Bats and T'Challa die. A lot of those heavy hitters require a period of time to prep for. Barring some OP artifact retrieval or some dimension dump portal of some sort (-____-), the duo die...fast.
Bats and T'Challa die. A lot of those heavy hitters require a period of time to prep for. Barring some OP artifact retrieval or some dimension dump portal of some sort (-____-), the duo die...fast.
Take in mind they already have their existing contingency plans (Forgot to add on the original post)
So this is an unfair battle. Bruce and t'challa wins.
Take in the Fact that The Avengers have Tony on their side and the JL have Cyborg, he's probably smarter than T'Challa and Bruce (assumption not fact) and he could probably create counter measures for their contingency plans and Cyborg could do the same thing.
I actually think BP and Bats got this. The vast resources of Wakanda combined with their intellect should do a lot. Plus, Batman already has contingency plans for the Justice League.
Team STOMPS. Those plans only worked because multiple other people helped carry them out. Also, this time the teams are ready to fight.
Thor, Hulk,WW, Flash have no real weakness if they are ready to fight. I can't thinkof anything in their arsenal that can beat both teams without PIS involved
Thor should be dealt with via imprisonment in a vibranium cage or something, since he indeed has no exploitable weaknesses. Hulk can be turned to banner by absorbing his gamma radiation. I think WW is vulnerable to toxic gas. And Flash can stopped by gravity manipulation or lack of friction.
@all-father: I compared Tony and Bruce because that is what BN93 asked me to do, from what I understand as there is no other reason for him to ask me for an opinion about this particular fight. As for the fight itself, I don't remember any feats that prove they can beat those teams.
How long would it take him to implement those plans? I've heard of them too, but is it just a light switch he flickers and anti-Flash, anti-Superman devices and events just start happening, or is it some assembly required kinda stuff? Thought it's been said that he has all this stuff, I find it RIDICULOUSLY hard to believe that he can stop a man that moves at attosecond timing amongst other speedsters, a genius in Cyborg, finding a way to stop Hal (who's gone toe to toe with some heavy hitters), etc AT THE SAME TIME.
The same goes with Black Panther.
If these contingency plans are just, "put death ray here, set anti gamma suction tool here, place Kryptonite blasted here," etc, then yeah, I guess that anything can happen.
But in MY opinion, they should die. There are too many variables here. It's not like they're going against solely speedsters or solely bricks so they can prep for that and counter it. They have godly warriors, speedsters, a Lantern Ring carrier, geniuses, etc, all coming at them at the same time?
Ok, first I am going to assume you are talking about current Post-Civil War roster for the Avengers. Those are:
Cpt. America
Hercules
Thor (Jane Foster)
Vision
Spider-Man
Wasp
For the N52 JL (I assume you are not including Shazam):
Superman
WW
Flash
GL
Aquaman
Cyborg
With that being said, the major factors would be:
Thor
Vision (Possibly)
Superman
WW
Flash
I could see BP taking down the rest. I'm not sure if he has a contingency plan for Thor and Vision. I haven't kept up with Jane Foster.
On the DC side, we saw him take down Aquaman quite easily. Cyborg and GL he had a cybernetic nerve tree and citrine neuralizer, but they weren't present for Endgame. He has taken Cyborg in the past though.
Superman it really depends on his immunity to Kryptonite and Red Sun. This varies from writer to writer. Assuming the edge case where he has a very high tolerance, then it doesn't look good for BP&Bats. However, the plan from Babel could stall Superman, not sure if that is a win condition.
WW he could take down with the 'bind of veils'.
Flash--here's the thing, his contingency in End Game relied on the Flash NOT being at optimal speed. The one in Tower of Babel relied on the Flash being still long enough to shoot the bullet. They could try some of the tricks The Rogues have used in the past, but again most of those relied on the Flash NOT moving at optimal speed. Flash would be the main problem.
I will give them some leeway here and give them about 1-2/10.
@algorhythm511: I doubt the bind would work. If he still has it he would have to get it on her, and she isn't weakened here like she was when he used it on her the first time. Not only that but she will be expecting it. She never new it existed the first time he used it.
@algorhythm511: I doubt the bind would work. If he still has it he would have to get it on her, and she isn't weakened here like she was when he used it on her the first time. Not only that but she will be expecting it. She never new it existed the first time he used it.
