Azula Vs. Phoniex King Ozai

@anthp2000: I just haven't seen Azula do anything on Ozai's level comet enhanced.

If we're going by "facts", then Ozai, he's just too powerful even without Sozin's. He was portrayed as more powerful. I think Zuko might have a better chance than Azula than beating Ozai because he can redirect lightning.

@rijehu: Raw power and fire jets were roughly around his level How will he counter redirection and instant lightning?

@llehdevil: Azula can redirect lightning and has instant lightning as well as jet propulsion around his level. OP States comic feats allowed.

@anthp2000: I mostly consider them as two different versions. Considering when the OP was made, I assumed TLA TV Azula.

@llehdevil: The OP was made yesterday xD

It says all feats from the comics apply.

@anthp2000: Sorry, I mean the pic of the thread is TV Azula (with her insane Azula comic feats). Get what I'm saying?

@anthp2000: You do realize that he could just not shoot lightning at Azula if he realizes she can redirect it right? Also, lightning can and has been evaded several times by benders less capable than Ozai. Katara with limited water dodged Azula's SC enhanced lightning and evaded her the entire battle during the Agni Kai. Even instant lightning (which we saw in Korra) can be evaded by benders with less mobility than Ozai. Instant lighting nor redirection isn't a guaranteed win and with the power I've seen Ozai unleash during the comet, I don't see Azula countering that for too long.

@rijehu:

1. He failed to react to it twice.

2. Who says Katara is less capable than Ozai?

3. His raw power was hardly any better than hers.

4. And Azula can spam instant lightning while he lacks his best weapon here.

@llehdevil: The search? But Azula from the search is after Book 3 Azula. She gets her feats from S&S as well.

@anthp2000:

1. So does that make him incapable? First time he was caught off guard by Zuko and probably didn't know Zuko was capable. Second time he didn't expect Aang to know the technique and was shocked (see what I did there)?

2. Good question. Because I certainly didn't. My comment was in regards to the fact that Katara was less mobile than Ozai, and was still capable of dodging close ranged lightning attacks, meaning it is very possible that Ozai can do the same.

3. "Hardly", but better was it not?

4. Spamming lightning did nothing for her the first time around against someone with less of her element at her disposal and as I stated, it isn't a sure win. Even then, Ozai can also spam massive aoe Fire balls and blasts continuous streams of fire at Azula like he did to Aang and when he roasted the planet. And while he may not be able to shoot instant lightning, he certainly did spam it when charged it as he launched several bolts at Aang in a span of mere seconds, while keeping his mobility. Azula isn't untouchable here man and insta lightning just isn't cutting it for me with what we've seen.

@rijehu:

1. And how does he know Azula has a the technique? The only reason I'm disscusing this battle is because I assume Ozai has previous knowledge. Otherwise, he is murdered. Anyways, those are two consistent low showings for Ozai's reflexes that work against him. I can fairly assume his daughter's reaction time is superior.

2. That, I agree on. However, instant lightning spam, which isn't what Katara was dodging, would be hell. Its faster than anything he faced. And I'm including AS attacks on that. Keep in mind that before Azula, no one had nstabt lightning in the time of ATLA.

3. Yeah, but it doesn't make much of a difference, especially when she and Zuko also had a raw power boost in the comics.

4. What she was doing with Katara was not INSTANT lightning. Plus, she was fatiqued and insane.

That Azula can counter with her own AoE and continuous steams of fire.

If he tries to spam giant lightning, he dies because she is quicker to the draw. If he tries to spam weaker lightning, he dies because she can redirect. And regardless she is mobile with jet propulsion and physically agile enough to Dodge.

Plus, unlike Ozai, she showed the ability to charge and shoot lightning (instant too) mid air, whereas he had to land each time to charge. And it will also be hard to dodge her AoE lightning. Something she also did in S&S.

@anthp2000: Fair points. Feats above hype, Azula 6/10.

