Bat Family VS Marvel Team

bat family includes :

Orphan (cass)

Nightwing

Red hood

Batman

and Azrael

VS

Iron fist

Black widow

Black panther

Elektra

and Daredevil

both teams bloodlusted

both teams get 2 weeks of prep

standard gear

they start 50 feet apart

round 1: random encounter

round 2: with 2 weeks prep

penny for your thoughts

@mohdali2805: wait.wait........

Giving someone like Batman or Black Panther 2 weeks of prep is insane. With their intellect and resources who knows what they would come up with?!?!?!

Regardless..........take away the prep and a straight up fight? Marvel team takes it.

@cosmicallyaware1: okay

With prep this is between Batman & Black Panther.

Straight up fight - Marvel Team stomps.

Strait up fight - Marvel, probably in a stomp

Prep - Batman solos, in a stomp. Black Panther isn’t impressive prep wise

okay read the new rules

@originalcaptain: read new rules

@mohdali2805:

Yup, this all day every day lol

and who knows how the prep war goes. Any stipulations on that? Any and all resources at disposal? If so that's scary............Panther gets ahold of Illuminati buddy Reed Richards and I don't care how smart Bruce is. Reed and T'challa together with 2 weeks prep and unlimited resources at their disposal mop the floor with anything Bruce comes up with.

Marvel team both rounds

@cosmicallyaware1: Reed would count as outside help

Batman stomps with 2 weeks of prep. Panther has some good tech feats, but nothing really showing strong prep skills

Having two dudes with high amounts of fire power and next to no morals (Hood and Azrael) as well as having Bruce's most skilled dudes (Nightwing and Orphan) makes this much easier.

Marvel team has better overall power stats, but Bats prep will do tons of damage, especially bloodlusted.

@mohdali287, do both teams have full knowledge about each other?

he actually is very impressive prep wise, not to mention with the technological advancements Wakanda has that Batman doesn't have access to, it's a lot closer than you're making it out to be.

@itouchedtheboat: So then tell me: What can he actually do? Get some building busting prowlers and his low high tier Hulkbuster? That’s all?

@causeimbatman: from what I remember he beat Tony when both of them had prep, and he also had some other feat that when I read it I thought 'that's something Batman would do'. I'm not entirely revised in his feats (I think Jashro the mod is) all my point was they're a lot closer than you were making out to be.

@itouchedtheboat: I read the fight between him and Tony. It’s not impressive. Panther only beat him using very specific methods, it’s not applicable to fighting any character. And it’s not like Iron man prepped seriously, mostly his most impressive prep in that fight was a stealth suit....a freakin stealth suit.

@causeimbatman: Not debating here, but why do you feel Panther is unimpressive with prep?

@blackspidey2099: And do you feel the same?

@darthjhawk: Because he can’t do much in a prep battle Vs. other preppers. He’s decent but not Iron Man/Batman Tier. Tho even if we go by prep feats, I don’t find him impressive.

Are you saying because he doesn't always make OP technology like a Hellbat or multiple Iron Man Suits?

@darthjhawk: No, I don’t care on how much he makes OP tech. It’s just his best tech and prep still isn’t Batman/IM tier. It’s simple, really

I see well can you give me a comparison or break it down more for me, because you say you don't care about tech, but you consider him unimpressive because his tech and prep isn't Bats or IM tier, you kind of confused me haha

@darthjhawk: I said I don’t care how much (much being keyword) he makes OP tech. I don’t need him to make tech a lot to find him impressive. But going by his best feats, he’s not.

@causeimbatman: What do you consider his best feats?

@darthjhawk said:

I somewhat agree with @causeimbatman tbh (but not 100% - which is why I edited his quote a little bit when I posted it). T'Challa is definitely impressive with prep, but I feel like most of his inventions aren't that great with the exception of the opaque force field projector which beat Thanos (but you already know my feelings on why that isn't a prep/intellect feat solely for T'Challa) and of course, the suits he has (though those also aren't solely intellect feats since I'd say a large part is also due to the fact he can work with vibranium, which has a ton of super-useful properties). Of course, I'm definitely not as knowledgeable regarding Black Panther's feats as you are, so I'd be interested in seeing your arguments otherwise.

@darthjhawk: Depowering Surfer (although there’s the piece of context of Panther’s tech being based on Doom’s), Hulkbuster, Vs. Iron Man.

@blackspidey2099:

but I feel like most of his inventions aren't that great

Really like what?

the suits he has (though those also aren't solely intellect feats since I'd say a large part is also due to the fact he can work with vibranium, which has a ton of super-useful properties)

You don't think its impressive that he is consistently one of the only people to mold a material like vibranium and weave into a suit? Interesting. I see.

What makes those so unimpressive to you?

@darthjhawk: because they’re not nearly as good as Batman’s feats...I was basing impressiveness on T’Challa’s opponent. That’s what I normally base impressiveness on in the context of a battle

What feats are you comparing them to that makes them that much less impressive?

@darthjhawk:

Really like what?

