Star Killer (Second Game) vs Asajj Ventress
Fight to the Death.
Asajj has her Double-bladed red lightsaber. Galen has two purple lightsabers.
Distance: 15ft away.
Prep: None.
They will fight seriously.
Who wins?
Asajj Ventress vs Galen Marek
Neither has Starkiller. So you have no point.Has she ever lifted a Star Destroyer or anything remotely close to it out of the sky? Nope.
Ventress SLAUGTERHOUSE.
When Starkiller can actually win a duel on pure skill, then we can compare him to someone who has beaten K'Kruhk, Zule Xiss, Sian Jiesel, and hold her own against Anakin, Obi-Wan, Mace Windu, and General Grievous. Ventress would wreck him.
Firstly, is this not Starkiller grabbing a Star Destroyer out of the sky and crashing it with the Force?
But that's me. You're the more knowledgeable Star Wars expert so please enlighten me on how this is a slaughterhouse in Ventress' favor.
Learn the canon classes. This is gameplay, and gameplay is not canon.@Silver2467: Uuuhhhhhh. I'm confused.
Firstly, is this not Starkiller grabbing a Star Destroyer out of the sky and crashing it with the Force?
What actually happened when Starkiller "brought down a Star Destroyer" was shown in the TFU novel and comic. The Star Destroyer was already falling, and Starkiller exhibited all of his power to redirect its descent. Doing so costed all of his concentration and exhausted him to the point of unconsciousness. How is that in any way useful in a fight? Force sensitives have natural Force auras that blunt the effects of Telekinesis from other Force sensitives. Therefore, even if Starkiller did pull down a Star Destroyer, which never happened, it would hardly equate to an instant victory against Ventress. He first has to penetrate her Force aura, and even then, his telekinetic attack would be less powerful than against a target without an innate defense. As well, Ventress has been smashed through walls and fallen monumental heights and survived; so incapacitating or killing her by telekinetic effect would be more difficult because of her durability. Furthermore, Anakin has performed telekinetic feats at the very least equal to Starkiller, and yet he rarely ever defeats Ventress easily with it. The only time he did was when he drew on the dark side and hurled her off a Coruscant skyscraper. So explain to me how it is that Starkiller, who has not pulled down a Star Destroyer, is supposed to easily beat Ventress when she regularly faces a character (Anakin) at least as powerful as Starkiller, who is also faster and a better duelist than Starkiller is, and holds her own.
Obi-Wan has beaten her once or twice at most (I think he won in the TCW show, but I hardly follow that series) in about six or seven total duels. So what? In every other duel Ventress has with Obi-Wan, they were always equals. For that matter, in Obsession, Ventress was beating Obi-Wan. Anakin defeated Ventress by drawing on the dark side to amp his strength, which allowed him to crumble the rock beneath her feet and knock her off a cliff. Mace never owned her at all. She never demonstrated any interest in the fight and was hardly reeling when she left. As for Grievous, Dooku's subordinates seem to make a sport out of fighting one another. And, no, Starkiller would not pose a greater challenge to them than she has. Starkiller is an awful duelist. In every single one of his fights, he was on the losing end in pure skill. He won his duels through circumstantial factors and/or a Force attack. Even Maris Brood was overwhelming him in their duel, and he was forced to shift to a style she was unfamiliar with to compensate.Secondly, Obi-Wan has beaten Ventress on a couple of occasions. Anakin beat Ventress on Yavin 4. Ventress ran away from Windu. And I don't recall Ventress fighting Grievous.So yeah she can stand up to Anakin and Obi-Wan, but Mace Windu kind of owned her. I'm sure if Starkiller fought them he'd be a more challenging match. But that's me. You're the more knowledgeable Star Wars expert so please enlighten me on how this is a slaughterhouse in Ventress' favor.
Ventress is far too skilled and far too fast for Starkiller, and she has her share of power also. She has TK'd Anakin before (and, again, Anakin is of at least comparable power to Starkiller), has hurled trees, has thrown stone columns, has used Lightsaber Throw, and so on. She has what it takes to win here.
@Silver2467 said:
@Fetts said:@Silver2467: I thought cutscenes in video games were cannon.... apparently not.Learn the canon classes. This is gameplay, and gameplay is not canon.
Furthermore, Anakin has performed telekinetic feats at the very least equal to Starkiller, and yet he rarely ever defeats Ventress easily with it. The only time he did was when he drew on the dark side and hurled her off a Coruscant skyscraper. So explain to me how it is that Starkiller, who has not pulled down a Star Destroyer, is supposed to easily beat Ventress when she regularly faces a character (Anakin) at least as powerful as Starkiller, who is also faster and a better duelist than Starkiller is, and holds her own.
And Starkiller has beaten Vader twice. This is also where I get confused because I get mixed responses when I ask if Anakin or Vader is more powerful. But I get the impression you think Anakin is more powerful. And don't you mean when Anakin used the dark side to hurl her off a temple on Yavin 4?
@Silver2467 said:
I thought that Obi-Wan beat her more than once. And I wasn't even aware that they fought that many times. Has Ventress actually beaten Anakin? I'm just curious. Because (despite the fact that he may hold her own for a little while, I usually see her getting overpowered by Anakin in both cartoons. Also didn't Dooku tell Ventress that Windu was responsible for her master's death, and therefore she wanted him to pay? If that is the case I would imagine she would have an interest in fighting Windu.
Obi-Wan has beaten her once in about six or seven total duels. So what? Anakin defeated Ventress by drawing on the dark side to amp his strength, which allowed him to crumble the rock beneath her feet and knock her off a cliff. Mace never owned her at all. She never demonstrated any interest in the fight and was hardly reeling when she left. As for Grievous, Dooku's subordinates seem to make a sport out of fighting one another.
@Silver2467 said:
And, no, Starkiller would not pose a greater challenge to them than she has. Starkiller is an awful duelist. In every single one of his fights, he was on the losing end in pure skill. He won his duels through circumstantial factors and/or a Force attack. Even Maris Brood was overwhelming him in their duel, and he was forced to shift to a style she was unfamiliar with to compensate. Ventress is far too skilled and far too fast for Starkiller, and she has her share of power also. She has TK'd Anakin before (and, again, Anakin is of at least comparable power to Starkiller), has hurled trees, has thrown stone columns, has used Lightsaber Throw, and so on. She has what it takes to win here.
