Batfleck/Steve Rogers (IW) vs Brainwashed Bucky/Mirakuru Roy

Bruce might be a weak link(I'd need to see Roy's feats to be sure). I'm thinking Bucky and Roy because Steve needs a slightly more superhuman partner. I do think Steve is probably slightly above Bucky but its nothing major at all.

Batfleck is a massive weak link.

Bucky and Roy takes this.

Batfleck AKA ''Sexual-Harassment Man'' gets stomped either way.

Dammit I didn’t get to vote for the las option, I read too fast.

Anyways Bruce is fodder in this scenario and Cap gets overwhelmed.

Bruce is a weak link

Bruces gear is a bit to limited here. Not sure how he would do against Roy. Roy is fast enough to catch an arrow so batman wont hit him with a batarang I doubt. Maybe a grapple around the leg could tie up Roy since he is very aggressive with mirakuru and doesn't think clearly. Not sure if that is feasible. I can't think of anyway to leave Roy hanging upside-down in this setting, and it doesn't offer stealth or even much room to dodge. If this were in some type of warehouse or a city at night I might argue batman using stealth to get a grapple around Roy's leg so cap can beat Bucky. Especially if batman helps. Than if Roy gets down they could double team him.

However in this setting team 2 wins.

Team 2.

Bruce is a weak link, he can't harm neither Bucky or Roy with his presented gear and Cap can't take both at once..

Poor Bruce. Can we give him some sticky bombs or some more gear? Cap gets ganged up on. He probably holds his own for awhile but ultimately gets taken out, especially with no shield.

Give Batfleck more gear and perhaps a little bit of prep to make this fair.

Idk where the idea that Batman's gonna die like a background fodder but he's been in worse fights and survived just fine. Either him or Steve can more than take Buck in H2H then relieve the other and take down Roy

@the_gaurdian: unlike Cap who went toe-to-toe with Loki, Ultron, Ironman, even managed to held 5 gems Thanos, Batman doesn't have any impressive feats he ran away from Doomsday, didn't try to fight Steppenwolf head on, even get ragdolled by parademons, he relies too much on his gadgets,

I like batman and still hopes he'll get more decents feats in the future

@blueshoecant: Cap got bodied by all 3 once he lost his shield and wasn't making any headway when he had it so Idk why you brought it up. And if you think he stalled Thanos and that Batman has no impressive feats you're kidding yourself

Steve can stomp Bucky easily. If Batfleck can hold off Roy long enough for Cap to intervene they could win. Otherwise Team 2.

Steve is not stomping Bucky. Period. He's matched Steve repeatedly every time they've fought.

Team 1.

Team 2. Steve can beat Bucky and Roy but Bruce would lose To any of them and cap can’t hang with both so. Bucky and Roy win.

In the final battle against The Winter Soldier. Cap was beating Bucky relatively easily whilst trying to insert the Card. And Cap has only improved since then.

Captain is a weak link. So team 2

@subline:

In the final battle against The Winter Soldier. Cap was beating Bucky relatively easily whilst trying to insert the Card.

He was not beating him relatively easily. Bucky got good hits in and managed to stab Steve. The part that you're talking about with the chip was when Cap had the shield which he doesn't have here.

Bucky still did decently in that portion of the fight as well.

Dodging multiple shield strikes, blocking a couple and managing to break into Cap's guard for a punch before knocking him over the rail.

The Russo's stated repeatedly in the directors commentary for TWS that they are equals. I think I've seen @dstreet45 post where they also stated that Steve was not holding back and had to push himself to his max in his final fight with Bucky during WS.

Him winning was also circumstantial as he only garnered the upperhand against Bucky when Bucky was focused on the chip and not Steve.

That there is not going to happen in a regular fight.

Overall you can argue that Steve was more skilled than Bucky and that he would beat him H2H. Infact I would agree with both of those statements. But he is not stomping someone like Bucky. Period. Bucky has consistently matched him and even gained upperhand at points in their fights.

And Cap has only improved since then.

I don't know if this is certain. It makes sense but if it's true than so has Bucky. Because Cap doesn't do any better against Bucky than he did before. Take this fight in Civil War

You can argue that Steve wasn't fully prepared in that instance but that is only going to matter to a certain extent. And he clearly was still trying. Yet he was being overwhelmed.

