Arkham Batman vs Kingpin (PS4)

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RandyButterNubs

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#1  Edited By RandyButterNubs
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  • Standard Gear, current utility belt (Arkham Knight)
  • Both in character
  • Win by KO or Death

Fight takes place in Kingpins office

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Who wins?

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mbatz

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It’s not close Batman would beat the fat out of him, the issue isn’t strength it’s technique Kingpin will not touch Batman as he is too skilled and will KO kingpin, full gear makes it a stomp. Think logically Spider-Man doesn’t use explosives, edge weapons, freeze guns or battle gauntlets in standard gear.

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deactivated-5edbb4007f071

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socajunkie

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#5  Edited By socajunkie  Moderator

Kingpin stomps in a random encounter.

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Mee09

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What gear does Batman have on him? Standard gear for Arkham Batman actually varies greatly. Arkham City Batman has more than enough gear to subdue Kingpin and enough agility to avoid anything fatal.

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ProfessorRespect

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Kingpin wins. Stuff like the Explosive Gel and the Batclaw isn't doing anything here lol

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mbatz

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@professorrespect: That’s like saying kingpin is bullet proof because of he’s comicbook counterpart this kingpin doesn’t have the feats to touch this Batman

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stormshadow_x

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If Bruce doesn't realize king pins power level early he gets surprised knockoiy

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mbatz

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I’m not sure why people started saying King pin wins after that video, Batman fought bane who also throw the MC through a wall, didn’t know walls were important.

Loading Video...

Anyone who’s played the entirety of the Arkham games and spider-man knows King pin gets beaten like venom joker or Bane or Killer croc who are all above King pin.

And to Anyone saying Batman with out knowledge gets KO’d Batman by default doesn’t underestimate people and will avoid being hit by people regardless of the individual

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RBT

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In cqc, Bruce would get wrecked. With gear, he has a shot.

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ProfessorRespect

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@mbatz: It isn't? A Batclaw can't even do anything to the average big thug in Knight lol. Same with the Explosive Gel when used.

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mbatz

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@professorrespect: what are you talking about the explosive gel KO’s multiple people just with in a few metres of him. Explosive gel to the head. State my case. I’m going to bed know 12 am in my time zone

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ProfessorRespect

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@mbatz said:

@professorrespect: what are you talking about the explosive gel KO’s multiple people just with in a few metres of him.

Complete hogwash. Bruce in Knight using the quickfire explosive gel doesn't do anything to average thugs apart from blind them for a bit, and big thugs are strong enough to outright no sell it. Considering this is his Knight suit, I imagine that he'd be using that gear.

Even when he used to spray it on the floor during the old games, it knocked them down, not KO'ing them. Guys like Bane even Venomless completely no sell stuff like that, and I see Kingpin as around that level anyway, perhaps slightly above that considering that amount of abuse he took from Spider-Man.

Explosive gel to the head.

When has Batman ever applied that technique ever? He's never done that due to the explosive gel being stated as incredibly dangerous in close range.

Even if you include him using it on Titan Joker by punching him with the gel on his glove, that was a pretty valid reason to do so considering Titan Joker had completely no sold his offence and was still up and going. I highly doubt that he'd pull it out here on a relatively normal looking guy.

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mexcomics2078

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Fisk

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mbatz

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@mbatz said:

@professorrespect: what are you talking about the explosive gel KO’s multiple people just with in a few metres of him.

Complete hogwash. Bruce in Knight using the quickfire explosive gel doesn't do anything to average thugs apart from blind them for a bit, and big thugs are strong enough to outright no sell it. Considering this is his Knight suit, I imagine that he'd be using that gear.

Even when he used to spray it on the floor during the old games, it knocked them down, not KO'ing them. Guys like Bane even Venomless completely no sell stuff like that, and I see Kingpin as around that level anyway, perhaps slightly above that considering that amount of abuse he took from Spider-Man.

Once again you have delivered one of the most sad argument Ive ever seen in my life. The fact you think explosive gel does nothing means you’ve never played the Arkham series and the amount of people on CV that have is a small number. You can finish an entire mission using only explosive gel KOing everyone.

Loading Video...

So you false accusations are easily debunked in the above video.

@mbatz said:

Explosive gel to the head.

When has Batman ever applied that technique ever? He's never done that due to the explosive gel being stated as incredibly dangerous in close range.

Even if you include him using it on Titan Joker by punching him with the gel on his glove, that was a pretty valid reason to do so considering Titan Joker had completely no sold his offence and was still up and going. I highly doubt that he'd pull it out here on a relatively normal looking guy.

