Batman runs the Super Soldier Gauntlet.

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deactivated-5b2121a0a9a00

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Batman

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Rules :

  • Batman is composite (Post Crisis/New 52/Rebirth)
  • DC characters are also composite (PC/N52/Rebirth)
  • 616 Versions
  • Basic Knowledge
  • Is fully healed between rounds
  • Stats are Equalized. To make it more clear, Batman stats are the same as his opponent in each round.

The Combatants :

1.

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2.

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3.

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4.

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Bonus round :

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TheKinfing

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Could very well clear.

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morpheus_

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#4 morpheus_  Moderator

No reason for him not to clear, he outskills everyone here by a good margin.

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tj849

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deactivated-5ace9ec1d0243

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Just wait for itheman to show up.

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Clears. More skilled than anyone here by a decent bit, plus those gadgets

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dondave

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No reason for him not to clear, he outskills everyone here by a good margin.

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jashro44

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While batman is more skilled I still think he would be hard pressed to deal with T'challa's tech.

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@jashro44: Why would T’Challa’s tech be hard to deal with? Energy daggers can be dealt with. Batman has an energy reflection system that deflects/reflects energy and chaff Grenades that deflected Dr. Light’s energy blasts.

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jashro44

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@jashro44: Why would T’Challa’s tech be hard to deal with? Energy daggers can be dealt with. Batman has an energy reflection system that deflects/reflects energy and chaff Grenades that deflected Dr. Light’s energy blasts.

Out of curiosity how many times has batman used the gear you just referenced? Regardless he doesn't really need energy daggers. His vibranium claws recently cut Namor and he has kninetic blasts which can be used omni-directionally. Bruce doesn't really have a defense against the latter.

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@jashro44: He used them once each. But AFAIK there weren’t any other instances where he could have easily used but didn’t. Batman’s suit is very piercing resistant. At least in Post Crisis, it resisted an OMAC(OMACs are high-low herald tier bots) blade. How powerful is the kinetic blast? Batsuit’s energy/explosive durability is enough to be unfazed after building explosions.

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Worldofthunder

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With stats equalized he should clear.

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IndomitableRegal

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#14  Edited By IndomitableRegal

Composite and with equalized stats, be should clear.

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TheWatcherKing

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#15  Edited By TheWatcherKing

@jashro44 said:

While batman is more skilled I still think he would be hard pressed to deal with T'challa's tech.

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jashro44

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@causeimbatman:

He used them once each. But AFAIK there weren’t any other instances where he could have easily used but didn’t.

I mean Bruce has been tagged with energy attacks before has he not? Admittedly I'd have to look through some issues to think of a specific instance.

Batman’s suit is very piercing resistant. At least in Post Crisis, it resisted an OMAC(OMACs are high-low herald tier bots) blade.

OMAC's have never been that strong from what I've read. During superman 224 Lex managed to defeat one by causing an avalanche and one shotted several with his war suit:

I'm not familiar with the instance your referencing but considering batman's bat suit has been stabbed through by william cobbs for example I doubt that is a consistent feat.

How powerful is the kinetic blast? Batsuit’s energy/explosive durability is enough to be unfazed after building explosions.

The suit absorbs energy and can redirect that energy in the form of a kinetic blast. T'challa recently took a hit from Namor and threatened to use the force of his punch to blow up his ship and kill some atlanteans inside. He also has feats of rag dolling multiple people at once, and blasting some giant dude several hundred ft through a wall:

Read the above scans in reverse order.

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@jashro44: I dunno. Batman has dodged energy blasts and the like a couple times or just tanked them with his cape.

OMACs are way more consistently high tiers. They no sold Stewart’s blast, took blows from Superman with zero damage, MMH couldn’t make one move with his strength, a group defeated Supergirl, Stewart and some others,etc.

The OMAC instance is Post-Crisis, Cobb is N52. Doesn’t really work.

I think Bruce can tank the kinetic blast. Considering he was unfazed after building explosions.

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With stats equalized he stops at Deathstroke

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jashro44

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@causeimbatman:

I dunno. Batman has dodged energy blasts and the like a couple times or just tanked them with his cape.

Well how do these energy reflection devices work exactly?

