Arrow vs John Wick

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PayneInTheAss

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#1  Edited By PayneInTheAss
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VS

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RULES

  • No explosive arrows, No grenades
  • Wick only handguns.

Location

  • They start of opposite sides of the club
  • Club is full of people.
  • Unarmed guards can attack them
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AllStarSuperman

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Arrow

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deactivated-5d86fd79c2e73

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Arrow is close to comic book character level while Wick was a more realistic fighter, Arrow wins.

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TheSuperor

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Arrow

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TheSilentRipper

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Wick shoots him in the head.

However, this is a "whoever shot first wins" scenario.

So it´s close.

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nickzambuto

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Wick shoots him in the head.

However, this is a "whoever shot first wins" scenario.

So it´s close.

You do realize this is not the first time Oliver has fought a gunman, yeah?

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BoostMyGold

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Wick was crazy good with the head shots, man. He could take Ollie out in this scenario. 50/50 IMO.

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TheSilentRipper

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@thesilentripper said:

Wick shoots him in the head.

However, this is a "whoever shot first wins" scenario.

So it´s close.

You do realize this is not the first time Oliver has fought a gunman, yeah?

Wick was crazy good with the head shots, man. He could take Ollie out in this scenario. 50/50 IMO.

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MiracleComeBack

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NightThrasher

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Arrow isn't meant to be a realistic fighter. He should win this relatively easily as long as John doesn't stealth kill him (I don't know if he could). Although I do like John more.

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AllStarSuperman

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John has no chance

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BoostMyGold

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nickzambuto

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@nickzambuto said:
@thesilentripper said:

Wick shoots him in the head.

However, this is a "whoever shot first wins" scenario.

So it´s close.

You do realize this is not the first time Oliver has fought a gunman, yeah?

@boostmygold said:

Wick was crazy good with the head shots, man. He could take Ollie out in this scenario. 50/50 IMO.

John Wick never encountered a peak human. He is very accurate but Oliver is too fast for him to keep up with. Again Oliver faces gunmen on a daily basis, even trained soldiers, fully automatic weapons, and master marksman like Deadshot and Deathstroke.

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nickzambuto

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TheSilentRipper

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@nickzambuto: I´ll look for some Arrow timing bullets feats

But yes, IMO John can win only from a distance, if they get close, Arrow beats him.

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106me

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@nickzambuto: You do realize that John Wick isn't just some trained soldier, correct?

And I'd argue that he's a much better mid to close range marksman than Deadshot.

He's a better marksman than deathstroke though, regardless of range.

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EmperorxHadesx420

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@106me: Prove it with feats and not statements/Opinions.

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MonsterStomp

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@thesilentripper said:

Wick shoots him in the head.

However, this is a "whoever shot first wins" scenario.

So it´s close.

You do realize this is not the first time Oliver has fought a gunman, yeah?

So? His avoidance is good, but then again, bullet don't job as much in Wick's universe.

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TheSilentRipper

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TheSilentRipper

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#20  Edited By TheSilentRipper
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WaspAlfa20

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Arrow.

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TheSuperor

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@thesilentripper: He is probably a better marksman then most in the Arrowverse, he is probably right up there with Slade I would say. But still I don't think he has a very good chance against Oliver. Oliver has insane accuracy with the bow + his stealth and CQC skills are better.

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AllStarSuperman

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AllStarSuperman

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MonsterStomp

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deactivated-5d86fd79c2e73

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@thesilentripper: I still stand by my opinion, he's a good shot but the fight would inevitably come down to hand-to-hand, which he would lose.

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AllStarSuperman

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#27  Edited By AllStarSuperman
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MonsterStomp

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@nickzambuto: I´ll look for some Arrow timing bullets feats

You won't find any. At least, not ones that should be taken literally.

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PayneInTheAss

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bump

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TheSilentRipper

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@thesilentripper: where did you get those charts?

and infographic by George Hatzis, I found one from Arrow too, but is different, I´m gonna take a look a it

http://www.visu.info/television/arrow-track-record/

http://geektyrant.com/news/infographic-john-wick-kills-broken-down-into-accuracy-location-and-more

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NotoriousLe

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Ollie is near his comic book counterpart. Wick is great. But Ollie handles him

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PeterParkerJr

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I could see Wick stealth killing Ollie. They're in a club full of people and can be attacked by Security Guards. Wick could just duck out while Ollie is fighting, appear behind him and kill him. But I'd like to think Ollie has a little more awareness than that.