IIRC, doesn't his form (Juyo I believe it is) include using his surroundings and what not? Starkiller has beaten some pretty boss people. He beat Shaak Ti (and wasn't she like the fifth best of the High Jedi Council Members?). And as I recall he did so with a good amount of ease in the comic. He beat Vader twice. Kaazdan and Rahm Kota seemed to be pretty experienced Jedi Masters. But I suppose him having trouble with a noobish Maris Brood isn't a great feat either. So I guess I can somewhat see where you're coming from. I'm still not entirely convinced that this is a slaughterhouse in Ventress' favor but I guess you have convinced me that Starkiller wouldn't annihilate her either.
Cut scenes are canon, but the video you posted was of cinematic gameplay, which is not canon.
I thought cutscenes in video games were cannon.... apparently not.
I never read the novelization for FU2, but in the first FU novel, Starkiller only managed to hold his own against Vader because he knew Vader's fighting style so thoroughly after having trained with him for years. And more than that, Starkiller never beat Vader by skill either. He beat him by hurling objects at him, namely a power generator which exploded when it hit Vader.And Starkiller has beaten Vader twice. This is also where I get confused because I get mixed responses when I ask if Anakin or Vader is more powerful. But I get the impression you think Anakin is more powerful. And don't you mean when Anakin used the dark side to hurl her off a temple on Yavin 4?
And, no, he never directly hurled her off the temple. He slammed his lightsaber on her until the stone beneath her gave way.
Not that I know of, but I have never seen Anakin beat Ventress without drawing on the dark side. Do I believe he could beat her outright under his standard ability? Sure. Easily? Not at all. And even when he uses the dark side against her, he never wins easily.Has Ventress actually beaten Anakin? I'm just curious. Because (despite the fact that he may hold her own for a little while, I usually see her getting overpowered by Anakin in both cartoons.
What? Have you read Republic? Ventress' master never died because of Windu. He died fighting in battle on Rattatak.Also didn't Dooku tell Ventress that Windu was responsible for her master's death, and therefore she wanted him to pay? If that is the case I would imagine she would have an interest in fighting Windu.
Not that I know of. Juyo is direct. It just involves nonstop lightsaber attack.IIRC, doesn't his form (Juyo I believe it is) include using his surroundings and what not?
Eh, no. I have no idea what this is based on. There are several Council Members with better feats than Shaak. In fact, as far as Council members are concerned, she has among the least feats.Starkiller has beaten some pretty boss people. He beat Shaak Ti (and wasn't she like the fifth best of the High Jedi Council Members?).
Because in the comic, their duel was never even shown. He did not win with ease against Shaak at all. In fact, she was winning in the duel, as per Starkiller's usual combat performance. He won because she threw herself at him when she attempted to land three final strikes and ended up impaled on his lightsaber.And as I recall he did so with a good amount of ease in the comic.
Let's not pretend this is valid in any way or even applicable to other characters. As I said, Starkiller is familiar with Vader's fighting form. That allows him to challenge Vader with greater skill than another duelist would, and at least in the first TFU, he never won by skill either.He beat Vader twice.
LOL, are you serious? Kota was beating Starkiller. Starkiller only defeated him by first bursting out Lightning (which Kota summarily withstood and then continued fighting) and then because Kota had a vision, which distracted him long enough for Starkiller to slash him in the eyes and throw him out of the station. Paratus was a joke, and so was Starkiller's duel with him. Not only was Starkiller again losing in the duel portion of his fight with Paratus, but once he created distance between himself and Kazdan, Kazdan telekinetically manipulated mannequins of Jedi Council members to assault Starkiller. However, Paratus was by that point so insane that he thought the mannequins were the genuine Council members. So when Starkiller cut the mannequins apart, Paratus just started crying. After that, he never even fought back again, and Starkiller just used the Force to kill him.Kaazdan and Rahm Kota seemed to be pretty experienced Jedi Masters.
It is a slaughterhouse. Starkiller has never beaten anyone of merit barring Vader, and furthermore, no one he has fought besides Vader is even as powerful or as skilled as Ventress. And as I described, his fight with Vader fails to translate to this anyway.But I suppose him having trouble with a noobish Maris Brood isn't a great feat either. So I guess I can somewhat see where you're coming from. I'm still not entirely convinced that this is a slaughterhouse in Ventress' favor but I guess you have convinced me that Starkiller wouldn't annihilate her either.
So, no, Ventress is still too skilled for him.
Starkiller fought and defeated Vader, then went on to give the Emperor a good match. That takes more skill and talent than I believe Ventress has, though I admit I am not too knowledgeable about Ventress since most of what I know about her is from the first Clone Wars cartoon, lol.. And I read somewhere (and later saw it was on Wookieepedia as well) that Ventress was defeated by General Grievous despite being assisted by Durge in Clone Wars Adventures: Volume 3. If she still got knocked out by Grievous despite having Durge's help, I don't think she can take someone as strong as Starkiller.
No disrespect, but there is so much wrong here, it's painful.Starkiller fought and defeated Vader, then went on to give the Emperor a good match. That takes more skill and talent than I believe Ventress has, though I admit I am not too knowledgeable about Ventress since most of what I know about her is from the first Clone Wars cartoon, lol.. And I read somewhere (and later saw it was on Wookieepedia as well) that Ventress was defeated by General Grievous despite being assisted by Durge in Clone Wars Adventures: Volume 3. If she still got knocked out by Grievous despite having Durge's help, I don't think she can take someone as strong as Starkiller.
As I have repeated multiple times, Starkiller never beat Vader in a duel. He won by hurling a power generator at him, which exploded on impact with Vader. And the only reason Starkiller could hold his own against Vader was because of how knowledgeable he was on Vader's combat form. As for fighting Palpatine, this never happened the way the game depicts. Starkiller never dueled Palpatine. The only "fight" that transpired between Starkiller and Sidious was Palpatine first firing Lightning at Starkiller, then Starkiller returning an attack against him telekinetically. After that, Palpatine just starts cackling and attempts to goad Starkiller into killing him. The entire fight was clearly staged. Once Starkiller declined his offer to kill him, Palpatine jumped to his feet again and fired off Lightning at Kota. Then when Starkiller intercepted it, he survived the Lightning long enough to die, and when he released the energy burst that tore apart the whole observation dome, Sidious and Vader were unharmed by it. How is that giving Palpatine a fight? Furthermore, sourcebooks have outright stated that Starkiller was not a match for Palpatine in raw power.
