Avengers big 3 + Spider-Man run the anime gauntlet

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Ready_4_Madness

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@lilbroomstick: well I agree with that user so there’s nothing to debate there.

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Thor-Parker

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@theincrediblesuperhulk8642:

it’s interesting that you both say that because for the longest time, specifically from the 60’s-80’s Cap was one of the 3 most popular marvel characters alongside Spidey and Hulk with Thing being the fourth place runner up. He fell out of favour in the 90’s as did literally everyone not a dark anti hero barring Spider-Man and Superman (Supes took a massive hit he still hasn’t fully recovered from during that time).

Not saying I don't believe you, but what's your source for saying Cap was the third most popular character from Marvel in that time period ? Spidey and Hulk I agree where the top 2, and I'd argue the entirety of the F4 ranked the following spots.

Wolverine was only ever a top 3 player during the 90’s and 2000’s.

Wolverine was created mid 70s and gained massive popularity thanks to Claremont's use of him on Uncanny X-Men as well as his solo run, and that was on the first half of the 80s, so Wolverine became Top 3 for the 80s, 90s and most especially the 2000s with his appearance on the X-Men movie and the consecutive over-exposure of the character where he appeared everywhere left and right.

That though was a double edged sword, he suffered lots of retcons that contradict themselves and make Wolverine's background even more fuzzy than it was before he didn't know who he was, I've read a lot of him and read his wiki page like 10 times and for the love of god I still can't do a timeline for his life and what he did prior to being infused with adamantium and after the fusion. The good side is that even though he suffered lots of retcons, likewise he got just as many great stories that comfortably postitions him as one of the best, most interesting, complex and quality consistent characters in the comic book industry.

IMO Wolverine, Daredevil, Spider-Man and Batman are the most consistent characters in terms of quality in their books.

With the MCU it just reinvigorated Cap’s popularity and Thor’s (Thor’s popularity bounces around a lot)

Yeah, Thor's popularity bounced around a lot back in the day, he was popular, then he wasn't, and so on, but now he has solidified as an A-Lister and has surpassed even Hulk in popularity, I'd argue.

and actually put Iron Man on the map. Eventually knocking Hulk and Wolverine down the leaderboards. I’m sure the MCU boost will again reinvigorate Wolverine as a character again.

Agreed.

But if I may (just for the Cap argument) when Steve was killed off, his death made headlines around the world.

You mean in Brubaker's run ?

The only 2 character (comic wise) who have had any impact on pop culture/society while being killed off is Superman (he’s the big one) with Cap being the other one. Not even Batman’s faux death garnered the widespread notoriety that Cap did. I’d argue Spider-Man’s death without question would be up there with Supes and Cap in terms of media coverage but it’s something to chew on.

I will correct you there, Spider-Man's death on the Ultimate Universe was definitely bigger, it was international news, I'm not from the USA and I remember reading on a local newspaper about the death of Spider-Man, I had never seen a newspaper report on something like that, I remember it even made it to the TV on the news, and while I wasn't around for Superman's death, I was most definitely for Steve's and I don't remember any news about it.

Also next time you shop around pay attention, there’s not a lot of Wolverine solo merch imo. Cap is easily the Avenger with the most merch I see with Iron Man, Thor, Hulk and Captain Marvel following up (in that order), with Punisher and Deadpool also having tons with of course Spider-Man eclipsing everything barring the Avengers as a team.

Yeah, Cap's merchandise currently eclipses Wolverine's, he's definitely more popular right now, I'll concede, but he does not reach the icon status that Logan has as a character, and within the comic book industry itself, Wolverine dwarfs Steve in star power, but that's a smaller bubble than general audience obviously.

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TheIncredibleSuperHulk8642

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@thor_parker82: If you go back during that time, Cap was consistently included in any Marvel ad that would showcase its premier characters. It was always Cap, Hulk and Spidey. He was essentially the main character of Avengers and had his own ongoing, consistently merched out (kinda like he is now). Even other companies who would do Marvel/DC ads it was always the regular DC Trinity with Spidey, Hulk and Cap.

Wolverines popularity hit a boom in the 90’s. Even in the 80’s he still wasn’t a BIG player yet. He boomed in the 90’s when Batman boomed, Punisher, Ghost Rider, etc.

I’d argue Thor is definitely up there if not moreso than Spidey and Wolvie in terms of consistency. Wolvie and Spidey are similar to Superman where they don’t have a lot of outstanding runs oftent but they’re generally never BAD.

See I thought so too very much, but in the data video I watched Hulk is still above Thor in popularity which really surprised me (Thor is above Wolverine though) and in that same video Wolverine wasn’t as much of a juggernaut as you’re making him out to be. He was only in the top 10 a few times.