This is getting a bit off topic I feel, but the best feats he has IMO are:

• opaque field projector (built with help and using Blue Marvel's tech for parts)
  
• Hulkbuster (despite being made with vibranium which can absorb energy, he still gets punked by Amadeus who is weaker than Bruce)
• Depowering Silver Surfer (used Doom's tech)
• Designing life raft to survivethe destruction of the universe (used the dead Living Tribunal's skin as a material)
• Shadow Physics/Nowhere Room stuff (this one is IMO the most impressive feat he has)
• The other issue is that it's hard to say how much of his tech/gear (like the energy daggers) are built by him because it's established that he has a whole team of scientists who help him - I may be off base with this one, though, because IDK if it's 100% for sure that his scientists actually help build any Black Panther tech. I do know that he designs that actual habits himself based on Rise of the Black Panther #3 though.
  
• Designing the armor he had in Hudlin's run when he was a teen was impressive, but IDK if it had any great feats.

You don't think its impressive that he is consistently one of the only people to mold a material like vibranium and weave into a suit? Interesting. I see.

What's so difficult about molding vibranium? Making a suit out of vibranium doesn't seem as impressive as making a suit out of stronger materials. And I'm pretty sure like every Wakandan scientist in the WDG can manipulate vibranium, AFAIK at least.

@blackspidey2099: So it’s all about the tech for you then it seems, not necessarily the tactics or application of strategy along with them. I see.

@darthjhawk: Brother EYE (Post Crisis), high herald-teambuster lvl weaponry, creating a synthic mineral in a short amount of time that depowered the Superman+ Wraith, reverse engineering a motherbox, etc

@causeimbatman: So it is pretty much about tech then for you as well. I see. Well that’s all I wanted to know, as I said I’m not really debating here.

Yeah, I kinda consider science-based prep (like what Reed would do) and tactics-based prep (like what Captain America would do) as two completely separate things, just to make it simpler to analyze. I've noticed that when people talk about prep they usually mean the former, so that's what I had in mind as well. If we were discussing the latter, then Black Panther has a lot of impressive feats there that we can include as well. The way he beat Mephisto was super cool, for example.

I'm not sure how good Batman's tactics are, but the main reason I don't like debating when using tactics in mind is because the tactical feats are usually good for specific situations and it's hard to know how they could apply in the battle scenario. I find that it ends up being more like fan-fiction where you make up your own strategies of how they could win because we don't know whether the character themselves would come up with such a strategy or use it even if they did come up with it. I find some people do that with prep (ie. science/tech) feats as well ("Batman/Doom/whoever stomps with prep by countering this weakness" despite not having any feats doing that before) but at least if you stick to the feats they already have then you can have a good debate there. With tactics it's impossible to fairly compare, at least for me.

@blackspidey2099: I see.Well like I said I don’t plan to debate, I just wanted to know why you considered him unimpressive and it seems it’s because he doesn’t always use a lot of op technology. Okay.

@darthjhawk: No no no, I don't consider him unimpressive at all. I just don't think he is as impressive as Batman in terms of science/tech based prepping. He may be more impressive in terms of strategic planning, but IDK enough to say in that aspect, and I never consider it when I think about battles unless someone else made a really good argument about it.

Also, is there a reason why you are abstaining from debating in this battle? AFAIK, you know a lot about all the characters involved.

So? The OP doesn't say anything against that. All it says is "2 weeks prep".......which is quite ambiguous with zero parameters set on what that could constitute. Not like Panther would really need it regardless......it was just a thought.

@cosmicallyaware1: It’s just the vast majority of the time, people don’t allow outside help since then its not Batman Vs. Black Panther. Now it’s Batman And Lex Vs. BP And Reed. Might as well change it to “greatest DC Preppers Vs. greatest Marvel preppers”

I get what you are saying. It's all open to interpretation I guess.

@causeimbatman:

Batman And Lex Vs. BP And Reed.

This is actually a prep battle I would like to see. Perhaps shall make a thread about it, or if you would care to? Or a 3 way....Bruce/Lex/*one other* (perhaps Michael Holt? John Henry Irons? Ray Palmer?) VS Tony Stark/BP/Reed Prep battle. ooohhhhhh the debating that would happen in that thread!!!! :)

marvel team wins both rounds

i don't see the difference between black panther and batman when it comes to prep but black panther has a suit that is virtually indestructible, whereas batman does not.

1. Marvel
2. Debatable

Marvel wins

@stalin-is-steel: yes

@mohdali2805: In that case Bats stomps the other team hard with that amount of prep and full knowledge.

A weaker form of himself feat wise (52 bats) was able to prepare and deal with a bloodlusted Justice League and one shot a good amount of them with crazy plans.

@stalin-is-steel: really? I started reading comics like quite recently (rebirth) where Bruce is a chump I knew he was powerful but damn

It was Scott Snyder's Batman I believe, Endgame was the book it happened in. He had armour, but was facing dudes like Flash and Wonder Woman who could rip through it very easy.

To be fair, that was PIS/WIS. Most of the plans were utterly stupid and shouldn't have worked. Flash alone could have speedblitzed and one-shotted him in an attosecond or whatever.