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As well, there really is a problem of writing when Palpatine is so stupid that he can't even figure out that he should shoot Lightning at Starkiller instead of Kota. Seriously, why attack Kota? Starkiller is the one he was tempting toward the dark side. Blasting Lightning at him seems like it would serve that end fairly well. But not only did fire Lightning at Kota, when Starkiller walked toward Palpatine and placed his hand on Sidious' shoulder, the Lightning coursed into Palpatine, and he was shocking himself. Again, why is Palpatine all of a sudden so stupid that he is willing to not only fight the wrong target but hurt himself? Also, if Palpatine wanted Starkiller to accept the dark side, why not just assume command of his mind the way he did to Kam Solusar? Sidious can and has corrupted people with the Force and compelled them to join him. He even did this to Luke to a minor degree in Dark Empire. As well, if Starkiller is marching toward him, resisting the Lightning barrage, why could Palpatine not have just released a telekinetic attack? Or ran too fast for Starkiller to even see him? Or Drained him? He suddenly forgot all of his powers (since apparently he was intent on downing Starkiller once Starkiller moved into the path of his Lightning), but he was too dense to remember his own skills. And yet despite the writing of the story making Palpatine a complete moron, Starkiller was still incapable of actually posing a threat to him, even after destroying the entire chamber upon his death.
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So, no. Even when Sidious was apparently having thought impairment issues, Starkiller could not give Palpatine a good match.
As for Ventress and Durge in Clone Wars Adventures, you should read the issue yourself. The entire comic was written terribly. Grievous conceivably could beat Ventress. Even Dooku has stated that he considers Grievous the best duelist out of his underlings, but the way he beat Ventress in that comic was pathetic. Ventress managed to disarm Grievous; so technically speaking, she outfought him. But then after being disarmed, he somehow rushes her and chokes her out? How does that work? That aside, Grievous is a considerably better duelist than Starkiller is; so even if that showing was valid, it hardly verifies the idea that Starkiller could beat Ventress anyway.
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Ventress still wins.
@Silver2467 said:
"As I have repeated multiple times, Starkiller never beat Vader in a duel. He won by hurling a power generator at him, which exploded on impact with Vader. And the only reason Starkiller could hold his own against Vader was because of how knowledgeable he was on Vader's combat form. As for fighting Palpatine, this never happened the way the game depicts. Starkiller never dueled Palpatine. The only "fight" that transpired between Starkiller and Sidious was Palpatine first firing Lightning at Starkiller, then Starkiller returning an attack against him telekinetically. After that, Palpatine just starts cackling and attempts to goad Starkiller into killing him. The entire fight was clearly staged. Once Starkiller declined his offer to kill him, Palpatine jumped to his feet again and fired off Lightning at Kota. Then when Starkiller intercepted it, he survived the Lightning long enough to die, and when he released the energy burst that tore apart the whole observation dome, Sidious and Vader were unharmed by it. How is that giving Palpatine a fight? Furthermore, sourcebooks have outright stated that Starkiller was not a match for Palpatine in raw power.
http://media.comicvine.com/uploads/4/48765/1978003-jxm_s_dream_come_true.jpg"
What matters to me is that at the end of both games, Starkiller in one form or another won his end game battle against Darth Vader. How he did it hardly matters to me since it is still a victory. And be fair to Vader: he trained Starkiller since he was a boy in the first game and oversaw his training in the second. Vader definitely knew many of Starkiller's techniques in their battles.
And there was definitely a fight between Starkiller and the Emperor. What happened in that fight in mostly unknown since the gameplay offers dozens of possible variations. I believe the Emperor was holding back just as he was against Mace Windu in Episode III though, which is how Starkiller was able to get the Emperor on the floor in front of him for the cutscene. The Emperor did want Starkiller to turn after all, which is more likely to happen in a drawn out battle than in a fight where the Emperor defeats Starkiller. I do believe Starkiller could give the Emperor a good fight but there is still a sizable gap between the two. Still, I doubt the Emperor was holding too much back just out of caution. Starkiller did get through Vader after all.
And on the Force Lightning interception, is that not an impressive feat? It strangely mirrors the Force struggle between the Emperor and Yoda in their duel, though the outcome is obviously different due to Starkiller being weaker than Yoda. Has Ventress done anything comparable with the Force? You seem to know your stuff so any images/footage would be a nice bonus.
"As well, there really is a problem of writing when Palpatine is so stupid that he can't even figure out that he should shoot Lightning at Starkiller instead of Kota. Seriously, why attack Kota? Starkiller is the one he was tempting toward the dark side. Blasting Lightning at him seems like it would serve that end fairly well. But not only did fire Lightning at Kota, when Starkiller walked toward Palpatine and placed his hand on Sidious' shoulder, the Lightning coursed into Palpatine, and he was shocking himself. Again, why is Palpatine all of a sudden so stupid that he is willing to not only fight the wrong target but hurt himself? Also, if Palpatine wanted Starkiller to accept the dark side, why not just assume command of his mind the way he did to Kam Solusar? Sidious can and has corrupted people with the Force and compelled them to join him. He even did this to Luke to a minor degree in Dark Empire. As well, if Starkiller is marching toward him, resisting the Lightning barrage, why could Palpatine not have just released a telekinetic attack? Or ran too fast for Starkiller to even see him? Or Drained him? He suddenly forgot all of his powers (since apparently he was intent on downing Starkiller once Starkiller moved into the path of his Lightning), but he was too dense to remember his own skills. And yet despite the writing of the story making Palpatine a complete moron, Starkiller was still incapable of actually posing a threat to him, even after destroying the entire chamber upon his death.
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Starkiller was struggling to contain his anger when Kota began speaking to him. The Emperor likely had the idea of torturing Kota with Force Lightning to unleash that anger. Stopping Kota would also be a smart move since Starkiller was tired and could be dealt with at any time. Starkiller certainly did not want to leave as Kota did. I'm not sure if you have ever played Knights of the Old Republic 2 but a droid named HK-47 gives an excellent piece of dialogue. He tells the protagonist that when fighting Jedi, sometimes it is best to attack the Jedi through the people around him, like shooting at civilians to mentally distort the Jedi. That could easily tie into the Emperor's game plan (injure friends = unleash anger).
As for the Emperor shocking himself and developing a slight case of amnesia in regards to his other powers, I have not the slightest clue. I'd love to chalk it up to terrible writing since I dislike the Force Unleashed games and like taking shots at them. So let's do that.