By feats, Azula wins handily. However, by statements, in-verse position, hype, and some of his Sozin's Comet feats, he's well above her in pure fire. I think he wins if he doesn't go for lightning (which considering he's nearly died to redirection twice, he'd have to be even less intelligent than I think he is to try). However, based on his character and tactics (SPAM ALLLLLL THE LIGHTNING!!!!!) I could see Azula just redirecting his own lightning back at him for a win. Considering his durability, he can probably straight up no-sell Azula's instant lightning, her other main advantage.

Azula by feats

Ozai.

Azula loses horribly without comic feats. Could win through redirection with.

Ozai would wreck her in-universe.

Only way Azula wins is if she redirects lightning. Assuming he is not given knowledge of this, she can win this way. Other than that, Ozai murderstomps her. It's even been stated by the show makers that Ozai was the most powerful firebender so there is literally no arguing that. Although I will say, if this could be Azula by the time she is Ozai's age, I'm 100% sure she would beat him.

@anthp2000: I think you need to watch Ozai and Azula during the comet again. First, their raw power is not the same, looking at their respective fights, Ozai is flat out better. Jet propulsion equal? I have to disagree again. Ozai was legit flying for an extended amount of time ( which we honestly have not seen from any character, even AS Korra in her fight with Zaheer).

I take it like this: Since Ozai was more powerful under the comet ( you really can't say otherwise, he was solidly beating AoE Aang), he is logically more powerful without it. Yes Azula has gotten better, but like Arcus said, lightning redirection doesn't guarantee a win ( seeing as Ozai really does have incredible speed and better durability). If so, I ask you, why didn't Iroh be more confident in his ability to beat his brother? I have not decided who takes the majority with the comic feats, but Ozai I feel is being downplayed and Azula is not being looked at correctly. Purely my opinion

Based on which actual feats plz?

On topic:

Sane Eos:

By actual unamped feats, Azula stomps.

By hype, Ozai wins.

Kemurikage Azula:

Azula always wrecks, regardless of hype.

By hype/narrative wise, Ozai win. By feats Azula wins, but loses under Sozin's comet.

@onsipin:

Other than that, Ozai murderstomps her.

Not even in his wildest dreams, that's the same guy who failed to break a simple earth shield of Aang for a good amount of time(by literally being too stupid to just use an explosive blast until later on).

It's even been stated by the show makers that Ozai was the most powerful firebender so there is literally no arguing that.

That was in comparison to the just 14 years old B3 Azula, not the around 18 years old and significantly improved Kemurikage Azula.

Although I will say, if this could be Azula by the time she is Ozai's age, I'm 100% sure she would beat him.

Kemurikage Azula has already faster lightning, more lightning versatility, redirection, the already huge gap in firebending versatility(hell Ozai has not even actual defenses) became even bigger and even her physicals arefor the most parts better. It was always clear that Azula(and probably even Zuko to a lesser degree) has far more talent than Ozai(not such a big surprise, considering that the Royal siblings are quite literally a genetical experiment of Azulon) and Kemurikage Azula showed that already to a good degree.

Hype - Ozai Stomps

Non Comet Feats - Azula

Comet Feats - Ozai Stomps

Current Azula murders the overrated wannabe Phoenix King.

How?

His hype was only vaguely the strongest pre-comics and Azula could very easily kill him with his own lightning or with her instant lightning during Sozin's Comet..

The Fatherlord dies.

I actually got the impression that Ozai was below Iroh, Zuko, and Azula by EOS and that he was only the biggest threat because he was willing to straight out kill.

He never shows half the skill of either of his children

Azula handily with comics feats.

I'm not sure what's vague about him being the Avatar's biggest threat.

He only used lightning on Aang when he proved too nimble after an enormous onslaught of attacks, Azula would hardly fare any better given the vast difference in their comet performances.

Who has her instant lightning actually even hit? A surprised Zuko perhaps but even Katara could dodge multiple shots from her comet lightning with zero enhancements. Ozai dodged a flurry of Avatar State attacks from Aang in comparison and Azula's instant lightning has no feats in comparison.

Azula kills her dad.