I'll give to Ollie. All it'll take it one well placed arrow. If comes down to H2H, Ollie takes that too.

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nickzambuto

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@106me said:

@nickzambuto: You do realize that John Wick isn't just some trained soldier, correct?

And I'd argue that he's a much better mid to close range marksman than Deadshot.

He's a better marksman than deathstroke though, regardless of range.

He objectively is not. Floyd Lawton is literally a superhuman marksman with some weird mutation/enhancement to his natural senses that make him superior to normal men, his eyesight in particular. He literally traumatized himself by fighting in the war because, quote, "I pull a trigger, and every single time somebody dies! Every. Time." It's as if he is almost incapable of missing, in every scene he's had in both the TV show and the comics (and trust me there's been a lot) he has not once missed a shot... except for when he fought Oliver Queen. In mid-range combat he and Bronze Tiger defeated 10 ARGUS soldiers in 7 seconds while dodging their fire and not missing a single shot.

Meanwhile back when Slade Wilson was still on the island and relying only on his ASIS training without any of his mercenary experience or Mirakuru enhancements, he was fast enough to draw his weapons while surrounded by six of Fyers trained mercenaries and land kill shots on all of them, around their body armor, all at varying angles and distances, without missing a single bullet and before a single one of them could even react.

John Wick might have excellently choreographed fight scenes and his close range gun-kata is certainly superior to anyone in Arrow (because they don't USE gun-kata) but the fact of the matter is he couldn't replicate any of these feats. He specializes in getting close to his opponent and fighting them CQC then pulling off a killshot when he gets the chance, in both speed and accuracy he isn't anywhere even close to Deadshot and Deathstroke. Yet guess who is able to dodge both of their gunfire on a consistent basis? Oliver Queen. And who was responsible for actually defeating Deadshot in a duel in the first place? Oliver Queen. He might not have possessed Floyd's superhuman accuracy, but he was better trained and more experienced, and that made him the better shooter. Same applies against John Wick. Oliver wins with his bow and destroys if he uses trick arrows, stealth, or CQC.

@nickzambuto said:
@thesilentripper said:

Wick shoots him in the head.

However, this is a "whoever shot first wins" scenario.

So it´s close.

You do realize this is not the first time Oliver has fought a gunman, yeah?

So? His avoidance is good, but then again, bullet don't job as much in Wick's universe.

It's not about jobbing. John Wick is a grounded, semi-realistic film. Nobody possesses peak human speed in that film, John is fighting regular mafiosos, and yet he still misses his shots once in awhile because his accuracy isn't perfect. But in Arrow, Oliver Queen is a peak human superhero with reflexes literally fast enough to react to bullets. And unlike John Wick, his accuracy IS perfect, in all four seasons so far I don't think he has ever once been off target. When he fires an arrow, it is always on trajectory towards whatever he aimed at, only when Oliver is fighting other peak humans like Malcolm Merlyn or Bronze Tiger who are actually faster than the arrow itself does he not hit his target, but that isn't a failing of accuracy, those characters are reacting to the arrows themselves. And even then Oliver is almost always skilled and/or tactical enough to hit them anyway after a few tries.

Just off the top of my head, here is a list of every single character Oliver has fought who was able to react to his arrows;

