Archie Super Sonic vs Unicorn (Transformers )

  • 55 results
  • 1
  • 2
Avatar image for huko
HukO

3246

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 0

#1  Edited By HukO

Both of them are at their peak

Who will win ?

Avatar image for huko
HukO

3246

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 0

#2  Edited By HukO
Avatar image for wesat
Wesat

5315

Forum Posts

45

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 0

Yeah... This is a hax stomp. Math manipulation, conceptual manipulation, mid godly regeneration, abstract existence, etc.

Avatar image for youk66
Youk66

718

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 0

#4  Edited By Youk66
Avatar image for wesat
Wesat

5315

Forum Posts

45

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 0

Avatar image for youk66
Youk66

718

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 0

@wesat: damn how powerful is Unicron ?

Avatar image for mbatz
mbatz

2442

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 0

Spite Archie Sonic Stomps

Base Sonic is an embodiment of Chaos after acquiring 1 billion rings, which is why Archie sonic doesn’t drop rings as he became the embodiment of chaos

  • Self-Sustenances (Type 1. Can breathe within the vacuum of space)
  • Pseudo-Flight
  • Skilled Swordsman
  • Hammerspace
  • Plot Manipulation (Capable of scripting, entering, and leaving his own stories)
  • Non-physical interaction(Capable of interacting with and fighting his own shadow)
  • Forcefield creation(Sonic is capable of creating an energy shield to protect himself from attacks)
  • Stats amplification (Can use the Super Peel Out technique to greatly increase his natural speed or amplify the power behind his punches)
  • Rage power (Grew angry enough to far surpass the calculated limit that was estimated from him by Eggman)
  • Paralysis inducement (By precisely striking nerve clusters with fast-paced pressure point strikes, Sonic is able to take down physically superior opponents and cause paralysis in others)
  • Limited Instinctive reaction (basically limited UI, when he becomes extremely serious, Sonic has been shown to be capable of fighting like normal and pulling off evasive maneuvers without forethought)
  • Summoning (By vibrating his vocal cords and whistling at a high pitch that only certain beings can hear, Sonic is capable of summoning a dragon to aid him in the heat of battle)
  • Invisibility (Can spin himself fast enough to appear invisible and fight while hidden from sight)
  • Intangibility(Shown to be capable of vibrating his molecules to phase through barriers and opponents)
  • Limited atomic manipulation (Capable of withering away objects with atomic vibrations, and is shown capable of affecting the molecules of objects with his Sonic Spin)
  • Teleportation, Time manipulation, Time stop, Dimensional Travel and Time reversal (With the Chaos Emeralds)
  • Blessed with Omniversal Protection (Protection, offered by The Ancient Walkers through his One Billionth Ring Aura)
  • Limited Chaos Manipulation
  • Fate Manipulation (Due to the amount of Chaos Energy that Sonic has been exposed to, he has become the Embodiment of Chaos. As referred to by Eggman, he is patently unpredictable, the constant inconsistency, that hiccup on the quantum level that throws everything off to ensure Sonic’s victory)
  • Limited Magic and Reality Warping(His Aura is stated to override reality in a ripple of magical energy)
  • Immortality (Types 3 and 8. The latter is reliant on Sonic's One Billionth Power Ring Aura, which allowed him to recover from being erased from existence by the Ultimate Annihilator after it overloaded. Was stated and shown to be successfully vaporized, but was left in a sort of limbo before being able to return once more. His Aura also retains his life force)
  • Power nullification (Sonic's Aura can passively negateCurses and Magic used against him due to being protected by the Ancient Walkers)
  • Damage Reduction (Can take much more punishment due to the amount of Power Rings he's absorbed that's increased his durability)
  • Portal creation and Absorption (Using Power Rings and Chaos Energy)
  • Clairvoyance (Called upon a Power Ring for knowledge)
  • Resurrection (Allowed Sonic to revive his father and himself as he spontaneously spawn after death)
  • Purification (Types 2 and 3. Can remove corruptive mind control and restore a person back to normal. Shown to return Sonic's speed after it was heavily impaired)

Resistance to:

  • Resistance to and Limited Acausality Negation (Claimed by Master Mogul to have Fate itself intervene with his First and Second Tenure).
  • With Power rings can become resistant to: Reality warping, Dimensional BFR,
  • Resistance to Speed Reduction (Capable of regaining lost speed while having multiple Power Rings), and likely all other abilities shown from Power Rings.
  • Resistance to Mind manipulation (Unaffected by Enerjak's takeover from the brainwashing hex, which allowed him to possess Knuckles), Power nullification, Matter manipulation, and Soul Manipulation (Sonic's Aura is confirmed to be able to return his physical and spiritual essence), and Life-force absorption (Sonic's Aura is stated to absorb and retain his Life Force) from beings as powerful as Enerjak.
  • Additional Resistance to Transmutation (The power of Chaos Emeralds and their Chaos Energy can revert and block out transfigurations and mutations), Biological Manipulations and Soul Manipulations (Egg Grape chambers drain your life force, infuse you with toxins, deletes your “biofield”, and erase your very mind and soul. Even the briefest exposure can cause severe dips in mental capability and drove Naugus to insanity, and the power of a Chaos Emerald prevented Mammoth Mogul from suffering any repercussions within them)
  • Resistance to Madness Manipulation (The power of a Chaos Emerald restored Naugus' broken mind)
  • Resistance to Disease Manipulation(Unaffected by a disease that left others deathly ill), Poisons and Radiations (Can traverse through toxic areas and wastelands while remaining unaffected), Extreme Cold (Remains indifferent to being trapped and encased in ice, coldareas. Can withstand the vacuum of space with no negative side effects), Scalding,Heat/Magma Manipulation (Only slightly bothered and hurt by contact with molten lava)
  • Resistance to Precognition (Able to bypass Mogul's sixth sense, which Turbo Tails had also bypassed. Absorbed more Chaos Energy than any other natural mobian, which Eggman described as fundamentally chaotic and unpredictable in nature)

