Batman vs Ironman

@brucerogers:

Tony with just a week of prep could build a machine that broke the Phoenix into separate pieces

IIRC that’s not what it was supposed to do.

He also essentially cloned Thor from a single strand of hair

Batman built Brother EYE, its power mimicry and technopathy is well superior

and has build armours that can go toe to toe with skyfathers. Not just heralds.

Are you talking about Thorbuster? Wasn’t that combined with Asgardian Magic or some shit? Either way, EYE mimicked The Wizard Shazam’s(nigh universal being) lightning bolt. How powerful is the skyfather here?

but Stark is undeniably the better engineer and I don't think Bruce has anything in his arsenal that can trump Stark's own.

I still haven’t seen anything putting Tony above EYE’s power mimicry tech. EYE trumps, he takes control of Tony’s tech using technopathy and then its GG. EYE managed to take over most of the galaxy sized Apokolips which is pretty much abstract tier tech.

@causeimbatman: okay, fair enough if Batman can use EYE from PC. I guess he can’t use current continuity EYE though. As for hacking feats to be above Brainiac, it’s about quality not quantity. Hacking planets worth of junk tier tech could be worse than hacking something really impressive. TBH though I’m not really that aware of Tony’s best hacking feats anyways, you should ask noone1996 for those. TBH, I think Ra’s and Lord hacking Bruce’s tech makes it seem like Brainiac not being able to hack it is an outlier though.

@brucerogers: I think you’re forgetting he had a ton of help from Pym and T’Challa, not to mention that feat is completely unusable since he didn’t actually hurt the Phoenix but just split it up momentarily. We don’t know what that means so it’s not quantifiable. I also think you are way overselling Tony vs Odinforce Thor, since Thor was clearly holding back. He just wanted to teach Tony a lesson, not turn him into paste. I do think Tony wins though.

@blackspidey2099: Well I’m not sure how advance the planets tech was so I’ll check. But Batman has an anti hacking program that resisted Genie, a computer program that hacked into a flarking GL ring and Cyborg(who is made up of Motherbox tech and other alien species’ tech). Thing is, Ra’s couldn’t hack into the batcomputer directly. He had Talia go to the batcave and take access of the batcomputer from there. I would agree it’s an outlier feat but only if Lord and Ra’s have failed to hack tech Brainiac could.

@causeimbatman: Sure, but we don’t know if Batman’s anti-hacking program is in Brother Eye (or do we? Any scans?) especially since Batman didn’t program EYE according to the wiki at least (even in PC). Like is it something that he has in all his tech? As for the other stuff, I’ll just concede to you, I don’t know anything about how good those hacking feats are and I don’t know much about Tony’s hacking level either, and I don’t care too much about this battle lol. Like I said, ask @noone1996 if you want feats for Tony’s hacking.

@blackspidey2099: It isn’t, the program is from Rebirth. Meh, wikis are untrustworthy. Not sure where they got that from. Batman has shown access to EYE before, he could just download the program in a few seconds. He’s done the same before. Also saying Tony will insta hack EYE is implying he knows about it which he doesn’t - OP didn’t give full Knowledge, only basic.. Meanwhile, Batman knows Tony is tech focused and will thus instantly use EYE.

@blackspidey2099: Thanks for tagging me. I'll post some feats when I get on my computer. One thing I wanted to point out though is the fact that Stark was the one doing all of the work during Avengers vs X-Men. He didn't have a ton of help from anyone. He was heading both the research and engineering part of the plan. Pym was practically his lab assistant. Plus at the very least Tony did more to the Phoenix than Thor could. Also, King Thor was holding back when he smacked Captain America away and accidentally dented the shield so...

No problem, I know you're basically the main Iron Man expert on this site at least AFAIK. Do you think Stark can hack Bruce's tech/Brother Eye?