  • Malcolm Merlyn - Known for catching Oliver's arrows, so Oliver tricked him into catching an explosive arrow. (+Archery tactics)
  • Deadshot - He was reacting to Oliver's arrows and was also the more accurate marksman with far superior weaponry and equipment to boot. However due to his higher training and greater experience, Oliver was skilled enough to beat him at his own game with an arrow through the eye after a prolonged gun/archery duel. (+Archery accuracy)
  • Guillermo Barrera - An assassin who chopped up all of Oliver's arrows with his knives, but Oliver was able to easily beat him in CQC.
  • Huntress - Trained herself to catch Ollie's arrows, so he beat her in CQC.
  • Bronze Tiger - Chopped up all of Oliver's arrows with his claws, but Oliver was skilled enough to rapid-fire his arrows and expose a brief opening in Tiger's defenses, which he was able to immediately take advantage of. Tiger commended him for actually hitting him with an arrow but also stated it wouldn't stop him, until Ollie revealed it was a taser arrow and instantly downed Tiger. (+Archery accuracy)
  • Nyssa - Possibly the most agile character in Arrow. Untouchable to Oliver's arrows, but Merlyn managed to snag her.
  • Slade Wilson - Can easily deflect Ollie's arrows with his sword and was also wearing impenetrable armor, making him almost impossible for Ollie to defeat. However after an exhausting CQC battle, Oliver was able to slip through his defenses and parry Slade into a stone pillar, than while he was off-guard, Oliver quickly hit him with multiple bola arrows that tied him to the pillar and finally incapacitated him. (+Archery tactics)
  • All Mirakuru users - Mirakuru gives its user superhuman speed in addition to strength, the users were all shown capable of dodging and even catching arrows pretty casually in addition to other showings of superhuman speed, yet their lack of training meant Ollie was almost always able to find a hole in their defenses and snag them anyway. (+Archery accuracy)
  • The Flash - Can easily run three times faster than Oliver's arrows, but his lack of experience gave him multiple exploitable weaknesses that Ollie took advantage of to somehow tag him several times during their fight. (+Archery tactics)
  • Reverse Flash - Multiple times faster than The Flash who Ollie fought, yet after being trained by Ra's al Ghul and learning the ways of the League of Assassins, Ollie was actually able to keep track of Reverse Flash and Flash fighting, and wanted Flash to get out of the way so he could take his shot with special nanites that would remove Reverse Flash's speed. (+Archery accuracy)
  • Captain Boomerang - Now this is the guy who singlehandedly stormed ARGUS HQ and steamrolled his way through the entire complex, killing off every agent who got in his way without effort and could dodge gunfire from a whole swarm of agents at once including Diggle and Lyla, as well as moving fast enough to vanish from thin air in a burst of light and make Arsenal look like complete canon fodder while simultaneously fighting The Arrow. Suffice to say arrows should be nothing to him; and he proves it by deflecting everything Ollie throws his way with ease. However Ollie was unprepared in their first encounter, during their second he proved he can actually make short work of Captain Boomerang by acrobatically dodging all of his weapons including explosives, then disarming him and quickly hitting him with ziptie arrows around his neck to pin him to a pillar. (+Archery accuracy)
  • Komodo - An even better archer than Oliver, but not as experienced or strategically adept. Oliver couldn't tag Komodo conventionally nor could he win in an archery duel, so what he did was use his arrow to shoot Komodo's straight out of the air, then when Komodo quickly reloaded a second arrow and fired as quickly as possible, Oliver remained passive. Instead of counterattacking he caught Komodo's arrow in his hand, spun around while loading it into his own bow, and then shot it right back at Komodo when he wasn't expecting it to pin him nonlethally to a pillar. (+Archery tactics)

This is just off the top of my head. I'm sure there's a few more characters who have dodged Ollie's arrows and a few who we can assume would be able to. For example I'm sure Ra's al Ghul could have deflected arrows, but for whatever reason Oliver never fought him using his bow. The point though is that Oliver is consistently skilled enough to tag and defeat characters fast enough to casually react to arrows, using his arrows, through whatever means. So what happens when he fights John Wick who isn't even a peak human? Oliver's first arrow is going to hit John, he doesn't even need to break out the clever strategies but the point is that he can if he needs to. This is a complete mismatch.

John is very skilled but he just isn't in league with these comic booky superheroes like Oliver. I mean within the very first MINUTE of the very first episode of Arrow, Oliver proved that he can hit a target nearly a mile away with an arrow, and doesn't even need to take time to aim. He can just do it. He's fast enough to drop six tennis balls from the ceiling all at once and pin them each to the wall from the opposite side of a warehouse by drawing and firing one arrow at a time, with each ball landing mere inches apart from one another. He can even fire multiple arrows at the same time and have them land with millimetric precision, pinning people to walls by stands of their clothing without drawing any blood. Oliver is just too over the top, not to mention even if we GAVE John the benefit of the doubt and said he's more accurate, Oliver is still smarter, has CQC, physically superior, stealth, the list goes on.

