beat Batman in the fight. Try to spin it however Bruce's statements reflect that he is the test and that Dick had to beat him to end the fight. Bruce admits that Dick won as well.

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Static Shock

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@static_shock: I've never seen this fight in New 52 but I've read online that Grayson beat him?

I read the book. Grayson didn't win.

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deactivated-5da8e253e9df8

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So far the arguments point to Grayson.

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Black_Arrow

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@black_arrow: You are so invested in Nightwing being "inferior" to Batman that you (A) ignore the panels that @acrokat scanned showing the final moments displayinging Grayson winning the fight and scan panels where Grayson is not truly fighting back, asking Wayne what was going on, and (B) try to over rule the writer himself's take on the battle to claim it was just a "sparring session"?

Seriously?

It's one thing to think that, for instance, that Batman would take a majority, or something. But to do this?

I think doing that kind of undermines your credibility.

Well the writer himself said that it was an sparring scene after I heard the interview, I knew that it was a difficult fight for both of them, liked I said in some previous comments on this thread. Now this is the only interview (http://www.comicgeekspeak.com/episodes/comic_geek_speak-1812.php, around 41:20 they talked about the sparring session), I found on the topic maybe there are others, I would like to hear them on my own to see what he is saying (if you can pass me a link on that). Also I am not ignoring the final moments of the fight, I made comparation between the final moments of the fight where Batman gets knocked on his *ss and the first moments of the fight where Batman knocked Nightwing on his *ss, as a way to show what they considered winning on the sparring session (The fight already started when Bruce kicked Dick). Clearly the point of the whole thing was to shown Batman that Nightwing wouldn't give up (Batman even says this on the comic) and he won because he didn't give up (I mean Batman even said that Dick won on the issue, so it's clear that he won). I am not doing this because I am invested on Nightwing being infeorior to Batman, If I wanted to do that, I would say that the fight isn't consistent with the feats that both of them have and that Batman has better feats thus he should have won, dismissing the whole thing altogether. No I just disagree with the interpretation of the events that the user is proposing that's why I am debating.

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Vertigo-

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bats, but I'm personally a bigger greyson fan

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deactivated-5d86fd79c2e73

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@black_arrow: So you're just arguing against my interpretation? You know that Grayson did win and that they were not holding back? So what was the point of all that?

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TheOneWhoKnows

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@acrokat: @black_arrow: I thought I would have found the link to King's interview by now, blast it, but I haven't. I'm going to keep looking. In the meantime, I have to say-you still seem to be trying as hard as you can to give Grayson as little credit as possible, parsing words and splitting hairs. The fact is, Grayson won a, quote, "all out fight", not a mere "training session". Wayne was going all out with "no rules" involved. Grayson got the last blow in which dropped Batman on his a$$, after which Wayne said "That's enough" and stopped while Nightwing wanted to keep going.

Look, this is a situation where Batman lost. It's not the end of the world, and it doesn't mean that the Dark Knight couldn't beat Grayson in other subsequent battles.

All it means is that the now mid twenties, adult Nightwing, at the peak of his youth, abilities, and experience can more than hang with Batman-JUST AS HIS CONTINUITY AND FEATS DEMANDS HE SHOULD BE ABLE TO DO.

Nightwing had an occasion to beat Batman. No one-not even Wayne-can have a perfect win/loss record.

People should let it go.

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ILostTheKey

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Batman

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senglord

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#41  Edited By senglord

Batman has significantly better body armor. He should win this 8/10 due to the massive durability edge and striking power edge.

@acrokat: It is not impossible for Grayson to win a serious sparring match with Bruce and still lose an actual fight.

There was no technique from Bruce in the fight, yet he has shown far more active use of maneuvering and nerve strikes.

And Bruce showed noticeable advantages in raw striking power. Sick did seem to have an edge in speed and stamina.

The Batman suit has a bulletproof cowl and cape, he can absorb a lot more damage than Grayson will be able to dish out.

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RishardJ

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I am new to comics so I cant really use references from previous issues. I really only like Batman/Superman and some justice league. I can tell you that I am 35 years old and have been in jiu-jitsu most of my life and for the past few years I have been taking Krav Maga classes. There is no way the protege beats the master (in their primes)! Batman wins!

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Ashutosh05

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For the record, nightwing #30 wasn't a fair fight, Batman was manipulating Dick to do his bidding, a fair fight between this two would result in Bruce overwhelming Dick.

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deactivated-5aeee927346fb

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Batman, this is the most basic comicbook knowledge.

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playerx-tr

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Batman wins

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lilcabbage

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outcome is obvious, Batman keeps his body armor

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Gracetrack

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Batman.

Easily.

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CaptainCoolade

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bruce, no need for bump

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Bayman007

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Batman gets my vote.