As for AvX, I'll take your word for it then, since I don't really remember it very well. I just remembered Stark, T'Challa, Pym, and McCoy all working together. Though I still don't think what Tony did to the Phoenix is very quantifiable, since he wasn't attacking it but just momentarily disrupting the Phoenix, and it happened to be just as the Phoenix was going into Hope. So the disruption ended up getting the Phoenix into 5 hosts instead. It's never implied in the story that it was even slightly damaged though.

And I thought the other dude was talking about Odinforce Thor vs Extremis Iron Man, not King Thor vs Thorbuster. The latter is much more impressive, of course. But saying Extremis Iron Man can hold his own with skyfathers because of the battle with Odinforce Thor is just as bad as someone saying Daredevil can hold his own with Hulk because they battled once and Daredevil didn't die.

@blackspidey2099: I'm going to level with you here and say that I don't know a thing about Brother's Eye. I'm familiar with a lot of other tech feats he has though and I fail to see why he wouldn't be hacked. Especially when Lex did it casually for the Hellbat.

Tony was working on and solving universal expansion and replicating accelerator cannons which mimicked the Big Bang but on a smaller scale. These were all his ideas and he made these suggestions to all of them and they agreed. McCoy was in space with Thor and the other Avengers to collect energy/study the Phoenix. T'Challa was fighting against X-Men on the front lines. I mean you are correct that it's unquantifiable (even though Thor could only clip its wing with Mjolnir while it was weakened) but the Phoenix was not really near the moon when Tony flew up to it so I don't think it was just about to go inside of Hope. Plus when he blasted the Phoenix the artwork showed the bird cracking and splitting like what glass would look like if you break it.

Yeah I think they were referring to the Thor-Buster, but even then it was just that powerful due to the magical gem. We are in complete agreement about the Odin force Thor instance.

@noone1996: Yeah, that's true, I remember Lex trivially breaking the firewalls on the Hellbat to upgrade it before he fought Darkseid. But I guess I'll leave that debate to @causeimbatman lol.

As for the Phoenix instance, you might be right, it's been a while since I read the series.

Isn't Tony still a technopath? If so couldn't he just take over or dismantle any tech Bruce uses on him? Technopathy isn't like hacking and there are very few technopaths in DC so does he really somehow "shield" his tech from that? I mean ligitemently, do we KNOW? Because assumptions are irrelevant.

read the conditions, both are given 1 year prepare time

@vj21oq:

I still stand by my comment.

@thebeardofzues: there is not h2h fight in the given conditions.

@vj21oq: which is why Tony wins.

Iron man still stomps.

With or without prep, without PIS/WIS/CIS I'm sorry but Iron Man stomps, hes faster, stronger and smarter and the only one thats even slightly debatable is "smarter".

Batman still stomps.

Still haven’t seen anything putting Tony beyond Brother EYE. Stark gets his tech taken over by EYE then its GG.

@sophisticated_ignorance:

but Iron Man stomps, hes faster, stronger

Meh. Can be countered by either of Bats’ high tier armors. One gave Superman a decent fight, one gave Bizarro a decent fight and then theres Hell-Bat. And with Brother EYE’s technopathy that is capable of rebuilding itself and making an anti matter cannon out of some space junk, the armors should be easily upgraded.

Tony already has countermeasures for Ultron's hacking and technopathy. And he already hacked Kree tech without prep. Not to mention that Tony with Extremis is a technopath himself, with mind billion times more powerful than Bruce's. His tech and Brother Eye can't do anything to Tony's own technology. Bruce has to beat him with physical force or rely on versatility. Shutting him down won't work.

@krleavenger:

Tony already has countermeasures for Ultron's hacking and technopathy.

Based on what is Ultron a superior technopath to EYE? Obviously you read my posts so I guess you know EYE’s feats

. And he already hacked Kree tech without prep

So what?

Not to mention that Tony with Extremis is a technopath himself, with mind billion times more powerful than Bruce's.

