Armored Titan vs Jaws Titan

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#1 Posted by Life_Without_Progress (25379 posts) - - Show Bio
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Armored Titan

VS

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Jaws Titan (Porco Galliard)

In character

Winner by KO, Incapacitation or Death

Random encounter

Standard gear and abilities

Fight takes place at an uninhabited Marley at night

Who'd win? For what reasons?

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#3 Posted by jashugan (6652 posts) - - Show Bio

armored titan smashes his head like hardened attack titan did. A stomp thread.

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#4 Edited by Azureus (2930 posts) - - Show Bio

@jashugan said:

armored titan smashes his head like hardened attack titan did. A stomp thread.

Uh what? The Jaw Titan only went down because Mikasa slashed his legs off and left him unable to escape. Prior to this he gave Eren quite a bit of trouble, and Eren was a far better fighter CQC fighter than Reiner prior to the time skip.

This is by no means a stomp thread.

OT: Reiner takes it in a hard fight.

Edit: Nvm, Porco might actually win here.

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#5 Posted by SleepingSlaves (1085 posts) - - Show Bio

I really need to get around to reading AOT.

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#6 Posted by jashugan (6652 posts) - - Show Bio

@azureus: That's because the attack titan didn't know how the Jaw titan fights, unlike Reiner that does know how the Jaw titan fights.

CQC against peer sized opponents isn't as important when the Jaw titan is less than half their torso size.

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#7 Posted by Azureus (2930 posts) - - Show Bio

@jashugan:

That knowledge helps with literally nothing as Reiner himself knew that Ymir was too fast him to fight effectively, and she couldn't even use the Jaw's powers to the same extent that Porco can.

CQC against peer sized opponents isn't as important when the Jaw titan is less than half their torso size.

That's not what I mean. Eren found himself getting shredded when fighting Porco. Eren is a better CQC fighter than Reiner. That means Porco defintely has an advantage here. Armor won't save Reiner from damage, since The Jaw titan can claw and bite clean through hardened Titan skin.

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#8 Posted by jashugan (6652 posts) - - Show Bio

@azureus: "CQC fighter" does not get applied acroos the board, Eren in that fight didn't do anything Reiner didn't regularly do nor was he was protected as Reiner.

All the Jaw titan did was scratch an unarmored Eren's face and bite his hands. Even at that, he had the advantage of jumping at Eren from a building, something that isn't guaranteed in this scenario.

In general Reiner is just far stronger, far tougher while still having more than enough regeneration. He won't harm Reiner anywhere near as bad Eren due to armor and just one step from Reiner can destroy him.

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#9 Posted by Helloman (30115 posts) - - Show Bio

Stalemate.

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#10 Posted by Ultimate702 (326 posts) - - Show Bio

Porco wins.

Reiner couldn't even beat Eren, and Eren only beat Porco because of Mikasa's assistance. Porco's Jaws can crunch through the armor no problem. Why? Because it crunched threw the Warhammer's crystallization. Porco is also too fast for Reiner. I see no way Reiner wins. He hasn't ever won a fight lol and certainly isn't winning here.

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#11 Posted by Azureus (2930 posts) - - Show Bio

@jashugan:

"CQC fighter" does not get applied acroos the board..

And why is that?

Eren in that fight didn't do anything Reiner didn't regularly do nor was he was protected as Reiner.

Not sure what the first part means, but the second point is null and void. Porco crunched through Eren's hardened fists and his claws sliced through hardened Titan skin. Protection here is worthless.

All the Jaw titan did was scratch an unarmored Eren's face...

He could do more...and actually did more, but was forced to retreat as Mikasa jumped in.

and bite his hands.

Which again, were armored by the very same material that punches straight through Reiners armor.

Even at that, he had the advantage of jumping at Eren from a building...

Before being punched, and using Eren's body as foothold.

something that isn't guaranteed in this scenario.

That's not a problem at all.

In general Reiner is just far stronger, far tougher while still having more than enough regeneration.

While true, this won't take out Porco. He's fast enough to outright run circles around Reiner, who virtually unprotected to every Titan that can harden their bodies.

He won't harm Reiner anywhere near as bad Eren due to armor...

Null and void. The Jaws weapons are a hard counter to this.

and just one step from Reiner can destroy him.

If it ever lands...which considering Reiner's history with slower opponent....not happening.

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#12 Edited by jashugan (6652 posts) - - Show Bio

@azureus:

And why is that?

They were trained to fight human shaped opponents which the jaw titan isn't. It's why all ERen did was stomp on him, something Reiner has shown the ability to do.

Not sure what the first part means, but the second point is null and void. Porco crunched through Eren's hardened fists and his claws sliced through hardened Titan skin. Protection here is worthless.

Which again, were armored by the very same material that punches straight through Reiners armor.

So worthless that Eren killed him by grabbing on him and stomping him. Porco is small, he can only bite something the mass of eren's hand.

He could do more...and actually did more, but was forced to retreat as Mikasa jumped in.

