Azula (No lightning)

Void Zaheer

- Azula can only firebend
- Morals off
- Win by death or KO only
- Fight takes place where Zaheer fought Korra
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@straight-fire: pretty sure Zaheer was losing to an avatar state Korra before the mercury weakened her too much.
OT: toss up
The virgin Zaheer running from a teenage girl he's so obsessed over as a grown man that he kidnapped, chained up and tortured her with poison with help:
The chad Azula killing the Avatar with one shot before he can solo an army of Mako-tier fighters:
The GOAT Iroh blitzing Azula before she can react and no selling a direct physical hit from her before surviving an attack while off guard, right before Azula shows direct superiority over attacks from the greatest earthbender, waterbender and airbender in history with help from one of the greatest Firelords in history:
People who vote for Azula are kinda silly. What is she gonna do to him? She doesn't have enough range or scale to even bother him, she's not gonna land a hit on a target so mobile, she doesn't have lightning, and she's totally helpless in this environment as her jets will just make her an easy target if she tries to use them (and without them she's a sitting duck anyway). No matter how agile she is with her physicals, she's not Korra with jets (someone Zaheer managed to tag). There are basically no win cons for her here.
People who vote for Azula are kinda silly. What is she gonna do to him? She doesn't have enough range or scale to even bother him, she's not gonna land a hit on a target so mobile, she doesn't have lightning, and she's totally helpless in this environment as her jets will just make her an easy target if she tries to use them (and without them she's a sitting duck anyway). No matter how agile she is with her physicals, she's not Korra with jets (someone Zaheer managed to tag). There are basically no win cons for her here.
People who vote for Zaheer are even sillier.
Zaheer has had 1 fight with his flight, against poisoned Korra. The vast majority of that fight involved him evading her. The very few instances he went on the offensive involved him doing fly-by attacks on her. I think he used ranged attacks once or twice throughout that encounter.
If he gets close, like he consistently does, Azula will have zero issue tagging him. She's faster, more skilled, and more experienced. The only advantage Zaheer has is mobility. He is never going to tag her.
She isn't going to just shoot basic fire blasts as he flies around. She's going to rely on her larger scale attacks:
At best, Zaheer can avoid her attacks until he eventually gets tagged.
Zaheer fought an Avatar State Korra. He wins.
"Fought" is a loose term to use here and doesn't take the context of the fight into consideration, Zaheer did not go head to head with an Avatar state Korra, he was running away from Korra who was fighting both the poison and chasing him, only tagging her at instances where she was weakened by the posion, he did not show any power or skill that is above the level of even mid level masters talkless of high level ones like Azula. And Azula is not weakened by the posion like Korra was, his best bet is to fly away from her and hope she doesn't tag him with her Powerful AOE attacks, he's not on her level.
People who vote for Zaheer are even sillier.
While funny, not true.
Zaheer has had 1 fight with his flight, against poisoned Korra. The vast majority of that fight involved him evading her
Exactly. He evaded bloodlusted Korra in avatar state for quite a while. There's nothing Azula can do without lightning to prevent him from dodging her attacks effort free.
The very few instances he went on the offensive involved him doing fly-by attacks on her. I think he used ranged attacks once or twice throughout that encounter
Firstly, the very few instances when he went on the offensive involved him landing hits on her. Period. Secondly, his long range attacks tagged Korra moving with comparable speed to his, using jets. From pretty far away. Azula's jets are not good for evasion, and her physical agility is not enough to compete with Korra on jets. So he's tagging her. Azula, on the other hand, never even once tagged someone with that level of agility and mobility, or from that range. So she's not tagging him. The vast majority of her combat expertise lies in relatively close range fights with minimal movement from the spot. The fight on the ship against Zuko, the fight in the Chase, on the drill, against Suki, in the catacombs, on the gondola, on the airship, as well as most of her fights in the comics. Her being a more experienced bender doesn't help her as she doesn't have any experience in this kind of fights. She doesn't have enough range, agility or scale to do something to Zaheer here.