OMACs are way more consistently high tiers. They no sold Stewart’s blast, took blows from Superman with zero damage, MMH couldn’t make one move with his strength, a group defeated Supergirl, Stewart and some others,etc.

They seem really inconsistent. I also remember BIzzaro no selling one that was beating him up. No way is batman capable of tanking hits from herald level characters. Otherwise villains in his own rogues gallery wouldn't be able to even hurt him.

The OMAC instance is Post-Crisis, Cobb is N52. Doesn’t really work.

OP says post crisis and new 52. So this isn't just post crisis batman.

I think Bruce can tank the kinetic blast. Considering he was unfazed after building explosions.

I am aware batman has tanked blasts which destroyed building however T'challa's kinetic energy blasts aren't really the same thing as an explosion. There pure kinetic energy which would make them more similar to a punch. Regardless being able to withstand them isn't enough because T'challa has shown he can use them multiple times.

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@jashro44:

Well how do these energy reflection devices work exactly?

The energy reflection system threw Mr. Toxin(a being made of mostly energy) and his energy beams away. Chaff Grenades..well here’s the scan from Superman/Batman #43:

Scans in reverse order.

They seem really inconsistent. I also remember BIzzaro no selling one that was beating him up.

Not really. Aside from the showings I listed, they no sold blasts from Guy Gardner and Booster Gold, reacted to Jay Garrick, 3 shotted MMH with their energy blasts, etc.

No way is batman capable of tanking hits from herald level characters. Otherwise villains in his own rogues gallery wouldn't be able to even hurt him.

Unless there are any anti feats to go against The Batsuit’s piercing resistance, I don’t see why he can’t take piercing of that caliber.

OP says post crisis and new 52. So this isn't just post crisis batman.

No, but how can you use an anti feat from N52 to discredit a feat from Post Crisis?

There pure kinetic energy which would make them more similar to a punch. Regardless being able to withstand them isn't enough because T'challa has shown he can use them multiple times.

Well Bat Boi has took a beating from Ultimate Clayface(IIRC Clayface when he absorbed all other clayfaces). He should withstand it. Also how fast is it? Does BP spam it?

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jashro44

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@causeimbatman:

The energy reflection system threw Mr. Toxin(a being made of mostly energy) and his energy beams away. Chaff Grenades..well here’s the scan from Superman/Batman #43:

Scans in reverse order.

Well he would have to throw them at the energy daggers to be effective. Can you give me an issue number for the reflection system?

Not really. Aside from the showings I listed, they no sold blasts from Guy Gardner and Booster Gold, reacted to Jay Garrick, 3 shotted MMH with their energy blasts, etc.

Yet you believe batman being able to withstand an attack from them is proper writing?

Unless there are any anti feats to go against The Batsuit’s piercing resistance, I don’t see why he can’t take piercing of that caliber.

What about the time Sensei stabbed batman with a stick?

Or that time during batman chalice where Bruce got stabbed by Ra's with a broken sword?

No, but how can you use an anti feat from N52 to discredit a feat from Post Crisis?

When using a composite version I don't see why not.

Well Bat Boi has took a beating from Ultimate Clayface(IIRC Clayface when he absorbed all other clayfaces). He should withstand it. Also how fast is it? Does BP spam it?

Taking a beating from class 100's is pretty standard. Bruce has also been hurt by bane, branca, deathstroke, deadshot using either blanks or a coin, etc. It doesn't have a confirmed speed, and yes black panther has used it quite frequently.

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laflux

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4.

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APEX_pretador

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Stops at black panther

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Thor-Parker

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Isn't Captain America a bit more skilled than Bruce anyway ?? I mean, I know they are not canon, but the two times they have interacted with each other, Batman has noted how Steve is more skilled, and ultimately that's something both companies had to agree to put on paper.

Not presenting this as an actual argument, I'm just genuinely curious because I think Steve is more skilled, but I'm not that knowledgeable on Bruce.

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With stats equalized he stops at Black Panther. The tech advantage is huge.

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@thor_parker82: Nah, I’m pretty sure he is decently more skilled than Cap.

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Jmarshmallow

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Clears with ease. Batman is more skilled than anyone here, and stats was the biggest thing that could be considered an advantage over some of these opponents.

Bringing in his gadgets, he takes the win.

With stats equalized he stops at Black Panther. The tech advantage is huge.