Coulda woulda shoulda. We're having another fight with Eren and jaws titan again soon and it will likely be another eren win with something like a glancing blow.

While true, this won't take out Porco. He's fast enough to outright run circles around Reiner, who virtually unprotected to every Titan that can harden their bodies.

Null and void. The Jaws weapons are a hard counter to this.

One, Reiner has the best durability feats of all titan shifters. Two, scratching Reiner anywhere is not going to put him down. Biting his hand is just going to allow Reiner to slam or punch porco.

If it ever lands...which considering Reiner's history with slower opponent....not happening.

Reiner has never fought a slower enemy. Everyone he's fought has been faster than him. All the survey corps are faster than him with their ODM gear, Female titan is far faster than him, Eren isn't armored so he's much more nimble than him, etc.

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#13 Posted by BrainDrain (949 posts) - - Show Bio

I really have to catch up AOT is gonna be top 5 Anime/Manga of all time before it's over.

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#14 Posted by Azureus (2930 posts) - - Show Bio

@jashugan:

They were trained to fight human shaped opponents which the jaw titan isn't.

What are you talking about? First off all, of Marley's Warriors underwent the same training exercises. The only difference is that each Titan has a specific job it adapts to in the Marleyan Army.

Second, we've already seen Porco fight, and he's had no trouble fighting "human shaped" opponents.

It's why all Eren did was stomp on him something Reiner has shown the ability to do.

Not entirely correct, but I'll address that below. By the way, Eren only managed to beat Porco because Mikasa cut off the Jaw's legs and the Attack Titan stepped in when he was already down. So no, Reiner has to catch him first.

So worthless that Eren killed him...

No.

by grabbing on him and stomping him.

No, Eren only ripped off Porco's limbs. His foot was only the Jaw's body to keep it place. He then smashed the Jaw's head into the ground (the blow was hard enough to break the Titan's armored face) to concuss him before attempting eat him.

Porco is small, he can only bite something the mass of eren's hand.

And more importantly the nape...

Coulda woulda shoulda. We're having another fight with Eren and jaws titan again soon and it will likely be another eren win with something like a glancing blow.

He was never even taken out with a glancing blow when Eren attacked Liberio...

One, Reiner has the best durability feats of all titan shifters.

This hardly even matters anymore because The Porco can just slash or bite off the armor really.

Two, scratching Reiner anywhere is not going to put him down.

Well scratching is certainly not going to end the fight, unless he manages to blind Reiner, but taking a chunk off his nape will.

Biting his hand is just going to allow Reiner to slam or punch porco.

If Reiner could even react.

Reiner has never fought a slower enemy. Everyone he's fought has been faster than him. All the survey corps are faster than him with their ODM gear, Female titan is far faster than him, Eren isn't armored so he's much more nimble than him, etc.

That's not what I meant. Enemies slower than the Jaw Titan, which is literally everyone in the verse barring Levi. I don't think Reiner is slower than Eren. They should be roughly even with the armor on his legs shed. Eren is just more skilled at H2H. The same should hold true for Annie, but she is slimer and smaller so you may be right.

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#15 Posted by jashugan (6652 posts) - - Show Bio

@azureus:

What are you talking about? First off all, of Marley's Warriors underwent the same training exercises. The only difference is that each Titan has a specific job it adapts to in the Marleyan Army.

Yea, the training they went through isn't optimal for fighting much smaller opponents. Hence eren stomping on him, a basic maneuver reiner can do.

Second, we've already seen Porco fight, and he's had no trouble fighting "human shaped" opponents.

Of course. The 15 meter titans are 3 times his size, they're easier for him to hit. It doesn't mean he can easily kill them.

Well scratching is certainly not going to end the fight, unless he manages to blind Reiner, but taking a chunk off his nape will.

This hardly even matters anymore because The Porco can just slash or bite off the armor really.

That is way easier said than done, just like overrating Porco's speed. There's a reason that didn't even come close to happening to Eren nor will it happen to Eren in their upcoming round 2 fight. Porco is nowhere near as powerful as you believe him to be, that's why the Jaws titan isn't one of the most powerful titan shifters.

No, Eren only ripped off Porco's limbs. His foot was only the Jaw's body to keep it place. He then smashed the Jaw's head into the ground (the blow was hard enough to break the Titan's armored face) to concuss him before attempting eat him.

Good, then reiner will rip off Porco's limbs then. Keep in mind, Eren there wasn't even trying to kill porco, rather use him to kill the Warhammer titan.

Breaking part of the Armored titan's face never put him down.

If Reiner could even react.

He will, just like Eren did.

Enemies slower than the Jaw Titan, which is literally everyone in the verse barring Levi.

And mikasa, and the cart titan.

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#16 Posted by Azureus (2930 posts) - - Show Bio

@jashugan:

Yea, the training they went through isn't optimal for fighting much smaller opponents. Hence eren stomping on him, a basic maneuver reiner can do.

What does this have to do with anything? As far as I'm concerned Porco still has the CQC advantage here.