If he gets close, like he consistently does, Azula will have zero issue tagging him
He only gets close while his opponent is still recovering from a previous attack and can't attack him or defend themselves. He's not dumb like Ming to go all in and get tagged by Kya while getting up close. Which is why every time he went up close he tagged his opponent. He knows when to do it.
She's faster, more skilled, and more experienced
As was Korra.
The only advantage Zaheer has is mobility. He is never going to tag her
It's not the only advantage, and he is going to tag her as she is not Korra on jets in terms of speed and mobility.
She isn't going to just shoot basic fire blasts as he flies around. She's going to rely on her larger scale attacks
And it's going to result in nothing. Korra wasn't just throwing basic fireblasts at him either. If he can dodge chunks of mountains thrown at him he can handle Azula's scale.
At best, Zaheer can avoid her attacks until he eventually gets tagged
He's not. This sentence is more about Azula in this fight.
@byondeon: Considering that Tenzin (being one of the best benders in the show) failed to fodderize him - i don't see how your comment was supposed to make sense on any level.
@byondeon: Considering that Tenzin (being one of the best benders in the show) failed to fodderize him - i don't see how your comment was supposed to make sense on any level.
Did we watch the same fight?
Zaheer didn't manage to land a single hit on him before he got help from his team. And he got hit a lot.
@byondeon: He got hit three times and lasted for longer than any fodder character you can come up with would (or ever did). He wasn't doing well, he certainly wasn't winning, but he definitely didn't get stomped or fodderized.
People who vote for Zaheer are even sillier.
While funny, not true.
Zaheer has had 1 fight with his flight, against poisoned Korra. The vast majority of that fight involved him evading her
Exactly. He evaded bloodlusted Korra in avatar state for quite a while. There's nothing Azula can do without lightning to prevent him from dodging her attacks effort free.
The very few instances he went on the offensive involved him doing fly-by attacks on her. I think he used ranged attacks once or twice throughout that encounter
Firstly, the very few instances when he went on the offensive involved him landing hits on her. Period. Secondly, his long range attacks tagged Korra moving with comparable speed to his, using jets. From pretty far away. Azula's jets are not good for evasion, and her physical agility is not enough to compete with Korra on jets. So he's tagging her. Azula, on the other hand, never even once tagged someone with that level of agility and mobility, or from that range. So she's not tagging him. The vast majority of her combat expertise lies in relatively close range fights with minimal movement from the spot. The fight on the ship against Zuko, the fight in the Chase, on the drill, against Suki, in the catacombs, on the gondola, on the airship, as well as most of her fights in the comics. Her being a more experienced bender doesn't help her as she doesn't have any experience in this kind of fights. She doesn't have enough range, agility or scale to do something to Zaheer here.
If he gets close, like he consistently does, Azula will have zero issue tagging him
He only gets close while his opponent is still recovering from a previous attack and can't attack him or defend themselves. He's not dumb like Ming to go all in and get tagged by Kya while getting up close. Which is why every time he went up close he tagged his opponent. He knows when to do it.
She's faster, more skilled, and more experienced
As was Korra.
The only advantage Zaheer has is mobility. He is never going to tag her
It's not the only advantage, and he is going to tag her as she is not Korra on jets in terms of speed and mobility.
She isn't going to just shoot basic fire blasts as he flies around. She's going to rely on her larger scale attacks
And it's going to result in nothing. Korra wasn't just throwing basic fireblasts at him either. If he can dodge chunks of mountains thrown at him he can handle Azula's scale.
At best, Zaheer can avoid her attacks until he eventually gets tagged
He's not. This sentence is more about Azula in this fight.
1) Evading a bloodlusted AS Korra but choosing to ignore one very important detail: she was poisoned. She was by no means fighting even near her best, and she was constantly in and out of the AS. And despite evading her, he was still tagged by her several times. This was not a combat situation for the most part, it was an escape attempt mixed with waiting for the poison to stop Korra so he can land the killing blow.