Not at all mate. BP doesn't use his tech consistently enough in combat, not to mention he doesn't have nearly as much as Bruce.

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TheKinfing

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@thor_parker82: Steve isn't more skilled than Bruce...at all, if anything Bruce outskills him by a noticeable margin, from actual feats, to combat showings, in-universe standing, and statements.

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jashro44

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Clears with ease. Batman is more skilled than anyone here, and stats was the biggest thing that could be considered an advantage over some of these opponents.

Bringing in his gadgets, he takes the win.

@ithemanwithoutfeari said:

With stats equalized he stops at Black Panther. The tech advantage is huge.

Not at all mate. BP doesn't use his tech consistently enough in combat, not to mention he doesn't have nearly as much as Bruce.

Literally all he has done under Ta-Nihisi Coates is use his kinetic blast. I wish he would use his tech less.

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HeroUp2112

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Why call this a Super Soldiers gauntlet when none of the soldiers are "super"?

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KrleAvenger

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#31  Edited By KrleAvenger

@thor_parker82: Nah, Bruce is better martial artist out of the two (although the difference is not as nearly as large as people make it out to be). Just because Bruce admitted that Rogers can beat him does not make him a better fighter. Rogers is a better tactician tho, which helped him fight more skilled fighters than he is. Not sure how he will handle Batman without superior stats tho. Ignoring my bias, I don't see Rogers taking a majority (not even minor) over Bruce under this scenario. Although I don't see Bruce clearing.

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conner_wolf

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@krleavenger: I would honestly say they're on par with one another, when it comes down to it Cap and Batman are both amongst the best in their respective universes and it'd be unfair to Cap to just claim because we don't have anybody throwing out specific numbers or specific skill levels out there that he's not a master. It's pretty clear he contends with people like Iron Fist, Black Panther, Shang Chi, etc...

And why do you still think Batman takes a majority? Solely because of skill? Even if in pure skill he's superior, physicals still play a lot into skill, every strike Cap throws will be that much harder, every strike Batman throws will be that much less effective, every minute Batman will be that much more tired than Cap whereas Cap can go pretty much indefinitely, any wounds Batman inflicts will heal rather quickly whereas any injuries Batman receives won't heal for some time longer. Yeah Batman may be able to deal with big characters like Bane who rely on their Venom-usually by targetting their weak spots, but Cap has no weak spots to target, and when it comes to tactics Cap can outthink him by a landslide so a bit more skilled really isn't gonna mean he takes a majority.

Then when it comes to gadgets, he doesn't have much that'll really phase Cap, honestly, cause anything he has, Cap has dealt with before, everything from cryogenic weaponry to fire to electricity, he's dealt with it all, and his suit even helps protect against the last two.

Just to quote Felix from Red vs Blue because it popped into my head.

"At the end of the day, if I'm stronger than you and if I'm faster than you, then I can kill you! And that's better than anything money can buy!"

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anthp2000

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#33  Edited By anthp2000  Moderator

Clears with stats equalised.

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@jashro44:

Well he would have to throw them at the energy daggers to be effective.

Yeah, but then they would be dealt with

Can you give me an issue number for the reflection system?

Its Detective Comics Vol. 2 #11:

Yet you believe batman being able to withstand an attack from them is proper writing?

As long as there aren’t any anti feats.

What about the time Sensei stabbed batman with a stick?

Or that time during batman chalice where Bruce got stabbed by Ra's with a broken sword?

The Chalice instance is Pre-2000s. Important because Batman’s 2000s Era suits were more durable. And there is proof there’s a difference between the suits, 1990s suits were made out of a triple weave of kevlar, 2000s ones were made out of Nomex and Ceramic Plating. So instance isn’t usable. Anyway, other durability feats to prove Batsuit doesn’t have piercing weakness:

  • Scan 1: No sells a tranq dart. (Gotham Knights #11)
    • Scan 2: A Man-Bat couldn’t bite through his suit. Man-Bats can bite through metals. (Detective Comics Vol. 2 #26)

Taking a beating from class 100's is pretty standard. Bruce has also been hurt by bane, branca, deathstroke, deadshot using either blanks or a coin, etc.

