Avengers (Earth's mightiest heroes) vs JLA (Animated)

@matchesmalone21 said:

Will be because the cartoon characters are based on comic book characters, including his powers??

Being based doesn't justify using anything related to the comics in a debate for them. The animated incarnations are inconsistent as is.

SO what I mean is, Thor and Hulk are slow to attack him and most of the team is composed of normal subjects, which can be defeated by Flash ..simply taking the air from them, as he did with Killer Frost (in secret society episode).

The thing is, ignoring the whole Khang crew time stop spamming while fighting the Avengers on the ship, the Flash is a character that I wouldn't find at all surprised anyone of the Avengers in a fight. He's cocky and regularly gets hit in fights regardless of how much faster he is than his opponents. Especially Ant Man / Giant Man.

No,I'm not trolling you. I act in this way, most of the time. She just does not impress me,Enchantress always need to Executor.

Executioner is muscle, that's all.

I disagreed,I do not think he can be a possible threat .. after all how he hurt or a invulnerable being?Not only the speed of Superman that is the issue, but he still has the freeze breath and heat vision

Superman wasn't invincible or invulnerable. Throughout TAS, JLA, JLU that much is obvious when he was getting knocked around like a punching bag.

@isaac_clarke said:

Being based doesn't justify using anything related to the comics in a debate for them. The animated incarnations are inconsistent as is.

May not justify, but does not mean that it can not be used

@isaac_clarke said:

Executioner is muscle, that's all.

So why she need him?? if she's powerful enough to contain Mjolnir and Thor

@isaac_clarke said:

Superman wasn't invincible or invulnerable. Throughout TAS, JLA, JLU that much is obvious when he was getting knocked around like a punching bag.

I don't say invincible or he can't feel pain,but invunerable yes..he doens't have strength enough to hurt him,you saw that he fought Darkseid and others stronger than him and not even bleed.Many did with himand at all times he came roaring back to provide a beating.And yet the question of speed,heat vision and freeze breath...if this is bloodlust,he can simply lobotomized him with heat vision.

@isaac_clarke said:

The thing is, ignoring the whole Khang crew time stop spamming while fighting the Avengers on the ship, the Flash is a character that I wouldn't find at all surprised anyone of the Avengers in a fight. He's cocky and regularly gets hit in fights regardless of how much faster he is than his opponents. Especially Ant Man / Giant Man.

Taking or not surprise many of them are unable to react, if he acts wisely,. Flash can do much more than just run ....it seems that you're underestimating a lot, huh?

@matchesmalone21 said:

May not justify, but does not mean that it can not be used

Actually it kinda does, since you know, they are different characters. Superman from the show has both Kents raising him, needs a space suit to go to space and regularly pummels Darkseid, his comic counter part, not so much.

So why she need him?? if she's powerful enough to contain Mjolnir and Thor

She doesn't, she's operated without him before. She's just bigger on manipulating everyone and having others do her dirty work. That's kinda her character.

I don't say invincible or he can't feel pain,but invunerable yes..he doens't have strength enough to hurt him,you saw that he fought Darkseid and others stronger than him and not even bleed.Many did with himand at all times he came roaring back to provide a beating.And yet the question of speed,heat vision and freeze breath...if this is bloodlust,he can simply lobotomized him with heat vision.

Wonder Woman beat him half to death in JLU. He was bleeding. JLU Superman doesn't lobotomize people, his Lord counter part did to DD, but it wasn't his first option from the get go and he's essentially a Superman that will do whatever it takes.

Taking or not surprise many of them are unable to react, if he acts wisely,. Flash can do much more than just run ....it seems that you're underestimating a lot, huh?

The Flash doesn't act wisely. He gets tagged, knocked around, etc by folks his is tremendously faster than consistently.

Ironman stomps the green lantern

Captain America stomps hawk woman

Hulk takes on the Martian Man Hunter

Thor takes on superman

Black Panther takes on batman

Flash takes on Wasp,Hawkeye,Giant Man

@isaac_clarke said:

Wonder Woman beat him half to death in JLU. He was bleeding. JLU Superman doesn't lobotomize people, his Lord counter part did to DD, but it wasn't his first option from the get go and he's essentially a Superman that will do whatever it takes

You really seen the entire JLU?? because Wonder Woman beat him in JL (Paradise Lost) and she can be considered as a magical being (Superman is weak against magic,remeber?),because of this,he bleed. Supermandid the same thing with Doomsday,but could not because he had adapted (Doomsday Sanction).