2) Landing hits on her by doing a fly-by, while she was struggling with the poison. This tactic won't work on Azula, who is faster, more agile, and won't be struggling with poison at the same time. The very, very few air blasts he used....they didn't really harm her in any significant way. Zaheer seriously lacks AP.
Azula has tagged Aang on more than one occasion, as well as blitzed Iroh before he or any of Team Avatar could react.
Azula does engage in CQC, but she doesn't always do so. She fought from range against Aang on several occasions, against Katara, and against Zuko on several occasions. If we are discussing who is more likely to engage in CQC between Zaheer and Azula...it's Zaheer. Which won't work well for him, as we have seen what Azula can do in CQC without relying on firebending. Remember the Day of Black Sun, where Azula didn't have her bending and yet evaded Aang, Toph, and Sokka for an extended chase? And you think Zaheer, who is far below Aang and Toph, is going to tag her WITH her firebending?
Azula has tons of experience against Aang, a more powerful, skilled, and versatile airbender than Zaheer.
3) That's absolutely untrue. In the vast majority of his fights, Zaheer fought from up close or from a few meters away. He isn't a ranged fighter. Examples: Tonraq, Kya, Tenzin, etc.
4) For some reason, you are thinking of the Korra vs. Zaheer encounter as an actual fight. It was not. The majority of the fight involved them chasing after each other, which is not a standard fight. Zaheer was on the defensive for the most part; Korra was fully on the offensive. Throughout their entire encounter, where he had plenty of opponents to attack her from range, he only managed to land 1 fair hit on her from range, and that was after she had dodged the first two blasts. Comparing Korra from this encounter to her normal AS self is completely faulty. They just aren't comparable.
Even when Zaheer fought Kya and Tenzin, he was mostly focused on evasion/escape, and yet he still got tagged.
If Azula can contend against Aang, a significantly superior airbender than Zaheer and with an advantage in every aspect except mobility, then Azula isn't going to struggle against Zaheer. Even without lightning. The potency of her fire blasts are too much for him to handle, and she has plenty of options to tag him that don't just involve spamming basic fire blasts.
Feel free to present actual feats for your claims, and I will gladly point out how none of them are valid against Azula.
Evading a bloodlusted AS Korra but choosing to ignore one very important detail: she was poisoned. She was by no means fighting even near her best, and she was constantly in and out of the AS
No she wasn't. She couldn't cancel the avatar state because of the poison, and only quit the AS after Su extracted it from her body. You're confusing this fight with season 2 finale and Unalaq. And Korra was doing completely fine aside from specific moments when the poison started very notably affecting her. Her aim wasn't off, her power and scale didn't suffer from the poison, her mobility was better than ever.
And despite evading her, he was still tagged by her several times
Once when she distracted him with a boulder and tackled him in the air, literally physically slammed into him, which he reversed pretty quickly. And second time when Korra was throwing freezing waterblasts from so far away you can't even see her in the scene. He dodged four of the five. Neither is an option for Azula here. She can't fly and doesn't have Korra's range with her fireblasts.
This was not a combat situation for the most part, it was an escape attempt mixed with waiting for the poison to stop Korra so he can land the killing blow
He didn't try to escape, his goal was waiting until the poison kicks in. And there were exchanges of bending attacks between them, so it was a fight.
Landing hits on her by doing a fly-by, while she was struggling with the poison
She wasn't struggling with the poison. There are several specifically framed moments when this is the case. And neither of them was when he tagged her.
This tactic won't work on Azula, who is faster, more agile, and won't be struggling with poison at the same time
Azula is neither faster nor more agile than Korra. And she definitely doesn't compete with flight Zaheer in agility either.
The very, very few air blasts he used....they didn't really harm her in any significant way. Zaheer seriously lacks AP.
