Avatar: Ghazan runs an earth bender gauntlet

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deactivated-5eeb201d11f2c

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Fights takes place in the Crystal Catacombs:

No Caption Provided

Ghazan starts where Aang is, his opponent starts where Katara is. In rounds with a metalbender, the metalbender has their standard gear along with 1 Fire Nation tank and one meteor of the same size as Kuvira's combined meteors in the Colossus placed next to them.

Ghazan is fully rested and healed between rounds.

All fighters are in character, but completely serious.

Round 1: Xin Fu

Round 2: Composite Dai Li agent

Round 3: General Guan

Round 4: Korra (earth and metalbending only, avatar state restricted)

Round 5: Aang (earthbending only, avatar state restricted)

Round 6: Lin Beifong

Round 7: Suyin Beifong

Round 8: Bolin

Round 9: Yaling

Round 10: Toph

Round 11: Kuvira

Round 12: King Bumi

If you disagree with the order, say which rounds Ghazan wins and which ones he loses.

How far does Ghazan make it?

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Captain_Narlowe

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Possibly stops at Lin or Suyin, but not at Bolin.

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EmmaFrostXmen

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Lin > Su

Also stops at Lin

Additionally Toph fans are so ignorant that despite Yaling defeating Toph they still say Toph > Yaling.

Look I love Toph, and she has great 1v1 feats, but she has no victories against a single notable opponent.

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Aystarr

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Stops at one of the sisters

@mialthefencer: Why is kuvira after toph?, Toph's definitely more useful in this environment

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geekryan

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Stops at Lin.

Lin > Suyin > Bolin

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Amendment50

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Stops from 8-10 I think.

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Tektonic

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@geekryan said:

Stops at Lin.

Lin > Suyin > Bolin

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@aystarr said:

Stops at one of the sisters

mialthefencer: Why is kuvira after toph?, Toph's definitely more useful in this environment

IMO, Ghazan is a relatively bad match up for Toph because her biggest strength is her power, which he can get through with lava. Something like lava from the ceiling would be difficult for Toph to deal with. On the other hand, Ghazan's not as fast as Kuvira, which makes him vulnerable to a quick metal incap before he can get rolling. It's a question of match ups, not overall power level (this is also why I have Bolin above the Beifong sisters, because he can directly counter Ghazan's lava).

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deactivated-5eeb201d11f2c

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I'm curious as to reasons for the sisters (either one) beating him:

@geekryan said:

Stops at Lin.

Lin > Suyin > Bolin

@aystarr said:

Stops at one of the sisters

mialthefencer: Why is kuvira after toph?, Toph's definitely more useful in this environment

Possibly stops at Lin or Suyin, but not at Bolin.

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geekryan

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#12  Edited By geekryan
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Could stop at Toph. Stops at Kuvira.

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thebuckaronatr

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Probably Lin but could clear Suyin maybe, Bolin and Yaling.

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Viking1205

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Stops at chief Beifong.

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Lin > Su

Also stops at Lin

Additionally Toph fans are so ignorant that despite Yaling defeating Toph they still say Toph > Yaling.

Look I love Toph, and she has great 1v1 feats, but she has no victories against a single notable opponent.

Toph is above Yaling in this gauntlet because lava counters earth better than it does metal, and Toph can metalbend while Yaling can't.

I'm also curious as to why you put Lin above Suyin? I've always viewed them as more or less equal, with maybe a slight edge to Suyin.

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Arcus1

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Potentially stops at Lin or Su, but I could definitely see him beating them as well. 50/50, maybe. If we had seen a bit more of Ghazan's capabilities, I think he would be able to win

I think he'd still beat Bolin, narrowly. By Book 4, Bolin would definitely be a much better match for him than he was in Book 3, but Ghazan still showed greater lava-bending ability and has hype backing him up

Yailing's a good earthbender, but without a sub-element to draw or the raw power to simply overwhelm him, I don't think she'd win Ghe comic made it pretty clear that, although she's a very gifted earthbender, Toph was supposed to be superior overall. Toph was never really in any danger, since she knew Sokka had her back. Tbh, I'd be inclined to say she and Aang would be comparable at earthbending (she's got the fight with Toph, but Aang has a wide range of showings of power and versatility). Both of them could potentially pressure Ghazan, but his fight with Bolin at Misty Palms indicates that it's pretty tough for an earthbender to fight Ghazan without a sub-element