@tektonic:

I'm not sure what's vague about him being the Avatar's biggest threat.

I'm not sure what's not vague about that, especially because the biggest threat about Ozai was his political position.

What does it even mean, would Ozai stomp King Bumi without Sozin's Comet and why was Jeong Jeong more impressive with Sozin's Comet then?

He only used lightning on Aang when he proved too nimble after an enormous onslaught of attacks

Azula is way more nimble than Ozai by feats.

Azula would hardly fare any better given the vast difference in their comet performances.

How did you miss the context that Azula was a drastically worse fighter due to her insanity and the fact that comic Azula isn't the same as insane book 3 Azula? And why should i just ignore how much more skilled and versatile Aula is by feats, even including Ozai's Sozin's Comet performance.

Who has her instant lightning actually even hit?

What amazing reaction feats of Ozai did i miss and why did he failed to dodge a simple redirection from Zuko and almost from Aang too?

A surprised Zuko perhaps but even Katara could dodge multiple shots from her comet lightning with zero enhancements.

What is this bullshit comparison even?

Katara just dodged extremely telegraphed and unprecise charged lightning strikes from insane Azula and could you please show me Ozai's amazing dodging feats now?

Ozai dodged a flurry of Avatar State attacks from Aang in comparison and Azula's instant lightning has no feats in comparison.

Ozai was fleeing as fast as he could and was about to fail another redirection shortly before that, Azula's lightning is instantous which makes it obviously faster and less telegraphed than Ozai's fast charged lightning.

Ozai is just drastically overrated and even his strongest Firebender statement lost its meaning right after the end of the series, his fight with Aang is mostly a testament of a Berserker who can make big flames and has nice mobility, but lacks defenses, precision, speed besides jetting speed, versatility and even skill.

Ozai beats her in season 3 after a good fight.

Current Azula beats him without much effort.

Ah this old chestnut. Ozai is clearly more powerful and his lightning is far superior, but Azula has a versatility/skill edge by virtue of far more feats and she is much more agile and faster.

Comic Azula most likely wins via redirection and show Azula probably loses.

Ozai curbstomps.

Ozai >= Iroh by several statements within the show and only Iroh and an AS Aang could overpower him. Azula is not on that level.

You mean the same Iroh who got one shotted by Azula as he was slightly distracted and has barely any good feats and the same Ozai who got curbstomped by Aang in the Avatar State?

Ozai failed even 2 times against lightning redirection and now guess who is the newest user of that ability, a little hint her name starts and ends with A.

So stop wanking Ozai and bring reasonable arguments.

Honestly, we can go back and forth as much as we want, doesn't change what the word of god said. And this isn't like DC or Marvel comics where there are hundreds of different writers or inconsistencies. Avatar is an incredibly consistent series, if the authors themselves said Ozai is the best, then Ozai is the best. Simple as that.

I think that as well, Azula kind of surpassed Ozai in the comics.

Oh i thought this was about comic Azula and not just from the show?

@morbusgrav: Iroh would still smash Azula and that's a clear as day fact. Only firebender that could contend with Iroh was Ozai and that was stated in the show. Getting beat up by the strongest dude in the verse is a low showing? The fact he made go AS and still put a decent effort is a good showing.

And neither times was it stated it was going to kill him. Severely damage sure but kill is something else.

Not wanking the dude who is stated by the author to be the strongest firebender. If anything you guys are wanking Azula who was never that good as the pedestal you're placing her on.

The comics don't provide anything that override Azula's position of ability compared to Ozai.

@jdogg:

Iroh would still smash Azula and that's a clear as day fact

Based on what except wank?

His feats are terrible and his hype comes mostly from his biggest fanboy.

only firebender that could contend with Iroh was Ozai and that was stated in the show.

So you first claim Ozai is impressive cause he is stronger than Iroh and now is Iroh impressive because he can contend with Ozai?

You love circular logic huh?

Getting beat up by the strongest dude in the verse is a low showing?