See, I have the reverse impression. Ultimate Spidey’s death was smth but because it wasn’t 616 Spidey the impact wasn’t as big. The impact of Cap’s death legitimately made the news (as did Supes a decade before) and was worldwide knowledge making headlines everywhere. (Cap is basically what America wishes it was/should aspire to be, he’s their mascot in a way.)

Gotta disagree my man, Steve is very much as iconic as Logan. Why do you think so many companies rip him off (Captain Canuck, Fighting American, Guardian, Deathstroke, Soldier, The Shield, etc.) He’s one of those characters that just has that massively huge Legendary status ala Supes, Spidey and Wondy of being these symbols of heroism, icons and mascots that just can’t be touched. I’d argue he’s honestly roughly around Wondy level imo. Batman, Wolverine and Hulk are different in that they represent that sort of rebel, badass, messed up, F the system kind of style that people really connect with.

I’ll send you the link to the data video in a PM if I find it

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Thor-Parker

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#54  Edited By Thor-Parker

@theincrediblesuperhulk8642: Just saw the video you sent me, and I found it really off track, it offered no actual sources or bibliographies for the information it is showing (aside from "a friend did a poll") and seems to be based only on people saying who is their favorite superhero, and completely ignores actual popularity, recognizability and status in pop culture.

Again, I can definitely concede on Steve being currently more famous, but there's no way he was more famous during the 90s and 2000s which the video suggests, you made much better arguments than that video which I find very weak.

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TheIncredibleSuperHulk8642

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@thor_parker82: the data’s procured from a cinema polling company from mostly Europe and the States.

Although I definitely agree Wolverine slacking in the 90’s and 2000’s really doesn’t work. He was so massive he arguably dethroned Spider-Man in sheer popularity at the time (like how Batman dethroned Supes in the 90’s and has stayed on top ever since). I think at the end of the day we’re both right. Cap I feel like is more of an icon on his own naturally than Wolvie is (taking away the MCU and Fox Movies) and cemented himself in the annals of History greatly benefitted by WW2 ofc (again look at how Cap’s death made headlines and news stories with zero MCU influence whereas Wolverine’s did not with Fox Wolvie going on) His popularity also had a greater streak of longevity than Logan’s BUT Steve never hit the highs that Logan did. Well apart from the 2010’s where Cap is regularly being put in second place behind Spider-Man, but Logan had a roughly 20 year boom/juggernaut push that literally no character (apart from Batman) has ever matched or surpassed.

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Thor-Parker

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@thor_parker82: the data’s procured from a cinema polling company from mostly Europe and the States.

Although I definitely agree Wolverine slacking in the 90’s and 2000’s really doesn’t work. He was so massive he arguably dethroned Spider-Man in sheer popularity at the time (like how Batman dethroned Supes in the 90’s and has stayed on top ever since). I think at the end of the day we’re both right. Cap I feel like is more of an icon on his own naturally than Wolvie is (taking away the MCU and Fox Movies) and cemented himself in the annals of History greatly benefitted by WW2 ofc (again look at how Cap’s death made headlines and news stories with zero MCU influence whereas Wolverine’s did not with Fox Wolvie going on) His popularity also had a greater streak of longevity than Logan’s BUT Steve never hit the highs that Logan did. Well apart from the 2010’s where Cap is regularly being put in second place behind Spider-Man, but Logan had a roughly 20 year boom/juggernaut push that literally no character (apart from Batman) has ever matched or surpassed.

Still, the way the poll was conducted was sketchy and we never see the actual results, I would take that video with a grain of salt, I believe you and think you are more informed than I believe that video lol.

Definitely, I can get completely behind that, Wolverine had a massive push and achieved popularity at a rate rarely seen, but Steve has been more consistent and stayed on top of the food chain for decades, and now the MCU pushed him to extreme heights. To help even further your argument for Cap, the panel of him saying "Hail Hydra" became quite popular outside of the comic book bubble and made it to tons of social media prescence, both news and meme pages non-geek related, I remember a friend of mine asked me about it and what happened, he was worried about why he'd say that lol, I had to explain the cosmic cube stuff, my friends don't usually ask me about comic book stuff because things rarely get out of that bubble.

One more thing that sadly made it outside the comic book bubble as well was female Thor back in 2014, no one knew what the hell actually happened, they just suddenly knew Thor was going to be a woman, and it got even worse last year when "Love and Thunder" was announced, all the basic girls with zero knowledge on the character or even Jane started flooding Facebook with posts about it and emojis of excitement and heart eyes........ugh, and I am genuinely worried that this movie will actually ruin Thor in favor of proping her up.