Toph's raw power and metalbending would help her against Ghazan. The gap between book 3 Bolin and Toph is large enough that, although Ghazan was overwhelming Bolin, I'm not sure he could do the same to Toph. Plus, she's honed her metalbending enough in the comics to use that as a supplement to her earthbending offense. It's not impossible that Ghazan could beat her, especially if the fight goes on and he continues to build momentum with the lava. I just don't think he got quite enough showings to say that he would

Kuvira's similar to the Beifong sisters, except a tad more dangerous. If Ghazan gains momentum with his lava, I can definitely see him winning, but Kuvira's quick and precise style might let her take him down before that happens. If they were to fight in the show (obviously impossible now), I would expect it to be an interesting match

Bumi's got the sheer power to just overwhelm Ghazan with more earth than he can counter

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chloros

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I think he would stop at Lin or Su. Lin having a bit more raw power and Su being a bit more nimble. I'm just going to talk about them together as I feel they are pretty similar in what they can do here.

At this distance Ghazan has a good chance of putting up a solid defense around him, If he decides to go for that tactic which I think is his best bet. Sort of like what he does at the beginning of this clip:

Loading Video...

The Beifong's cables allow them access for some mobility to jump around the lava, or maybe attach to a pillar to swing around from and avoid it. They will need to close the gap between them and the lava to get to Ghazan. If they can get in range of him, they can tie him up with metal cables or restrict parts of him with metal strips. They are quick enough dodge any rocks or lava he may throw at them while they are in pursuit toward him. They can also attack while being mobile. Like when Su was was traveling on the cable and shot metal strips at Zaheer. Ghazan could block these more ranged attacks with earth shields though.

No Caption Provided

They are experienced enough to know not to try and fight him with just earth, as it gives him more ammo in a way, but they can win it with the metal they are provided with and gear.

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BigDreamer48

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Could stop at Lin/Suyin, but he'd beat Bolin and Yaling. IDK about Toph but I could see Kuvira and definitely King Bumi beating him.

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Tektonic

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I do feel Ghazan is the most underestimated member of the Red Lotus, but I can see why, the last three episodes of B3 made him look bad. The writers didn't care enough about him or Ming Hua to give them a respectable sendoff.

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@tektonic Agreed. He is my favorite RL member and he always seems to get shoved behind the others when it comes to discussion threads.

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@tektonic: Upon his immense destruction, Ghazan sees that Mako and Bolin escape. Furious at this, he wants to get out so he can take his revenge. Upon his escape he notices Ming-Hua. He grabs her and quickly heads to safety. He realizes that she is near death and brings her to an expect healer, an old member from the Red Lotus. Ming-Hua lives. The two marry and live happily ever after while plotting their revenge against the brothers! Find out how it all goes down in the next issue of Korra.

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Tektonic

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@tektonic Agreed. He is my favorite RL member and he always seems to get shoved behind the others when it comes to discussion threads.

It's true, pairing him with Bolin for the season was a death sentence in terms of him getting taken seriously.

@chloros said:

@tektonic: Upon his immense destruction, Ghazan sees that Mako and Bolin escape. Furious at this, he wants to get out so he can take his revenge. Upon his escape he notices Ming-Hua. He grabs her and quickly heads to safety. He realizes that she is near death and brings her to an expect healer, an old member from the Red Lotus. Ming-Hua lives. The two marry and live happily ever after while plotting their revenge against the brothers! Find out how it all goes down in the next issue of Korra.

No Caption Provided

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@tektonic said:

I do feel Ghazan is the most underestimated member of the Red Lotus, but I can see why, the last three episodes of B3 made him look bad. The writers didn't care enough about him or Ming Hua to give them a respectable sendoff.

I don't think the writers disrespected him, it's just his big moments weren't individual fights like his team mates. Ming Hua shined in her and P'li's escape, P'li had her moment of glory against the Metal Clan and Zaheer had his fight with AS Korra. Ghazan had big moments too (saved their bacon in Zaofu, brought Ba Sing Se's inner wall down, and destroyed an entire air temple) but they weren't fights. Since CV understandably focuses on the fights, he looks less impressive to most viners than I think the writers intended.

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@mialthefencer: Lin has better use of cables by far, and therefore she’s more agile which is a huge advantage in earth/metal battles.

Also I’ve seen people say Toph > Yalin even in normal threads so that’s definitely not the reason.

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@emmafrostxmen:

Lin has better use of cables by far, and therefore she’s more agile which is a huge advantage in earth/metal battles.

