Back in Black Spider-Man vs Wolverine (Read OP)

Back in Black Spider-Man

Wolverine

Rules

Win By Death/K.O/Surrender.

Morals are off.

Spider-Man is version post attempted assasination of himself (and friendly fire of his aunt), but Pre OMD/BND.

Wolverine has his healing Factor.

Peter has NO WEBBING.

Start 50 Feet away visible.

Arena

Who wins and why?

@super_soldierxii@strider92@god_spawn@jashro44@shawnbaby@wolverine08 thoughts?

Bloodlust Spidey should win

@laflux:

Did this version of Spider-Man have his Way of the Spider training?

Peter

I would back Wolverine for the majority in this situation due to several factors the OP sets in place. For one, I believe Spider-Man has lost one of the his biggest advantages he had over Wolverine in a fight in that he cannot use his webbing. In regular battle against Logan, Spider-Man would utilize his top tier avoidance, webbing, and superior physicals to incapacitate Logan by probably through smothering him in webbing until he lost consciousness for the technical knock out. Spider-Man being bloodlusted is also something that sets him at a disadvantage here seeing as how he is sans webbing. A bloodlusted Peter has shown that he somewhat forgoes his signature avoidance and agility to just straight up brawl with his opponents. Lack of webbing will also force Peter to confront Logan up close. That would work with most other street levelers not named Wolverine. In a brutal close combat situation, Logan is holding several advantages over Peter. He has shown on multiple occasions that he can soak any blunt force trauma that Spidey cab throw out via his adamantium skeleton and healing factor, and Spider-Man will be in no way soaking six adamantium claws that are thrown in any part of his anatomy. Spider-Man will be a bit faster than usual due to him letting loose/the physical advantage he got upgraded with during this time period , but Wolverine's top tier skill martial art skill has shown to be able to let him hang with Spider-Man combat speed wise, and I do not see that changing here. Spider-Man's mindset and the OP do force him to take this battle into Wolverine's preferred modus operandi. Peter does have stingers to put Wolverine down via heart damage (If he uses it right) and an increased Spider Sense for an advantage though.

Overall, I go with Wolverine for a 6/10 majority . Very close fight I might add.

lol wat is dis

Spider-Man stomps

No, but he had Kaine-level physicals (as they were augmented by the same entity), combined with a Spider-Sense which was alot more heightened than it was beforehand. Like Kaine, he also had Stingers, which he learnt to consciencely control around that time.

The idea of this battle came from @super_soldierxii's assesment that in a H2H brawl only, Kaine should lose around 6/10 with wolverine, something which seems reasonable. I thought that replacing Kaine, with someone who has exactly the same physicals as he does, much more experience in working and fighting Wolverine, as well as a Spider-Sense to aid in aviodence, brings a H2H match closer even still.

Wolverine can of course take Peter out with his claws, and one good connect can cut the battle off, but Peter can win too with repeated shots to lethal regions with stingers (which he was willing to use, even Morals on). Wolverine has the greater capacity to tank Peter's assualt, but with Peter's stat upgrade, combined with the Heightened Spider-Sense, Wolverine is going to get the oppurtunity to land less shots. And if we want to extrapolate Kaine's feats onto Back in Black Peter, he was impaled by Carnage's tendrils and shrugged it off, so I do feel Peter has a limited ability to tank non-lethal shots.

That's all I will say on the matter. If the thread ends up like any other Spider-Man vs Wolverine threads, at least I got a good fireworks display to watch.

You've pretty much covered all of the bases of what I was thinking for this fight (not the first time you've done that, I might add)

Aw shucks, thanks. I actually edited my post a bit. Go quote that one :D

I'd be down with that :D

He's Morals off....Not Bloodlusted. He'll still be thinking clearly..he just won't be holding back.

Oh, sorry, I didn't mean in my post that Peter will not be thinking clearly and will be going "RAGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGH" throughout the fight, I just think he will be more inclined to try get into a close quarters/brawling fight with Wolverine which I think works to Logan's advantage.

I still think Peter has the capacity to fight tactically while his Morals are laxed. He Blitzed the entire Kraven Family without mercy and was going to kill Kraven, until he was convinced to otherwise by Julia. Likewise, he beat Kingpin to an absolute pulp towards the end of Back in Black, but didn't kill him- as he wanted to humiliate him in front of the criminal community. If he was Bloodlusted, he would have one shot killed him, in fact that's what happened in a What-If side track, where Mary Jane was shot instead of Aunt May.