"As for Ventress and Durge in Clone Wars Adventures, you should read the issue yourself. The entire comic was written terribly. Grievous conceivably could beat Ventress. Even Dooku has stated that he considers Grievous the best duelist out of his underlings, but the way he beat Ventress in that comic was pathetic. Ventress managed to disarm Grievous; so technically speaking, she outfought him. But then after being disarmed, he somehow rushes her and chokes her out? How does that work? That aside, Grievous is a considerably better duelist than Starkiller is; so even if that showing was valid, it hardly verifies the idea that Starkiller could beat Ventress anyway.
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Ventress should get a strap for her lightsabers if a hand around the throat is enough to make her drop them. I'm wondering why Ventress has a look of surprise in the second picture of the image I left in. Was she surprised by Grievous standing up or was that her reaction to Grievous throwing the creature at her, then capitalizing on her dodge? I'm not even sure if he threw it at her but I'll chalk it up as a possibility.
It does matter how he won, because you listed that as a feat for Starkiller as if it translates to this battle, and based on how that played out, it really doesn't. In every other duel, Starkiller was on the losing end, and none of the other characters he was losing to are anywhere near as skilled as Vader. That should tell you something.What matters to me is that at the end of both games, Starkiller in one form or another won his end game battle against Darth Vader. How he did it hardly matters to me since it is still a victory. And be fair to Vader: he trained Starkiller since he was a boy in the first game and oversaw his training in the second. Vader definitely knew many of Starkiller's techniques in their battles.
What happened is not unknown. I am going to repeat again, and hopefully this is understood this time: Gameplay is not canon. What the player can decide on with the controls can never be canon because otherwise, there is no conclusive information on certain sequences. This is why we have the novel and comic of TFU, because those convey what canonically happened. So, no, there was a very brief fight between Starkiller and Palpatine, and Palpatine held back the entire time. And, no, Starkiller could never pose a real challenge to Palpatine. If it came to a duel between them, Starkiller would never even be able to see Palpatine, much less return an attack against him.And there was definitely a fight between Starkiller and the Emperor. What happened in that fight in mostly unknown since the gameplay offers dozens of possible variations. I believe the Emperor was holding back just as he was against Mace Windu in Episode III though, which is how Starkiller was able to get the Emperor on the floor in front of him for the cutscene. The Emperor did want Starkiller to turn after all, which is more likely to happen in a drawn out battle than in a fight where the Emperor defeats Starkiller. I do believe Starkiller could give the Emperor a good fight but there is still a sizable gap between the two. Still, I doubt the Emperor was holding too much back just out of caution. Starkiller did get through Vader after all.
Is it impressive? From a certain perspective, maybe. Is it useful in a fight? Unless you consider dying from performing a feat useful, no. And I listed what Ventress has done with the Force in one of my replies to Fetts.And on the Force Lightning interception, is that not an impressive feat? It strangely mirrors the Force struggle between the Emperor and Yoda in their duel, though the outcome is obviously different due to Starkiller being weaker than Yoda. Has Ventress done anything comparable with the Force? You seem to know your stuff so any images/footage would be a nice bonus.
I have played KOTOR 2, and I am fairly sure that Atton was the one who said that. And in the context of his statement, I believe he was talking about how non-Force sensitives should fight Force sensitives, not how Force sensitives should fight one another. Palpatine is already more powerful Starkiller and Kota combined. He could strike both simultaneously for all it matters (remember that Lightning feat he performed in the Empire story arc Betrayal? That would have been useful here). I can see your point, but regardless of interpretation, Palpatine was still too dense to actually fight competently.Starkiller was struggling to contain his anger when Kota began speaking to him. The Emperor likely had the idea of torturing Kota with Force Lightning to unleash that anger. Stopping Kota would also be a smart move since Starkiller was tired and could be dealt with at any time. Starkiller certainly did not want to leave as Kota did. I'm not sure if you have ever played Knights of the Old Republic 2 but a droid named HK-47 gives an excellent piece of dialogue. He tells the protagonist that when fighting Jedi, sometimes it is best to attack the Jedi through the people around him, like shooting at civilians to mentally distort the Jedi. That could easily tie into the Emperor's game plan (injure friends = unleash anger).
More or less everything in that story arc is terrible writing, from Shaak Ti releasing a Dark Side Burst to Rahm Kota, a Jedi, joining the Rebellion.As for the Emperor shocking himself and developing a slight case of amnesia in regards to his other powers, I have not the slightest clue. I'd love to chalk it up to terrible writing since I dislike the Force Unleashed games and like taking shots at them. So let's do that.
The comic was poorly written. That was my point.Ventress should get a strap for her lightsabers if a hand around the throat is enough to make her drop them. I'm wondering why Ventress has a look of surprise in the second picture of the image I left in. Was she surprised by Grievous standing up or was that her reaction to Grievous throwing the creature at her, then capitalizing on her dodge? I'm not even sure if he threw it at her but I'll chalk it up as a possibility.
@Silver2467 said:
@Fetts said:
Cut scenes are canon, but the video you posted was of cinematic gameplay, which is not canon.
I thought cutscenes in video games were cannon.... apparently not.
My mistake.
@Silver2467 said:
I never read the novelization for FU2, but in the first FU novel, Starkiller only managed to hold his own against Vader because he knew Vader's fighting style so thoroughly after having trained with him for years. And more than that, Starkiller never beat Vader by skill either. He beat him by hurling objects at him, namely a power generator which exploded when it hit Vader.And Starkiller has beaten Vader twice. This is also where I get confused because I get mixed responses when I ask if Anakin or Vader is more powerful. But I get the impression you think Anakin is more powerful. And don't you mean when Anakin used the dark side to hurl her off a temple on Yavin 4?
And, no, he never directly hurled her off the temple. He slammed his lightsaber on her until the stone beneath her gave way.
Yeah I haven't read either of the novels so I'm pretty much basing my facts on the video game. And also you would think that getting trained by Vader for a decade or two would give him a good amount of skills.
I thought that was what you were talking about because I don't recall him hurling her off a skyscraper.
@Silver2467 said:
He has actually beaten Ventress without drawing himself into the dark side before. He did so on Kamino (it was in the newer cartton, which I don't watch that often, but the title ARC Troopers caught my attention). At the same time I guess a case could be made for Ventress. Her goal was to get out alive with the clone DNA and not fighting Anakin. But then again it didn't appear that she really had an escape plan and it was just by luck that Grievous's escape shuttle was passing by.