@isaac_clarke said:

The Flash doesn't act wisely. He gets tagged, knocked around, etc by folks his is tremendously faster than consistently.

That still does not indicate that it can not topple the weaker members of the team or the they can react,still underestimating....

@isaac_clarke said:

She doesn't, she's operated without him before. She's just bigger on manipulating everyone and having others do her dirty work. That's kinda her character.

that hard work, face the Hulk?thing she can do alone, but already demonstrated to be afraid of making..soo she ins't so powerful

@isaac_clarke said:

@matchesmalone21 said:

May not justify, but does not mean that it can not be used

Actually it kinda does, since you know, they are different characters. Superman from the show has both Kents raising him, needs a space suit to go to space and regularly pummels Darkseid, his comic counter part, not so much.

And if he could not used certain things that the characters do in the comics .. Batman would have powers. And how many and many times,Superman don't use the space suitto travel into space,as the time he went to Apokolips, New Genese, Ajuris 4 or OA,It was sheer inconsistency of the writers.You want me to say the name of the respective episodes,when he travel without the suit??

probably the JLA team

The big ones the Avengers have to take out are Superman and J'onn J'onzz. The big ones the League has to take out are Hulk and Thor. Thor could probably take out Supes, but J'onzz would be able to take out Hulk during that time. Cap could probably take out Bats, and Hawkeye could take out Hawkgirl while she if fighting wasp. GL attacks Thor from behind while Thor is fighting J'onzz, but Hank shrinks down and gets John's ring off. Iron Man then takes him out, but Thor is taken out by J'onzz. Flash could take out Hawkeye, until Panther got him. Wonder Woman could take out Wasp and Panther, but is taken down by Iron Man. While Flash is fighting Giant Man, he takes out Cap, but Iron Man takes Flash out. J'onzz then is able to take down Hank and Iron Man.

Winners: Justice League.

@isaac_clarke: Really? That's your argument? You lowball the characters and take their worst feats from the show to try to make any of the Avengers look powerful? Alright, let's play it your way. Thor, like Superman, holds back, even if not as much. He's been ridiculed by the Masters of Evil, in such case he should've been able to one-shot each one of them when they ambushed him. Hulk was almost KO'ed by Ross' Hulkbusters and one-shotted by Kang when assaulting his mothership. Obviously, that isn't a consistant showing, but it's called low-balling, similar to what you tried to prove with Superman and Flash.

On the other hand, the only beings that have every truly been able to hurt Superman in the JLA show have been Doomsday and Darkseid. Other from that, he's never taken more than a scratch and made short work of Grundy, Aquaman, and tanked hits from Diana even after he refused to fight. It was perfectly clear how outmatched he was when fighting Brainseid until he truly cut loose and absolutely demolished him. I don't see what's stopping him from doing the same to Thor or Hulk who are both too slow and have never been hit like that in EMH. Regardless of whether Flash speed-blitzes or not, he has the ability to and if Superman isn't enough, Diana, Stewart, J'onn and Hawkgirl to back them up. It's not as if any of the other Avengers really pose a threat.

So .... this is Hulk and Thor vs Superman, Wonder Woman, Martian Manhunter, Flash, and Green Lantern

(since the other avengers are non factors)

yeah ... I wonder who wins this time *rollseyes* .....

@comicdude23 said:

JLA ftw. They have more Powerhouses, and better feats.

JLA wins. To much power and speed for the EMH.

enough has been said.....it is finished.

justice league.

@Deranged Midget said:

@isaac_clarke: Really? That's your argument? You lowball the characters and take their worst feats from the show to try to make any of the Avengers look powerful?

The thing here, that I find hilarious, I'm doing that at all. Feel free to point out what these abysmal "low-showings" I pulled, because from my perspective that was their regular routine, Superman himself has power levels depicted all over the place, from struggling to catch a crane to holding a cargo ship. I'm not using the crane to bench mark his power, or that comet about the size of my house he couldn't stop, no I'm going for what was perceived his BEST showing of strength and comparing it to Thor's best. Superman comes out short all on his lonesome.

Alright, let's play it your way. Thor, like Superman, holds back, even if not as much. He's been ridiculed by the Masters of Evil, in such case he should've been able to one-shot each one of them when they ambushed him.