It's no showing at all to get curbstomped, or else could we go full re...d and say Azula killed the strongest dude in the verse until he got reanimated by Katara.

The fact he made go AS and still put a decent effort is a good showing.

Aang's Avatar state got unlocked again through luck and Ozai got effortlesly curbstomped.

And neither times was it stated it was going to kill him. Severely damage sure but kill is something else.

So Ozai's lightning is weaker than Azula's, even so much weaker that it's with Sozin's Comet amp still not deadly?

Not wanking the dude who is stated by the author to be the strongest firebender.

As Azula was younger and weaker and had already better feats in the most categories.

If anything you guys are wanking Azula who was never that good as the pedestal you're placing her on.

Azula has the feats to back it up in contrary to Iroh with his unproven hype.

@morbusgrav: His feats are terrible... Breaks out of prison with zero bending, is the only that can fight Ozai besides Aang, and is the strongest out of the White Lotus. Oh and literally vaped through Ba Sing Se's wall with his fire bending which is the best fire bending feat in the show.

His hype comes from actual statements made by credible characters.

Are you okay in the head? Since when does contending mean winning? He is literally the only one who could beat Iroh besides Aang. Also when did I say Ozai was going to beat Iroh 10/10. Learn to read buddy bcs I said Ozai is greater than or equal to Iroh.

Not a showing to dodge the fastest and strongest character in the verse? Lol pls show me Azula having anywhere near that speed. Azula backstabbed Aang as he was entering the state so no. The fact you have to bring up that is already proof enough that Azula is nowhere near Ozai. Oh and Aang would've lost without AS which he wouldn't even need for Azula.

Aang had to go into that state because Ozai was straight dominating him throughout the fight.

Ozai who is far more fit and can take more damage so he can take a hit from his own attack equates to Azula's lightning being better?

Azula who was never stated to be the top bender in her own category ever.

Iroh literally has the best fire feat in both continuities of the show but Azula is somehow strong...okay.

@jdogg:

His feats are terrible... Breaks out of prison with zero bending

Utterly useless in a real fight with a bender.

is the only that can fight Ozai besides Aang

Zero feats to back it up and Iroh himself didn't even agree with Zuko's fanboying.

used to beat Dragons

A younger Iroh has beaten nigh featless dragons somewhere in the past by unknown means, that's obviously no hepful feat at all.

and is the strongest out of the White Lotus.

King Bumi is obviously stronger, Jeong Jeong has better Sozin's Comet amped feats and even Pakku has better useful feats than Iroh.

Oh and literally shred through Ban Sing Se's wall with his fire bending which is the best fire bending feat in the show.

Oh yes a Sozin's Comet feat that needed enough charging time to allow even fire mocks to kill him should he ever seriously use that in a fight.

All in all 2 nigh useless feats, amazing.........

His hype comes from actual statements made by credible characters.

Zuko his biggest fanboy and Iroh still didn't even agree.

Are you okay in the head?

Lol.

Since when does contending mean winning? He is literally the only one who could beat Iroh besides Aang.

Based on which feats?

Also when did I say Ozai was going to beat Iroh 10/10. Learn to read buddy bcs I said Ozai is greater than or equal to Iroh.

I never said anything about that, are you always just seeing what you want to see?

Not a showing to dodge the fastest and strongest character in the verse?

Ozai never actually dodged anything fast from Aang, he was just flying away and got curbstomped.

Lol pls show me Azula having anywhere near that speed.

You want me to show you Azula dodging Aang?

Now i have to ask if you are right in the head?

Azula dodged Aang even as she had no bending and dodged countless of his attacks in general without the need to flee and desperately trying to get away.

Azula backstabbed Aang as he was entering the state so no. The fact you have to bring up that is already proof enough that Azula is nowhere near Ozai.

How is Azula backstabbing Avatar State Aang and Ozai getting curbstomped by him proof for that?

And how did you again miss what i actually wrote?

Oh and Aang would've lost without AS which he wouldn't even need for Azula.