Not that I know of, but I have never seen Anakin beat Ventress without drawing on the dark side. Do I believe he could beat her outright under his standard ability? Sure. Easily? Not at all. And even when he uses the dark side against her, he never wins easily.Has Ventress actually beaten Anakin? I'm just curious. Because (despite the fact that he may hold her own for a little while, I usually see her getting overpowered by Anakin in both cartoons.
@Silver2467 said:
I'm aware of that. I figured that Dooku was just lying which would still give her motivation....somehow...I guess? It confused me as well. I will quote what he said.
What? Have you read Republic? Ventress' master never died because of Windu. He died fighting in battle on Rattatak.Also didn't Dooku tell Ventress that Windu was responsible for her master's death, and therefore she wanted him to pay? If that is the case I would imagine she would have an interest in fighting Windu.
"...You should know, Ventress, that Windu was chief among those responsible for abandoning your Master Ky Narec."-Dooku
"Then he is faithless and deserves to die."-Ventress
@Silver2467 said:
It appears that I don't remember correctly then.
Not that I know of. Juyo is direct. It just involves nonstop lightsaber attack.IIRC, doesn't his form (Juyo I believe it is) include using his surroundings and what not?
Eh, no. I have no idea what this is based on. There are several Council Members with better feats than Shaak. In fact, as far as Council members are concerned, she has among the least feats.Starkiller has beaten some pretty boss people. He beat Shaak Ti (and wasn't she like the fifth best of the High Jedi Council Members?).
I'm talking about the twelve High Jedi Council Members that sit in the council chamber. She seemed to have good feats from the 2003 cartoon. Better then what I remember seeing from most High Jedi Council Members such as Kit Fisto or Plo Koon.
@Silver2467 said:
I read that comic years ago. It's what I recall from the comic but I suppose I could be wrong. I'll try to find scans of the fight.
Because in the comic, their duel was never even shown. He did not win with ease against Shaak at all. In fact, she was winning in the duel, as per Starkiller's usual combat performance. He won because she threw herself at him when she attempted to land three final strikes and ended up impaled on his lightsaber.And as I recall he did so with a good amount of ease in the comic.
@Silver2467 said:
Again I'm basing my facts from Starkiller from the video game and the comic (at least from what I remember from it). I never read about Starkiller knowing Vader's lightsaber was the reason why he beat him from the novel.
Let's not pretend this is valid in any way or even applicable to other characters. As I said, Starkiller is familiar with Vader's fighting form. That allows him to challenge Vader with greater skill than another duelist would, and at least in the first TFU, he never won by skill either.He beat Vader twice.
@Silver2467 said:
Again I'm basing my facts off the video games. But it seemed to me it was more of Starkiller getting mad about Rahm Kota telling him he's going to betray Vader is the reason why Starkiller was able to burn his eyes, rather than Rahn Kota getting distracted from the vision. And your right that his mental illness would probably have an affect on him. But I recall Vader stating that (despite the mental illness) that Starkiller would most likely not defeat Paratus because he was too dangerous. And while you do have a point about Starkiller didn't use skill to defeat his enemies and he used the Force, it almost sounds like that you think of him using it is a cheap shot. I don't know if that is the case, and of course I could be wrong, but it's the impression that I get.
LOL, are you serious? Kota was beating Starkiller. Starkiller only defeated him by first bursting out Lightning (which Kota summarily withstood and then continued fighting) and then because Kota had a vision, which distracted him long enough for Starkiller to slash him in the eyes and throw him out of the station. Paratus was a joke, and so was Starkiller's duel with him. Not only was Starkiller again losing in the duel portion of his fight with Paratus, but once he created distance between himself and Kazdan, Kazdan telekinetically manipulated mannequins of Jedi Council members to assault Starkiller. However, Paratus was by that point so insane that he thought the mannequins were the genuine Council members. So when Starkiller cut the mannequins apart, Paratus just started crying. After that, he never even fought back again, and Starkiller just used the Force to kill him.Kaazdan and Rahm Kota seemed to be pretty experienced Jedi Masters.
@Silver2467 said:
Hhhmmm...it seems I need to read the novel to actually get a better grasp of Starkiller.
It is a slaughterhouse. Starkiller has never beaten anyone of merit barring Vader, and furthermore, no one he has fought besides Vader is even as powerful or as skilled as Ventress. And as I described, his fight with Vader fails to translate to this anyway. So, no, Ventress is still too skilled for him.But I suppose him having trouble with a noobish Maris Brood isn't a great feat either. So I guess I can somewhat see where you're coming from. I'm still not entirely convinced that this is a slaughterhouse in Ventress' favor but I guess you have convinced me that Starkiller wouldn't annihilate her either.
The skyscraper instance was in Republic. It was the reason that Anakin believed she was dead in Obsession.I thought that was what you were talking about because I don't recall him hurling her off a skyscraper.
I have never seen this; so there is nothing I can really say about it. However, just because Anakin could beat Ventress, that in no way constitutes proof that Starkiller could do the same given that Anakin is far faster and a far better duelist than Starkiller is.He has actually beaten Ventress without drawing himself into the dark side before. He did so on Kamino (it was in the newer cartton, which I don't watch that often, but the title ARC Troopers caught my attention). At the same time I guess a case could be made for Ventress. Her goal was to get out alive with the clone DNA and not fighting Anakin. But then again it didn't appear that she really had an escape plan and it was just by luck that Grievous's escape shuttle was passing by.
This was from the TCW cartoon? If so, even if that is true (maybe it is), it does nothing to invalidate what I said about the circumstances of Ventress' duel with Mace.I'm aware of that. I figured that Dooku was just lying which would still give her motivation....somehow...I guess? It confused me as well. I will quote what he said.
"...You should know, Ventress, that Windu was chief among those responsible for abandoning your Master Ky Narec."-Dooku
"Then he is faithless and deserves to die."-Ventress
Yes, I know who you were talking about, and no, it still isn't true. Fisto and Koon's feats blow Shaak's out of the water. Read Labyrinth of Evil, Jedi Council Acts of War, The Stark Hyperspace War arc in Republic, and Clone Wars Adventures, as a few examples (there are also others such as The Cestus Deception).I'm talking about the twelve High Jedi Council Members that sit in the council chamber. She seemed to have good feats from the 2003 cartoon. Better then what I remember seeing from most High Jedi Council Members such as Kit Fisto or Plo Koon.