He can use the one from Tower of Babel, which just consisted of injecting some nanites into her head and lock her in a battle in her head. She'll just think she's fighting Cheetah or Ares whilst she is actually fighting one of her teammates.
He's much more agile that Bats, so if she happened to charge at him (which she probably will) he can just jump over here and quickly inject. There are solutions to WW, anesthetic gas worked on Superwoman (Crime Syndicate counter part) and it can work on her.
@all-father: If you are implying that BP can react to a blitz from WW then your scenario will never work. Her travel speed is near light speed. Her combat speed is above light speed. As said, those "contingency plans" only work if we nerf the JLA and Avengers abilities.
@all-father: If you are implying that BP can react to a blitz from WW then your scenario will never work. Her travel speed is near light speed. Her combat speed is above light speed. As said, those "contingency plans" only work if we nerf the JLA and Avengers abilities.
New 52 Wonder Woman doesn't have any Light Speed feats to my knowledge, if you're talking about pre-new 52 then i concur she can easily avoid him., but i'm using N52 versions so if you have some scans for Light Speed WW provide them if you may. As for Black Panther, I've never seen him lose an encounter with anyone (to my knowledge) Superhuman or Not.
@all-father: Ahh, this is New 52. She has speed to keep up with Kryptonians at the very least and reflect bullets from multiple automatic weapons.
And Panther has NEVER defeated anyone like Superman, Thor, Hulk, Green Lantern etc.
Hulk: What wapon have either of them built that can beat hulk?
Thor: Cages won't work because he can lift them and still use his powers inside the cage.
Green Lantern: How do they get through his shields?
Superman: As soon as he feels Kryptonite he incinerates it.
WW: Gas. She can hold her breathe or fly into the air. Or Hulk dispersed the gas with a thunder clap.
Those contingency plans worked when the team was separated and unprepared. They have far to many people for those plans to work now. Plus they can use teamwork. And are prepared to fight. This group is powerful enough to take over planets. Two street levelers aren't beating them.
@all-father: Ahh, this is New 52. She has speed to keep up with Kryptonians at the very least and reflect bullets from multiple automatic weapons.
And Panther has NEVER defeated anyone like Superman, Thor, Hulk, Green Lantern etc.
Hulk: What wapon have either of them built that can beat hulk?
Black Panther does have his own hulk buster suit made of vibranium, and if that doesn't work they can just absorb the gamma radiation and revert him back to Banner
Thor: Cages won't work because he can lift them and still use his powers inside the cage.
Green Lantern: How do they get through his shields?
Deathstroke broke Gl's fingers rendering him useless, they could do the same.
Superman: As soon as he feels Kryptonite he incinerates it.
They don't need to necessarily use Kryptonite, he has other weaknesses.
WW: Gas. She can hold her breathe or fly into the air. Or Hulk dispersed the gas with a thunder clap.
It doesn't have to bee anesthetic gas precisely, Scarecrows Fear Toxin or Jokers laughing gas or Silicon Gas are options for them. They can tie here bracelets together but i don't think that is considered a weakness for her anymore.
Those contingency plans worked when the team was separated and unprepared. They have far to many people for those plans to work now. Plus they can use teamwork. And are prepared to fight. This group is powerful enough to take over planets. Two street levelers aren't beating them.
Thor is the only person i don't see them handling, also don't you think calling Batman and Black Panther "street levelers" is a bit too harsh?
Bats and T'Challa die. A lot of those heavy hitters require a period of time to prep for. Barring some OP artifact retrieval or some dimension dump portal of some sort (-____-), the duo die...fast.
@all-father: While Panther is fighting Hulk. What is he gonna do when Thor and Iron Man start attacking? In your mind Panther can dfeat Thor, Hulk and Iron Man attacking at once?
When have either of them drained someone as powerful as Hulk?
Did Gl have his shields up against DS? NOPE. GL tried to fist fight him. That's PIS. What is Batman gonna do when he's facing GL, WW, and Supes at the same time?
Again each person is gonna face 4 or 5 people AT ONCE. The team can blitz, AOE attacks, control the weather, heat vision, strength to destroy mountains. And you think TWO humans can stop ALL OF THEM??
@all-father: While Panther is fighting Hulk. What is he gonna do when Thor and Iron Man start attacking? In your mind Panther can dfeat Thor, Hulk and Iron Man attacking at once?