Of course. The 15 meter titans are 3 times his size, they're easier for him to hit. It doesn't mean he can easily kill them.

No one said Porco would easily kill 15 metre class Titans. That's not anywhere near what I said.

That is way easier said than done, just like overrating Porco's speed.

Numerous statements including Reiner's own admission that the Jaw Titan was too fast for any other Titan except the Cart to deal with and this was against Ymir, who Mikasa noted to be slower than Porco.

Then we have Porco dodging an attacks from Mikasa and leaping toward Eren, biting off his fist and switching position to launch 3 attacks, of which Eren was only able to react after he had already struck twice, and leap away in the space of time it takes Mikasa to relaunch another assault.

Reiner is getting blitzed.

There's a reason that didn't even come close to happening to Eren nor will it happen to Eren in their upcoming round 2 fight. Porco is nowhere near as powerful as you believe him to be, that's why the Jaws titan isn't one of the most powerful titan shifters.

The only thing I believe here is that he can harm the armored Titan, and is too fast for Reiner to even deal with. Both are backed in the series.

Good, then reiner will rip off Porco's limbs then.

You seem to forget, that Reiner is not tagging him. The only way this is even a valid point is if Reiner can catch him to begin with, and that's already unlikely.

Keep in mind, Eren there wasn't even trying to kill porco, rather use him to kill the Warhammer titan.

What does that even change? Eren was still as ruthless and violent as before regardless of intent.

Breaking part of the Armored titan's face never put him down.

This addresses nothing there.

He will, just like Eren did.

Eren got blitzed by Porco...guy had got his hand crunched off and rendered half blind before he could even move. If your idea of "reacting" is avoiding visual incapacitation at the last second, Reiner is in serious trouble.

And mikasa,

Mikasa was never even able to tag him until he got baited into attacking the evacuation airship. Prior to this, even Mikasa commented on how his speed was on another level to Ymir's titan.

and the cart titan.

Fair enough.

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#17 Posted by jashugan (6652 posts) - - Show Bio

@azureus:

What does this have to do with anything? As far as I'm concerned Porco still has the CQC advantage here.

The only thing I believe here is that he can harm the armored Titan, and is too fast for Reiner to even deal with. Both are backed in the series.

You seem to forget, that Reiner is not tagging him. The only way this is even a valid point is if Reiner can catch him to begin with, and that's already unlikely.

You are forgetting things then. Let me recap: Eren beat the jaw titan with two blows. Even though the Jaw titan had the advantage of smaller size, sharp claws, increased agility, it only took a stop and ripping off it's arms to beat him. Reiner can easily do both of these because he's far more protected than Eren nor will the Jaw titan injure him fatally.

Numerous statements including Reiner's own admission that the Jaw Titan was too fast for any other Titan except the Cart to deal with and this was against Ymir, who Mikasa noted to be slower than Porco.

citation needed. Not like statements can't be wrong because the jaw titan was dealt with and so was the faster Cart titan.

Then we have Porco dodging an attacks from Mikasa and leaping toward Eren, biting off his fist and switching position to launch 3 attacks, of which Eren was only able to react after he had already struck twice, and leap away in the space of time it takes Mikasa to relaunch another assault.

This addresses nothing there.

Eren got blitzed by Porco...guy had got his hand crunched off and rendered half blind before he could even move. If your idea of "reacting" is avoiding visual incapacitation at the last second, Reiner is in serious trouble.

Wow, blitzing and biting a hand. How will Reiner survive that? It's not like he's survived without a head before. It's not like it takes a second to regenerate an eye. It's not like scratching does far different types of damage than a punch.

What does that even change? Eren was still as ruthless and violent as before regardless of intent.

That Eren didn't particularly look for the best way to kill the jaws titan. In a regular battle where was trying to kill him, it would've gone even different and have been in Eren's favor.

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#18 Posted by Azureus (2930 posts) - - Show Bio

@jashugan:

You are forgetting things then. Let me recap: Eren beat the jaw titan with two blows.

Correction: Eren beat a crippled Jaw Titan with two blows.

Even though the Jaw titan had the advantage of smaller size, sharp claws, increased agility,

Every single one of these "advantages" were rendered useless by the fact the Jaw Titan had lost its mobility. I don't know how you can even use this as an example to justify your standpoint, when it is rendered moot by the fact Eren essentially beat a helpless opponent.

it only took a stop and ripping off it's arms to beat him.

It took the loss of it's legs for it to even come to this. What is so hard to understand?

Reiner can easily do both of these...

Yes, we understand the fact that Reiner will stomp a crippled Jaw Titan...can you address how he will even get hold of the opponent who's too fast for him by his own admission?

because he's far more protected than Eren

The Jaw cuts through hardened titan skin like butter. This is moot. A tank provides better protection from Anti-tank rifle bullets than a Kevlar vest. Doesn't change the fact the the bullet will punch right through the hull of a tank regardless.

nor will the Jaw titan injure him fatally.