It is a cheap shot when the only reason Starkiller manages to beat them is a distraction or their unwillingness to fight. Kota stopped fighting when he had a vision; Paratus stopped fighting when he started crying about the mannequins being slashed apart. Those two circumstances were what allowed Starkiller to win. Otherwise, in both encounters, Starkiller was losing the duel.Again I'm basing my facts off the video games. But it seemed to me it was more of Starkiller getting mad about Rahm Kota telling him he's going to betray Vader is the reason why Starkiller was able to burn his eyes, rather than Rahn Kota getting distracted from the vision. And your right that his mental illness would probably have an affect on him. But I recall Vader stating that (despite the mental illness) that Starkiller would most likely not defeat Paratus because he was too dangerous. And while you do have a point about Starkiller didn't use skill to defeat his enemies and he used the Force, it almost sounds like that you think of him using it is a cheap shot. I don't know if that is the case, and of course I could be wrong, but it's the impression that I get.
Ventress
@Fetts said:Ah. I see. I should get Obsession. I only saw a part of it in a scan and it looked good.The skyscraper instance was in Republic. It was the reason that Anakin believed she was dead in Obsession.I thought that was what you were talking about because I don't recall him hurling her off a skyscraper.
@Silver2467 said:
It wasn't meant to be be proof.I have never seen this; so there is nothing I can really say about it. However, just because Anakin could beat Ventress, that in no way constitutes proof that Starkiller could do the same given that Anakin is far faster and a far better duelist than Starkiller is.He has actually beaten Ventress without drawing himself into the dark side before. He did so on Kamino (it was in the newer cartton, which I don't watch that often, but the title ARC Troopers caught my attention). At the same time I guess a case could be made for Ventress. Her goal was to get out alive with the clone DNA and not fighting Anakin. But then again it didn't appear that she really had an escape plan and it was just by luck that Grievous's escape shuttle was passing by.
@Silver2467 said:
No it was in Schism. Right after Ventress slashed some creature's head off. I didn't bother scanning it. Maybe I will later. But doesn't kind of mean Ventress did run away because Mace was too good? Ventress wanted Mace to pay because Ventress gets the impression that Mace was one of the people who abandoned her master and she says that Mace should pay. When they fight, Mace clearly has the upper hand and she kind of admits he is better.This was from the TCW cartoon? If so, even if that is true (maybe it is), it does nothing to invalidate what I said about the circumstances of Ventress' duel with Mace.I'm aware of that. I figured that Dooku was just lying which would still give her motivation....somehow...I guess? It confused me as well. I will quote what he said.
"...You should know, Ventress, that Windu was chief among those responsible for abandoning your Master Ky Narec."-Dooku
"Then he is faithless and deserves to die."-Ventress
"Do not assume, however, that we are equals. We are not. Neither your weapon nor your skills are enough. I prefer you alive to answer my questions, but I will kill you if you insist. Please believe that."-Mace
"Oh, I have no doubt. Which leaves me one option. Live to fight another day."-Ventress
That sounds like her running away rather than her displaying no interest. But anyways, this is a getting too off-topic.
The only one I have of that is Cestus Deception. I got bored in the first chapter but if you say that they (I don't believe Plo Koon was in it but if you say he is, then I guess he is) have better feats than Shaak Ti in the cartoon, I suppose it's worth reading.
Yes, I know who you were talking about, and no, it still isn't true. Fisto and Koon's feats blow Shaak's out of the water. Read Labyrinth of Evil, Jedi Council Acts of War, The Stark Hyperspace War arc in Republic, and Clone Wars Adventures, as a few examples (there are also others such as The Cestus Deception).I'm talking about the twelve High Jedi Council Members that sit in the council chamber. She seemed to have good feats from the 2003 cartoon. Better then what I remember seeing from most High Jedi Council Members such as Kit Fisto or Plo Koon.
@Silver2467 said:
It is a cheap shot when the only reason Starkiller manages to beat them is a distraction or their unwillingness to fight. Kota stopped fighting when he had a vision; Paratus stopped fighting when he started crying about the mannequins being slashed apart. Those two circumstances were what allowed Starkiller to win. Otherwise, in both encounters, Starkiller was losing the duel.Again I'm basing my facts off the video games. But it seemed to me it was more of Starkiller getting mad about Rahm Kota telling him he's going to betray Vader is the reason why Starkiller was able to burn his eyes, rather than Rahn Kota getting distracted from the vision. And your right that his mental illness would probably have an affect on him. But I recall Vader stating that (despite the mental illness) that Starkiller would most likely not defeat Paratus because he was too dangerous. And while you do have a point about Starkiller didn't use skill to defeat his enemies and he used the Force, it almost sounds like that you think of him using it is a cheap shot. I don't know if that is the case, and of course I could be wrong, but it's the impression that I get.
Again I'm basing my facts off the video games. When he fought Kota, Kota states that Starkiller is stronger than he thought, which would show he is struggling with him. And Paratus needed to make droid titans to fight him off, but that's technically not cannon.
Ah. I see. I should get Obsession. I only saw a part of it in a scan and it looked good.You should read Republic as a whole.
No it was in Schism. Right after Ventress slashed some creature's head off. I didn't bother scanning it. Maybe I will later. But doesn't kind of mean Ventress did run away because Mace was too good? Ventress wanted Mace to pay because Ventress gets the impression that Mace was one of the people who abandoned her master and she says that Mace should pay. When they fight, Mace clearly has the upper hand and she kind of admits he is better.I will take your word for that because I have no recollection of it. And I never said she didn't run away. I said she held her own against him without showing too much interest in the fight in the first place, which is true. He was better, but then, Anakin is better than she is too. And she repeatedly holds her own against him.
"Do not assume, however, that we are equals. We are not. Neither your weapon nor your skills are enough. I prefer you alive to answer my questions, but I will kill you if you insist. Please believe that."-Mace
"Oh, I have no doubt. Which leaves me one option. Live to fight another day."-Ventress
That sounds like her running away rather than her displaying no interest. But anyways, this is a getting too off-topic.
The only one I have of that is Cestus Deception. I got bored in the first chapter but if you say that they (I don't believe Plo Koon was in it but if you say he is, then I guess he is) have better feats than Shaak Ti in the cartoon, I suppose it's worth reading.I never said Koon was in The Cestus Deception, but Fisto is.
Not going to derail this thread by listing feats for Koon or Fisto, but I have read just about every appearance Shaak Ti has. Nothing she has done outweighs Fisto and especially not Koon.
