Arrow [CW] vs the Joker

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rogueshadow

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#1 rogueshadow  Moderator

The CW's Arrow and Heath Ledger's the Joker.

Round 1: The Joker is terrorising Starling City, he is aware of the vigilante known as the Hood he begins his crime spree with only 5 men. Arrow seeks to take him out.

Round 2: The Joker at the height of his power from TDK is active in Starling City. Arrow has prep time and wants to take him out, the Joker is aware the vigilante will be coming for him.

Morals on. Win by death. Bot have a basic understanding of the other in both rounds.

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the_red_viper

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#2 the_red_viper  Moderator

Probably Arrow both rounds.

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dondave

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#3  Edited By dondave

Explosive Arrow to the head.

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ULTRAstarkiller

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If the Joker knows Arrow kills he stomps. Heath Joker was just as dangerous as comic Joker and he wont meet Arrow f2f if he knows he'll kill him. I doubt Ollie can counter any plan the Joker has.

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RBT

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hatemalingsia

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Arrow.

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deactivated-6241fa3a1cff5

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nickzambuto

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When I read the title I almost face palmed, I thought it was going to be a horrible lowball of Arrow putting him in a fist fight with the Joker, and then everyone was going to scream Joker stomps because he's able to survive against Batman in close quarters for three seconds sometimes.

But now that I read the OP I see I was wrong, and in fact, I might be leaning towards Joker for the advantage. Season 1 showed us that for as smart as he is, Oliver isn't invincible, he's not omniscient, he CAN be outsmarted and outplayed. As said, Ledger Joker was just as dangerous as comic book Joker, his intelligence definitely rivals if not surpasses that of Malcolm Merlyn's, so it's totally a possibility that Joker can do a good bit of damage to Starling City before eventually being stopped.

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Stormdriven

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#9  Edited By Stormdriven
  1. I think Oliver skates by with a close win
  2. Joker should take this one handily.
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Pokeysteve

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As long as he can find him, Ollie. Both rounds. Easily.

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AllStarSuperman

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As long as he can find him, Ollie. Both rounds. Easily.

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Transformers1024

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Probably Arrow

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nickzambuto

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@pokeysteve said:

As long as he can find him, Ollie. Both rounds. Easily.

It's far from that simple. Batman found Joker in TDK, even took him down and brought him to jail. Yet who actually won between them? Joker murdered dozens of civilians, killed Batman's love, and corrupted Gotham's white night.

This is comparable to the first season of Arrow. Oliver found Malcolm and even defeated him, yet that didn't stop Merlyn from achieving his goals and totally winning in the end.

It's going to require more than just finding Joker for Oliver to win, he'd need to cover all bases and predict Joker's every move to make sure he doesn't do anything devastating, and Oliver simply is not capable of that.

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ScouterV

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@allstarsuperman said:

@pokeysteve said:

As long as he can find him, Ollie. Both rounds. Easily.

It's far from that simple. Batman found Joker in TDK, even took him down and brought him to jail. Yet who actually won between them? Joker murdered dozens of civilians, killed Batman's love, and corrupted Gotham's white night.

This is comparable to the first season of Arrow. Oliver found Malcolm and even defeated him, yet that didn't stop Merlyn from achieving his goals and totally winning in the end.

It's going to require more than just finding Joker for Oliver to win, he'd need to cover all bases and predict Joker's every move to make sure he doesn't do anything devastating, and Oliver simply is not capable of that.

As far as I can tell, I see no reason this wouldn't be standard Arrow-type stuff, considering how much it borrows from Batman characterization.

Yeah, Joker may kill some people. But at the end of the day, he's getting an arrow through the chest. There's really no way around that.

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nickzambuto

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@scouterv said:

@nickzambuto said:

@allstarsuperman said:

@pokeysteve said:

As long as he can find him, Ollie. Both rounds. Easily.

It's far from that simple. Batman found Joker in TDK, even took him down and brought him to jail. Yet who actually won between them? Joker murdered dozens of civilians, killed Batman's love, and corrupted Gotham's white night.

This is comparable to the first season of Arrow. Oliver found Malcolm and even defeated him, yet that didn't stop Merlyn from achieving his goals and totally winning in the end.