All it takes is a nape chomp.

Citation needed. Not like statements can't be wrong...

While this is true, they can only be wrong if showings demonstrate something else.

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because the jaw titan was dealt with...

Who dealt with Jaw Titan lol? No one was fast enough.

and so was the faster Cart titan.

Pieck was surrounded by the Survey Corps members and shot down with Thunder spears. Reiner was overwhelmed by farless. Nor is Cart titan faster, it speed was only said to be capable of rivalling the Jaws. In fact, it was stated verbatim that the Jaw was the fastest among then 9 titans by Captain Margath.

Wow, blitzing and biting a hand. How will Reiner survive that?

No one said that will kill him though...

It's not like he's survived without a head before. It's not like it takes a second to regenerate an eye.

It actually take a while for both eyes to regenerate. Atleast one minute according to Petra, but Annie was able to do it in less than 30 seconds by concentrating her efforts in one eye. Regardless, even being blind for 5 seconds is already a problem.

It's not like scratching does far different types of damage than a punch.

Does this have a point, or are you going to continue to be dismissive?

That Eren didn't particularly look for the best way to kill the jaws titan.

I still don't see what changes lol.

In a regular battle where was trying to kill him, it would've gone even different and have been in Eren's favor.

So basically, how it went down before the Jaw Titan lost its legs...with Eren missing a hand and probably blind?

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#19 Posted by jashugan (6652 posts) - - Show Bio

@azureus:

Correction: Eren beat a crippled Jaw Titan with two blows.

Every single one of these "advantages" were rendered useless by the fact the Jaw Titan had lost its mobility. I don't know how you can even use this as an example to justify your standpoint, when it is rendered moot by the fact Eren essentially beat a helpless opponent.

It took the loss of it's legs for it to even come to this. What is so hard to understand?

Who dealt with Jaw Titan lol? No one was fast enough.

A Jaw titan cut in the femur. It was crippled because it kept running.

Yes, we understand the fact that Reiner will stomp a crippled Jaw Titan...can you address how he will even get hold of the opponent who's too fast for him by his own admission?

By throwing a punch. You seem to forget that the jaw titan caught itself on Eren's arm when Eren punched at him, and Eren couldn't follow up with a punch from his left hand because he was holding on to Ms. Tybur. Reiner has two hands free. If one gets caught, the other comes in punching.

The Jaw cuts through hardened titan skin like butter. This is moot. A tank provides better protection from Anti-tank rifle bullets than a Kevlar vest. Doesn't change the fact the the bullet will punch right through the hull of a tank regardless.

It actually take a while for both eyes to regenerate. Atleast one minute according to Petra, but Annie was able to do it in less than 30 seconds by concentrating her efforts in one eye. Regardless, even being blind for 5 seconds is already a problem.

Does this have a point, or are you going to continue to be dismissive?

Do you even read Attack on Titan?

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Chapter 104

The Jaw Titans claws are literally too small to cut deeply into a titan as large or armored as Reiner. Look at how shallow the cuts are on an unarmored Eren's face. It doesn't even cut deep enough to reach his brain or his nape, or the human inside. All this damage you see will be even less on reiner who is fully armored.

FYI, no one fing uses anti tank rifles. We have rocket for that.

All it takes is a nape chomp.

Yeah, Imagine the Jaw titan getting its entire mouth around Reiner's neck. It seemed so simple that it should've happened against Eren, right? oh wait.

Pieck was surrounded by the Survey Corps members and shot down with Thunder spears. Reiner was overwhelmed by farless. Nor is Cart titan faster, it speed was only said to be capable of rivalling the Jaws.

Reiner has never been overwhelmed by far less. The characters that took down Pieck couldn't take down Reiner. Simple.

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#20 Posted by SleepingSlaves (1085 posts) - - Show Bio

After catching up on the series, I can firmly say that Porco would take Reiner down rather easily.

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#21 Posted by Soothing_Sounds (2296 posts) - - Show Bio

@jashugan: but the jaw titan got around erens neck and couldn't homp down for unknown reasons as of now. The jaw titan expressed confusion even though he knew eren had armoring abilities

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#22 Edited by jashugan (6652 posts) - - Show Bio

@soothing_sounds: context matters. Eren is on his knees in the middle of battle trying to eat ms tybur. He isn't expecting or knowing that the jaw titan is running right behind him. This isn't the case for this specific match up since it's a 1 v 1, not 100 v 100 battlefield fight.

He couldn't bite because one jaw was dislocated by levi.

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#23 Posted by Azureus (2930 posts) - - Show Bio

@jashugan:

A Jaw titan cut in the femur.

No, Mikasa cut off one foot slightly above the ankles, and she severed the muscles that bend the knees on the other leg. That means no jumping, running and you can't even hobble. Crippled.

It was crippled because it kept running.

No, it was crippled as soon as Mikasa landed that blow, literally in the same panel as it falls down to the roof of the adjacent building, Eren is already over him ready to strike.