Based on what is he a better technopath than EYE?

Also why didn’t you tag me?

I’m gonna say Iron Man takes this. It will be good fight, but I’m just not sure that Bats could win against him despite this. I know feats and all, and everything they’ve created will come into play sooner or later. If need be I’ll addres them if anyone tags me. I think IM is overall better though. However imo just their respective portrayals and lore gives IM the win for me.

He’s been creating and building and using tech to his advantage since damn near his first few classic issues. Which means to say that in terms of battles like this Iron man has just been doing this for a longer time and under multiple stories and writers. Tbh most of Batman’s big feats and pieces of tech like this that would enable him to compete start with Grant Morrison, and that wasn’t til the turn of the 21st century. Tony has almost 40-50 years on that and has only improved as wel. I think IM takes this.

I don’t really care if Tony has more feats if he doesn’t have anything better than EYE. Brother EYE mimicked The Wizard(a flarking nigh universal being)’s lighting bolt, rebuilt itself and make an anti matter cannon out of space junk and has nigh galaxy lvl technopathy. Has Tony ever resisted Technopathy as good as EYE’s? I know he has his Ultron feats but EYE should be better. It took over most of the galaxy sized Apokolips, and you can’t give me the “quality>>>>quantity” argument either, since Apok is pretty much abstract lvl tech.

@causeimbatman: I didn't tag you? I guess I rushed into posting it.

i don't think ironman will beat batman in his specialized department

He already does. Batman prep is not as good as people say it is.

@causeimbatman:

don’t really care if Tony has more feats if he doesn’t have anything better than EYE.

But aren't you the one who says consistent feats over everything else? So do you believe differently now? Or are you saying that because Bat's built Brother Eye he automatically wins?

Brother EYE mimicked The Wizard(a flarking nigh universal being)’s lighting bolt, rebuilt itself and make an anti matter cannon out of space junk and has nigh galaxy lvl technopathy.

Now you saying that Bruce wins because of this, but was any this done while Bruce actually had control over Brother EYE? Is Brother EYE something Bruce would do in-character? IIRC he made it because he didn't trust his superpowered allies in the league post-Identity Crisis and used it mainly to gather information and weaknesses. Has he ever actually used Brother EYE in its capacity or is all this after BE entered its "Ultron Phase" where it became Batman's enemy not an ally? Not dissimilar from Hank Pym and Ultron

Has Tony ever resisted Technopathy as good as EYE’s? I know he has his Ultron feats but EYE should be better. It took over most of the galaxy sized Apokolips, and you can’t give me the “quality>>>>quantity” argument either, since Apok is pretty much abstract lvl tech.

Im a bit confused by you last sentence and the whole quality and quantity thing. What are you trying to say? Also like I said I don't think Bruce had Brother Eye as a resource when it did everything you're saying it did. Also Ultron's technopathy and hacking is good enough to control and dominate the Phalanx hive mind, an entire race of beings that live off dominating and hacking technology and organic beings. And Tony still has the means to counter Ultron.

Bats

bruce has one chance to beat tony in the hacking department and that is if tony is more humored by bruce trying to hack than insulted if tony finds it funny and looks at him as no threat but if he sees him as an actual challenge tony will shut him out

Tony has the means to counter Ultron? Wasn't it Ultron that invaded Stark's armor and literally made a woman out of him?

I thought that Stark felt that Ultron was smarter than him.

Your first scan is from Mighty Avengers Vol. 1 in 2005, the first time Ultron had been seen since Avengers Vol. 3 in the 1998. Before he developed his technopathy in its fullest extent.

This is the event which caused Tony to build safeguards to counter Ultron in your second scan which is from Avengers Vol. 4 in the Heroic age in 2010 way after your first scan. This was also post Bleeding Edge armor Tony who was a full blown techno path himself. You see later in the story that Ultron cannot hack Tony and Tony even hacks Kree tech to create shields that Ultron couldn’t get pat with a regular blast.

