@buildhare:
She had spent months obsessing over him, his actions and what kind of person he was. She preyed on his tolerance and was still ultimately outwitted and defeated. She lacks the prep time, knowledge or Oliver's "understanding" to make her a factor. Her abilities of manipulation have no bearing in this fight.
Well she might have had the advantage of preparation, but no matter what, at the end of the day Cupid is still a lot more tactically oriented than Falcon is. You can't deny that. And actually, she was never outwitted by Oliver at all. She and Malcolm Merlyn are the only two villains throughout the course of all four seasons who Oliver never ended up outsmarting, Cupid was only captured of her own will. Remember, it wasn't her goal to kill Ollie, she wanted him to fall in love with her. To reach that end she organized multiple face-to-face meetings between the two, outright giving him her location, and even with Arsenal backing him up, Oliver was eluded by Cupid each time. In the end, she once again asked for a face-to-face meeting, and when Oliver finally got his hands on her and made it clear that he can subdue her in a fight with no problem, she AGAIN played it smart and managed to outsmart him and leave him handcuffed to a train track.
Cupid certainly had advantages over Oliver, but let's not try to completely devalue her accomplishments just because she had more time to prepare, especially when killing Oliver wasn't her goal either and she had something much more complicated in mind. Outwitting him the way she did, with as much consistency as she did and always staying one step ahead of everybody, and even by the very end, NEVER being outsmarted... that's impressive. Oliver ALWAYS outsmarts his opponents. Deathstroke, Ra's, Darhk. But not Cupid. And no I'm not saying Cupid is smarter than Slade or Ra's, but she IS a lot more strategically talented than you might think at first glance, and this is only furthered by her performance in the Suicide Squad (how can you say the Suicide Squad is not a selective group? It's the special black ops division of blackest military organization in the world.) That's a big advantage over Falcon, especially when she and Luke have Falcon outnumbered on top of that.
I'm unfamiliar with this happening in the show, so if you could enlighten me further my response might be more accurate, but if what your saying is true this would be likely her only tactical/strategic feat in combat.
It was in the Flash season 0 comics actually.
She really isn't, she doesn't have the on the fly tactic making abilities you've bestowed on her, and she is constantly rescued from danger.
You're taking those gifs completely out of context. She was not rescued from danger, she INTENDED to be run over by the train, that is not a failing of her intelligence at all. Now yes she was saved by Deadshot... once. But how is that her "constantly needing to be rescued from danger" and therefore proof that she's not highly intelligent? Everybody can use help from time to time... you're just trying to downplay her when in reality, she's portrayed in the show as a surprisingly clever strategist. I mean come on, Falcon was literally rescued WAY more often during 'Winter Soldier,' and he only has maybe half as much screentime as Cupid does. So I guess your argument backfired?... Or, in my opinion, a character receiving help from their teammates once in awhile just isn't reflective of their strategic talent.
Falcon is outnumbered for a very very brief moment before he quickly puts Cupid down. As I've hopefully already shown, she is absolutely no match for him.
Cupid can use stealth to her advantage, especially in an environment like this, and with her admirable archery skill she can very well snag Falcon by surprise.
Think about it, Sam is a pretty decent fellow right? So which enemy is he going to target first, the big burly mean-looking brute, or the woman? Basic strategy would indicate he'll target Luke, and be preoccupied for at least a few seconds while the bullets don't penetrate. Meanwhile Carrie can slip away into the shadows and set herself up for an ambush. Her arrows should have no problem killing Falcon in one hit, since the arrows in 'Arrow' regularly penetrate inches into solid steel. Falcon is going to need to dodge everything, but even giving him all the benefit of the doubt I can, he just hasn't proven he possesses the skill to multitask against two dangerous and versatile opponents at once. He opens fire on Carrie, Luke jumps into the air and grabs his ankle. He turns his attention to Luke, Carrie hits him with an arrow. He's facing one enemy who is totally immune to his damage output, and another who he should be totally unable to find. By comparison, BOTH of my fighters have the ability to oneshot Falcon, if they can simply land a hit. The odds just aren't in Sam's favor, dude.
As this feat is an extreme outlier and its more likely then not it was for dramatic effect I'm going to go ahead and dismiss its validity. It might also be worth noting that throughout that fight Cage was repeatedly unable to get a hold, or even strike Jessica.