Gallery image 1Gallery image 2

By throwing a punch.

Hold on, let me get this straight, so Reiner is going to overcome the speed gap by throwing a punch? How does that work?

You seem to forget that the jaw titan caught itself on Eren's arm when Eren punched at him, and Eren couldn't follow up with a punch from his left hand because he was holding on to Ms. Tybur.

There's no guarantee that would've made a difference, for all you know, Eren could've gotten his other hand gnawed off too...and this is assuming the faster Porco would've just clung on to his arm as Eren made a follow up move.

Reiner has two hands free. If one gets caught, the other comes in punching.

The faster Jaw Titan reacts accordingly...what then?

The Jaw Titans claws are literally too small to cut deeply into a titan as large or armored as Reiner. Look at how shallow the cuts are on an unarmored Eren's face. It doesn't even cut deep enough to reach his brain or his nape, or the human inside.

They don't need to be that deep. Surface level shallow cuts are enough here lol. No one even suggested the Jaw Titan could claw Reiner to death, so I can't see why this even matters.

All this damage you see will be even less on reiner who is fully armored.

Reiner's armor is literally just a thick layer of hardened skin on his face and is less dense than the War Hammer and Eren's armor. He still ges scratched up regardless.

FYI, no one fing uses anti tank rifles. We have rocket for that.

Shame.

Yeah, Imagine the Jaw titan getting its entire mouth around Reiner's neck.

I see no problem there. Getting behind Reiner shouldn't be too much of a problem, and Reiner's not too big for him to chomp down on, plus the weak spot is already the same size in all titans anyway. Plus he managed against Eren, so getting his mouth around it shouldn't be a problem.

It seemed so simple that it should've happened against Eren, right? oh wait.

It could've happened, not outside the realm of possiblity actually.

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#24 Posted by jashugan (6652 posts) - - Show Bio

@azureus:

Reiner's armor is literally just a thick layer of hardened skin on his face and is less dense than the War Hammer and Eren's armor. He still ges scratched up regardless.

Less dense than Eren's armor, how? Eren's "armor" only covers directly above his knuckels, not even his entire hand and arm like Reiner.

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Seriously, the Jaw titan would only be biting one very small layer on Eren, not even close to as much from Reiner who is far more armored than Eren and outright has better durability feats.

Hold on, let me get this straight, so Reiner is going to overcome the speed gap by throwing a punch? How does that work?

The "speed gap" is non existent if his enemy can't put him down. If the Jaw titan fights like he's been doing so which is going in and grabbing the arm of the larger titan, that just leaves room for Reiner to throw a punch with his other arm.

There's no guarantee that would've made a difference, for all you know, Eren could've gotten his other hand gnawed off too...and this is assuming the faster Porco would've just clung on to his arm as Eren made a follow up move.

The fact that one arm from Eren ripped off the Jaws entire arm shows that if Eren had both hands free, it would make a difference. Jumping away off the arm just means the Jaws causes even less damage.

I see no problem there. Getting behind Reiner shouldn't be too much of a problem, and Reiner's not too big for him to chomp down on, plus the weak spot is already the same size in all titans anyway. Plus he managed against Eren, so getting his mouth around it shouldn't be a problem.

More shoulda woulda coulda. It's a one v one in an open town, getting behind your enemy isn't going to be easy.

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#25 Posted by Azureus (2930 posts) - - Show Bio

@jashugan:

Less dense than Eren's armor, how?

Because Eren concentrates and condenses the hardened skin into his knuckles. Reiner's is like a plate covering a surface. It's how Eren is able to shatter Reiner's armor to begin with.

Eren's "armor" only covers directly above his knuckels, not even his entire hand and arm like Reiner.

That has nothing to do with density though. Overall, Reiner has more armor throughout his body, but that only refers to surface area really, and none of it especially concentrated anywhere.

Seriously, the Jaw titan would only be biting one very small layer on Eren...

Small layer or not plays no factor here. Density and hardness do.

not even close to as much from Reiner who is far more armored than Eren and outright has better durability feats.

We already know for a fact the armor on Eren's fists are harder than the hardened skin covering the Armored Titan.

The "speed gap" is non existent if his enemy can't put him down.

That makes no sense whatsoever. The speed gap remains regardless of what he can do to Reiner. The difference is, it can only be useful, or useless.

If the Jaw titan fights like he's been doing so which is going in and grabbing the arm of the larger titan, that just leaves room for Reiner to throw a punch with his other arm.

And do what exactly? Get another arm bitten off, or give Porco another foothold to maneuver?

The fact that one arm from Eren ripped off the Jaws entire arm shows that if Eren had both hands free, it would make a difference.

And how exactly is that the case? As far as I'm concerned this will only be effective if Eren could get his hands on him.

Jumping away off the arm just means the Jaws causes even less damage.

Why does that matter and why is this the only option? There's many thing it can still do.

More shoulda woulda coulda.

I'm not hypothesizing here, Porco is too fast for Reiner to deal with. So unless you have a reason as to why Reiner can even keep up...he's getting blitzed.