Again I'm basing my facts off the video games. When he fought Kota, Kota states that Starkiller is stronger than he thought, which would show he is struggling with him. And Paratus needed to make droid titans to fight him off, but that's technically not cannon.Starkiller is more powerful than Kota is, and besides that, Kota never expected Starkiller to be a challenge. He even mocked Starkiller for his age because he anticipated Vader himself to confront him, rather than send a young Dark Jedi. But Kota was still winning.
Well you said this which kinda threw me off:
No it was in Schism. Right after Ventress slashed some creature's head off. I didn't bother scanning it. Maybe I will later. But doesn't kind of mean Ventress did run away because Mace was too good? Ventress wanted Mace to pay because Ventress gets the impression that Mace was one of the people who abandoned her master and she says that Mace should pay. When they fight, Mace clearly has the upper hand and she kind of admits he is better.I will take your word for that because I have no recollection of it. And I never said she didn't run away. I said she held her own against him without showing too much interest in the fight in the first place, which is true. He was better, but then, Anakin is better than she is too. And she repeatedly holds her own against him.
"Do not assume, however, that we are equals. We are not. Neither your weapon nor your skills are enough. I prefer you alive to answer my questions, but I will kill you if you insist. Please believe that."-Mace
"Oh, I have no doubt. Which leaves me one option. Live to fight another day."-Ventress
That sounds like her running away rather than her displaying no interest. But anyways, this is a getting too off-topic.
"Mace never owned her at all. She never demonstrated any interest in the fight and was hardly reeling when she left."
I was just proving that Asajj ran away because Mace was too powerful for her and not because she didn't have any interest in fighting him (which she did). But again it 's off-topic.
@Silver2467 said:
I thought so.The only one I have of that is Cestus Deception. I got bored in the first chapter but if you say that they (I don't believe Plo Koon was in it but if you say he is, then I guess he is) have better feats than Shaak Ti in the cartoon, I suppose it's worth reading.I never said Koon was in The Cestus Deception, but Fisto is.
Not going to derail this thread by listing feats for Koon or Fisto, but I have read just about every appearance Shaak Ti has. Nothing she has done outweighs Fisto and especially not Koon.
I didn't expect you to.
Well you said this which kinda threw me off:I still am not really convinced she was interested in fighting him in the first place. If you notice her attitude toward Mace when she dueled him, it was effectively the same as it was when she dueled the Jedi whom she turned to the dark side, and that was one of condescension and lack of intrigue. And what I said about her not reeling was true too. She left, sure, and, yes, she would have lost. But Mace landed no hits and was the one pressing the attack. She dueled him for a time and left. That was all.
"Mace never owned her at all. She never demonstrated any interest in the fight and was hardly reeling when she left."
I was just proving that Asajj ran away because Mace was too powerful for her and not because she didn't have any interest in fighting him (which she did). But again it 's off-topic.
@Fetts said:I still think she was just because she got the impression from Dooku that Mace was one person who was responsible for her master's abandonment and the fact that she said that he deserves to die. Maybe she didn't show intrigue but I'd still imagine she would have interest under that impression. But I guess we'll just have to agree to disagree.Well you said this which kinda threw me off:I still am not really convinced she was interested in fighting him in the first place. If you notice her attitude toward Mace when she dueled him, it was effectively the same as it was when she dueled the Jedi whom she turned to the dark side, and that was one of condescension and lack of intrigue. And what I said about her not reeling was true too. She left, sure, and, yes, she would have lost. But Mace landed no hits and was the one pressing the attack. She dueled him for a time and left. That was all.
"Mace never owned her at all. She never demonstrated any interest in the fight and was hardly reeling when she left."
I was just proving that Asajj ran away because Mace was too powerful for her and not because she didn't have any interest in fighting him (which she did). But again it 's off-topic.
@silentbat: You might just be a little late to the party, don't you think?
Galen mops the floor with Ventress. The only thing she has him in is dueling; Galen is the far stronger in the Force, and is also faster and physically stronger.
@dccomicsrule2011: Galen was losing to Shaak Ti, whom Ventress would destroy.
Galen is not stomping. Not even close.
That was at the beginning of TFU, it was stated Galen gotten more powerful after each and every duel IIRC.
Over and above all this, Galen has the Force feats that suggest he could defeat Ventress if given the chance.
Also, I would love to know where I stated Galen would stomp Ventress.
@dccomicsrule2011: I'm pretty sure that it was only stated once. And that it was stated before he engaged in a fight - in a struggle, I should say, with Maris Brood, who, again, would be beaten by Ventress.
@intrepid37: I thought that was sated towards the end of the novel? But, whatever.
Regardless, Galen can win if he get's a chance to use the Force against Ventress. Just saying Ventress can beat the opponents Galen did is not really a strong argument when the same could be said vise-versa. When looking at advantages, the only thing Ventress has on Galen is dueling. Nearly everthing else is in Galan's favor.
Thing is, I never said that. I said that opponents equal to Marek would be beaten by Ventress. Which is true. On the other hand, you're claiming that Marek's edge in the Force is going to prove vital... even though he never overpowered Shaak Ti and almost lost to her in their duel? Even though he beat Kota through lasting longer, not through Force usage? Even though he initially was losing to Paratus and only beat him because Paratus was borderline insane and didn't fight back after his psuedo-Jedi mannequins were destroyed by Galen? Even though he never gained any advantage over Maris and only won because he fought with a style unknown to her? Even though Ventress is comparably powerful to all of those names and more skilled?
Thing is, I never said that. I said that opponents equal to Marek would be beaten by Ventress. Which is true.
Actually you never said that at all. The only thing you stated is that Ventress would beat both Shaak Ti and Maris Brood. What other conclusion was I to draw?
On the other hand, you're claiming that Marek's edge in the Force is going to prove vital...
It did against Darth Vader. That along with his speed advantage, as well as his familiarity with Vader's style, which, should have been a double-edged sword in my opinion.
even though he never overpowered Shaak Ti and almost lost to her in their duel?
In the end he won, didn't he? The only reason he hung around for that long was because of his strength in the Force.
Even though he beat Kota through lasting longer, not through Force usage?
Meh. I'll give you that one.
Even though he initially was losing to Paratus and only beat him because Paratus was borderline insane and didn't fight back after his psuedo-Jedi mannequins were destroyed by Galen?
Who's to say Paratus wasn't powerful in the Force to the point Galen couldn't beat him with the Force? Remember, feats only show what a characters has done, not what a characters can and can't do.
Even though he never gained any advantage over Maris and only won because he fought with a style unknown to her? Even though Ventress is comparably powerful to all of those names and more skilled?