Alright now that's just lowballing. Jessica is quick, deal with it. And Luke ripped her right out of the air. Sure she managed to evade him a lot during their fight... but she's a superhuman, Sam is not. And she still needed to tank quite a few blows just to survive, AND was still going to die in the end after all that, if the police didn't show up. All Luke needs to do is get his hands on Falcon, and it's basically over.
Really the first section of this battle can only go one way. Falcon speeds across the battlefield, high in the warehouse. Without basic knowledge your characters have approximately no chance of spotting him in the darkened space, while he can see them clear as day with his goggles.
His wings aren't exactly silent, and the warehouse is hardly high enough for this to be effective. I'm pretty sure even I would spot the guy pretty quickly.
Although I did forget about his goggles, they might be effective for countering stealth from Cupid. Although with Sam's attention split between fending off Luke and searching for Carrie, she should be alright so long as she stays behind cover.
A) Falcon sees Cupid, he shoots her with either his machine pistols in flight or with his rifle from above.
Certainly Carrie is competent enough not to stand around and make herself a target, she can make it to cover, or hell just take one step behind Cage and use him as cover. Taking her out won't be as simple as you might think.
Cage doesn't have the speed, reaction times or leaping ability to tag Sam in flight, ever.
If Sam is split between an expert archer raining down arrows on him and the superhuman wrecking ball that is Luke Cage, I think they're odds are pretty good. One of them is bound to hit the guy.
While Cage is unable to reach him, Falcon is free to unload bullets into his sensitive areas. Again Eyes, ears, mouth and even the Scrotum are all up for grabs at this point.
Ehh I don't know if scrotum or earshots are gonna be all that effective against the guy who pressed an electric saw into his belly until it broke just to prove his superpowers, and it's not like Cage will be running around with his mouth open. An eye shot could get the job done, but all Cage really needs to do is cover his face with his hand, maybe peer out between his fingers. Falcon is a good shot, but I don't think he has this level of precision on a moving target while in flight himself, and if he hovers, that gives Cage or Carrie the opening to attack.
It seems we're at somewhat of an impasse here, we just disagree on a few core components. Personally I just don't see Falcon successfully splitting his attention between these two very dangerous and very different threats, simultaneously and avoiding all their attacks while finding ways to defeat them. Again, Cage is just immune to Sam's damage output, and Cupid is pretty good at stealth. And they have two vs one. The odds are just in their favor. Although clearly, you see it differently. You think Sam can get a shot on Luke's eye or in his mouth to kill him, and I'm just a bit doubtful of those odds. It's certainly a plausible scenario, I just don't see Falcon as capable of it. Nothing more we can do in a situation like this, just agree to disagree, it's all cool.
The one thing I gotta call you out on though is the blatant lowballing of Cupid. That's not something we just disagree on, I think you're just outright wrong. Sure Carrie had the advantage of preparation and Ollie wasn't trying his hardest to murder her, but don't forget the facts that A) Cupid didn't want to hurt or kill Oliver either, her goals were much more complicated and therefore difficult to plan, and B) Cupid was never really defeated. She beat Oliver, could'a killed him as a matter of fact, but that wasn't her goal. Her goal was to make him love her, and she failed in that so she lost and got handed over to ARGUS. But in a battle-sense, she totally beat Oliver fair and square, and this was after being overpowered in direct combat, simply through some on-the-spot improvising and her SWAT training (cuffing dangerous suspects). That was genius thinking on Cupid's part, give credit where credit is due, man.
The idea of Cupid "constantly needing to be rescued" and therefore she's not smart, is just an awful thing to argue, it makes me wonder if you even watch the show, because it's literally just wrong, and that's with all due respect. That's like if I argued, Falcon's wings were prone to malfunction in the movie, so as soon as he falls to the ground, he's going to get shot her punched by Luke... Is that even true? Well his wings did break down a couple times, for various reasons. I can post gifs of it to prove my case... but I'm basically just lying, and applying a character trait that doesn't actually exist. His wings weren't prone to malfunction... and neither is Carrie not a clever fighter.
Maybe you don't like Cupid, and that's cool, but you don't seem to understand her character very well, and that's a problem when you make such strong statements. But this was a fun discussion, sad the tournament seems to be dead (maybe it's partly my fault for not replying in 27 days...) but maybe we can do a fuller CaV sometime and discuss the abilities of Arrow characters in more detail.
@nfactor1995
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