It's going to require more than just finding Joker for Oliver to win, he'd need to cover all bases and predict Joker's every move to make sure he doesn't do anything devastating, and Oliver simply is not capable of that.

As far as I can tell, I see no reason this wouldn't be standard Arrow-type stuff, considering how much it borrows from Batman characterization.

Yeah, Joker may kill some people. But at the end of the day, he's getting an arrow through the chest. There's really no way around that.

Considering how much it borrows from Batman characterization.

And like I said, Joker beat Batman.

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tparks

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#16  Edited By tparks  Online

Joker is going to put anyone who is close to Ollie's lives on the line, or possibly entire boats full of hundreds of people's lives on the line, or something of this sort, and force Ollie to walk right into a trap. Only reason Joker didn't stomp Batman is because he didn't want to kill Batman. Had Joker wanted Batman dead, he would have died. Obviously Ollie can take out all of the fodder Joker will be utilizing as his guns for hire, but Ollie is just not going to ever be step ahead of Joker, or even a step behind Joker. He's going to be more like a dozen steps behind Joker. Since this is not about Joker tormenting Ollie like he did with Batman, and just finding a way for him to simply kill Ollie, Joker should really win somewhere around 9/10, with Ollie possibly getting lucky for that 1/10.

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TraGiC_JoHNSoN

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Oliver both rounds. Joker would want to meet the famous "hood" and Oliver has no problem killing.

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RisingBean

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#18  Edited By RisingBean
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Pokeysteve

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@allstarsuperman said:

@pokeysteve said:

As long as he can find him, Ollie. Both rounds. Easily.

It's far from that simple. Batman found Joker in TDK, even took him down and brought him to jail. Yet who actually won between them? Joker murdered dozens of civilians, killed Batman's love, and corrupted Gotham's white night.

This is comparable to the first season of Arrow. Oliver found Malcolm and even defeated him, yet that didn't stop Merlyn from achieving his goals and totally winning in the end.

It's going to require more than just finding Joker for Oliver to win, he'd need to cover all bases and predict Joker's every move to make sure he doesn't do anything devastating, and Oliver simply is not capable of that.

Nolan's Batman and CW's Ollie aren't really comparable. Ollie would have killed him in that first encounter. A huge chunk of those people would still be alive and Harvey wouldn't have been driven crazy. Also the Joker doesn't even kill 20 people so I'm not sure where you got dozens from.

Merlyn was much smarter and better equipped to plan than the Joker was. I consider him to be Ollie's superior in a hand to hand situation as well. Ledger's Joker was nothing special. Ollie just has to find him.

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SoA

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#20  Edited By SoA
No Caption Provided

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nickzambuto

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@nickzambuto said:

@allstarsuperman said:

@pokeysteve said:

As long as he can find him, Ollie. Both rounds. Easily.

It's far from that simple. Batman found Joker in TDK, even took him down and brought him to jail. Yet who actually won between them? Joker murdered dozens of civilians, killed Batman's love, and corrupted Gotham's white night.

This is comparable to the first season of Arrow. Oliver found Malcolm and even defeated him, yet that didn't stop Merlyn from achieving his goals and totally winning in the end.

It's going to require more than just finding Joker for Oliver to win, he'd need to cover all bases and predict Joker's every move to make sure he doesn't do anything devastating, and Oliver simply is not capable of that.

Nolan's Batman and CW's Ollie aren't really comparable. Ollie would have killed him in that first encounter. A huge chunk of those people would still be alive and Harvey wouldn't have been driven crazy. Also the Joker doesn't even kill 20 people so I'm not sure where you got dozens from.

Merlyn was much smarter and better equipped to plan than the Joker was. I consider him to be Ollie's superior in a hand to hand situation as well. Ledger's Joker was nothing special. Ollie just has to find him.

Oliver doesn't kill anymore so it's not that simple. You might be underestimating the Joker's intelligence, he was definitely on par with his comic book counterpart. I'm the guy who thinks Arrow would solo just about every fighter in the Nolanverse, but in this scenario, he's at a disadvantage.

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Pokeysteve

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@pokeysteve said:

@nickzambuto said:

@allstarsuperman said:

@pokeysteve said:

As long as he can find him, Ollie. Both rounds. Easily.