@just_sayin: see above forgot to tag you.

I thought the last time that Ultron fought the Avengers he captured them all with ease, Iron-man included, and made them be his dinner guests.

Do you have a scan where Ultron can't hack Stark's armor?

Anyway, I think Iron-Man can take Batman, even if prep is involved.

@just_sayin: From Secret Empire? That wasn’t the real Tony if I recall, that was his duplicate A.I, the same one I believe that inhabits Riri Williams Ironheart armor. Also he was using a classic suit that wasn’t anywhere near as powerful or enhanced as his other suits. I can’t give you a scan atm because I am on mobile. But try Avengers Vol. 4 #6 That is the first instance that comes to mind.

Oh alright then. Sounds good either way.

@causeimbatman: What is Brother Eye? What are its capabilities? Iron Man has hacked technology of alien civilizations that are extremely advanced and has figured out ways to make himself unhackable to Ultron and 451 (who was Ultron level in technopathy). I've never really been all that impressed with Batman's tech, so I don't see how he might be more advanced than a civilization like the Kree or Skrull empire.

Stark all day

@darthjhawk: It's also been confirmed that the Stark A.I. is not as smart as the original Tony:

Confirmed by narration through the writer.

Also, it's funny that A.I. Tony, Ultron, and Secret Empire is being brought up here when Ultron tech couldn't even take control of his classic suit which, as you already pointed out, isn't as powerful or enhanced as his other suits:

@noone1996: There we go, I knew there was an instance of Tony's resistance in Secret Empire too. Thanks for that.

Batman’s best prep feat, Brother EYE is a super spy satellite Batman made when some shitty heroes erased his memory. It’s impressive for a few reasons:

• Incredibly high lvl power mimicry: EYE mimicked The Wizard Shazam(a nigh universal being)’s lightning bolt. Extremely impressive, considering The Wizard’s tier
• Top Tier Technopathy: EYE took over most of the galaxy sized Apokolips. Apokolips is pretty much abstract tier tech so very impressive. So Nigh galaxy lvl technopathy capable of taking over abstract tier tech.
• Incredible Spying Capabilities: This thing can hack into the watchtower and batcomputer casually, see through buildings, moniter metahumans across the globe, see to the sun, analyze people down into the molecular lvl, etc
• Intellect: EYE is smart enough to rebuild itself and make an anti matter cannon out of space junk

Meh, Batman should be able to resist Tony’s hacking. Cyborg couldn’t access the batcomputer and he’s made up of motherbox and other alien tech. He has an anti hacking program that stopped Genie, a computer program that hacked into a flarking GL ring And Cyborg.

Unhackable doesn’t mean much to Technopathy tho, does it? Has Tony ever resisted a technopath as powerful as EYE?

@causeimbatman: Interesting. I'm glad I can have a rational and informative discussion with a Batman fan. Some of these fanboys don't even understand what they are reading and based on what I've heard, Brother Eye was basically just a conscious spy satellite. Nobody ever tells me the full story or why it's impressive. That's cool that it can do that much. Iron Man's hacking abilities and resistance really doesn't extend that far or on such an enormous scale, but through power scaling of other technopaths like Ultron or 451, I could argue that he, at the very least, wouldn't be hacked since he's found ways to make himself unhackable to them. Now could he hack Brother Eye? Probably not unless he had the right tech.