Ridiculed by who now? 8:30:

You had the Abomination and Executioner hold him down after the Enchantress disarmed him, prior he was knocking them all on their rears in single strikes. I don't think it's much of a low showing for about characters arguably in his strength range, to have two of them hold him down as the other blasts him into submission. The was a reason why he's being bound to the table via those magic restrains rendered completely immobile and why he was targets last.

Hulk was almost KO'ed by Ross' Hulkbusters and one-shotted by Kang when assaulting his mothership.

"Almost KOed" I assume means he wasn't KOed. If I recall, the Hulk tanked more than just one shot from people on Kang's ship, but given the previous outing where the Hulk tore through Kang's shields in their first encounter I'd imagine Kang prepped something to avoid similar happenings. At the end of the day getting blasted by a lazer beam from tech completely out of this world isn't much of a low showing for the Hulk anyhow.

Obviously, that isn't a consistant showing, but it's called low-balling, similar to what you tried to prove with Superman and Flash.

I didn't low ball either one of them.

On the other hand, the only beings that have every truly been able to hurt Superman in the JLA show have been Doomsday and Darkseid.

Wonder Woman beat him half to death when they were enchanted to see each other as monsters. But the thing is, that isn't the only thing that comes to mind. Dozens of characters where able to hurt Superman in the series, some really kicked his rear. It wasn't just Doomsday or Darkseid, that's horribly selective memory. If anything he's kicked Darkseid's rear much worse despite whatever power-ups Darkseid had.

Though you also have to point out, neither Darkseid or Doomsday are even as powerful as Thor or Hulk, but something tells me you're not going to enjoy that line.

Other from that, he's never taken more than a scratch and made short work of Grundy, Aquaman, and tanked hits from Diana even after he refused to fight.

He couldn't even independently stand after Wonder Woman was done with him so I don't have a clue why you think that was a good showing. She was besting him before he even realized she was enchanted.

It was perfectly clear how outmatched he was when fighting Brainseid until he truly cut loose and absolutely demolished him.

The problem the whole "demolishing" of Darkseid consisted of him hitting Darkseid through a few buildings and then getting a net tossed on him. If I recall he was going to cut Clark's heart out. That's not a good showing for him.

I don't see what's stopping him from doing the same to Thor or Hulk who are both too slow and have never been hit like that in EMH.

Did you gloss over the entirety of the Graviton fight? The Hulk was knocking Graviton across the city and Thor a portion of the city, while also knocking Graviton through it. They both hit WAY harder than Superman does, getting knocked through walls or if were using that last fight with Darkseid, throwing the daily planet ball through the building on him was giving Clark trouble.

Regardless of whether Flash speed-blitzes or not, he has the ability to and if Superman isn't enough, Diana, Stewart, J'onn and Hawkgirl to back them up. It's not as if any of the other Avengers really pose a threat.

Those tech / enchanted vibranium daggers Panther tosses around, Iron Man's uni-beam that was leveling the street, Wasp's basts that could cut clean in half cargo containers and Giant Man making him self well massive enough to toss around cargo ships HEAVILY DISAGREES WITH THAT STATEMENT. Even Cap was impressive enough to say he could hurt them.

@blackadamFTW said:

@comicdude23 said:

JLA ftw. They have more Powerhouses, and better feats.

Maybe you could tell me the better feats. Because they are thus far NON-EXISTENT.

jla wins, effortless curbstomp

The battle with gravitron was more impressive than anything the JLU did.

@isaac_clarke: BETTER JLA FEATS:

• Superman easily defeats Darkseid in the ending battle of "Destroyer"
• Flash breaks past the Speed Force Barrier (at the near cost of his own life)
• Superman withstands Captain Marvel's magic lightning attacks and very very quickly recovering and holding his hand over CM's mouth to prevent him from speaking SHAZAM!
• Superman defeats Mongul
• Batman avoids Darkseids Omega Beam (something thought as impossible to achieve)
• Wonder Woman holds her own against Ares, God of War
• Flash ran from the Earth to the Sun in what seemed like 15 seconds (where light takes 8 minutes to reach Earth from the Sun)

I know there are more but I can't remember since I haven't watched JL in a while :P Someone else could probably help me though.