100% agreed, and again, I did not at all mean in my post that Peter would be more inclined to fight less tactically with his morals off, I just think he would engage Wolverine in a close quarters style more often than he usually would.

@wolverine08: Oh that's fine then, he would have to in this fight anyways as he has no Webbing :P

Another reason I think he would fight Wolverine in a more close quarters style.

@laflux:

You're going to force me to debate, yet another, Spider-Man versus Wolverine battle. Why I ought to ...

Fine.

Prove it.

Spider-Man collides Wolverine's skull with 30 tons of force at the speed of machine gun fire until his brain turns to mush.

@wolverine08: Well, without webbing he pretty much has to get in close anyway. But he doesn't have to fight wildly. He can still use his speed, strength, and powers to his advantage. He hasn't forgotten about the 6, foot-long, unbreakable claws Wolverine has. Wolverine has been able to keep up with Spider-Man in the past...but he never fought Peter with The Other abilities. He's Stronger and faster, with a Stronger Spider-Sense. And in all the fights he's had with Spider-Man...Peter has always had his morals.

Wolverine has what it takes to end the fight in a single hit...but thanks to the Talons from the Other...so does Peter. One shot to the heart or brain...and Logan's out.

I agree with your assessment of it being a close fight. I just think Peter ends up taking the small majority.

@shawnbaby:

Thanks. I just think this one of the specialized situations in which Wolverine can take a slim majority over Ole' Webhead. Very close fight indeed. I do think morals being off those work to advantage in both ways though seeing as how Peter has never fought a Wolverine who was seriously intent on leaving him six feet underground at the end of the battle.

True...But Spidey has seen what a morals off Wolverine looks like...even if he hasn't been the one on the other end of the claws. Logan hasn't even seen a Morals off Peter.

You mean like this?

Read: "I'm hitting him hard enough to wreck cars" and "I can't get him to stop smiling". So no, sorry. Indestructible adamantium absorbing and redistributing the impact shock plus the healing factor will soak far more of Parker's blows than vice versa and means Parker should probably break his hand more than anything else in the attempt. Don't take my word for it, just ask Kaine';

"I almost break my hand". So no dice. And don't try to pretend Parker was somehow pulling his punches in the graveyard scene. He was fighting to save a life, and was willing to resort to killing. He was holding nothing back.

Took WWHulk seven consecutive point blank shots to accomplish that much. And Wolverine was back on his feet a few panels later. Needless to say, WWHulk's strength is far, far (far, far, far) greater than Parker's.

I'd like to see a scan that highlights Parker throwing punches faster than automatic gunfire please and thank you.

And while Parker's oh so effortlessly unloading on Wolverine, what's Wolverine going to do, let him? He'll put himself into range of his claws, and let's not even attempt the argument and Wolverine can't hit Parker. He's done so plenty of times.

Think you're out of touch with the reality of how close a fight is between these two. Really out of touch.

Spidey has received two strength upgrades since then and he's bloodlusted. Your logic that him fighting to save a life means he isn't holding back doesn't make any sense. How many times has he fought supervillains to save lives? Basically every fight he's ever had. And he's never ripped someone's head off when he easily could have.

I'd like to see a scan that highlights Parker throwing punches faster than automatic gunfire please and thank you.

I said at the speed of automatic fire.

Bump.

I'm gonna hate myself if I let myself get dragged into this, but I'm gonna say Spider-man.

We've seen, as of recently, that Spider-man can K.O. Wolverine, however briefly, with his base 10 ton stats, so he should be capable of doing so if he's at double that.

If Spider-man comes at him as fast and as hard as he can from the get go, which he usually does when morals off, then he should take it for a slim majority.

Spider-man 6/10.

Kaine also has the strength of the other and he almost broke his hand as @super_soldierxii showed. As far as the grave yard fight Peter stated he hit wolverine with everything he had.

Your point about spider-man being stronger since then is valid but there is still the whole thing with Kaine.

I think if Peter uses the environment or uses his stingers properly (basically do what Kaine did) he takes the majority.

@jashro44: Ya know, for the life of me I can't find anything in the scan saying the punch was ineffective.

this is a close one but im going to go with wolfy here.

with webbing spiderman owns.

Which punch are you talking about Kaines or Peters?

Its quite clearly stated in the top panel of the scan I uploaded "I've given him everything i've got. He just keeps coming." Peter was considering snapping wolverines neck in order to stop him.