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The_Institution

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Stop at 17

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Kajin_Style

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@kajin_style: Captain America and Spider-Man are amped to essentially being mini Thors. Iron Man can give Cap precog with prep since he already has it himself. They would all be able to go MFTL speeds based off of feats. Has Luffy ever resisted magical planetary lightning before? Has he ever tanked the above Sun level heat that Iron Man can produce? The solar system destroying power that Thor has? Tony's satellites that can destroy anything in their path?

If we go by the consistent somewhat street level they're at then yeah Luffy might have some advantages but not here when they're at their best. Iron Man and Thor can shrug off city busting, mountain busting, and even island busting attacks easily. Iron Man has even tanked blast that put noticable craters on the moon, shrugged off two West Coast destroying attacks and destruction from a Dyson Sphere while Thor can tank above planet level attacks. Off of pure physical strength alone Iron Man would be multi-city+ level at least while Thor has above planetary strength. Worthy Grey Gargoyle was manhandling and pulverizing bleeding edge Iron Man(one of Tony's best armors) so that's the kind of power Spidey/Cap can get from the Worthy amp. Thor, Cap, and Spidey could at all throw their hammers at MFTL speeds and you think Luffy can survive that? Thor has been uppercutted into space by Cosmic Spider-Man and casually came back. Meanwhile Thor could easily BFR Luffy to another dimension or Thor/Tony could just take him for a sundip(can Luffy breathe in space?) Yeah I would say Luffy has little to no advantages.

Ahh... plenty good points. I concede. :)

I did not know they be mini-thors nor that Thor himself had MFTL feats. Given I don't read the comics, I was assuming Tony would be Luffy's main issue.

Luffy has lightning immunity, it has been thoroughly tested. Sun level heat? Depends, he does generated his own heat based attacks, it really depends the length of exposure and if he can Armament up in time, before finding a way out of the beam's path. Luffy's new form of haki lets him attack objects and people internally, which could've been argued to by pass Tony's armor. Then there's his own precog and foresight which are both illustrated differently. Finally there are the Gear forms and the lack of a real upper limit to his ability to stretch which means he has the range to hit anyone flying high up.

So these are the advantages I saw immediately for Luffy. I didn't realize their stats were just way beyond Luffy's capacity. The numbers just aren't in his favor.

So yea, he get wrecked in the end.

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Edgelord91

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Gauntlet is out of order and Why is Kirito here? I could beat him

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SeaGod

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@edgelord91: while I agree the gauntlet is out of order I highly doubt you could beat him.

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Lilbroomstick

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Gauntlet is out of order and Why is Kirito here? I could beat him

@seagod said:

@edgelord91: while I agree the gauntlet is out of order I highly doubt you could beat him.

LOL well, I already addressed Kirito's feats with other users. What order what you guys have the gauntlet?

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SeaGod

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@lilbroomstick: well I'd say Tatsumi should be lower like below Luffy maybe below Genos

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TheIncredibleSuperHulk8642

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@thor_parker82: That’s fair lmao 😂😂😂

Yuuuuuup the Hail Hydra stuff was eeeevvvveeerrryyywheeere. One of the most massive plot twists in comics ever. Although the ending story (wasn’t as strong and concise as it could’ve been) the whole arc of Cap being Hydra was really fascinating.

Yeah........Female Thor is.......a particular case. I dislike Marvel (both comics and movies now) obsession with pandering (look no further than Captain Marvel) it’s become like a running gag at this point. We both disagree on Aaron’s Thor but I can agree that when this was announced I was not a happy camper. Not only is it enough that we’ve had multiple people wield Mjolnir, but Thor just got Mjolnir back to lose it to Jane + they essentially ruined Thor in Endgame (imo) and instead of really focusing on building him back up and fixing him in Thor: LaT, we’re gonna have the Jane arc shoe horned in. I have faith in Taika, he’s proven himself a phenomenal talent and director but I’m also annoyed that they’ll do the typical thing that the female character > the male like they’ve done with Jane > Thor, Carol > Marv-Ell, Jen > Banner (this one in particular I feel like is very likely what with Hulk being a flip flop in the MCU), etc. It isn’t even about being a misogynist. I’d freaking hate for a male based Black Widow, Kitty Pryde, Storm, Jean Grey, Gamora, Scarlet Witch, Medusa, Jessica Jones, Wasp, Wonder Woman, Vixen, Black Canary, Big Barda, etc. To overshadow the original female one.

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Juicers

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not getting past Toriko

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Lilbroomstick

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#65  Edited By Lilbroomstick

@seagod: In my opinion he's stronger than current Luffy due to flight, the ability to evolve, likely being faster(sub-relativistic speed), durability to tank Shikoutazer's lasers, and striking power to ragdoll a state-sized mech across a continent-sized country.

Genos is probably inferior to Luffy in everything except for speed. His durability seems to be somewhat fodder and he's basically a worse version of Tatsumi/incursio since he has to get destroyed before he can upgrade.