@jedisympathiz3r: cool match. Avar I think takes a Force battle via her statements comparing her to Yoda. Can’t really say much on their dueling prowess. Maybe Elzar or Gios? Not entirely clear.
Dueling is difficult to assess, but the willingness to kill slides in Elzar’s favor in all rounds because of Rising Storm. He threw a sky island and didn’t care about the Nihil he was “sending to the force.”
If he gets pissed off, it’s over for the others. I don’t think they will be able to stop him.
Holding a ship back was always so cool to me, but it’s become so commonplace. When Ahsoka did it in TCW, essentially as a padawan, it lost some of its impressiveness. The only reason she didn’t pull Maul’s ship back was because the clones were closing in on her and Rex.
It also brings up a huge plot hole in AOTC. Why didn’t Yoda, the strongest Jedi, grab Dooku’s solar sailer?
@lightordark: she didn’t look like she was really succeeding in pulling it back though. She just realized helping Rex was more important and a more useful use of her energy than pursuing Maul.
Didn’t Dooku take off just as Yoda was saving Obi-Wan and Anakin? Regardless there’s already several issues with that scene to be honest. Like why didn’t Yoda just move them out of the way of that giant beam or whatever instead of straining to lift it? Or why didn’t Dooku use that opportunity to strike Yoda down and kill him instead of running away?
@a_fine_edition: She wasn’t pulling it back, but he definitely wasn’t going anywhere. Helping Rex was important, but she would be a been killed if she kept trying to hold him.
Yeah, there is a ton of stuff wrong with the scene. Padme running up to Anakin and hugging him in front of Yoda and Obi Wan. And it’s never addressed.
@lightordark: It was very clear that the two had developed some semblance of a relationship. Obi-Wan even stresses that if Anakin pursues it he’ll be expelled from the order in the previous scene. Obi is very aware of the nature of their relationship at that point, but assumes that Anakin let go and moved on after the film. Or at the very least decides not to pursue Padme. And even then he still has suspicions all throughout the war.
@a_fine_edition: I always figured that they looked the other way because of the “Chosen One” prophecy. Since Anakin was meant to destroy the Sith, they gave him a longer leash so to speak. Obi knew for sure. TCW made that clear, as did ROTS.
The HR gives a more realistic view of the Jedi as people, especially as padawans. Elzar getting drunk around Avar, and his affair that led to the rage during the battle during Rising Storm.
The HR is showing that a relationship shouldn’t have been that difficult to navigate for the council. They should have plenty of experience with it.
Assuming Avar really is #2 to Yoda in Force power, than her winning that Force fight shouldn't really be in dispute. We assume she's above all Jedi but Yoda. Sabers only and all-out rounds are more debatable, but I don't really see how Round 2 is, unless you consider Avar's "second to Yoda" accolades to be illegitimate.
@shroudofsorrow: agreed. Dueling is debatable, but besides Elzar’s Dark Side feat, him and Stellan don’t have much that I recall when it comes to Force power. Although Avar never seems to utilize said raw power in anything other than her battle meditation or whatever.
@lightordark: I actually see it the other way around. Anakin is in great danger of being compromised by the Dark Side before they even start his training. If anything they’d be stricter than normal considering his possible Chosen One status.
Interesting. I thought the dogmatic view that he got from Obi Wan, Yoda, and Mace is what eventually made him turn, especially because Palpatine offered him an outlet. Qui Gon, who was less dogmatic, is supposedly the perfect Jedi to train Anakin.
@lightordark: he flew directly in the face of their views and as a result played into Palpatine’s hands. They obviously could’ve done better in helping him process his feelings, but Sidious was just manipulating his emotions to get what he wanted and generally making the situation worse. There was a lot of pressure to keep Anakin from turning and it eventually ended up working against them all because they strived so hard. Elzar isn’t being conned by a master Sith Lord and manipulated from a young age.
no because you see if we take that Yoda quote Avar wins this easily. but in feats she is much better at battle meditation than otherwise and I'm not really seeing her taking this when Mann have the skyisland feats etc.
Stellan, he beat Nib Assek and fought Lourna Dee and Ty Yorrick
Avar, she stomped Lourna but somewhat lost to Keeve Trennis. She also has good statements
Elzar, he lost against Ty in their first encounter but stomped her in their second
R2:
If willing to kill means DS Elzar, it's easily him with the Sky Island feat.
Avar, with the ship feat and her Song of the Force. She also implied she could take the strain from Estala Maru when he was holding Starlight Beacon together. She also has great statements
Stellan with his Emergence feat, he has good statements too.
Elzar with his blast door feat?, he also has great statements though.
R3:
I think Avar takes it overall. If Elzar does go dark side mode he could almost certainly take it though.
A lot of this also depends on if we give a middle ground Elzar by averaging his feats overall between his dark side self and his "normal" feats. If we do that he can probably also take it.
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