Azula doesn't have Korra's durability in the avatar state either. Just making her struggle to immediately get up is already a significant achievement. Not to mention that he straight up knocked her out twise in a row on Laghima's Peak. Which, considering her durability even in base, proves that his potency is just fine.
Azula has tagged Aang on more than one occasion, as well as blitzed Iroh before he or any of Team Avatar could react
It was mid book 2 sleep deprived gaang and Iroh distracted and not looking at her. And there is actual evidence that sleep deprivation nerfed them (unlike the poison, which is your assumption), in Katara losing to Mai, despite beating her earlier in Omashu under identical circumstances and also only with a pouch of water.
And Azula only ever tagged Aang by pushing through his earthbending defenses (the drill - a few weeks into learning earthbending, the catacombs - using fragile crystals as armor), and never by being faster or catching him off guard on the move, she never tagged him as a moving target actively trying to evade her attacks. Not counting her zapping him in the back while he is also a static target turned away from her and being distracted. And blasting through his earthbending defenses is not going to happen by EoS, as his defenses could withstand barrages and fire streams from comet powered Ozai, who is above Azula even in base. So just because it was Aang doesn't mean that she would be able to pull that off after his significant improvements. If you exaggerate this point to make its flaws more clear - it's like saying that season 1 episode 2 Zuko beat the avatar. Which - while technically true - is not that much of a feat in context.
Azula does engage in CQC, but she doesn't always do so
She did in the absolute majority of her fights. Trying to disregard this despite always pushing for "consistency" or lack there of in arguments is strange, mate.
She fought from range against Aang on several occasions, against Katara, and against Zuko on several occasions
Care to elaborate on which specific scenes you're talking about?
If we are discussing who is more likely to engage in CQC between Zaheer and Azula...it's Zaheer
Right... Azula, who does it in almost every fight, is less likely to get up close in a fight than Zaheer... who can fly. And this is the case because..?
Remember the Day of Black Sun, where Azula didn't have her bending and yet evaded Aang, Toph, and Sokka for an extended chase?
No, i don't. Because Toph attacked her once early on in that encounter, and Aang attacked her five times in a span of ~20 seconds. Toph spent the rest of it dealing with Dai Li (Azula failed to evade her when she was about to shank Sokka though), and Sokka was useless that entire fight and didn't attack her once. The chase was only "extended" because of the Dai Li interfering.
And you think Zaheer, who is far below Aang and Toph, is going to tag her WITH her firebending?
I mean, he tagged someone with much more speed and mobility, so... yes.
Azula has tons of experience against Aang, a more powerful, skilled, and versatile airbender than Zaheer
Who used airbending for very narrow and easy to dodge attacks, instead of spamming something like this in quick succession, tends to hold back a lot (especially during the eclipse where his goal was to capture her and question about Ozai's whereabouts), and also can't fly. Azula doesn't have experience against airbending. She has experience against Aang. Who - while a great airbender - is not that great of a fighter with it when it comes to offense in active combat scenario.
That's absolutely untrue. In the vast majority of his fights, Zaheer fought from up close or from a few meters away. He isn't a ranged fighter. Examples: Tonraq, Kya, Tenzin, etc.
Sure. The little difference between those and this fight is that it's void Zaheer. And the point stands - while flying he doesn't get up close without an advantage, doing it only when his opponent can't do anything about it.
For some reason, you are thinking of the Korra vs. Zaheer encounter as an actual fight. It was not. The majority of the fight involved them chasing after each other, which is not a standard fight. Zaheer was on the defensive for the most part; Korra was fully on the offensive. Throughout their entire encounter, where he had plenty of opponents to attack her from range, he only managed to land 1 fair hit on her from range, and that was after she had dodged the first two blasts
Even if it couldn't be "technically" categorized as a fight, it does in absolutely no way negate the feats demonstrated in it or any of the things i said. Korra was chasing him at a much higher speed and with much better mobility than Azula is capable of, barraging him with attacks that he consistently dodged. And you're purposefully misrepresenting what happened. Zaheer didn't try and fail to tag her at every opportunity he had (unlike Korra). But every time he switched to offense he tagged her, showing that he knows how to pick his moments for offense well. He was doing the same against Kya, only attacking her twise in that fight, both times landing the hit and taking her out of the fight. He was doing the same against Tonraq in the north pole. These are all "actual fights", and it only shows consistency and that it's his fighting style.