Branca’s only feats would be doing that to Batman so you can’t really use him as anti feat. They did hurt him but he still tanked/withstood their attacks. Deathstroke needed a massive pummeling anyway, and that was with Batman’s past, less durable suit.

and yes black panther has used it quite frequently.

Multiple times in one fight? Also in essence this is an energy attack, is it not? The Energy Rejection system should work.

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jashro44

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@causeimbatman:

Yeah, but then they would be dealt with

Easier said than done. And they wouldn't be dealt with really. T'challa has been known to use the blades as projectiles so he can just reform the blades...

Its Detective Comics Vol. 2 #11:

This was a prototype device. Is there any proof batman still carries this device?

As long as there aren’t any anti feats.

If batman weren't that durable he wouldn't feel hits from people like bane. Even your own scans show batman having pain on his face and his armor cracking a bit from a bite with man-bat:

No Caption Provided

Batman even says on the next page that if man-bat's teeth were any harder they would bite through his armor.

The Chalice instance is Pre-2000s. Important because Batman’s 2000s Era suits were more durable. And there is proof there’s a difference between the suits, 1990s suits were made out of a triple weave of kevlar, 2000s ones were made out of Nomex and Ceramic Plating. So instance isn’t usable. Anyway, other durability feats to prove Batsuit doesn’t have piercing weakness:

The feats you posted below are more reasonable but I don't think there good enough to defend against vibranium claws.

Branca’s only feats would be doing that to Batman so you can’t really use him as anti feat.

Branca picking up a metal pole and swinging it down on batman could not break a metal pole batman used to defend himself. Heis clearly not herald level....

No Caption Provided

They did hurt him but he still tanked/withstood their attacks. Deathstroke needed a massive pummeling anyway, and that was with Batman’s past, less durable suit.

Yes he withstood there attacks before getting knocked out but he clearly took damage. I mean if Victor Zsasz can hurt batman I don't see why you need to be herald level...We've also seen batmans armor pierced by an arrow during batman 674, and during batman 650 Jason cut Bruce with his knife, if you need anti-feats.

Honestly I think batmans armor does have stabbing resistance however I just don't think he can tank herald level attacks. That is all I am trying to say.

Multiple times in one fight? Also in essence this is an energy attack, is it not? The Energy Rejection system should work.

Well I don't view every device batman has ever used once as standard gear. Especially when that weapon is a prototype. Batman's utility belt only has so much space.

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@jashro44:

T'challa has been known to use the blades as projectiles so he can just reform the blades

Fair enough.

This was a prototype device. Is there any proof batman still carries this device?

Why would it being a prototype change anything? I mean he carried it there even tho its a prototype

If batman weren't that durable he wouldn't feel hits from people like bane.

There’s a difference between piercing durability and blunt force. Prime example is WW

Even your own scans show batman having pain on his face and his armor cracking a bit from a bite with man-bat:

Yes, but his armor wasn’t pierced.

The feats you posted below are more reasonable but I don't think there good enough to defend against vibranium claws.

They aren’t, I was just showing Batsuit has no piercing weakness. Then we can go to the OMAC feat

Branca picking up a metal pole and swinging it down on batman could not break a metal pole batman used to defend himself.

So what?

Heis clearly not herald level....

No one said he is....

Yes he withstood there attacks before getting knocked out but he clearly took damage.

Exaclty what I said. Batman would take damage, but he’ll tank it considering that’s what he did.

I mean if Victor Zsasz can hurt batman I don't see why you need to be herald level.

When did he ever hurt him? That’s a massive low showing. Why do you keep screaming about herald lvl?

We've also seen batmans armor pierced by an arrow during batman 674,

Those were his gauntlets, made from a different material than the rest of the batsuit. Proven by him using them to block bullets rather taking bullets upfront.

and during batman 650 Jason cut Bruce with his knife

You have the Jason and Sensei instances. OMAC, Man-Bat and Tranq dart instances are more consistent, 3>2

Well I don't view every device batman has ever used once as standard gear. Especially when that weapon is a prototype. Batman's utility belt only has so much space.

Batman has over a hundred gadgets in his utility belt. Absurd but true.

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Jmarshmallow

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@jashro44 said:
@jmarshmallow said:

Clears with ease. Batman is more skilled than anyone here, and stats was the biggest thing that could be considered an advantage over some of these opponents.

Bringing in his gadgets, he takes the win.