At the end of the day it doesnt change the fact Titan Joker was on stronger stuff than joker, Bane threw Batman threw a wall, Fisk ran Spider-man through a wall, Titan joker is stronger than Bane.
Titan Joker>Bane>>>Fisk

Even if we put fisk at Titan Joker level which he isn’t, he‘s not even at Bane level, but if we did Batman can still use explosive gel to the face to win easily. And Batman doesn’t even use the most potent explosive Gel. Explosive gel can blow up entire aerial drones made from metal obliterating it and said aerial drones take multiple shots from the batmobiles machine guns. Batman goes easy on people he can literally place explosive gel and wait for Fisk to be near enough so that it doesn’t kill him but KO’s him. You got nothing on me

Batman would win spare me you opinions, Fisk wouldn’t even be able to grab someone like Batman, he only grabbed Spider-Man because of dramatic effect it brought, Batman wouldn’t put himself in the situation not even in cinematic scenes.

Batman Wins

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ProfessorRespect

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#19  Edited By ProfessorRespect

@mbatz said:
@professorrespect said:
@mbatz said:

@professorrespect: what are you talking about the explosive gel KO’s multiple people just with in a few metres of him.

Complete hogwash. Bruce in Knight using the quickfire explosive gel doesn't do anything to average thugs apart from blind them for a bit, and big thugs are strong enough to outright no sell it. Considering this is his Knight suit, I imagine that he'd be using that gear.

Even when he used to spray it on the floor during the old games, it knocked them down, not KO'ing them. Guys like Bane even Venomless completely no sell stuff like that, and I see Kingpin as around that level anyway, perhaps slightly above that considering that amount of abuse he took from Spider-Man.

Once again you have delivered one of the most sad argument Ive ever seen in my life.

You've not seen much then tbh

The fact you think explosive gel does nothing

I never said this, so well done, you've already debunked yourself, lol.

means you’ve never played the Arkham series and the amount of people on CV that have is a small number.

I played all of the Arkham games on their original platforms (including most of the original DLC that came out for them) AND bought the remasters as well. Nice try with the guess through, lol.

You can finish an entire mission using only explosive gel KOing everyone.

Yeah, WITH WALLS. Read my argument again lol, I said QUICKFIRE EXPLOSIVE GEL. You completely misread my argument and go with a bogus strawman instead.

Loading Video...

So you false accusations are easily debunked in the above video.

Your argument literally debunks itself. It's based on stuff I didn't even say.

And I think you will find that yes, Batman using the gel in combat can't knock out the average thug and does actually nothing to big thugs.

Even if we take stealth takedowns from walls to account.....so? Have you seen the place where he's fighting? There's no place for him to do something like this.

@professorrespect said:
@mbatz said:

Explosive gel to the head.

When has Batman ever applied that technique ever? He's never done that due to the explosive gel being stated as incredibly dangerous in close range.

Even if you include him using it on Titan Joker by punching him with the gel on his glove, that was a pretty valid reason to do so considering Titan Joker had completely no sold his offence and was still up and going. I highly doubt that he'd pull it out here on a relatively normal looking guy.

At the end of the day it doesnt change the fact Titan Joker was on stronger stuff than joker,

I think you meant to say Bane here. If so, yes, I do agree that Joker on Titan is a lot more powerful than Venom Bane, even when he used a prototype of Titan.

Bane threw Batman threw a wall,

Through a wall, you mean? Bane also has other feats of picking up a entire car in Assault on Arkham as well.

Fisk ran Spider-man through a wall,

And he took dozens of punches from Spider-Man, AND also tossed Peter like he was nothing hard enough through another wall as well. Don't forget he was literally bouncing off the ground from massive fails and was still capable of fighting Spider-Man.

Titan joker is stronger than Bane.

By intent, sure, but by feats, there's nothing much saying this considering Joker was getting hurt by far less than Bane.

Titan Joker>Bane>>>Fisk

Not convinced by your frankly one dimensional scaling there.

he‘s not even at Bane level,

Venom Bane, Venomless Bane, or this is after the TN-1 injection? No idea which version you are talking about here.

but if we did Batman can still use explosive gel to the face to win easily.

He never does this often and only did this once in the face of a foe that had already no sold all of his offence. He does not pull it out casually considering the risk it places the person being punched (if it was enough to hurt Titan Joker, how would a normal thug react to that attack?)

And Batman doesn’t even use the most potent explosive Gel.

Yeah, he uses very little due to it being high risk, as I said.

Explosive gel can blow up entire aerial drones made from metal obliterating it and said aerial drones take multiple shots from the batmobiles machine guns.

Cool.