If your referring to the kaine fight there is the fact that kaine nearly broke his hand after one punch (according to kaine). I kind of doubt Kaine could keep unleashing a barrage of hay makers if he nearly broke his hand after the first punch. That would imply that kaine is hitting almost as hard as he could.

Spider-man (Peter) has never had any difficulties unloading on Wolverine. Kaine may have, but Peter was capable of unloading before his upgrade. Don't know why we'd attribute Kaine's problem with it to Peter.

And a Spider-man with lower stats was capable of briefly K.O.-ing Wolverine. So we have 1 showing where he couldn't and 1 newer showing where he could. Which takes precedence? Do they cancel each other out?

Because Kaine is even physically stronger than Peter.

Ok? And Peter has not shown physical pain a single time he's struck Wolverine, AFAIK.

Peter has unloaded on Wolverine more than once and hasn't hurt his hands.

Kaine has. Peter hasn't. So Peter wouldn't be hurting his hands on Wolverine's skeleton.

@wolverine08: Do you have any Wolverine reflexes scans my good sir? Could he land a hit on Spidey if he just kept dodging? Thx in advance

People are just using that example to show that someone who is even a bit stronger than Peter is having problems putting Wolverine down. He isn't going to break his hand, but using blunt force trauma isn't really the best way to go here if Peter wants to win. He would have to go for stabbing damage via his stingers he got during this time.

In the fight posted above, Wolverine was able to tag Peter multiple times. He's even given Peter's physically superior clone Kaine trouble with his speed. Peter is faster than Wolverine still, but he can keep up with Parker combat speed wise.

But a weaker Peter, or Otto in Peter's body, was able to K.O. Wolverine. I feel as if that's kind of relevant to this discussion.

Christopher Yost has somewhat of an inconsistent nature portraying Wolverine's durability, and he was only unconscious for a few seconds (Added in with that he was holding back tentatively before the incident). I don't think blunt force trauma is something that will completely useless against Wolverine in this fight, but it shouldn't be Parker's main way of trying to win.

Unconscious=Lost fight, and I doubt he held back his durability.

And why so? So far, Peter, or Peter's 10 tonner body, has managed to K.O. Wolverine just as many times as he's failed to, at least in real, protracted battles.

@vegandiet:

No, Wolverine has been able to soak most of Parker's blunt force trauma in their encounters that I have read. Peter usually outperforms Wolverine by relying on his avoidance and webbing for the win.

I'm fairly certain that the two have only had two "real" battles. They've had various scuffles, but those all ended fairly quickly with no indication of Peter going all out. Hell, I think he's only ever actually punched Wolverine in one other scuffle besides the graveyard fight and the Yost fight.

So a weaker than the OP version, going all out Spider-man has succeeded just as often as he's failed against Wolverine, AFAIK.

True.

As for the fight in avenging spider-man 16 it was written by Yost who also wrote the fight with Kaine (who is physically stronger and probably more durable then Peter). So the 2 showings do contradict. Hard to tell what Yost really believes is a representation of a wolverine and spider-man fight.

All though it has been speculated that Otto knocked wolverine out by crushing his throat as opposed to the blunt trauma. Logan has a few good showings of regenerating his throat but I have also seen some not so good ones as well. The good showings seem to be more consistent, then again I don't think his throat has ever been crushed by someone as strong as spider-man. So it could be because Otto crushed his throat.

I don't necessarily believe that one feat should be contributed to the other. Peter has consistently hit Wolverine without harming himself, I don't see why Kaine doing it once would discount those showings.

A possible interpretation. It's not one I share, personally, but it's certainly defensible. I just find it a little odd that one showing of Peter vs. Wolverine is given so much more weight than the other.

If this fight were to happen a year, or so, ago, I'd definitely give it to Wolverine. But the recent Avenging Spider-man fight leads me to believe that Spidey could definitely K.O. Wolverine, at least long enough to be given the victory here.

This is about as good an assessment as I was going to make. People always seem to mix up "morals off" and "bloodlust". Peter knows exactly what Wolverine can do, and is likely to do. Wolverine has never seen a willing-to-kill Peter Parker who's not holding back. It's still close, and the majority is slim, but Spider-Man wins the day.

Cool. I respect that, I just feel this a situation where Logan drop Pete for a slim majority due the things I stated in my analysis.

@wolverine08:

It's a fair analysis, but this is just one of those times where different perceptions, knowledge, and potential biases can come into play. Not hating.

@granitesoldier:

I got to love that pic man!