John Wick can't win this one.

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tparks

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Arrow. John Wick is one of the coolest new action heroes that has come out in a long time, and would probably make Arrow work for a win, but Arrow should win nearly 10/10. This is all based on me just watching a handful of Arrow episodes, and seeing that he is clearly capable of impossible feats, where John is capable of almost completely improbable feats, but still possible for a human to do. I think Arrow is just a tier higher in combat abilities on all fronts.

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nickzambuto

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#35  Edited By nickzambuto

@tparks said:

Arrow. John Wick is one of the coolest new action heroes that has come out in a long time, and would probably make Arrow work for a win, but Arrow should win nearly 10/10. This is all based on me just watching a handful of Arrow episodes, and seeing that he is clearly capable of impossible feats, where John is capable of almost completely improbable feats, but still possible for a human to do. I think Arrow is just a tier higher in combat abilities on all fronts.

I believe a sequel has been confirmed in the works, so maybe John Wick 2 will even the odds. I admit, Arrow's biggest advantage here is the fact that he just has so much more screentime and has fought so many more characters.

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nickzambuto

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tparks

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#37  Edited By tparks

@nickzambuto: I don't think I'd say it's more feats vs less feats, but it does help. Just taking what both of them do and generalizing what they are capable of, Arrow is just better. Wick had a lot of time to show us what he's capable of, and what he is not capable of. I don't think there is anything from that movie to make me think he's capable of taking a majority against Arrow.

John Wick does win in a fight to see which characters @$$ is the baddest though. I loved that movie, and am glad Keanu is doing another one. Best character he's done since Johnny Utah.

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nickzambuto

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@tparks said:

@nickzambuto: I don't think I'd say it's more feats vs less feats, but it does help. Just taking what both of them do and generalizing what they are capable of, Arrow is just better. Wick had a lot of time to show us what he's capable of, and what he is not capable of. I don't think there is anything from that movie to make me think he's capable of taking a majority against Arrow.

John Wick does win in a fight to see which characters @$$ is the baddest though. I loved that movie, and am glad Keanu is doing another one. Best character he's done since Johnny Utah.

I don't know about that. I enjoyed John Wick a lot, but I've fallen in love with Stephen Amell as Oliver Queen. Just look at their pictures in the OP, Arrow's walk is a lot cooler.

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tparks

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@nickzambuto: It's a good tough guy walk, but he's trying too hard. Chest all puffed out, fists balled up too tight. "Come on, Ollie, I know you're on CW and have devilish good looks, but we've watched your show now and all know your a bad@ss at heart; regardless of the shows that air around you and CW forcing you to take off your shirt for close-up abs shots every episode. Don't force it with the mad at the world look, you don't need to compensate bro, we understand."

Wick walks like, " I just blew all of this sh*t up, but I don't care cause I do this every day. NBD."

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nickzambuto

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@tparks said:

@nickzambuto: It's a good tough guy walk, but he's trying too hard. Chest all puffed out, fists balled up too tight. "Come on, Ollie, I know you're on CW and have devilish good looks, but we've watched your show now and all know your a bad@ss at heart; regardless of the shows that air around you and CW forcing you to take off your shirt for close-up abs shots every episode. Don't force it with the mad at the world look, you don't need to compensate bro, we understand."

Wick walks like, " I just blew all of this sh*t up, but I don't care cause I do this every day. NBD."

Well can John Wick do this?!

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106me

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@nickzambuto:

Well, it's apparent now that you really do wank the Arrow series. Hell, not to stereotype, but I bet you think even Laurel could stomp John Wick at this point. Now, in terms of your argument...

He literally traumatized himself by fighting in the war

That's nothing special. I don't understand why you would mention this because, in terms of intelligence abilities, you just showed he has a damaged psyche with average intelligence.

because, quote, "I pull a trigger, and every single time somebody dies! Every. Time." It's as if he is almost incapable of missing,

That's clearly hyperbole and you know it. Real life soldiers describe pulling the trigger as "too easy" and that it's scary in a sense because it doesn't take very much to kill their targets. Many combat-focused soldiers in real life already experience what Deadshot experiences. It's still nothing special.

in every scene he's had in both the TV show and the comics (and trust me there's been a lot) he has not once missed a shot...