Batman goes easy on people he can literally place explosive gel and wait for Fisk to be near enough

So Fisk is just going to sit around and wait for Bruce to spray the gel on the floor, and then be dumb enough to then step on it? Come on. This is a bit silly here.

Fisk wouldn’t even be able to grab someone like Batman,

Based on what? Bruce needs dozens of strikes to bring down average big thugs, and Kingpin ain't a average thug lol. His stats are impressive for what little he had on screen. Fisk gets his hands on Bruce and it is basically done unless he can use a smoke grenade.

he only grabbed Spider-Man because of dramatic effect it brought,

Based on? This is complete hogwash.

Batman wouldn’t put himself in the situation not even in cinematic scenes.

He doesn't need to put himself in that situation- Fisk closing the distance will.

Read my argument properly this time if you want to respond lol. Having to discuss opinions that I don't have isn't exactly fun.

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mbatz

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@professorrespect:

Its funny how you say quick fire gel is what you are talking about and I’m debunking myself but you literally say

@mbatz: It isn't? A Batclaw can't even do anything to the average big thug in Knight lol. Same with the Explosive Gel when used.

So your a lier and even if you did mean quick fire gel, the explosive gel in high potency would KO fisk indefinitely of it can blow up a drone

Now unless you can prove Fisk has superior durability to a metal drone then no Batman is bashing him

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ProfessorRespect

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#21  Edited By ProfessorRespect

@mbatz said:

@professorrespect:

Its funny how you say quick fire gel is what you are talking about and I’m debunking myself but you literally say

@professorrespect said:

@mbatz: It isn't? A Batclaw can't even do anything to the average big thug in Knight lol. Same with the Explosive Gel when used.

So your a lier

Wait, so that first comment IS valid, but the one where I go into more detail about how the gel functions and how it works in the different games isn't? Interesting view there. And by "interesting", I mean cherry-picking.

Also, it's liar.

and even if you did mean quick fire gel,

Which I obviously did based on the fact I spelled it out in two comments now but sure

the explosive gel in high potency would KO fisk indefinitely of it can blow up a drone

Yeah, but as stated, Bruce uses low potency gel as it is incredibly dangerous to both himself and others when used at high potency. In character, he has never done this outside of the drone feats you already stated, and I highly doubt he'd randomly start doing it now to this regular looking big guy. If it was morals off, you'd have a strong point, but he isn't.

Now unless you can prove Fisk has superior durability to a metal drone then no Batman is bashing him

Unless you can prove Batman would be incredibly willing to use lethal amounts of gel on a guy who he has no prior knowledge of right off the bat for no reason, this argument kinda debunks itself.

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asgardianweapon

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@mbatz: It isn't? A Batclaw can't even do anything to the average big thug in Knight lol. Same with the Explosive Gel when used.

always found the first thing funny like batman trains all his life, under many masters, is outright superhuman can bend metal, break bats (lol) with his knees.

random gotham big boy: is big


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ProfessorRespect

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#23  Edited By ProfessorRespect

@asgardianweapon: Yeah that logic has always been funny to me lol. He's a master of the martial arts, one of the best known in the world with a body capable of great feats of strength, but the average big thug slaps him if he tries to pull them with the Batclaw easily

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socajunkie

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#24 socajunkie  Moderator

@professorrespect: That’s just the way gameplay mechanics are fortunately from a gameplay perspective and unfortunately from a narrative and consistency viewpoint.

This is really glaring in PS4 Spider-Man where normal sized thugs can block Spider-Man’s hits with a pipe and ‘big’ thugs can block Peter with just their arms...then again going around one-shotting everyone because you’re a superhuman amongst normal people wouldn’t be very entertaining.

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_Logos_

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Well Batman has struggled against superhuman foes like Killer Croc and Grundy at close range. Croc in Arkham Asylum easily ran through walls of pipework. He's only been able to get away with the help of the environment around him against those foes. However, in Arkham Knight with the help of Nightwing he's been able to put down Killer Croc by beating on him. Kingpin is way stronger than Croc, and a bit more durable, but I think Batman could probably do some minor damage to him like he does in Arkham Knight to Croc. Regardless he's going to have to rely more on his gadgets...

Loading Video...

If Freeze Blast works on Kingpin, then Batman might be able to freeze Kingpin in place and damage him at a time with his beat downs. He'd have to escape and come back and forth, but it would have to be done very carefully. He'd also have to apply damage with explosive gel from time to time just to do enough damage. I'd say with his gadgets Arkham Batman could beat Kingpin 2/10 times it would take a flawless retreat and attack method to even have a chance of surviving. What makes this even worse is that it's in Kingpin's office, and he has no vantage point to escape to to avoid any traps or turrets Kingpin might have implemented.