I find that funny because, apparently, the guys over at Star wars Insider think Maris Brood would beat Ventress if they ever dueled. Yes, it's just their opinion, but it should hold some kind of weight seeing as how they have some authority over the characters.
Remember, feats only show what a characters has done, not what a characters can and can't do.
Interesting. I remember debating this with Nova a while back. He was saying that because Savage Opress had been tripped up by the Jedi Judd (who has virtually no feats), that Kyle Katarn would have similar success due to the fact he is superior to Judd in every way. I countered that we have no real way of knowing just how capable Judd is. He could be better or worse than Katarn. All we know is that Judd was able to trip up Savage. That's his own personal feat, and unless Katarn has done something himself to suggest he can trip up Savage or find similar success, you can't simply say that because a featless character did it, Katarn can too.
I don't know if Nova genuinely believed in that logic or if he was just playing devils advocate. I'm just glad someone agrees with me.
@i_like_swords said:
Interesting. I remember debating this with Nova a while back. He was saying that because Savage Opress had been tripped up by the Jedi Judd (who has virtually no feats), that Kyle Katarn would have similar success due to the fact he is superior to Judd in every way. I countered that we have no real way of knowing just how capable Judd is. He could be better or worse than Katarn. All we know is that Judd was able to trip up Savage. That's his own personal feat, and unless Katarn has done something himself to suggest he can trip up Savage or find similar success, you can't simply say that because a featless character did it, Katarn can too.
I don't know if Nova genuinely believed in that logic or if he was just playing devils advocate. I'm just glad someone agrees with me.
I want more Judd! Awesome reptilian looking Jedi Master! I feel like he also was a very powerful Jedi too, considering what he did.
@wolfrazer: Shame he's dead..
@i_like_swords: I know...but there's always past exploits to go over! :P
@wolfrazer: It's just a matter of sales.. doubt many people would buy a Judd comic. I would.
@i_like_swords: True, but characters can always be expanded on and become liked. All characters start somewhere.
@i_like_swords said:
Interesting. I remember debating this with Nova a while back. He was saying that because Savage Opress had been tripped up by the Jedi Judd (who has virtually no feats), that Kyle Katarn would have similar success due to the fact he is superior to Judd in every way. I countered that we have no real way of knowing just how capable Judd is. He could be better or worse than Katarn. All we know is that Judd was able to trip up Savage. That's his own personal feat, and unless Katarn has done something himself to suggest he can trip up Savage or find similar success, you can't simply say that because a featless character did it, Katarn can too.
I don't know if Nova genuinely believed in that logic or if he was just playing devils advocate. I'm just glad someone agrees with me.
I was playing devil's advocate, but I was arguing that Kyle could do so based on his own skill feats and the fact that Savage lacks focus and discipline, and that he focuses on offensive skills, not protective ones, which is why characters such as Obi-Wan and Judd had so much success against him, and even Adi Gallia managed to land a blow (but failed to do anything due to Savage's durability and her own lack of physical strength).
You can't just deny something and call somebody a plain unknown due to lack of showings. We're need to define characters in some way.
@shootingnova: Fair enough, that's true.
@dccomicsrule2011: You forgot to reply to me, so I didn't get a notification.
Actually you never said that at all. The only thing you stated is that Ventress would beat both Shaak Ti and Maris Brood. What other conclusion was I to draw?
Who said you had to draw a conclusion of what my argument is? You just shouldn't have formed my own argument for me only to call me out for it.
It did against Darth Vader. That along with his speed advantage, as well as his familiarity with Vader's style, which, should have been a double-edged sword in my opinion.
He beat Vader through circumstancial aid. Had there not been a power generator, Vader would probably have been fine.
In the end he won, didn't he? The only reason he hung around for that long was because of his strength in the Force.
And Ventress is comparably powerful and considerably more skilled than Shaak Ti. She would have killed Marek instead of just pressing him as Ti did.
Who's to say Paratus wasn't powerful in the Force to the point Galen couldn't beat him with the Force? Remember, feats only show what a characters has done, not what a characters can and can't do.
lol
What's to say that Ventress isn't so powerful that Galen can't beat her with the Force?
I find that funny because, apparently, the guys over at Star wars Insider think Maris Brood would beat Ventress if they ever dueled. Yes, it's just their opinion, but it should hold some kind of weight seeing as how they have some authority over the characters.
Do you have a quote? And I'm pretty sure I can casually wave that off because of their lack of authority.
Galen's victories against Shaak and Vader literally made no sense, and Galen had aiding factors on his side against the latter. As I recall from the novel, Shaak Ti had the clear edge but suddenly became desperate for the victory.
Against Kazdan Paratus, Marek was losing and had to run. Oddly, instead of pursuing victory, Paratus chose to send his Jedi dolls which were quickly scrapped and made him cry due to his insanity, then Marek won by killing the crying Paratus who utterly neglected to defend himself. Against Kota, Marek was hardly winning, and Kota received a Force vision which gave Marek the win. Marek also needed to switch forms against Maris Brood, and as I recall, was losing before that.
Really, Marek has never won a duel via skill, and some of his victories are just senseless and stupid. Another reason for TFU being the single worst story in the EU. Thank the lord it was made non-canon even before the split between the EU and the films, but that's talk for another day.
@dccomicsrule2011 said:
I find that funny because, apparently, the guys over at Star wars Insider think Maris Brood would beat Ventress if they ever dueled. Yes, it's just their opinion, but it should hold some kind of weight seeing as how they have some authority over the characters.
Drew Karpyshyn thinks Bane, Revan and Vader are all equals, and that Malak is a better duelist than Revan. The authors of Head-to-Head said Vader would beat Yoda.
Maris Brood would get wrecked by Ventress.
@shootingnova said:
@dccomicsrule2011 said:
I find that funny because, apparently, the guys over at Star wars Insider think Maris Brood would beat Ventress if they ever dueled. Yes, it's just their opinion, but it should hold some kind of weight seeing as how they have some authority over the characters.
Drew Karpyshyn thinks Bane, Revan and Vader are all equals, and that Malak is a better duelist than Revan. The authors of Head-to-Head said Vader would beat Yoda.
I'd imagine he feels the same way about Malgus, too.
@jedixman: I don't know if he knows anything about Malgus. Technically speaking, Malgus's feats do exceed Bane's, but that wasn't really the point. The point was that authors suggestions, especially out of canonical sources, are not valid, and it's very possible to doubt what they write in their own works as well.
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