Superman vs Thor : Superman

Giant-Man vs Wonder Woman : Wonder Woman

Batman vs Black Panther: Black Panther(its my opinion)

Wasp and Hawkeye vs Green Lantern: Green Lantern

Captian America vs Hawkgirl: Hawkgirl

Iron Man vs Martian Manhunter: Manhunter

Hulk vs Flash : Flash

Black Panther vs Hawkgirl, manhunter,GL,Wonder Woman and Supes

@Om4zd said:

@isaac_clarke: BETTER JLA FEATS:

If I had to guess, no.

• Superman easily defeats Darkseid in the ending battle of "Destroyer"

How did Darkseid lose to Superman when he was about to cut Clark's heart out? Let's not even bother mentioning Darkseid himself isn't as powerful as Thor in the series.

• Flash breaks past the Speed Force Barrier (at the near cost of his own life)

Which again isn't something he can use in a fight and as far as I can tell doesn't even justify him being able to hit hard enough or deliver enough damage before he starts phasing out of reality to even have any usefulness to the fight.

• Superman withstands Captain Marvel's magic lightning attacks and very very quickly recovering and holding his hand over CM's mouth to prevent him from speaking SHAZAM!

That would be awesome is Captain Marvel's lightning had anywhere close to the destructive feats Thor's whipped out with his.

• Superman defeats Mongul

Your point? We're talking feats, listing people Superman beats who are weaker than Thor, the Hulk or the villains in the show the Avengers went up against aren't feats that help them in this debate.

• Batman avoids Darkseids Omega Beam (something thought as impossible to achieve)

And who on the Avengers couldn't replicate the same feat? The beams were depicted slow as hell.

• Wonder Woman holds her own against Ares, God of War

Same as above.

• Flash ran from the Earth to the Sun in what seemed like 15 seconds (where light takes 8 minutes to reach Earth from the Sun)

Time stamp and does he apply that speed in a fight, ever?

I know there are more but I can't remember since I haven't watched JL in a while :P Someone else could probably help me though.

Not what I was looking for. The Graviton fight, Thor's deflection of Kang's blast that was going to nuke New York, hell tanking blasts from an Odin Powered Loki, that stuff blows anything the JLA did out of the water. Outside maybe that time traveling episode and seeing God's hand.

@menaceforever said:

Superman vs Thor : Superman

With the exception of speed, Thor has more destructive output, and vastly better durability / strength.

Giant-Man vs Wonder Woman : Wonder Woman

How does Wonder Woman beat someone much stronger, much more durable and large enough to crush her with his boot?

Batman vs Black Panther: Black Panther(its my opinion)

Out of all the characters on the JLA Batman actually matches better with the humanoids on the Avengers compared to the big guns, but I agree. T'challa had some nifty feats, especially with those daggers.

Wasp and Hawkeye vs Green Lantern: Green Lantern

How? Both the Wasp and Hawkeye have more potent weapons at their command. The Ring in the show wasn't that impressive.

Captian America vs Hawkgirl: Hawkgirl

This one might be right.

Iron Man vs Martian Manhunter: Manhunter

This would be another Maybe, Tony's blasting output is more than enough to one shot the Martian.

Hulk vs Flash : Flash

The Flash isn't strong enough to do anything here. The Hulk will smash the surrounding area and send him flying on his face, likely KOing himself.

Black Panther vs Hawkgirl, manhunter,GL,Wonder Woman and Supes

More like Hawkgirl vs the Avengers. The problem is, it isn't even individual fights and if it were the JLAers would lose most of those fights without question.

The JLA have to much powerhouse the Avengers have no chance.

@isaac_clarke: Thank you so much i actually wanted the Avengers to win but you know how some viners are that start this huge argument when you state youre opinion

@CODYSF said:

The JLA have to much powerhouse the Avengers have no chance.

Except all their powerhouses are much weaker than the Avenger powerhouses, to the point its debatable if they can hurt said avenger power houses.

Not to mention the low end avengers can still actually do harm to the JLA's high tiers to boot.

@Ancient_0f_Days said:

So .... this is Hulk and Thor vs Superman, Wonder Woman, Martian Manhunter, Flash, and Green Lantern

(since the other avengers are non factors)

yeah ... I wonder who wins this time *rollseyes* .....

This.

@CODYSF said:

@Ancient_0f_Days said:

So .... this is Hulk and Thor vs Superman, Wonder Woman, Martian Manhunter, Flash, and Green Lantern

(since the other avengers are non factors)

yeah ... I wonder who wins this time *rollseyes* .....

This.

No, not this.

Even Giant Man can trash most of the JLA on his own. Thor and the Hulk will be DEVASTATING the team.