he only managed to land 1 fair hit on her from range, and that was after she had dodged the first two blasts
That's why he spammed them in quick succession. That's how Korra tagged him with a waterblast. If Aang tried to do that during the eclipse may be he would've managed to tag Azula too.
Comparing Korra from this encounter to her normal AS self is completely faulty. They just aren't comparable
All you have in defense of this idea is that she was poisoned, while providing zero evidence to it actually affecting her combat prowess outside of the moments the poison clearly hurt her to the point she failed to maintain her jets and so on. Not to mention that any version of AS Korra is still miles above Azula in most aspects.
Even when Zaheer fought Kya and Tenzin, he was mostly focused on evasion/escape, and yet he still got tagged
By your own logic the fight against Kya wasn't a fight until Zaheer stopped trying to escape and actually confronted her. Kya managed to grab him with a water arm and slam him into the ground when he was turned away from her and wasn't looking at her. He clearly wasn't trying to "escape" from Tenzin, as he had reasons to stay in the temple and keep fighting. Which he didn.
If Azula can contend against Aang, a significantly superior airbender than Zaheer and with an advantage in every aspect except mobility
Which she can't actually. Dodging a few of his small scale attacks while he's holding back doesn't prove that.
then Azula isn't going to struggle against Zaheer
She will, as she still doesn't have enough agility, mobility and range to deal with him.
The potency of her fire blasts are too much for him to handle
Which is irrelevant as he's not the "blocking" kind of guy and she's not tagging him with flight anyway.
she has plenty of options to tag him that don't just involve spamming basic fire blasts
Which are? Name ONE option she has that will make it impossible for him to dodge.
Feel free to present actual feats for your claims, and I will gladly point out how none of them are valid against Azula
Cute. I've brought up plenty of actual feats of his and you failed to debunk either of them. She's not competing even with this supposedly weakened version of Korra in mobility, power, scale, agility, durability or range. Zaheer doesn't need Azula to be poisoned here because she's basically helpless in this fight anyway.
@stratospher: You've mentioned things but haven't provided any actual feats, i.e. GIFs, videos, etc. If you can't do that, I'm not going to bother.
supposedly weakened version of Korra
That's funny. You might actually have worse takes than Byond, and that's saying something.
You've mentioned things but haven't provided any actual feats
I've mentioned plenty of actual feats that you and i both know about as we've both watched the show. Unlike you, i'm at least always specific about which exactly scenes i'm talking about. But if you want specific gifs and videos of certain moments - list them and i'll provide them, pretending you haven't seen them dozens of times already.
If you can't do that, I'm not going to bother
What a convenient excuse to quit the argument. I expected better from you.
That's funny. You might actually have worse takes than Byond, and that's saying something
Your words would've had at least some weight here if you had something actually valid to back your claims up instead of "well poison duh".
@byondeon: He got hit three times and lasted for longer than any fodder character you can come up with would (or ever did). He wasn't doing well, he certainly wasn't winning, but he definitely didn't get stomped or fodderized.
Tenzin destroyed him.
@stratospher: You've mentioned things but haven't provided any actual feats, i.e. GIFs, videos, etc. If you can't do that, I'm not going to bother.
supposedly weakened version of Korra
That's funny. You might actually have worse takes than Byond, and that's saying something.
I have far better takes than you on this show. You have better takes on certain characters and teams in comics and shows/movies, as you know that more than me.
I know more than you about ATLA and LOK.
You are correct here though. And you and me are usually in agreement on most things.