@ithemanwithoutfeari said:

With stats equalized he stops at Black Panther. The tech advantage is huge.

Not at all mate. BP doesn't use his tech consistently enough in combat, not to mention he doesn't have nearly as much as Bruce.

Literally all he has done under Ta-Nihisi Coates is use his kinetic blast. I wish he would use his tech less.

True true. I was thinking some of his other gadgets like the Vibranium soles, teleportation, anti-metal daggers, cloaking device, flying car or whatever the heck that was.

He does certainly seem to like that IPad of his though.

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KrleAvenger

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@conner_wolf: I don't really like Batman, and I'm a huge Captain America fan. I don't really have interest in debating for a character I don't even like that much against my favorite super hero. However, I've read enough Batman comics to at least have an idea of how impressive he is. So with me trying to be objective, I don't really see Rogers taking the majority without superior stats (not that Rogers' only advantage over Batman are superior stats, but it's one of those advantages that I think he needs in order to win). Given the fact that you decided to share your thoughts on the outcome of this fight, I think it would be fair to reply back just to explain what I was trying to say.

I would honestly say they're on par with one another, when it comes down to it Cap and Batman are both amongst the best in their respective universes and it'd be unfair to Cap to just claim because we don't have anybody throwing out specific numbers or specific skill levels out there that he's not a master. It's pretty clear he contends with people like Iron Fist, Black Panther, Shang Chi, etc...

Wasn't trying to say that. Fact that Rogers held his own against people that are just superior to Bruce in most ways makes it a close fight despite this scenario. But when it comes to raw usage of skill and martial art knowledge, Batman seems more impressive to me. He is better trained, knows more martial art styles and his overall showing seems more impressive to me. Feel free to disagree if you want. I don't really have interest in trying to convince you because again, I don't care about Batman.

And why do you still think Batman takes a majority? Solely because of skill? Even if in pure skill he's superior, physicals still play a lot into skill, every strike Cap throws will be that much harder, every strike Batman throws will be that much less effective, every minute Batman will be that much more tired than Cap whereas Cap can go pretty much indefinitely, any wounds Batman inflicts will heal rather quickly whereas any injuries Batman receives won't heal for some time longer. Yeah Batman may be able to deal with big characters like Bane who rely on their Venom-usually by targetting their weak spots, but Cap has no weak spots to target, and when it comes to tactics Cap can outthink him by a landslide so a bit more skilled really isn't gonna mean he takes a majority.

Stats are equalized here. Rogers' physical advantage is non existing here because the OP specified that Bruce will be equally strong, fast and durable as anyone he's fighting here. I'm not sure what do you mean by Captain America not having weak spots. He does have weak spots. It's just harder to put him down with it because he's so physically strong, which doesn't mean much because Bruce is now on the same level as he is when it comes to stats (OP). Rogers has almost as much weak spots as regular human does. You just need enough skill, speed, strength and precision to do so. Not that this has much to do with the match-up itself since I haven't seen Bruce use nerve strikes as often as someone like Daredevil.

Then when it comes to gadgets, he doesn't have much that'll really phase Cap, honestly, cause anything he has, Cap has dealt with before, everything from cryogenic weaponry to fire to electricity, he's dealt with it all, and his suit even helps protect against the last two.

True, but it does not change the fact that Bruce's gear is extremely versatile and it can give Rogers a lot of problems. On top of that, Rogers has to deal with someone with equal strength, speed and durability (because of equalized stats). And I still think Batman is a better martial artist.

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shirso

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#39  Edited By shirso

Clears.

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conner_wolf

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Wasn't trying to say that. Fact that Rogers held his own against people that are just superior to Bruce in most ways makes it a close fight despite this scenario. But when it comes to raw usage of skill and martial art knowledge, Batman seems more impressive to me. He is better trained, knows more martial art styles and his overall showing seems more impressive to me. Feel free to disagree if you want. I don't really have interest in trying to convince you because again, I don't care about Batman.

"Seems more impressive" isn't actual evidence.

Better training doesn't actually impact practical skill.

Knowing more styles doesn't mean anything in a realistic sense either, at least when Cap can adapt to pretty much anything pulled out on him.