In terms of his assassination missions, that is true. Because most of the time he is armed with a sniper rifle and can hide at long ranges to snipe his unsuspecting target. Impressive, but not something that Marcus (from John Wick obviously) isn't capable of, or in other words, this isn't unheard of in the John Wick verse.

except for when he fought Oliver Queen. In mid-range combat he and Bronze Tiger defeated 10 ARGUS soldiers in 7 seconds while dodging their fire and not missing a single shot.

John Wick can do that alone without a problem.

Meanwhile back when Slade Wilson was still on the island and relying only on his ASIS training without any of his mercenary experience or Mirakuru enhancements, he was fast enough to draw his weapons while surrounded by six of Fyers trained mercenaries and land kill shots on all of them, around their body armor, all at varying angles and distances, without missing a single bullet and before a single one of them could even react.

Impressive, still, but it's not something Wick isn't capable of. (Also, you're desperately grabbing here. The wank on Slade is real here, as he's barely competent when it comes to mid ranges. Yes, you heard me, there are parts in Arrow where he is employing "Spray n' Pray tactics.") Is Slade skilled in other areas? You bet, but not when it comes to firearms,

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Heck, he even shoots a guy without even looking.

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There's no way Slade is better than this.

John Wick might have excellently choreographed fight scenes and his close range gun-kata is certainly superior to anyone in Arrow (because they don't USE gun-kata)

No sheit they don't use Gun-kata! Do you understand that what you said isn't a good thing? How is Oliver going to adapt against a style he hasn't seen before?

And you know Oliver doesn't have a good track record against opponents who have tactical or special advantages over him, such as Merlyn who was physically weaker than Oliver, yet beat him because of his resolve (something Oliver lacked at the time), or Ra's, who had the advantage in his dueling techniques, something Oliver couldn't overcome initially.

but the fact of the matter is he couldn't replicate any of these feats. He specializes in getting close to his opponent and fighting them CQC then pulling off a killshot when he gets the chance,

Something that would shock the Arrowverse since they have demonstrated no skill with gun-kata.

in both speed and accuracy he isn't anywhere even close to Deadshot and Deathstroke.

From a distance, yes. With gun-kata, Hell no.

Yet guess who is able to dodge both of their gunfire on a consistent basis? Oliver Queen. And who was responsible for actually defeating Deadshot in a duel in the first place? Oliver Queen. He might not have possessed Floyd's superhuman accuracy, but he was better trained and more experienced, and that made him the better shooter.

Okay, but in terms of gun-kata, Deadshot would get destroyed. So this is only relevant in the sense that Oliver can dodge Wick's rounds, for the most part, but he's going to get stomped if he doesn't use his bow in CQC against Wick.

Oliver wins with his bow and destroys if he uses trick arrows

This I can agree with.

stealth

Outside of combat, then yes. In stealth based combat, Wick would have the win.

or CQC

Hand to hand, I agree for the most part. Hand to Hand with guns involved? Wick destroys.

Oliver is still smarter,

Yes, agreed.

has CQC

Without guns, yes.

, physically superior, '

Yes, but look at Merlyn. This isn't going to guarantee Oliver a win.

stealth, the list goes on.

No, it doesn't. If it did you would have already listed it.

My conclusion is that Oliver would win 8-9/10 times. If Oliver gets his bow disarmed (which has happened before, but in this instance, it would only happen once or twice out of ten times), then Wick will definitely get a headshot off of Oliver.

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OOCMikey

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Wick shoots him in the head.

However, this is a "whoever shot first wins" scenario.

So it´s close.

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tparks

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#43  Edited By tparks

@nickzambuto: No man on Earth should be capable of that, I'm out of breath just watching it. I've got to go eat a cheeseburger or a donut or something so I feel right again.

I wish I got trapped on a plot island so I could become the poster boy for six packs. Dude makes Spartans look chubby.