It's a one v one in an open town, getting behind your enemy isn't going to be easy.

But the overwhelming fact is that the Jaw is far faster, and by Reiner's admission anyway.

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#26 Posted by jashugan (6652 posts) - - Show Bio

@azureus:

Because Eren concentrates and condenses the hardened skin into his knuckles. Reiner's is like a plate covering a surface. It's how Eren is able to shatter Reiner's armor to begin with.

Small layer or not plays no factor here. Density and hardness do.

We already know for a fact the armor on Eren's fists are harder than the hardened skin covering the Armored Titan.

He has to concentrate because he doesn't always have armor like Reiner. What is the point of telling us how the power works? Can Reiner damage eren? yes. Can eren damage reiner? yes. Does Reiner's armor have far better feats than Eren's? yes. There is absolutely no dense amount of armor on Eren's knuckles and you haven't proven so.

No we don't, we know that they're hard enough to not shatter when Eren applies enough force behind them to throw a punch.

That has nothing to do with density though. Overall, Reiner has more armor throughout his body, but that only refers to surface area really, and none of it especially concentrated anywhere.

Reiner's armor that covers his body has been shown to be thicker than the armor covering Eren's knuckles.

That makes no sense whatsoever. The speed gap remains regardless of what he can do to Reiner. The difference is, it can only be useful, or useless.

It makes perfect sense. Can't kill your enemy, your supposed speed doesn't matter much.

And do what exactly? Get another arm bitten off, or give Porco another foothold to maneuver?

Yea right. Porco only has one mouth. One mouth on one hand opens him up to be punched

And how exactly is that the case? As far as I'm concerned this will only be effective if Eren could get his hands on him.

What you are concerned with doesn't really matter, what has been shown happening is what does matter. What we saw is that when Eren got his hands on the Jaws he had complete superiority to him. In their brief fight, he only had one hand free and the other hand only for blocking. He couldn't throw any punches with it.

Why does that matter and why is this the only option? There's many thing it can still do.

Like what? Every time not attacking a titan is time that a titan regenerates.

I'm not hypothesizing here, Porco is too fast for Reiner to deal with. So unless you have a reason as to why Reiner can even keep up...he's getting blitzed.

Blitz like Eren was? All three times he had a chance and it didn't happen? Blitz like current manga eren was? who still had enough time to transform even from a sneak attack to his human body by Porco? You comic viners need to come up with far better arguments than a supremely weaker character will win due to a marginal speed and agility advantage, even though it didn't allow them to win in their actual series.

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#27 Posted by Azureus (2930 posts) - - Show Bio

@jashugan:

He has to concentrate because he doesn't always have armor like Reiner.

This is merely stating the obvious, it doesn't counter any point I made. It's not going anywhere.

What is the point of telling us how the power works?

I haven't told how the power works, I've only told you how Eren uses it.

Can Reiner damage eren? yes. Can eren damage reiner? yes. Does Reiner's armor have far better feats than Eren's? yes.

Once again, heading absolutely nowhere.

There is absolutely no dense amount of armor on Eren's knuckles and you haven't proven so.

I have, by paraphrasing what we've already learned in the series. You're just denying it now. The Armor on Eren's hand is denser and stronger than Reiner's armor.

No we don't, we know that they're hard enough to not shatter when Eren applies enough force behind them to throw a punch.

Yes we do. Eren verbatim stated that since his armor is concentrated at the fists, while Reiner's armor is spread all over his body, he's able to smash through it "like a thin layer of ice". I don't know how much more obvious that can get.

Reiner's armor that covers his body has been shown to be thicker than the armor covering Eren's knuckles.

Already contradicted by both showings and what's stated in the series.

It makes perfect sense. Can't kill your enemy, your supposed speed doesn't matter much.

No, it makes no sense. What you said earlier means that speed gap is absent, here you're saying its useless. See the difference?

Yea right. Porco only has one mouth. One mouth on one hand opens him up to be punched

Again, this idea only makes sense if Porco doesn't react to it, by either attacking, or retreating. Either way, Reiner is getting a hand crunched off.

What you are concerned with doesn't really matter...

It does because it's a valid point that you keep ignoring, this will only be deadly if Eren gets his hands on him. You're strictly jumping to a scenario where Eren has Porco restrained and unable to escape. How will Eren/Reiner do the thing you say they will in the first place?

what has been shown happening is what does matter.

And the fact of the matter is neither Eren nor Reiner have ever shown the speed and agility to keep up with, let alone catch the Jaw Titan...so Porco blitzes.

What we saw is that when Eren got his hands on the Jaws he had complete superiority to him.

Again, Eren beat up a crippled Jaw Titan. That's not a feat worthy of praise.

In their brief fight, he only had one hand free and the other hand only for blocking. He couldn't throw any punches with it.

Your point?

Like what?

Attack, Retreat, counterattack or move to a better position? Why are you looking for specific answers?