When have either of them drained someone as powerful as Hulk?
T'Challa has reverse engineered Doctor Doom's cosmic harness that lets him drain the power cosmic to take down beings such as Galactus and Silver Surfer, if he can do that then draining something as simple as Gamma Radiation won't be a problem for him. The plans for Galactus have never been shown or executed, but most people agree that this is the probable plan
Did Gl have his shields up against DS? NOPE. GL tried to fist fight him. That's PIS. What is Batman gonna do when he's facing GL, WW, and Supes at the same time?
Again each person is gonna face 4 or 5 people AT ONCE. The team can blitz, AOE attacks, control the weather, heat vision, strength to destroy mountains. And you think TWO humans can stop ALL OF THEM??
Why not? With their combined intellect and the vast resources of Wakanda and Wayne Enterprises, i do believe their is a remote possibility of them winning. It doesn't matter if at the same time or not, whats stopping from planting their plans in the battle grounds? If executed correctly (Thats a big IF) 3 or 4 can go down in minutes.
@all-father: Ahh, this is New 52. She has speed to keep up with Kryptonians at the very least and reflect bullets from multiple automatic weapons.
And Panther has NEVER defeated anyone like Superman, Thor, Hulk, Green Lantern etc.
Hulk: What wapon have either of them built that can beat hulk?
Black Panther does have his own hulk buster suit made of vibranium, and if that doesn't work they can just absorb the gamma radiation and revert him back to Banner
Thor: Cages won't work because he can lift them and still use his powers inside the cage.
Green Lantern: How do they get through his shields?
Deathstroke broke Gl's fingers rendering him useless, they could do the same.
Superman: As soon as he feels Kryptonite he incinerates it.
They don't need to necessarily use Kryptonite, he has other weaknesses.
WW: Gas. She can hold her breathe or fly into the air. Or Hulk dispersed the gas with a thunder clap.
It doesn't have to bee anesthetic gas precisely, Scarecrows Fear Toxin or Jokers laughing gas or Silicon Gas are options for them. They can tie here bracelets together but i don't think that is considered a weakness for her anymore.
Those contingency plans worked when the team was separated and unprepared. They have far to many people for those plans to work now. Plus they can use teamwork. And are prepared to fight. This group is powerful enough to take over planets. Two street levelers aren't beating them.
Thor is the only person i don't see them handling, also don't you think calling Batman and Black Panther "street levelers" is a bit too harsh?
Hold up, Amadeus Cho, who is quite a bit weaker than the real hulk, tanked the suit draining him for 4 PAGES,and every time he got serious and punches with actual anger, he ripped the suit apart. I literally think every time he got serious he put a hole in it or ripped off a limb.
the suit DEFINITELY isn't even close to working on a more powerful hulk.
@all-father: Ahh, this is New 52. She has speed to keep up with Kryptonians at the very least and reflect bullets from multiple automatic weapons.
And Panther has NEVER defeated anyone like Superman, Thor, Hulk, Green Lantern etc.
Hulk: What wapon have either of them built that can beat hulk?
Black Panther does have his own hulk buster suit made of vibranium, and if that doesn't work they can just absorb the gamma radiation and revert him back to Banner
Thor: Cages won't work because he can lift them and still use his powers inside the cage.
Green Lantern: How do they get through his shields?
Deathstroke broke Gl's fingers rendering him useless, they could do the same.
Superman: As soon as he feels Kryptonite he incinerates it.
They don't need to necessarily use Kryptonite, he has other weaknesses.
WW: Gas. She can hold her breathe or fly into the air. Or Hulk dispersed the gas with a thunder clap.
It doesn't have to bee anesthetic gas precisely, Scarecrows Fear Toxin or Jokers laughing gas or Silicon Gas are options for them. They can tie here bracelets together but i don't think that is considered a weakness for her anymore.
Those contingency plans worked when the team was separated and unprepared. They have far to many people for those plans to work now. Plus they can use teamwork. And are prepared to fight. This group is powerful enough to take over planets. Two street levelers aren't beating them.
Thor is the only person i don't see them handling, also don't you think calling Batman and Black Panther "street levelers" is a bit too harsh?