I'd argue that Lin's cables allow her to dodge big power moves more effectively, but Suyin's greater natural agility allows her to dodge smaller, faster moves more effectively (eg, Lin can dodge a combustion blast better than Suyin, but Suyin can dodge metal sheets or boulder spam better than Lin). Most bending attacks are on the smaller end, which I think gives the edge in evasiveness to Suyin. I'd also say that Suyin is a more fluid and creative metalbender (based on creating armor against Kuvira) and that she's faster as well (again based on her showing vs Kuvira).

Also I’ve seen people say Toph > Yalin even in normal threads so that’s definitely not the reason.

It's the reason on this thread.

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@tektonic said:

I do feel Ghazan is the most underestimated member of the Red Lotus, but I can see why, the last three episodes of B3 made him look bad. The writers didn't care enough about him or Ming Hua to give them a respectable sendoff.

I don't think the writers disrespected him, it's just his big moments weren't individual fights like his team mates. Ming Hua shined in her and P'li's escape, P'li had her moment of glory against the Metal Clan and Zaheer had his fight with AS Korra. Ghazan had big moments too (saved their bacon in Zaofu, brought Ba Sing Se's inner wall down, and destroyed an entire air temple) but they weren't fights. Since CV understandably focuses on the fights, he looks less impressive to most viners than I think the writers intended.

Yep they saddled him with the wrong opponents.

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FanFeatRT

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r4 but he absolutely cannot get pass r8

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darthfallax

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Usually I'd say that one of the Beifongs would stop him, but the catacombs should be a pretty good enviroment for him - he has walls and the ceiling to collapse and he has enough starting distance to create a lava lake to use before his opponents reach him. I'd say he could go as far as Toph if he plays it smart, if not he probably stops at Lin. He beats Bolin either way though.

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@fanfeatrt:

r4 but he absolutely cannot get pass r8

I'm curious as to why you have Korra beating him. Most of the other responses have him stopping somewhere in the 6-10 range.

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FanFeatRT

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@mialthefencer:

Korra is superior to him in every single stat (speed, durability, precision, skill) knows traditional and pro bending earthbending, has airbender movement, etc. She can dodge or tank most of his earthbending attacks. If ghazan wants to beat her he will have to play defensively but korra has good earthbending feats (spamming huge rocks that was stunning kurviras mech)

You gave her metalbending, so if you give her a metal cable she now has a way to grab him and keep him constantly moving. Give her a metal orb and korra will take the majority

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@fanfeatrt:

Korra is superior to him in every single stat (speed, durability, precision, skill)

It's true that Korra is physically superior to Ghazan, but I don't think physicals alone is likely to decide this sort of bending fight. What makes you think Korra is more skilled than Ghazan? It's hard to measure, but Ghazan seems to have either invented or independently developed lavabending, which puts him on a high level of skill.

knows traditional and pro bending earthbending,

This is true, but it's not like Ghazan can't deal with traditional earthbending:

No Caption Provided

And Bolin is also a pro-bender, and Ghazan had no issue stomping him before he learned lavabending.

has airbender movement, etc. She can dodge or tank most of his earthbending attacks

This is probably right, but Ghazan is a lavabender first and foremost, and she definitely isn't tanking that.

If ghazan wants to beat her he will have to play defensively but korra has good earthbending feats (spamming huge rocks that was stunning kurviras mech)

Ghazan has good lavabending feats like melting a mountain top:

No Caption Provided

In a 1v1 fight with another bender, neither of them is likely to go to that level of power output.

You gave her metalbending, so if you give her a metal cable she now has a way to grab him and keep him constantly moving. Give her a metal orb and korra will take the majority

Korra's cable usage isn't the best, and Ghazan can probably dodge it.

Not trying to argue Ghazan beats Korra here, since it's my own thread, but I'm not sure a physicals/pure earth advantage is enough to take down Ghazan.

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@fanfeatrt:

Korra is superior to him in every single stat (speed, durability, precision, skill)

>It's true that Korra is physically superior to Ghazan, but I don't think physicals alone is likely to decide this sort of bending fight. What makes you think Korra is more skilled than Ghazan? It's hard to measure, but Ghazan seems to have either invented or independently developed lavabending, which puts him on a high level of skill.

I'd say because her versatility with all of the 4 elements and how she can combine them during battle, and overall better feats(even though this is obvious because shes the mc) Ghazan is strong, but feat wise? He only fought bolin, mako and bumi.

knows traditional and pro bending earthbending,

>This is true, but it's not like Ghazan can't deal with traditional earthbending

I agree, groundlevel earth attacks are bad against ghazan but korras best earthbending feats has been her lifting earth above the air and launching it at him.

No Caption Provided

>And Bolin is also a pro-bender, and Ghazan had no issue stomping him before he learned lavabending.