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nickzambuto

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#44  Edited By nickzambuto

@106me: Everything I said is a simple fact. I don't think Laurel could beat John Wick because she has no bullet dodging feats yet and isn't extremely skilled in melee, but if you don't see what is so impressive about the fact that somebody dies every single time Floyd squeezes his trigger, whether he even likes it or not, to the point where he couldn't even stop himself from killing everybody in his way in the middle of a full battlefield, than I don't know what to tell you. Your arguments are stupid, this fact wasn't supposed to be a testament to Deadshot's intelligence, I don't understand how you could reach that conclusion, obviously the fact that he's never missed and seemingly can't even control himself from killing people with every shot is supposed to speak of his accuracy, not his intelligence. And Marcus fired his rifle like, twice throughout the entire movie. Just because those shots didn't miss doesn't make him comparable to Deadshot, when we've seen Deadshot fire DOZENS of times on-screen and know that he went through a whole war without ever missing at all. Seriously if you don't see what's impressive about that and the only thing you can possibly think to detract from it is "nyehhh hyperbole" than you're wasting my time.

And John Wick could not kill 10 armed ARGUS soldiers in a wide open barren environment in just seven seconds. It took him nearly three minutes just to kill 11 men, in his own home, with plenty of cover and stealth. The whole scene with Deadshot and Tiger was just a casual training exercise that Deadshot said was too easy. So even if he was doing it alone, let's just say it would have taken him twice as long, 14 seconds. It literally took John Wick 10 times longer to kill one extra man than it would have taken Deadshot, and Deadshot was fast enough to kill them all at once in a wide open environment while dodging their fire. If Wick just jumped out in front of all his attackers, he would not have been fast enough to blitz them all without getting hit, but Deadshot, similarly to Slade, was. Not to mention ARGUS is superior to standard Special Forces, who receive much higher training than the regular military, while John Wick was just fighting mafia hitmen. ARGUS > Special Forces > standard military > the mafia.

The fact that you think this is all comparable is dumb.

Impressive, still, but it's not something Wick isn't capable of. (Also, you're desperately grabbing here. The wank on Slade is real here, as he's barely competent when it comes to mid ranges. Yes, you heard me, there are parts in Arrow where he is employing "Spray n' Pray tactics.") Is Slade skilled in other areas? You bet, but not when it comes to firearms,

This is also a very dumb sentence. I just listed a feat for Slade and your response is it doesn't count. God the more I read the more I realize how much I'm wasting my time.

And you know Oliver doesn't have a good track record against opponents who have tactical or special advantages over him, such as Merlyn who was physically weaker than Oliver, yet beat him because of his resolve (something Oliver lacked at the time), or Ra's, who had the advantage in his dueling techniques, something Oliver couldn't overcome initially.

Stupid argument. You list two opponents who beat Oliver once over the course of four seasons and determine that characters who are smart or have "special advantages" always beat him. Never mind the fact that John Wick has no such special advantage (I said he was better than Deadshot at gun-kata specifically. Not that he stands a chance against Oliver in melee). Are you stupid? I'm just wondering.

Something that would shock the Arrowverse since they have demonstrated no skill with gun-kata.

Getting shot at by a guy holding guns would shock the whole Arrowverse? Gun-kata is just the act of fighting in CQC, while holding weapons, and shooting when you get the chance. John Wick is really good at it but it's not some hidden secret ancient technique that will blow anybody's mind...

None of your arguments make any sense, it sounds like you don't even watch the show and you just read the front page of the wiki, you opened by saying I wank Arrow and then concluded by saying Arrow wins 8-9/10 times. I'm left feeling empty and wondering why I spent time typing this.

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Jestersmiles

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Arrow wins but all these he close to comic arrow comments are funny :D

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MonsterStomp

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TheSilentRipper

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No Caption Provided
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Just throwing info...

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MonsterStomp

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@thesilentripper: Are these stat sheets canon? If so, Wick is by far more accurate than anyone Arrow went up against.

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TheSilentRipper

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@thesilentripper: Are these stat sheets canon? If so, Wick is by far more accurate than anyone Arrow went up against.

Canon? I don´t know, I don´t think so, It´s just an amazing work, that seems pretty legit.

If it´s not "canon" we shouldn´t considerate it? I don´t think so. I think it´s solid info.

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MonsterStomp

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@thesilentripper: Canon, as in accurate to the film itself. Have you compared those stat sheets to the scenes?