Stats are equalized here. Rogers' physical advantage is non existing here because the OP specified that Bruce will be equally strong, fast and durable as anyone he's fighting here. I'm not sure what do you mean by Captain America not having weak spots. He does have weak spots. It's just harder to put him down with it because he's so physically strong, which doesn't mean much because Bruce is now on the same level as he is when it comes to stats (OP). Rogers has almost as much weak spots as regular human does. You just need enough skill, speed, strength and precision to do so. Not that this has much to do with the match-up itself since I haven't seen Bruce use nerve strikes as often as someone like Daredevil.

Ok I actually missed that part, I still think the fight would be fairly even, I do not see Batman taking a majority. At the very least Cap has a far more dangerous weapon strapped to his arm that can do some serious damage-one Batman isn't disarming very easily, and one Batman does not have any evidence of knowing how to use even if he did.

Cap does not have weak spots in a way that classifies as a 'weak spot', he doesn't have a line feeding him his Super Soldier serum, he doesn't have some sort of specific way to beat him, you just have to out-fight him.

True, but it does not change the fact that Bruce's gear is extremely versatile and it can give Rogers a lot of problems. On top of that, Rogers has to deal with someone with equal strength, speed and durability (because of equalized stats). And I still think Batman is a better martial artist.

Versatility means nothing if it just isn't gonna hurt your enemy, yeah it may misdirect him, but Rogers isn't that easy to distract, nor is he that easy to mislead, it's just not going to be as effective as people think it will.

As for martial arts, just like you think Batman's martial arts are more impressive, I can give an actual reason as to why I think Cap's are better beyond 'they just feel superior to me'

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Voice_of_Death

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@conner_wolf: I don't think cap could out-think batman at all. Batman could probably clear. With the most difficult being black panther.

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#42  Edited By dami24434

stops at black panther who have better gears and precog.

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cdiddyman911

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Batman can't get passed Black Panther, a man who is Batmans intellectual and fighting skill equal, with far better gear to boot.

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@conner_wolf: You forgot to tag me.

"Seems more impressive" isn't actual evidence.

Better training doesn't actually impact practical skill.

Knowing more styles doesn't mean anything in a realistic sense either, at least when Cap can adapt to pretty much anything pulled out on him.

In my defense, I don't see any evidence in your argument either. Your claims are not any less assertive than mine and yet I see no evidence to back them up. The only reason why I didn't ask for evidence is because I consider myself Captain America expert and I know what you are talking about. And again, feel free to believe that they are equals skill wise. I'm not gonna try to argue against it because I have literally zero Batman scans saved on my hard drive and I don't feel like debating for him at all. Likewise, I know a lot about Captain America, and there are barely any feats I missed or haven't seen before.

Ok I actually missed that part, I still think the fight would be fairly even, I do not see Batman taking a majority. At the very least Cap has a far more dangerous weapon strapped to his arm that can do some serious damage-one Batman isn't disarming very easily, and one Batman does not have any evidence of knowing how to use even if he did.

I'm not sure why him not knowing anything about it is a factor. If anything, not having any info is Bruce's advantage because he has so many gadgets that are more versatile than the shield.

Cap does not have weak spots in a way that classifies as a 'weak spot', he doesn't have a line feeding him his Super Soldier serum, he doesn't have some sort of specific way to beat him, you just have to out-fight him.

Again, why is that a factor? Same exact thing can be said for Batman. Neither of them have their kryptonite so there's no point in bringing that up. It's not like Bruce's only tactics are beating people with weaknesses. You brought Bane up but his only weakness is preventing him from using Venom, which again, does not mean much when Bane's best feats of fighting prowess were preformed without the Venom.

Versatility means nothing if it just isn't gonna hurt your enemy, yeah it may misdirect him, but Rogers isn't that easy to distract, nor is he that easy to mislead, it's just not going to be as effective as people think it will.

You are making it look like Rogers is just gonna ignore all of Bruce's gadgets like he is Galactus and Bruce's equipment are Earth's super heroes.

As for martial arts, just like you think Batman's martial arts are more impressive, I can give an actual reason as to why I think Cap's are better beyond 'they just feel superior to me'

I'm sure you can. But you won't be able to show me anything I haven't seen before.

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@krleavenger: Him not knowing anything about Cap's shield is a factor because he's never dealt with somebody using a shield in their fighting style before.