@isaac_clarke:

LOL wow your a good comedian Giant man beating almost the whole JL cast I just can't take you serious after you said that and Thor and Hulk would get smash by Martian man hunter and Superman but whatever your opinion.

@CODYSF said:

@isaac_clarke:

LOL wow your a good comedian Giant man beating almost the whole JL cast I just can;t take you serious after you said that and Thor and Hulk would get smash by Martian man hunter and Superman but whatever your opinion.

It has nothing to do with comedy.

5:45 Giant Man when he became that large displayed more strength than Superman tossing that cargo ship from the water onto Graviton. Short of Martian Manhunter (potentially) and Superman, he would mop the floor with the rest of the JLA.

Tell me how either MM or SM smash Thor and the Hulk. Because they have way better showings than either of them in regards to punching power and strength.

@isaac_clarke said:

@CODYSF said:

@Ancient_0f_Days said:

So .... this is Hulk and Thor vs Superman, Wonder Woman, Martian Manhunter, Flash, and Green Lantern

(since the other avengers are non factors)

yeah ... I wonder who wins this time *rollseyes* .....

This.

No, not this.

Even Giant Man can trash most of the JLA on his own. Thor and the Hulk will be DEVASTATING the team.

Really? I seem to remember Black Panther owning Pym.

@isaac_clarke:

Dude I'm not going to argue with you your the minority here who thinks that they got a chance find is your opinion but on my opinion the JLA is to much and to strong the Avengers cartoon heck they fought harder characters like Amazo this is a cake walk for the JLA but like I said I'm not gonna keep going cause seems with you this will keep going and it won't stop so take care and have fun ^_^

@CODYSF said:

@isaac_clarke:

Dude I'm not going to argue with you your the minority here who thinks that they got a chance find is your opinion but on my opinion the JLA is to much and to strong the Avengers cartoon heck they fought harder characters like Amazo this is a cake walk for the JLA but like I said I'm not gonna keep going cause seems with you this will keep going and it won't stop so take care and have fun ^_^

The problem is the majority is lacking a factual argument that makes sense.

Amazo single handedly DEFEATED the JLA effortlessly. The weaker incarnation required kryptonite to even put down. Losing to someone is not a feat.

It's like me bringing up having fought Loki with the Odin Power from the series. When the Odin Power was out of control he was going to destroy the nine realms, placing him a slightly higher pedestal than Amazo was, since he was going to be destroying multiple worlds unintentionally.

The reason you are not arguing is because the JLA doesn't have the feats to say they win this.

@Skaddix said:

Really? I seem to remember Black Panther owning Pym.

Was he as large as in the scene mentioned?

@CODYSF:Martian could probably solo, thank god this crappy Avengers cartoon got the axe

@Kentaxx said:

@CODYSF:Martian could probably solo, thank god this crappy Avengers cartoon got the axe

How in god's name could he solo?

Edit:

I'm honestly at a loss in this thread. Where are the arguments for the JLA? Not some one vs one match ups that consist of writing their names x vs x = x, posting the same video of Darkseid being pummeled by Superman (Who he has at his mercy RIGHT after), arguments about one time abilities that nearly killed the characters, how they fought this guy that effortlessly defeated them, or more less saying they win because you like them more.

I don't have an issue with a little fan love for the characters, because DC's animated adventures were good. It's the total lack of common sense and more or less wankery going for the JLA in this thread that has me thrown for a loop.

• Using Superman's final fight in the series, he's faster than anyone here, potentially even the Flash. The problem is Thor an the Hulk are not only much more durable, they have better strength feats, striking feats and lord knows it Thor has way better blasting power feats. He'll Thor more or less actually kills his opponents in his fights.
• The Flash has nice speed feats. It's just that despite that speed he doesn't solo the threats on his own, in fact just about everyone hits him or captures him just as easily as the rest of the JLA. And his actual striking feats, outside that one time he tapped into the speed force, don't make a convincing argument he can hurt the big guns on the team. Punching Giant Man's toes won't do a damn thing either.
• Wonder Woman is potentially less of a threat than Batman in this fight, at least he had batarangs that hurt Darkseid.
• Jon Stewart, can anyone remind me anything he did worth a damn? Given how Hawk's mace can apparently take that ring off that finger, Black Panther could potentially get the damn thing off with a enchanted vibranium dagger.
• Then comes the Martian Manhunter. He had great regen feats, phasing feats, but not so much "MY TELEPATHY OWNS YOU!" feats. He's slower and weaker than Superman, who can arguable beat him.