It's far from that simple. Batman found Joker in TDK, even took him down and brought him to jail. Yet who actually won between them? Joker murdered dozens of civilians, killed Batman's love, and corrupted Gotham's white night.

This is comparable to the first season of Arrow. Oliver found Malcolm and even defeated him, yet that didn't stop Merlyn from achieving his goals and totally winning in the end.

It's going to require more than just finding Joker for Oliver to win, he'd need to cover all bases and predict Joker's every move to make sure he doesn't do anything devastating, and Oliver simply is not capable of that.

Nolan's Batman and CW's Ollie aren't really comparable. Ollie would have killed him in that first encounter. A huge chunk of those people would still be alive and Harvey wouldn't have been driven crazy. Also the Joker doesn't even kill 20 people so I'm not sure where you got dozens from.

Merlyn was much smarter and better equipped to plan than the Joker was. I consider him to be Ollie's superior in a hand to hand situation as well. Ledger's Joker was nothing special. Ollie just has to find him.

Oliver doesn't kill anymore so it's not that simple. You might be underestimating the Joker's intelligence, he was definitely on par with his comic book counterpart. I'm the guy who thinks Arrow would solo just about every fighter in the Nolanverse, but in this scenario, he's at a disadvantage.

I know he doesn't but the OP is win by death only with Ollie looking to "take him out".

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frozen

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#23 frozen  Moderator

If Ollie can exactly pin-point Joker and get a good distance, then he wins. But if it ends up like the climax of The Dark Knight, Ollie might lack the gear to really compensate in such an environment / situation.

Ollie was definitely more emotional than Movie Batman with his family/friends, but also more ruthless.

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nickzambuto

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#25  Edited By nickzambuto

@leo-343 said:

@nickzambuto said:

@pokeysteve said:

@nickzambuto said:

@allstarsuperman said:

@pokeysteve said:

As long as he can find him, Ollie. Both rounds. Easily.

It's far from that simple. Batman found Joker in TDK, even took him down and brought him to jail. Yet who actually won between them? Joker murdered dozens of civilians, killed Batman's love, and corrupted Gotham's white night.

This is comparable to the first season of Arrow. Oliver found Malcolm and even defeated him, yet that didn't stop Merlyn from achieving his goals and totally winning in the end.

It's going to require more than just finding Joker for Oliver to win, he'd need to cover all bases and predict Joker's every move to make sure he doesn't do anything devastating, and Oliver simply is not capable of that.

Nolan's Batman and CW's Ollie aren't really comparable. Ollie would have killed him in that first encounter. A huge chunk of those people would still be alive and Harvey wouldn't have been driven crazy. Also the Joker doesn't even kill 20 people so I'm not sure where you got dozens from.

Merlyn was much smarter and better equipped to plan than the Joker was. I consider him to be Ollie's superior in a hand to hand situation as well. Ledger's Joker was nothing special. Ollie just has to find him.

Oliver doesn't kill anymore so it's not that simple. You might be underestimating the Joker's intelligence, he was definitely on par with his comic book counterpart. I'm the guy who thinks Arrow would solo just about every fighter in the Nolanverse, but in this scenario, he's at a disadvantage.

There's no doubt he's intelligent but here's my opinion; his plan needed an awful amount of luck, knowing the exact route the cops would take Harvey, and not factoring in they could have just gone around the other way but lacked the common sense to do so, guessing correctly when he'd be arrested, knowing when Batman would join the interrogation at the time so perfectly convenient that either Rachel or Harvey would definitely die before anyone got to them, somehow sneaking in enough TNT to completely level a hospital with absolutely no one noticing or even asking questions- same with the boat to a lesser degree.

He's good but chance played a large role.

Or maybe he was just THAT intelligent that he could so perfectly predict and manipulate everything that happened.

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TraGiC_JoHNSoN

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@nickzambuto: Oliver preaches that but does the opposite. He killed the militia soldiers with his makeshift bow and killed the rest with a pistol.

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nickzambuto

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@nickzambuto: Oliver preaches that but does the opposite. He killed the militia soldiers with his makeshift bow and killed the rest with a pistol.

Prove that he killed any of them.

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Why else would they be limp on the ground from arrows and bullets to the torso? I can't find the clip on youtube but none of the shots were in the legs.

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ScouterV

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@nickzambuto: Joker beat Batman for real or are we talking one pf those things where, even though Joker was caught, because he proved a point he "won?"