And Bruce's tactics against a powerful opponent very often deal with targetting weak spots. No, he doesn't have to in order to win, but saying it's not how he deals with his foes is just a flat-out lie.

Cap can break out of being encased in ice, his uniform can redirect fire and energy, he can sit within incredibly powerful explosions and keep going. It's not going to be meaningless, but it's not like Batman is going to be dominating the fight like people say he will because of it.

I'm sure I can't, which is why it's so confusing that you have this stance you do. You're convinced Batman is better because... better training, and he just seems more impressive. As for evidence, I could post the issues of Black Panther pointing out his abilities, or him battling against other heroes and villains, but you've already claimed to be an expert.

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@voice_of_death: And why not? Cap has equally impressive, if not more impressive tactical feats than Batman.

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@conner_wolf: batman is known for thinking on his feet in nearly every fight (no PIS involved). Give me a feat of Captain America actually using tactics instead of just rushing in with "Avengers Assemble" or that intergalactic war which was totally PIS involved. Batman at the end of the day, is smarter, more tactical, more skillful, and with stats equalized, the Victor of their fight.

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#49  Edited By KrleAvenger

@conner_wolf:

Him not knowing anything about Cap's shield is a factor because he's never dealt with somebody using a shield in their fighting style before.

I still don't understand what you are trying to prove with that. Same exact thing can be said for Batman. Just not because of the shield.

And Bruce's tactics against a powerful opponent very often deal with targetting weak spots. No, he doesn't have to in order to win, but saying it's not how he deals with his foes is just a flat-out lie.

Except I never said that Bruce never relies on those tactics. Don't accuse of me of lying by throwing out strawman argument. Your notion of the fight seems weird to me (no offence of course) because Bruce's stats are equal to Cap's in this scenario. Therefor he does not have to rely on those tactics because he's not fighting a more powerful enemy. I mean, what are you trying to prove with this? That Bruce's tactics will be him trying to find Rogers' weak spots? The OP stated that Bruce and his opponent have basic knowledge on one another. So Bruce knows that there is not some specific way to take Cap down. He won't waste time trying to find non existing weak spots and then get taken down before it's too late.

Cap can break out of being encased in ice, his uniform can redirect fire and energy, he can sit within incredibly powerful explosions and keep going. It's not going to be meaningless, but it's not like Batman is going to be dominating the fight like people say he will because of it.

And isn't that one of the first things I told to @thor_parker82, which is the reason why you started this conversation with me? Post #31. I never said Bruce will be dominating the fight. I don't think he will, with or without equalized stats. People can say what they want but most people who argue for Batman don't read comics with other character he's fighting against or even Batman's comics himself.

I'm sure I can't, which is why it's so confusing that you have this stance you do. You're convinced Batman is better because... better training, and he just seems more impressive.

Better training is just one of the things I brought up. It wasn't the main part of my argument.

As for evidence, I could post the issues of Black Panther pointing out his abilities, or him battling against other heroes and villains, but you've already claimed to be an expert.

I assume you are talking about Contest of Champions II #4.

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@voice_of_death: Captain America leads the Avengers firstly, who have far better tactics and teamwork than the Justice League ever have.

You'll also have to be more specific because Cap has led multiple intergalactic wars. He led the forces against Thanos, he led forces again in Operation: Galactic Storm, he led the forces of the galaxy again, multiple times when he was thrown into an alternate universe by Korvac meant to break his will, but Cap beat him over and over again, faster each time despite Korvac learning his capabilities. He led massive intergalactic forces underneath this incredibly powerful leader's nose who only lost because Korvac would just reset the timeline each time Cap won. What was that about PIS?

There's recent showings like Cap's strategy allowing the villains to actually beat the hero to a pulp-which is pretty much a first-he avoided Armin Zola for twelve years in Dimension Z, he out-strategized Iron Man during Civil War-even beating his systems which could learn his fighting styles and tactics, so on, and so on, and so forth.

As for 'thinking on his feat' we don't often get narration because Marvel expects you to be intelligent enough to get it, but he is incredibly creative with not only his shield, but even Black Panther stated outright no matter what he does, Cap adapts to it.

Captain America at the end of the day is smarter, more tactical, just as skilled as Batman-if not more so-and even with stats equalized, Batman isn't going to win a majority.