Every time not attacking a titan is time that a titan regenerates.

That's not even a problem though.

Blitz like Eren was?

Yes.

All three times he had a chance and it didn't happen?

Huh? Porco sneak attack would've ended up with Eren dead. Levi saved him. Later in the battle, Eren is blitzed and is only left with a single hand to fight, and it's pre-occupied with holding the war-hammer. Saved from further damage by Mikasa. Added to the fact, you admitted Eren is faster than Reiner.

Blitz like current manga eren was?

Yes, exactly like that, except he won't miss as he won't be attacking through a wall.

who still had enough time to transform even from a sneak attack to his human body by Porco?

You seem to remember the events differently. Porco broke though the floor and instantly chomped Eren's legs off, but misses the rest of Eren's body. Eren only reacts after Porco had already chomped through his legs, meaning if Porco hadn't missed...Eren would be dead. Plus the only thing Eren did was initiate the Titan transformation, which happens independently of his own control.

You comic viners need to come up with far better arguments than a supremely weaker character will win due to a marginal speed and agility advantage even though it didn't allow them to win in their actual series.

Do you ever make a point that isn't partially ignorant or clearly biased?

1.) Whether you like it or not, you are a "comic viner" as well. We all post on this site do we not? We clearly all don't think the same either, and this conversation is proof of that.

2.) Your point about a "supremely weaker character winning due to a marginal speed and agility advantage" is completely circumstantial and addresses pretty much nothing. Do you have a specific instance, or is this going nowhere?

3.) Porco's speed advantage is not marginal. By feats and statements he's by far faster than either Eren or Reiner, who couldn't even tag characters that slower titan shifters have outpaced.

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#28 Posted by jashugan (6652 posts) - - Show Bio

@azureus: just like I said again, one hit would demolish the jaws titan. Jaw Titan leaping at his target is way too telegraphed and vulnerable that a super weak eren nearly one shotted him with a back handed punch without looking.

Gallery image 1Gallery image 2
Chapter 117

There's nothing more to talk about. He's clearly portrayed as inferior to eren and reiner.

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#29 Posted by Azureus (2930 posts) - - Show Bio

@jashugan:

just like I said again, one hit would demolish the jaws titan.

No one disagreed with the fact that one hit would demolish the jaw titan, though it worth noting that Eren is vastly superior to all other Titan shifters now.

Jaw Titan leaping at his target is way too telegraphed...

Is this a joke or is it another one of your ignorant points, because Porco in this very same chapter avoided multiple attacks from Eren while still moving to attack. Eren only managed to avoid those because of the War-hammer's ability.

and vulnerable that a super weak eren nearly one shotted him with a back handed punch without looking.

Huh? Porco is still around lol, that blow was barely concussive, only strong enough to knock him away, not even put him down. Still though, Eren has shown that he's the strongest shifter by far, so Porco isn't winning against him.

There's nothing more to talk about. He's clearly portrayed as inferior to eren and reiner.

Eren? Sure. Reiner, clearly not. Porco has only been done in by Eren here, and Reiner clearly is no where near that level. He was getting demolished with Eren's basic moveset here. The fact of the matter is Eren is greater than Reiner in virtually every aspect there is here...and his achievements are really his alone.

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#30 Edited by jashugan (6652 posts) - - Show Bio

@azureus: Eren is superior because he can make constructs. Certainly, both he and Reiner are still within the same speed and strength bracket. Beast titan is still physically stronger than Eren, Colossus titan is still physically stronger than Eren.

Eren is in a 2 v 1. Avoiding your enemy for a short time does not allow you to beat them, you will eventually engage where you can't block or dodge forever which is why the Jaws titan always gets destroyed in CQC. Notice how Reiner always lasts the longest in a fight against Eren, while Jaws has to do sneak attacks? It's not gonna happen in a 1v 1.

You'd have to overrate his speed advantage if Eren can smack him down without even looking at him after his head was destroyed.

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#31 Posted by Azureus (2930 posts) - - Show Bio

@jashugan said:

@azureus: Eren is superior because he can make constructs. Certainly, both he and Reiner are still within the same speed and strength bracket. Beast titan is still physically stronger than Eren, Colossus titan is still physically stronger than Eren.

Eren is in a 2 v 1. Avoiding your enemy for a short time does not allow you to beat them, you will eventually engage where you can't block or dodge forever which is why the Jaws titan always gets destroyed in CQC. Notice how Reiner always lasts the longest in a fight against Eren, while Jaws has to do sneak attacks? It's not gonna happen in a 1v 1.

You'd have to overrate his speed advantage if Eren can smack him down without even looking at him after his head was destroyed.

The speed part is certainly debatable because Eren has demolished this man too many times in combat while avoiding injuries himself. Eren's combat speed is above Reiner's, since all that Reiner does now is resort to high speed tackles since anything else gets him pummelled...and outside the colossus titan Eren has the best strength feats, but the rest should still be relative to him except Annie.