@isaac_clarke:If it wasn't for telepathy I'd give to the Avengers. Actually I'm not too sure, Supes was able to lift a sky scraper, Flash is still faster than anyone on Avengers as is Supes. I know Thor has some powerful energy attacks, I'd say telepathy is the key here.

@Kentaxx said:

@isaac_clarke:If it wasn't for telepathy I'd give to the Avengers. Actually I'm not too sure, Supes was able to lift a sky scraper, Flash is still faster than anyone on Avengers as is Supes. I know Thor has some powerful energy attacks, I'd say telepathy is the key here.

1:15 Thor is slowing the fall of more than just a skyscrapper. The problem I have with the telepathy argument is the lack of showings saying he can really do anything devastating to the team here. Let alone the Hulk breaking free of someone fiddling with the inside of his noggin when the Enchantress was bewitching him.

@isaac_clarke:Doesn't look like he's slowing it down. Not even a bit

@isaac_clarke:

Flash blitzes BP, HE, and CA ......

Martian Manhunter mind-rapes Pym, Wasp, and Tony ......

Hulk and Thor have to try and deal with Superman, Wonder Woman, Green Lantern, and Hawk Girl

Then after about 2 mins or less, Flash finishes blitzing and Marian finishes mind-raping to join in the beat down .... all the while .... Batman is chillin in the Bat Jet laughing his ass off at this sorry excuse of a fair fight ...... he doesn't even have to get involved .... but if he did, he'd just bomb em all with knockout gas, EMP's, and guided missiles (for the green one) with the bat jet mortar strike style .... all he has to do is reach into his belt .... and press a button ....

I have no idea how you think EMH have a chance in hell .... no idea ....

@Kentaxx said:

@isaac_clarke:Doesn't look like he's slowing it down. Not even a bit

The moment he grabs it there is a visible slow down of the object. Even if you don't look at it as a strengh feat, considering a small metal ball was staggering Superman, Thor was more or less had a city dropped on him without non worse for wear.

@Ancient_0f_Days said:

@isaac_clarke:

Flash blitzes BP, HE, and CA ......

Martian Manhunter mind-rapes Pym, Wasp, and Tony ......

Hulk and Thor have to try and deal with Superman, Wonder Woman, Green Lantern, and Hawk Girl

Then after about 2 mins or less, Flash finishes blitzing and Marian finishes mind-raping to join in the beat down .... all the while .... Batman is chillin in the Bat Jet laughing his ass off at this sorry excuse of a fair fight ...... he doesn't even have to get involved .... but if he did, he'd just bomb em all with knockout gas, EMP's, and guided missiles (for the green one) with the bat jet mortar strike style .... all he has to do is reach into his belt .... and press a button ....

I have no idea how you think EMH have a chance in hell .... no idea ....

I'd imagine the Flash, not knocking who any of these guys are, could potentially go straight for the biggest guy there given how incredibly cocky he was, IE the Hulk, then proceed to get KOed after said assault fails. Do we have to bring up the plethora of people that have knocked the Flash on his rear?

Show me Martian Manhunter "mind raping" anyone. Or give me an episode that wasn't him getting into the heads of one of the Hawks when they were KOed.

They don't have to try. Wonder Woman, Hawk Girl and Green Lanterns are not even on Clark's level given that last episode. It's Thor and the Hulk vs Superman, who arguable cannot do any real damage to either, if any at all.

Because EMH's are individually all capable of hurting members of the league. Thor and the Hulk just have way better feats than the lot of them.

It's not quantity, it's quality.

Whenever I think of the JLU show, I keep remembering that time the Omega Beams KO'd Martian Manhunter but only roughed up Hawkgirl a bit. What was up with that?

@CitizenBane said:

Whenever I think of the JLU show, I keep remembering that time the Omega Beams KO'd Martian Manhunter but only roughed up Hawkgirl a bit. What was up with that?

Beams are inconsistent. Sometimes all they do is burn Superman a bit.

@The Stegman said:

@CitizenBane: Honestly, Hawkgirl had the best showings in the show, way better than I have ever seen her in the comics, like her mace taking down chaos Grundy when the whole team failed to...or her beating Doctor Fate...or her taking down entire space ships with one whack, seriously...she wasn't playin'' around.