Hold up, Amadeus Cho, who is quite a bit weaker than the real hulk, tanked the suit draining him for 4 PAGES,and every time he got serious and punches with actual anger, he ripped the suit apart. I literally think every time he got serious he put a hole in it or ripped off a limb.
the suit DEFINITELY isn't even close to working on a more powerful hulk.
Which why i said if the suit doesn't work he can resort to drain the Gamma Radiation.
@all-father: Neither Wayne nor Tchalla have EVER defeated a team this large or this powerful.
Even without Hulk, a team of Supes, WW,GL,Thor would defeat them. Plus Flash can speed steal from a distance. Those two have no chance of defeating ALL OF THEM.
I base all my decisions pretending that they will fight 11x. Whoever wins the majority is the winner.
@all-father: Ahh, this is New 52. She has speed to keep up with Kryptonians at the very least and reflect bullets from multiple automatic weapons.
And Panther has NEVER defeated anyone like Superman, Thor, Hulk, Green Lantern etc.
Hulk: What wapon have either of them built that can beat hulk?
Black Panther does have his own hulk buster suit made of vibranium, and if that doesn't work they can just absorb the gamma radiation and revert him back to Banner
Thor: Cages won't work because he can lift them and still use his powers inside the cage.
Green Lantern: How do they get through his shields?
Deathstroke broke Gl's fingers rendering him useless, they could do the same.
Superman: As soon as he feels Kryptonite he incinerates it.
They don't need to necessarily use Kryptonite, he has other weaknesses.
WW: Gas. She can hold her breathe or fly into the air. Or Hulk dispersed the gas with a thunder clap.
It doesn't have to bee anesthetic gas precisely, Scarecrows Fear Toxin or Jokers laughing gas or Silicon Gas are options for them. They can tie here bracelets together but i don't think that is considered a weakness for her anymore.
Those contingency plans worked when the team was separated and unprepared. They have far to many people for those plans to work now. Plus they can use teamwork. And are prepared to fight. This group is powerful enough to take over planets. Two street levelers aren't beating them.
Thor is the only person i don't see them handling, also don't you think calling Batman and Black Panther "street levelers" is a bit too harsh?
Hold up, Amadeus Cho, who is quite a bit weaker than the real hulk, tanked the suit draining him for 4 PAGES,and every time he got serious and punches with actual anger, he ripped the suit apart. I literally think every time he got serious he put a hole in it or ripped off a limb.
the suit DEFINITELY isn't even close to working on a more powerful hulk.
Which why i said if the suit doesn't work he can resort to drain the Gamma Radiation.
Totally Awesome Hulk #10 and 11.
scans
Gallery
that's kinda the point. he tried draining and it failed on a weaker hulk, and he had been preparing the suit for issues, so if that's the best he can do for draining against a weaker hulk, let alone bannerhulk, who has resisted draining from beings who fed on stars, black panther isn't doing much.
@all-father: Neither Wayne nor Tchalla have EVER defeated a team this large or this powerful.
Even without Hulk, a team of Supes, WW,GL,Thor would defeat them. Plus Flash can speed steal from a distance. Those two have no chance of defeating ALL OF THEM.
Batman has beaten Supes countless times (With PIS and without), Green Lanterns can be tricked, they can be distracted, they can be outsmarted, etc. WW as mentioned does have weaknesses that can utilized to the twos advantage. You can only speed steal from a speedster, not from a machine. When Deathstroke fought the JLA he took out Wally West flash by a series of explosions then just knocked him out. The only problem they'll probably have is with thor, but i can safely assume with their combined intellect they can figure out a way to neutralize him.
I base all my decisions pretending that they will fight 11x. Whoever wins the majority is the winner.
Avengers/jla win 10.5/11
Nope, Bruce and T'Challa have a small winning chance. The whole point of a battle is have two sides fight and each having a margin of winning, weather it being small or Large. I concur it will be an immensely difficult task, but they do have a fighting chance if they pre-install most of their plans as traps around the battlefield, if they are executed in the correct way 3 or 4 heavy hitters can go down within minutes.
T'Challa only had contingency plans against Galactus, not the Avengers. Part of that plan worked successfully on Silver Surfer, though. And no, it didn't involve that armbar shit.
@all-father: Let's assume that the duo use prep to and have their stuff already to go. Name the heavy hitters who can go down in minutes and how do they go down?