@stratospher: You've mentioned things but haven't provided any actual feats, i.e. GIFs, videos, etc. If you can't do that, I'm not going to bother.
supposedly weakened version of Korra
That's funny. You might actually have worse takes than Byond, and that's saying something.
I have far better takes than you on this show. You have better takes on certain characters and teams in comics and shows/movies, as you know that more than me.
I know more than you about ATLA and LOK.
You are correct here though. And you and me are usually in agreement on most things.
:)
@stratospher: And yet you can't provide evidence for your claims, because you know that you have no real basis for your argument and that will show if you were to provide the evidence via GIFs or videos.
Literally no one except you believes Korra was not negatively affected by the poison. Even the Redditors know that. It's laughable to think otherwise.
And yet you can't provide evidence for your claims, because you know that you have no real basis for your argument and that will show if you were to provide the evidence via GIFs or videos
Don't lie and try to weasel out of it. I've asked you directly, what do you need me to show you. Sorry for assuming you've watched the show. Which exactly feats did you forget? Zaheer knocking Korra out two times in a row on Laghima's Peak?
Literally no one except you believes Korra was not negatively affected by the poison
My god, learn to stop hiding behind this "everyone and their mom" argument, i can't care less about what you or whoever else believes, we're not in a church. Prove it. If you can't, it only once again shows how much your "everyone agrees with me" is worth. Which is to say - nothing.
Even the Redditors know that. It's laughable to think otherwise
What a powerful and convincing argument.
@straight-fire: Not because of the majority, but because he is. At least with flight.
Soooo does this mean Zaheer > Azula 'cause the majority said so?
No. A majority once thought the Earth was round, but we all know that's not true.
@straight-fire: Not because of the majority, but because he is. At least with flight.
He literally isn't. Azula would stomp his ass. Azula is comparable to Tenzin. Which we all know is far superior to Zaheer.
And post feats of Zaheer actually doing well against a person that doesn't use most of their powers to fighting off poison instead of him.
No. A majority once thought the Earth was round, but we all know that's not true.
This comparison is pretty dumb. AtlA Azula and LoK Zaheer won't change because of some revelations made after them and their feats won't go anywhere.
He literally isn't. Azula would stomp his ass. Azula is comparable to Tenzin
Even without flight he didn't get stomped fighting Tenzin. Azula is not stomping him either. Without flight he'll most likely lose. With it and Azula not having lightning makes her literally helpless against him.
And post feats of Zaheer actually doing well against a person that doesn't use most of their powers to fighting off poison instead of him
Irrelevant. That version of Korra is still miles above both Tenzin and Azula in terms of power, mobility, precision, range and durability. Tagging her is still more than enough to tag Azula. Dodging her is still more than enough to dodge Azula. No amount of excuses and attempts to make Korra seem weaker than she actually was in that fight will change that.
@byondeon: LMFAO wait wtf? You really think the earth is flat? Well that explains your horrendous takes on things
Soooo does this mean Zaheer > Azula 'cause the majority said so?
No. A majority once thought the Earth was round, but we all know that's not true.
Zaheers flight honestly is not that big of a power-up, since he can only use it to flee or evade, he still has to enter combat range to do damage of his own assuming his opponent is not poisoned. It's a amazing utility power, but only of moderate use in a fight. I would go with Azula.
Zaheers flight honestly is not that big of a power-up, since he can only use it to flee or evade, he still has to enter combat range to do damage of his own assuming his opponent is not poisoned
His effective combat range is still better than Azula's without lightning.
And it gives him enough mobility and agility to dodge an onslaught from avatar state Korra. No matter how nerfed she was, she still demonstrated greater scale, power, range and accuracy than Azula, and had better mobility, agility and durability than Azula as well. So tagging even this version of Korra is still more than enough to tag Azula, and dodging her attacks is still more than enough to dodge Azula's. Azula was never particularly good at hitting moving targets, especially that move this fast or that far away (not to mention both). Unlike Zaheer. So there's basically nothing she can do to him, even while she is still within his effective combat range.
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