The mace was essentially his kryptonite since it disrupted magic / the magic that was animating him that episode. Not sure how she beat Fate.

@The Stegman said:

@isaac_clarke: Well if we get technical, she also beat Fate due to the mace, which Disrupts magic,all of his attacks she just batted away. so I suppose it's connected to how she beat Grundy.

Oh so that extended past just chaos magic, I wasn't aware of that. One of those maces also cleaved Stewart's ring off his finger if I recall(that or an axe).

@isaac_clarke: So ..... instead of disproving this scenario .... you make up an out of character scenario where Flash tries to take out the Hulk .... because he's cocky like that??? Really??? Like it matters cause he could do what he did to Braniac/Luthor but to a lesser extent so he doesn't die (not like it matters because the team would win without him past this point)

Martian Manhunter has mind-raped superman (skip to 3:00) .....

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=endscreen&v=fmObv2HzqbM&NR=1

Thor can't take WW, GL, SM, and HG at the same time ..... not even Superman and Wonder Woman at the same time ..... they can handle him while GL and HG handle Hulk ..... Wonder Woman was beating the crap out of Superman when they thought they were fighting in those ruins and thought they were monsters .... so what was that about

" Wonder Woman, Hawk Girl and Green Lanterns are not even on Clark's level given that last episode."

Hulk or Thor don't have feats better than either WW, SM, GL, MM, or Flash .....

The Stegman said:

@isaac_clarke: Well if we get technical, she also beat Fate due to the mace, which Disrupts magic,all of his attacks she just batted away. so I suppose it's connected to how she beat Grundy.

Oh so that extended past just chaos magic, I wasn't aware of that. One of those maces also cleaved Stewart's ring off his finger if I recall(that or an axe).

@The Stegman said:

Yeah, I think the Nth metal disrupts all magic, and you're right, it was Thanagarian Hawkman, but I can't remember if he actually broke the ring, or just broke John's hand and knocked it off, haven't seen the series in a while.

He broke it(more of a cut in my book), he separated that little Lantern symbol or what have you from the band. Hand was fine, they both did that whole battle for Hawkgirl thing at the end of it.

@Ancient_0f_Days said:

@isaac_clarke: So ..... instead of disproving this scenario .... you make up an out of character scenario where Flash tries to take out the Hulk .... because he's cocky like that??? Really??? Like it matters cause he could do what he did to Braniac/Luthor but to a lesser extent so he doesn't die (not like it matters because the team would win without him past this point)

The Flash was essentially hanging out with the recruits because of how he operates. I wouldn't find it at all out of character for him going for the biggest gun he sees, since he doesn't know a damn about any of the players here.

Martian Manhunter has mind-raped superman (skip to 3:00) .....
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=endscreen&v=fmObv2HzqbM&NR=1

No he wasn't. That's like arguing Martian Manhunter is reality warping in a scenario where he isn't mind "raping" anyone.

"Thor can't take WW, GL, SM, and HG at the same time ..... not even Superman and Wonder Woman at the same time ..... they can handle him while GL and HG handle Hulk ..... Wonder Woman was beating the crap out of Superman when they thought they were fighting in those ruins and thought they were monsters .... so what was that about"

Actually, yes he can. He's physically much more powerful than the lot of them. It will be like that time they tried to beat Amazo on their own and had their rears handed to them on a silver platter, except with more lightning and potentially Thor killing one of them in the process. Superman was restraining himself, allowing Wonder Woman to hurt him, since he saw through the rouse.

In the last episode Superman revealed he was actually much more powerful than he had been the entirety of TAS, JLA and JLU.

" Wonder Woman, Hawk Girl and Green Lanterns are not even on Clark's level given that last episode."
Hulk or Thor don't have feats better than either WW, SM, GL, MM, or Flash .....

Yeah they do. While Wonder Woman punching Clark through a wall is doing damage to him, Thor's tearing apart the street with a hammer toss at Graviton or the Hulk when he starts smashing destroys the surrounding area. They're stronger and hit MUCH harder.

Anyone watch Ultimate Spiderman? I know it's obviously made for kids but it can be pretty funny at times.

@isaac_clarke said:

@menaceforever said:

Superman vs Thor : Superman

With the exception of speed, Thor has more destructive output, and vastly better durability / strength.

Speed is what matters more though. The faster you move to make a hit, the more damage you do.

Giant-Man vs Wonder Woman : Wonder Woman

How does Wonder Woman beat someone much stronger, much more durable and large enough to crush her with his boot?