The Jaw Titan didn't really engage in Eren in CQC either, that's what Reiner did, well tried to do. He rather spent most of the fight trying to get at Eren's neck before having to evade the constructs Eren produces. Those things materialize faster than Punches, and at one point, he was weaving through them before being driven back or skewered by a second wave. Not surprised Reiner lasts longer against Eren, that's expected he is the TANK of all titans after all.

As for that last part, The Jaw was also injured..it got skewered too remember? Regardless, they were plenty of showings here to show that Porco is quite a bit faster than Reiner. Honestly though this chapter got me shook. Eren is too OP now.

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#32 Edited by jashugan (6652 posts) - - Show Bio

@azureus: Eren's "combat speed" being above Reiner's is negligible as hell. They both always land hits on each other in every single fight they've had. The thing about AOT is that it's fights are more detailed than your standard battle shonen, "throw 1000 punches at each other and perfectly dodge everything fight". Reiner is more of a wrestler, Eren is more of a kick boxer, neither can fight each other without both landing hits on each other. Three fights have shown that now.

To put things in another way, Eren is also slower than the Jaw Titan and has landed hits on him in both their fights now. The excuse last time was that Mikasa cut his femur, yet now even after Eren's head was shot, he still landed a hit on the less injured Jaw Titan. Reiner isn't far below in speed to Eren, he's comparable in every way, Reiner can also throw punches.

Eren was more injured than Jaws. Eren had his head blown twice by artillery, which is far worse than the spikes stabbing Jaws. None of these stopped Eren from still landing a back hand hit on the jaws.

In reality, since you agree that Reiner is tankier than the rest and it's been proven that slower characters than Jaws Titan can in fact hit him and heavily damage him, there's nothing more to be said than Reiner will eventually kill Jaws.

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#33 Posted by Azureus (2930 posts) - - Show Bio

@jashugan:

Eren's "combat speed" being above Reiner's is negligible as hell. They both always land hits on each other in every single fight they've had.

No not really. I agree that they're roughly equal when talking of speed in general. Reiner can probably even outrun Eren if he sheds the armor on his legs. Eren sure as hell isn't going to blitz Reiner, but considering their combat history, it's clear Eren is both quicker and more skilled in his manuevering.

As for the second part of your statement, Reiner has almost never landed a single hit since the moments when Eren would just recklessly charge him, he resorts to tackles to get the job done...and even they aren't reliable now.

The thing about AOT is that it's fights are more detailed than your standard battle shonen, "throw 1000 punches at each other and perfectly dodge everything fight". Reiner is more of a wrestler, Eren is more of a kick boxer, neither can fight each other without both landing hits on each other. Three fights have shown that now.

There's a difference between landing hits and being in contact. I don't recall a single instance when Reiner has done the former recently.

To put things in another way, Eren is also slower than the Jaw Titan and has landed hits on him in both their fights now.

The ONLY time Eren even tagged Porco was in the latest chapter when he backhanded him away. Aside from that, no.

The excuse last time was that Mikasa cut his femur.

Well considering that Porco had a foot lopped off at the shin, and the muscle that flexes the knee was severed...I think its apparent that Eren only took advantage of a foe that was defenseless really.

yet now even after Eren's head was shot, he still landed a hit on the less injured Jaw Titan.

Yes, so what? The same Eren ripped Reiner's upper Jaw off its hinges while still just as injured and partially restrained. Are we about to forget that Porco has evaded Eren's attacks multiple times now?

Reiner isn't far below in speed to Eren, he's comparable in every way, Reiner can also throw punches.

Comparable, yes but even Eren can't easily tag the Jaw Titan.

Eren was more injured than Jaws. Eren had his head blown twice by artillery, which is far worse than the spikes stabbing Jaws. None of these stopped Eren from still landing a back hand hit on the jaws.

Again your point? A Healthy Eren failed tagging the Jaw Titan already.

In reality, since you agree that Reiner is tankier than the rest and it's been proven that slower characters than Jaws Titan can in fact hit him and heavily damage him, there's nothing more to be said than Reiner will eventually kill Jaws.

CAN* is the keyword. I've never once suggested it was beyond the realm of possibilty, I only argued it's very unlikely and favored the Jaw Titan's chances over Reiner's. That's really it. I don't see what this changes to be quite frank.

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#34 Posted by jashugan (6652 posts) - - Show Bio

@azureus: At this point we'll just have to agree too disagree. No offense, but you take too days to respond and I can't be interested in a simple debate like this spanning that long when it's practically resolved in canon.

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#35 Edited by MonkWithNoName (1 posts) - - Show Bio

@azureus: İn chapter 104 Eren actually hit him.He is tough for his size.

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#36 Posted by eri123 (3101 posts) - - Show Bio

Jaw Titan too fast and his claws will cut him easily.

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#37 Posted by WollfMyth209 (17311 posts) - - Show Bio

Strength and durability vs speed and ferociousness.

Either way for me.

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#38 Posted by Zuriel-el (3620 posts) - - Show Bio

Reiner e