Agree

has airbender movement, etc. She can dodge or tank most of his earthbending attacks

>This is probably right, but Ghazan is a lavabender first and foremost, and she definitely isn't tanking that.

Yeah, she wont be tanking any lava attacks, however it will be difficult for him to land a hit on her. Bolin, Mako and Bumi were able to dodge the majority of his attacks.

If ghazan wants to beat her he will have to play defensively but korra has good earthbending feats (spamming huge rocks that was stunning kurviras mech)

>Ghazan has good lavabending feats like melting a mountain top:

Agree

No Caption Provided

>In a 1v1 fight with another bender, neither of them is likely to go to that level of power output.

Somewhat agree, however in the final series korras best feats were done with minimum charging time.

You gave her metalbending, so if you give her a metal cable she now has a way to grab him and keep him constantly moving. Give her a metal orb and korra will take the majority

>Korra's cable usage isn't the best, and Ghazan can probably dodge it.

True.

>Not trying to argue Ghazan beats Korra here, since it's my own thread, but I'm not sure a physicals/pure earth advantage is enough to take down Ghazan.

However now rewatching the bolin vs ghazan fight, ghazan might take a slight majority in this setting. He can pretty much generate lava from any direction, which will be difficult for korra to dodge. In a more open area, I'd say korra could take the slight majority

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clears imo. lava is too powerful and he has debateably more hype then anyone on this list

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@tektonic said:

I do feel Ghazan is the most underestimated member of the Red Lotus, but I can see why, the last three episodes of B3 made him look bad. The writers didn't care enough about him or Ming Hua to give them a respectable sendoff.

@tektonic Agreed. He is my favorite RL member and he always seems to get shoved behind the others when it comes to discussion threads.

agreed

@chloros said:

@tektonic: Upon his immense destruction, Ghazan sees that Mako and Bolin escape. Furious at this, he wants to get out so he can take his revenge. Upon his escape he notices Ming-Hua. He grabs her and quickly heads to safety. He realizes that she is near death and brings her to an expect healer, an old member from the Red Lotus. Ming-Hua lives. The two marry and live happily ever after while plotting their revenge against the brothers! Find out how it all goes down in the next issue of Korra.

im not sure if id be horribly stupid to ask if this was real?

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frijacks12345

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@fanfeatrt: so u have bolin>korra w/ only earth? and u do have bolin.TOPH? IM SRY, IM JUST SO GLAD SOMEONE FINALLY STICKS UP fo bolin!

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@frijacks12345: Unfortunately, no. I just made it up. It was what I hoped for to happen lol. But with Avatar Studios maybe we can get some Red Lotus when they were younger.

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@chloros said:

@frijacks12345: Unfortunately, no. I just made it up. It was what I hoped for to happen lol. But with Avatar Studios maybe we can get some Red Lotus when they were younger.

ok lol.

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@chloros said:

@frijacks12345: Unfortunately, no. I just made it up. It was what I hoped for to happen lol. But with Avatar Studios maybe we can get some Red Lotus when they were younger.

Omg, I really hope so!! I'd love some on Ghazan, learning about how the 1st non-avatar lavabender discovered and learned ti would be abesolutely epic!! I heard that P'li was like a slave or something and then Zaherr freed her tho, hope that was true.

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Tektonic

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Omg, I really hope so!! I'd love some on Ghazan, learning about how the 1st non-avatar lavabender discovered and learned ti would be abesolutely epic!! I heard that P'li was like a slave or something and then Zaherr freed her tho, hope that was true.

Yes that's true it was said in 3x11 by P'Li and also elaborated in the S3 artbook. Hopefully we get to see it in a backstory series or comic someday.

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Stops at Toph, who is above Kuvira, and he'd stop at Kuvira if he didn't keep his head up

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@tektonic said:
@frijacks12345 said:

Omg, I really hope so!! I'd love some on Ghazan, learning about how the 1st non-avatar lavabender discovered and learned ti would be abesolutely epic!! I heard that P'li was like a slave or something and then Zaherr freed her tho, hope that was true.

Yes that's true it was said in 3x11 by P'Li and also elaborated in the S3 artbook. Hopefully we get to see it in a backstory series or comic someday.

Alr, cool!! Yh, I really hope we do. we have on Kuvira, Amon, and a bit on Unalaq as well, some of the RL would be epic!!

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frijacks12345

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Stops at Toph, who is above Kuvira, and he'd stop at Kuvira if he didn't keep his head up

wdym didnt have his head up?

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Azronger

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That's a really cool gif.