Size doesn't matter more. Wonder Woman is near Superman's level of strength in the toon.

Batman vs Black Panther: Black Panther(its my opinion)

Out of all the characters on the JLA Batman actually matches better with the humanoids on the Avengers compared to the big guns, but I agree. T'challa had some nifty feats, especially with those daggers.

Fight could go either way since it's not just a H2H battle with gadgets and skills. Bruce is a brilliant tactician in the JL and has better showings for that.

Wasp and Hawkeye vs Green Lantern: Green Lantern

How? Both the Wasp and Hawkeye have more potent weapons at their command. The Ring in the show wasn't that impressive.

Wasn't that impressive? He has trapped beings as powerful and strong as Lobo in a bubble.

Captian America vs Hawkgirl: Hawkgirl

This one might be right.

Sure.

Iron Man vs Martian Manhunter: Manhunter

This would be another Maybe, Tony's blasting output is more than enough to one shot the Martian.

Intangibility, shapeshifting, size alteration, laser vision, greater speed, strength and durability? MM has this.

Hulk vs Flash : Flash

The Flash isn't strong enough to do anything here. The Hulk will smash the surrounding area and send him flying on his face, likely KOing himself.

Again speed is what matters here. Flash doesn't even have to break the speed force barrier again to Speedblitz the Hulk.

Black Panther vs Hawkgirl, manhunter,GL,Wonder Woman and Supes

More like Hawkgirl vs the Avengers. The problem is, it isn't even individual fights and if it were the JLAers would lose most of those fights without question.

Here we go again -_-

@Om4zd said:

Speed is what matters more though. The faster you move to make a hit, the more damage you do.

That doesn't quite matter when the Flash is more or less hitting just as hard as Batman is in the show. Superman's "super speed" punch hits Darkseid somewhere between 1/4 or 1/3 the distance the Hulk's punch launched Graviton. Another notable exception is when Graviton actually lands, the surrounding area is destroyed.

It's clear that in this example, despite however much faster Superman can go, the Hulk hits MUCH harder, as he beats Clark in every way with said punch.

Size doesn't matter more. Wonder Woman is near Superman's level of strength in the toon.

One thing, no she isn't. Another is Giant Man is stronger than Superman is. Now you have someone a couple sky-scrappers in size, whose stronger than Superman vs a bunch of people the size of ants by comparison, she won't be winning that fight.

Fight could go either way since it's not just a H2H battle with gadgets and skills. Bruce is a brilliant tactician in the JL and has better showings for that.

Brilliant is a bit much, since he more or less payed the bills and acted as that outsider in the group, saving the day occasionally because he had no special powers outside bat-factor. If it was just hand to hand, Bruce wouldn't win that fight.

Wasn't that impressive? He has trapped beings as powerful and strong as Lobo in a bubble.

And his barriers have been brought down by someone throwing a chalice at him really fast. Just about any brute in the show has busted through his shields, his ring has even been cut off his finger and more or less he lacks much of anything to pose a threat to most of the team, blasting a couple of redshirt Manhunters apart doesn't prove much when even the Flash was going through three of them effortlessly(that was before being surrounded by five of them requiring Stewart to save him by throwing some generic blasts at them).

Intangibility, shapeshifting, size alteration, laser vision, greater speed, strength and durability? MM has this.

It's nice to list powers an all, but even during his best showing:

• He's using the intangibility to avoid being shot by a normal gun / phasing through the floor.
• His durability didn't prevent some big robot from literally tearing him in half.
• Shape-shifting does nothing here, I don't even remember any size alteration from Manhunter. His "laser vision" isn't even as potent as Stark's standard repulsor blasts, even toon Tony has force fields to back him up if he isn't already too durable for the Martian to do much to.

More or less, the Martian despite his abilities would get trashed by Superman, so he isn't nessarily a big threat to anyone outside Wasp, Captain America or Black Panther.

Hulk vs Flash : Flash

The Flash isn't strong enough to do anything here. The Hulk will smash the surrounding area and send him flying on his face, likely KOing himself.

Again speed is what matters here. Flash doesn't even have to break the speed force barrier again to Speedblitz the Hulk.

The problem is the Flash doesn't actually hit remotely hard enough to hurt the Hulk. Throwing a couple of dozen(and that's being generous) punches that he uses to knock around a few normal people isn't going to do anything but get him knocked on his rear.