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jayskee

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Fisk

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BacktoBasic301

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Batman has beaten Titan beasts pretty easily who should be on par with Fisk in power levels not to mention Bane, Killer Croc and Solomon Grundy who he's all beaten.

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D00mSlayer1993

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Batman

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ProfessorRespect

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Batman has beaten Titan beasts pretty easily

He has, but he needed dozens of strikes to bring them down, as well as the fact that they are mindless and could be easily tricked using gear or being stunned. Fisk isn't the same case.

not to mention Bane,

Who beat the crap outta Batman in Origins before he even got his TN-1 amp and needed specialised gear to defeat, who Bruce needed the Batmobile to take out in Asylum and had to be tricked in City. He never beat Bane with his own gear 1 v 1.

Killer Croc

Who Batman needed to run from in Asylum due to being too strong, and when they met in Knight he needed Nightwing's assistance to defeat. The only time he defeated Croc was in Origins, and we can all agree that he was significantly weaker there than in even Asylum. Again, he never beat Croc in a straight up fight.

and Solomon Grundy

Grundy was already dying when Bruce met him. All he did was destroy the machine keeping Grundy alive and then ripped out his heart when he tried to attach himself to the machine. Is crushing the rib-cage of someone who's been dead for hundreds of years impressive? Not exactly.

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deactivated-627d8daf1de25

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Fisk wrecks if he closes in, though Bruce has a chance if he keeps at range like he did with Grundy.

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Ready_4_Madness

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Batman

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NerdyBoi

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Batman stomps hard

Batman has better feats, he's smarter,faster,more skilled, more durable, the ojnly thing fisk has on his is strength and Batman is still decently strong.

Batman also has his gadgets which tip this in his favor.

Batman would beat Kingpin.Think of kingpin as a two armed no hammer and beefed up Mr.Hammer from arkham city.

Also freeze blast would make this a stomp.

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raimundopedrosa

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Kingpin was a tough match for Spiderman. He kills Batman.

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Zafros13

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#35  Edited By Zafros13  Online

I'll say Batman. Spider-man was pulling his punches. Batman has alot of experience against this type of enemy. Fought 2 titans at the same time while already having a really long night.

When Batman struggled with Bane it was an inexperienced Batman.

But Kingpin is probably faster then any of Batman's brutes.

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ProfessorRespect

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@zafros13 said:

I'll say Batman. Spider-man was pulling his punches. Batman has alot of experience against this type of enemy. Fought 2 titans at the same time while already having a really long night.

But Kingpin is probably faster then any of Batman's brutes.

There's no evidence of this claim in particular and Titans are mindless brutes that can't really do a lot for big guys.

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the_wspanialy

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#37  Edited By the_wspanialy

Lol.

Batman owns. Fisk would, at best, qualify as a random TITAN-enhanced thug in Arkhamverse.

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PaleBlood

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Fisk ragdolls him.

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ProfessorRespect

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#39  Edited By ProfessorRespect
@the_wspanialy said:

Lol.

Batman owns. Fisk would, at best, qualify as a random TITAN-enhanced thug in Arkhamverse.

Batman owns with those non-existent feats he has, sure. Any random thug can brawl with Spidey for a extended length of time and survive bone-breaking sheer drops.

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the_wspanialy

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@the_wspanialy said:

Lol.

Batman owns. Fisk would, at best, qualify as a random TITAN-enhanced thug in Arkhamverse.

Batman owns with those non-existent feats he has, sure. Any random thug can brawl with Spidey for a extended length of time and survive bone-breaking sheer drops.

Batman has beaten TITAN-enhanced thugs. Repeatedly, in numbers, and after going through a combat marathon in Arkham Asylum. You have clearly never played these games. You really shouldn't talk about things you've no clue about.

Yes, especially those armed with all-mighty crowbars.

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ProfessorRespect

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#41  Edited By ProfessorRespect
@the_wspanialy said:
@professorrespect said:
@the_wspanialy said:

Lol.

Batman owns. Fisk would, at best, qualify as a random TITAN-enhanced thug in Arkhamverse.

Batman owns with those non-existent feats he has, sure. Any random thug can brawl with Spidey for a extended length of time and survive bone-breaking sheer drops.

Batman has beaten TITAN-enhanced thugs

.....with multiple cape stuns, Titan riding and beatdowns? Spidey's punches ring a lot harder than those and they barely knocked Fisk around, let alone hurt him outside of some bruises.