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nickzambuto

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@scouterv said:

@nickzambuto: Joker beat Batman for real or are we talking one pf those things where, even though Joker was caught, because he proved a point he "won?"

The latter. I don't see why that doesn't constitute as winning though, proving that point was the whole basis of his battle with Batman.

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ScouterV

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@scouterv said:

@nickzambuto: Joker beat Batman for real or are we talking one pf those things where, even though Joker was caught, because he proved a point he "won?"

The latter. I don't see why that doesn't constitute as winning though, proving that point was the whole basis of his battle with Batman.

Because, if Batman breaks everyone bone in Joker's body and Joker ends up only being able to eat through a tube for the rest of his life, before being thrown into Arkham to rot, but Joker proved his point by saying he made Batman scar him for life or something, who walks away the victor?

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Jacthripper

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@scouterv: If Joker actually succeeded in making Batman lose his cool, or y'know, made him give up being Batman, that kinda counts as a win.

As to the rest of the battle Oliver's morals won't let him kill, so he can't win.

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ScouterV

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@scouterv: If Joker actually succeeded in making Batman lose his cool, or y'know, made him give up being Batman, that kinda counts as a win.

As to the rest of the battle Oliver's morals won't let him kill, so he can't win.

Kinda...but not really. I doubt that putting an end to the Joker while still letting him live would be cause to hang-up the cowl, unless he physically couldn't do it any more.

And Oliver has shown he will kill when he has to. Even after he killed people, when The Count looked like he was going to kill Felicity, he sent him flying out a window. No doubt if Joker tried it, he would do the same thing.

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Jacthripper

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@scouterv: Oliver hasn't killed base humans since Season 1, and Felicity isn't here.

TDK Jokers plan did result in Batman hanging up the cowl, and he got away.

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nickzambuto

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@scouterv said:

@nickzambuto said:

@scouterv said:

@nickzambuto: Joker beat Batman for real or are we talking one pf those things where, even though Joker was caught, because he proved a point he "won?"

The latter. I don't see why that doesn't constitute as winning though, proving that point was the whole basis of his battle with Batman.

Because, if Batman breaks everyone bone in Joker's body and Joker ends up only being able to eat through a tube for the rest of his life, before being thrown into Arkham to rot, but Joker proved his point by saying he made Batman scar him for life or something, who walks away the victor?

But Batman didn't do that, he just imprisoned Joker who didn't even care to escape. Joker was the victor because he got what he wanted and Batman failed to stop him.

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ScouterV

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@nickzambuto: Sounds more like a loss, since...ya know, he's in jail.

On some philosophical level, it may be a win, but it's a sorry one.

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@jacthripper: If given the propper incentive Oliver will kill. He doesn't like to, but put people he cares about in danger, he will shoot to kill, and Joker still went to jail and Batman came back.

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nickthedevil

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Ollie lacks the intelligence, wit and gear to take down a readied Joker.

Joker will have traps, he will have plans, and they are not within ollie's capability to escape...

Ledger Joker takes out CW Arrow.

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Jacthripper

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@scouterv: Batman only came back after the Joker was gone though, and Joker is a prep master, he could just force Oliver choose between dying and letting Laurel die, or something like that, it's very likely.

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#41  Edited By EclipseBat

I love CW Arrow to death, but Joker wins both rounds. I do not see him winning against the man who can bring any city to it's knees.

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Joker...

You have failed this city.

Ollie wins.

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Frisky4

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Arrow both rounds.

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Namor_Curry

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Joker both rounds.

Oliver Queen does not have the wits of Bruce Wayne. Starling City burns.

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this is a really interesting battle.

Round 1: Arrow most likely

Round 2: Joker. He has better plans than anyone we've seen in the Arrowverse so far.

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@stormdriven said:
  1. I think Oliver skates by with a close win
  2. Joker should take this one handily.

I change my response to this. ^ Movie Joker was pretty deadly. And if Oliver doesn't have Felicity or even Diggle, it just makes it worse for Ollie both rounds.

Round 1 Ollie can take it, because he's proven himself very fluidly against fodder and generally overcoming the odds.

L. D.

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Oliver would definitely win if they met face to face but I don't think he could stop any of the Joker's schemes.