Which is surely why he always did so well against Azula without Avatar State as there was no Sozin's Comet which just amps his newest and weakest element and would give her a gigantic advantage, oh wait no he even failed gloriously as she had no bending...............

Can you do anything else but lowball Azula and wank Iroh, Ozai or Aang?

Aang had to go into that state because Ozai was straight dominating him throughout the fight.

So i actually talk with a person who obviously barely kows anything about the show, good to know.

Aang got hit in the back by a pointed rock at the same position where Azula has hit him with lightning and sealed the Avatar State, that allowed him to go into the Avatar State again for the first time after Azula killed him.

And Aang could have ended the fight already with the lightning redirection, but didn't.

Ozai who is far more fit and can take more damage so he can take a hit from his own attack equates to Azula's lightning being better?

Ozai's durability feats are barely better than Aang's and Azula's lightning was already deadly without Sozin's Comet, besides destroying cliffs and blasting big holes into gigantic earthshields.

So yeah it would equate to Azula's lightning being much better if Ozai's Sozin's Comet amped lightning couldn't even kill himself.

Azula who was never stated to be the top bender in her own category ever.

And yet has the best feats without Sozin's Comet in her own category, the best lightning feats period and was literally a genetical experiment from Azulon to create the strongest possible firebender, was called a true prodigy by Ozai himself and is to this date the only firebender able to create hotter flames in a color not even the dragons showed.

Iroh literally has the best fire feat in both continuities of the show but Azula is somehow strong...okay.

Iroh has a nigh useless Sozin Comet feat and besides that mostly even worse feats than season 2 Zuko. And Avatar State Aang's, Sozin's Comet amped Jeong Jeong's and arguably Avatar Roku's fire feats were anyways way better and actually useful.

Azula has overall the best non-Sozin Comet fire feats in both continuities of the show but is somehow not strong...okay.

@morbusgrav:

> King Bumi is stronger

Who is the leader? Who was needed to take down Ba Sing Se's wall?

> Jeong Jeong has better Sozin Comet amped feats

Take that bs somewhere else.

> Nigh feat-less without Sozin's Comet

Doesn't even grasp the fact that the Sozin's Comet boosts is the same throughout all the firebenders... let's see if you can put two and two together.

> Compares Azula's fight which was just dodging and evading an Aang who was taking it easy

Do I need to say that Aang would straight dominate Azula without Avatar State or what? His final fight literally eclipses anything she has done lol.

> Durability

Azula did that in a backstab so that doesn't even equate to Aang's normal durability. Zuko survived Azula's lightning so...

> How is that proof?

Ozai doesn't need to backstab the Avatar to beat him. She needed to backstab Aang in order to beat him. Simple really. Ozai on the other hand was able to evade him and make him use all 4 elements while in AS to win.

> Someone who hasn't watch the show

Could Aang beat Ozai without AS? Let me answer no, so he did need AS to win therefore Ozai made hi need to use it. Doesnt matter if it was triggered involuntarily as he would still need to use it to beat Ozai. Saying I don't read the show but you're trying to fight literal facts that Ozai and Iroh were renowned as the best firebenders in the show.

> Useless Sozin amped feat

Literally vaped through a wall that no firebender could scratch...okay.

> Physicals has nothing to do in a bending fight

Who got taken out by Katara with simple handcuffs?

Last bit of delusion lol.

> Compares dodging Aang to dodging AS Aang

Ozai.

The writers flat out said Ozai was the strongest firebender in the show, and it was very clear that he was intended to be more of a threat than any of the Gaang could handle alone. At the very least, arguing for Azula beating Ozai as of the end of the show is clearly contradicting what the writers stated

Comic Azula, there's more of an argument to be made there, but I don't think she improved that much. She got back to her old self, maybe even better physically, but firebending wise, the main difference would be her lightning redirection. If it comes down to a lightning battle, I can see her winning that via redirection, but otherwise, Ozai still should be on top

Comic Azula can shoot lightning instantly and redirect it... she zaps Ozai into oblivion.

Also, it's implied that she's omnipresent.