@all-father: Let's assume that the duo use prep to and have their stuff already to go. Name the heavy hitters who can go down in minutes and how do they go down?
Superman fly's into a designated are and gets taken down by Red Sun Rays, the same way Bats beat him In "Superman Red Son".
Hulk, steps into the hidden Gamma Radiation drainer and reverts back to Banner.
Green Lantern, can be easily ambushed the second he shows up, gets knocked out. If i Recall correctly Batman called Guy and idiot and Hal a glory dog.
Wonder Woman can be immediately hit with an extremely concentrated dose of Scarecrows Fear Toxin
Flash can be taken out the same way Deathstroke took him out, they set a set of explosives around a certain area and quickly knock him out.
@all-father: Your scenario has the team acting very stupidly and not using their abilities.
SUperman. Why would he fly into a designated area when he has xray vision and can see a trap is waiting? Superman can use heat vision from a distance and destroy the machines.
Hulk: What are the chances that Hulk steps on the specific location? Also, the team doesn't have a device that can instantly drain Hulk.
Green Lantern: You're using ONE single PIS low showing to say that a GL can be taken out quickly. GL can attack from a distance and has shields. There is ZERO reason for him to get close to the duo.
WW: Like Superman, she would have to go to a specific location. ANd gas can only cover a certain area. She can move from that area.
Flash: again you are using the same PIS low showing you used for Green lantern. Flash is faster then ANY explosion. By the time the explosion is triggered he is gone.
The team would to forget their powers an go exactly where the duo wants in order for them to win.
The duo will appear frozen to Flash and Superman. In a real fight with no PIS, the fight is over before the duo know it.You are using one PIS moment from Flash. Here is flash dodging a nuclear explosion. Not only does he dodge it, he goes back and forth rescuing 532,000 people!!! So if he carried two people at a time then he made over 100,000 trips before the explosion reached him
@all-father: Your scenario has the team acting very stupidly and not using their abilities.
SUperman. Why would he fly into a designated area when he has xray vision and can see a trap is waiting? Superman can use heat vision from a distance and destroy the machines.
This isn't exactly an issue, they can just build them or cover them using lead.
Hulk: What are the chances that Hulk steps on the specific location? Also, the team doesn't have a device that can instantly drain Hulk.
They don't need to put the machine in one specific place, they can cover the entire area with it. If he gets exposed to too much radiation he will supposedly implode. If he gets his gamma radiation taken away very quickly, he'll revert back to Banner.
Green Lantern: You're using ONE single PIS low showing to say that a GL can be taken out quickly. GL can attack from a distance and has shields. There is ZERO reason for him to get close to the duo.
Again, Green Lanterns can be easily outsmarted. He doesn't have to get close to any of them, one of them can ambush him before the fight even starts
WW: Like Superman, she would have to go to a specific location. ANd gas can only cover a certain area. She can move from that area.
Nope, if they can get their hands on a cloudburst (which they can) they are able to cover an entire city with fear toxin, in this case the battleground.
Flash: again you are using the same PIS low showing you used for Green lantern. Flash is faster then ANY explosion. By the time the explosion is triggered he is gone.
It isn't PIS, Deathstroke strategically prepared for a fight for Wally at the specific location and had already planted explosives in the vicinity. And if you're insisting on calling it PIS, Captain colds freeze ray slows the accelerating molecules and prevents him from generating kinetic energy , causes him to slowdown and not be able to accelerate, and we both can safely assume Batman can get his hands on Captain Colds Freeze Ray. Another way is to reduce the gravity in the area, which will slow him down significantly. He has the same weaknesses as any other human being, he can be affected by the Fear Toxin as well, if he wants to avoid that, hell have to run at insane speeds to avoid the poison affecting him, but then again Scarecrows fear toxin mixed with a bit of kryptonite was able to affect Superman, so just an extremely high concentrated dose should able to deal with flash.
The team would to forget their powers an go exactly where the duo wants in order for them to win.
The duo will appear frozen to Flash and Superman. In a real fight with no PIS, the fight is over before the duo know it.You are using one PIS moment from Flash. Here is flash dodging a nuclear explosion. Not only does he dodge it, he goes back and forth rescuing 532,000 people!!! So if he carried two people at a time then he made over 100,000 trips before the explosion reached him
Log in to comment