Bucky has also consistently performed impressively against opponents that Steve has fought as well like Black Panther and Iron Man.

The fact of the matter is it's a very close fight. I don't see how you can deny that with it being H2H when Bucky has the metal arm to his advantage. Steve can win on a good day and Bucky can win on a good day. They have both garnered upperhands against each other to often for anything else to be true. Saying that Steve wins is a fair assessment that I agree with. Even saying that he wins in a good fight but decisively is something that I could understand(though disagree with). But arguing that he stomps is just completely incorrect. How does one stomp someone that has consistently matched him and performed comparably against opponents that they both fought?

@subline: It was a close fight to the death between two of the most highly trained fighters in the world (who happened to super soldiers). The Russo Bros outright stated as much in the Captain America TWS Director's commentary. They also something along the lines of Cap being pushed to his limits and that Cap put the collective motive (stopping Hydra) over his personal motives (connecting with Bucky) and it gets to the point where Cap doesn't even think twice before breaking Bucky's arm to retrieve the chip, again their words. I'll post the vid of the commentary when I have time.

It was a close fight, cut and dry.

@amcu: Fair enough, but if Bruce can hold Roy off for long enough for Cap to finish with Bucky, I think a tired Cap would and maybe a bit injured would beat Roy.

@dstreet45: @amcu:Do either of you have the exact quotes on the Russos calling Bucky and Cap equals?

Thing is though Bruce gets stomped by Roy.

I doubt Roy vs Bruce is closer than Steve vs Bucky. Roy's physicals are just a little too superhuman for Bruce IMO. That fight won't be over in a few seconds or anything but it's not going to be close either. Steve and Bucky are going to go the distance with each other. Neither can put the other down quickly with blunt strikes. They've both taken loads of strikes from the other and never had a problem with it, infact both have taken being hit by Vibranium shield as well and shrugged it off. And that's much more devastating than they're own strikes. The only other way for the fight to be over relatively quickly is if one gets the other into a hold. And I can't see that happening quickly without outside circumstances.

1:44:29-1:45:16 (Context: Bucky killing the SHIELD pilots)- "The violence of this sequence is to illustrate the threat of this character right before he engages with Cap, you get to see again how viscous and unstoppable he is and how relentless he is.... (1:45:06) and then you send him up into a conflict with Cap with the hopes that from a narrative standpoint are that you feel the danger coming for Captain America...death comes for Captain America."

1:49:19-1:51:01 (Context: Bucky facing off against Cap in the Hellicarrier)- "Cap is Rocky, this third act is Rocky to the extent that you're watching him go 12 rounds with Apollo Creed. And a lot of what you try to do with thiese villain moments are to put the character on the ropes in a in a way where you feel like they won't come off the ropes. That's Rocky getting cornered and pummeled..." They also said that Bucky beat the crap out of Steve and that it took everything Steve had to finish the mission (1:50:27).

1:51:34-1:52:00 (Context: Final Fight)- "I mean these guys are the most highly trained Super Soldiers—they are the highly trained soldiers in the world who happen to be Super Soldiers who are battling each other to the death, it's not going to be pretty..."

1:17:59-1:18:42 Context (Talking about Bucky during the Highway fight):

"When he's sent to kill you, you're dead and the only one who could barely escape is Captain America." (1:18:05)

"If Cap is the is the world's greatest soldier, he's the world's greatest assassin" (1:18:10)

"They're equally matched" (1:18:26)

@jashro44

@dstreet45: Awesome. Thank you very much. Its much appreciated.

@jashro44: No problem.

Team 2 Bruce is a weak-link here

Bruce gets lolstomped no matter who he faces, even if he had gear.

Cap isn’t winning a 2v1.

I mean, their skills do balance out in a way. Ranged combat goes to Winter Soldier and cqc goes to Captain America. Bucky never incapped Steve in cqc the way Steve did to him, only BFR'd him when he was off-guard and didn't have his shield. Even in their first cqc fight, Steve did more damage despite being more injured prior to the fight. When Bucky had his grenade launcher, he sent Steve flying away and Bucky can catch and block shield tosses. No one is completely superior to the other, but they aren't equals at the same things. Soldiers and assassins are different. Bucky is also more aggressive while Steve is more defensive. Bucky makes Steve work for a victory, but he does slightly worse than Cap in most scenarios where cqc is involved.

So Steve vs Buck & Roy? He dies