You have clearly never played these games

You make the exact same mistake as poor @mbatz above by assuming that when I've played all of the games numerous times, and you would probably know better if you bothered to read that debate. Batman's good, but he's not beating Fisk in punches.

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GangOrca

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I'd say Batman has a good shot, he's already beaten brutes around Fisk's level.

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ProfessorRespect

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@gangorca said:

I'd say Batman has a good shot, he's already beaten brutes around Fisk's level.

With all of those instances being covered in layers of thick context.

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GangOrca

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#44  Edited By GangOrca
@professorrespect said:
@gangorca said:

I'd say Batman has a good shot, he's already beaten brutes around Fisk's level.

With all of those instances being covered in layers of thick context.

What context is there around him beating Titan thugs again?

The only thing I can say is that Fisk is a much smarter and more skilled fighter than Titans.

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Eredin12

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#45  Edited By Eredin12

Fisk gave Spidey a harder fight than I think Batman can, as crazy as it may be they were shown as really close stats-wise, with Spidey needing to use his webbing to beat him instead of pure stats, and PS4 Spidey was equal to Superior Spiderman( basically 616 Spiderman with far less morals) and can do this much damage with just a shockwave of his slam, while tanking same impact;

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ProfessorRespect

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#46  Edited By ProfessorRespect
@gangorca said:
@professorrespect said:
@gangorca said:

I'd say Batman has a good shot, he's already beaten brutes around Fisk's level.

With all of those instances being covered in layers of thick context.

What context is there around him beating Titan thugs again?

The only thing I can say is that Fisk is a much smarter and more skilled fighter than Titans.

The context is that Batman needed dozens upon dozens of strikes via beatdowns, and it took a incredible amount of time to do so even by speedrunner standards. Fisk isn't a Titan Thug that just charges into shit and frankly, Fisk is stronger than them by actual feats. The Titan scaling AT BEST is scaling off Bane throwing a prison van in a spin-off comic with disputed legitimacy (namely because it goes over the concept of the Arkhamverse Suicide Squad, which as of present wasn't a actual thing until their future game)

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GangOrca

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#47  Edited By GangOrca

@professorrespect:

The context is that Batman needed dozens upon dozens of strikes via beatdowns, and it took a incredible amount of time to do so even by speedrunner standards.

I wouldn't say that's a "thick" layer of context since this is of Batman's own capabilities but I'll hear you out.

Fisk isn't a Titan Thug that just charges into shit

Hence my second statement in my reply.

Fisk is stronger than them by actual feats.

In terms of actual feats, I'd say they are similar. I'll give better scaling to Fisk though.

Even with gadgets I'd say Batman likely loses to Fisk (and loses by default in a head-on fight), but I don't think he has zero chance.

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the_wspanialy

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@the_wspanialy said:
@professorrespect said:
@the_wspanialy said:

Lol.

Batman owns. Fisk would, at best, qualify as a random TITAN-enhanced thug in Arkhamverse.

Batman owns with those non-existent feats he has, sure. Any random thug can brawl with Spidey for a extended length of time and survive bone-breaking sheer drops.

Batman has beaten TITAN-enhanced thugs

.....with multiple cape stuns, Titan riding and beatdowns? Spidey's punches ring a lot harder than those and they barely knocked Fisk around, let alone hurt him outside of some bruises.

You have clearly never played these games

You make the exact same mistake as poor @mbatz above by assuming that when I've played all of the games numerous times, and you would probably know better if you bothered to read that debate. Batman's good, but he's not beating Fisk in punches.

I'm sorry, is something preventing Batman from utilizing his gear? Where have I ever stated that Batman beats Fisk "in punches"? Although he would, it'd simply take him more punches than it took Spidey, never mind that Spidey pulls his punches.

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ProfessorRespect

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@gangorca said:

@professorrespect:

The context is that Batman needed dozens upon dozens of strikes via beatdowns, and it took a incredible amount of time to do so even by speedrunner standards.

I wouldn't say that's a "thick" layer of context since this is of Batman's own capabilities but I'll hear you out

It really is considering almost everyone in this thread has used these feats as some sort of comparison, like Batman didn't need ages to beat them/their own offence being just mindless swings and charges. He couldn't do the same to Kingpin if we were using that logic, especially considering Titan Joker (of whom was about as strong as regular Titan lads) couldn't even be beaten without using gel.

Fisk is stronger than them by actual feats.

In terms of actual feats, I'd say they are similar. I'll give better scaling to Fisk though

Even with gadgets I'd say Batman likely loses to Fisk (and loses by default in a head-on fight), but I don't think he has zero chance

Fair enough.

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Fisk in a good fight. I can see Batman taking a few rounds out of 10 if he abuses his gear though.