To show Ultron's level of technopathy and hacking ability, he managed to take control of an entire civilization of Phalanx aliens, who are essentially an advanced techno organic civilization which managed to hack/take control over the entire Kree empire (which has colonies and planets that extend across the galaxy, within hours. The Kree even came up with a solution to defeating the Phalanx and they enlisted the help of a technopath which used her powers to make 15,000 Kree Sentries immune to technopathy control. The Phalanx could not stop them, but then Ultron managed to take them over. Ultron's technopathy/control of Iron Man's technology always seems to be inconsistent, but it seems that he can make his armor have sealed systems which disallows any outside control by disconnecting from all servers and communication systems. By doing this, Ultron and 451 have failed to compromise his suit. Oh and 451 is a Rigellian recorder capable of taking over tech from a civilization called the Voldi which were more advanced and older than the Kree and Shi'ar civilizations. They basically influenced them into becoming successful like the Greeks did the Romans. Also, 451 was capable of taking control of a Godkiller armor that was advanced and powerful enough to not only casually destroy planets, but to absolutely slaughter Celestials. It was created in a war between the Celestials and Aspirants for control of the universe. It was said that, before the Godkiller armor, there were as many Celestials as there were stars.

I've also never really been all that impressed with Apokolips tech. What makes that so special?

when did ironman beat batman?

When it come to prep? Tony wins. He doesn't need as much outside help as Bruce.

@tanakaclinkenbeard: when it comes to prepare batman wins. because he is a better strategist. i think batman can utilize prepare time better than ironman because the whole world knows that tony stark is ironman, on the other hand only a handful of people know batman's secret identity, ironman will need some time to find out who batman is in order to prepare properly, batman doesn't has this disadvantage which gives him more time to prepare, in that time he can find a way to hack tony's tech.batman also thinks out of box, for instance when ironman fought hulk , he used hulkbuster to fight him(but lost), in crossover comics batman used gas to transform hulk to banner(which took less than 5 mins) , ironman tries to match power with power(even after knowing hulk better than batman) where as batman seeks innovative and logical ways to defeat his foes. if ironman ever made a contingency plan for wonder woman, he would have made a very powerful suit to beat her(which costs millions) where as batman used psychological weakness of wonder woman to beat her by herself. so with prepare time, i think batman has edge.

OK you make a point. Tony is certainly not the best strategic thinker. I remember an issue of Avengers when he as the leader needed to get the team to Korvac's layer quickly and instead of having Thor whip up a dimensional gateway with his hammer or having the flying team members carry the non-fliers, he instead had the team take public transit. Not exactly a strategic genius move.

Stark's genius is pretty much confined to his suits. But I still think his suit takes Batman.

@noone1996:

I'm glad I can have a rational and informative discussion with a Batman fan.

Likewise :D

The Phalanx could not stop them, but then Ultron managed to take them over. Ultron's technopathy/control of Iron Man's technology always seems to be inconsistent, but it seems that he can make his armor have sealed systems which disallows any outside control by disconnecting from all servers and communication systems.

(I’m going to ignore the 451 and Ultron thing , since this is what stopped it either way).

That is a clever tactic but that is assuming Tony comes in knowing about EYE so he’ll prep to do that tactic. Problem is, Batman and IM only have basic knowledge so Tony won’t know about EYE unless he has full knowledge. Is it in character for IM to come in with that tactic just because his enemy is tech heavy and is a hacker? If not, EYE should take over his tech rather easily.

I've also never really been all that impressed with Apokolips tech. What makes that so special?

Addressed. There is a reason Apok is one of the most advanced tech havens in DC, second only to New Genesis.

No.

Obviously you don't read comics. Bats prep is just as good as the people say. His plans work most of the time unlike all the Ironman buster armors.

Batman wins under these conditions.

I can barely read this but what I can read is stupid. First off your logic to why Batman is a better strategist is faulty, because you used a NONCANON crossover comic where Batman, this is PIS by the way, beats the Hulk. Guess what pal? Tony doesn't always try to match people in power. However, the enemies he has to face don't have stuff weakness like Superman or the rest. Plus, you're underselling the hulkbuster and how Tony builts his suits. Because the hulkbuster has beaten the hulk once. Tony doesnt just built the suit to match in power but to counter their strength and he does it without help. PS: How will knowing Ironman is Tony help Bruce in anyway when it hasn't even help other?