Complex Multiversal in Super Sonic using the Chaos Emeralds

  • Reality Warping: Sonic can harness the power of Chaos Energy to turn "dreams into reality", as Chaos Energy is known for being able to shape entire worlds into how the user imagines. The power of the Chaos Emeralds' reality bending capabilities should be vastly superior to that of Power Rings, as they have a mere infinitesimal amount of their power.
  • Intangibility: Sonic has been shown capable of effortlessly passing through his enemies, which leaves a disorienting after-effect on the person from his phasing.
  • Existence Erasure: The Chaos Emeralds have been shown capable of erasing people from existence, making it as if that never existed in the first place.
  • Sealing: The Chaos Emeralds have been shown to be able to seal beings inside of them, as done repeatedly before with Mammoth Mogul.
  • Forcefield Creation: Enveloping himself in a golden aura, Sonic creates a protective forcefieldaround himself. This can also be used to fire multiple beams of Chaos Energy, which allows for simultaneous offense and defense.
  • Holy Manipulation: A passive effect used to continuously weaken beings of negative or evil energies, such as when he did so with the angered Perfect Chaos or Enerjak.
  • Conceptual Manipulation: With Chaos Energy, Sonic is able to rewrite or destroy the very concepts that shape reality. As shown as when the Chaos Force and Illumina were erased during Sonic’s attempt to reverse the Super Genesis Wave, as they are bothconfirmed to no longer exist in the Post-Super Genesis Wave timeline.

Higher in Super Sonic using the Master Emerald (he’s form is yellowish-greenish)

Higher with Super Super Sonic using the Super Emeralds

Higher with Ultra Sonic

  • Elemental Manipulation: Sonic can manipulate the elements at the atomic level with his mind alone, as displayed when he fought against Ugly Naugus.
  • BFR: By opening a portal, Sonic is able to use this to suction enemies. He can send others to the Zone of Silence, and presumably to any other location of his choice.
  • Adaptation: Sonic can adapt to his surroundings, such as when he transformed to match the heat of a desert, the cold of a tundra, and the plant life of a forest.

Higher when using Sword Of Acorns is basically omnipotent.

The Sword of Acorns was a magical sword forged from the Source of All along with the Crown of Acorns.

  • Healing: The Sword of Acorns wields mystical healing powers, which also allows it to restore free will and revert transfigurations.
  • Power Absorption: The Sword of Acorns is capable of draining opponents, allowing users to steal their power while leaving the opponent a weak husk.
  • Power Nullification/Statistics Reduction: The mere presence of the Sword of Acorns is capable of negating an opponent’s abilities and greatly weakening them.
  • Paralysis Inducement: The Sword of Acorns can stun opponents and lock them in place, even beings with the strength of the infinitely powerful Enerjak.
  • Portal Creation: The Sword of Acorns can open rifts in reality.

Sword of Acorns solos, the sword is a literal piece of omnipotence, it’s what was responsible for Mammoth Mongul absorbing a part of Enerjacks power making Mongul to destroy several multiverses with he’s hands.

Archis Sonic stomps

Avatar image for youk66
Youk66

718

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 0

Copy pasted smh

Avatar image for mbatz
mbatz

2442

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 0

@youk66 said:

Copy pasted smh

Not all of it.

And I only copy and pasted the parts I’ve actually seen.

Complex multiversal from re-creating the multiverse, when it was destroyed by the super genesis wave as Super Sonic using the Chaos Emeralds, not the Master Emaralds, Super Emeralds, Power Rings or Super Rings or a combination of different rings and emeralds.

The Ultimate Annihilator destroyed several universes and sonic who was in one of them spontaneously spawned in another universe, not sure to call this a universal durability feat or a resurrection feat or what. Universes destroyed and he died on scans and then appeared randomly in another universe. All I know is he’s protection from the ancient walkers was involved.

The master emerald which was cursed by Dr. Finativus allowed Knuckles another embodiment of Chaos to be controlled by enerjak whilst Sonic who is the exclusive favourite emobodiment of Choas wasn’t effected when he used the master emerald, and it was explained it was due to the fact Sonic earned the title of embodiment of chaos from collecting 1 billion rings as apposed to being the son or biological relative of an embodiment Of chaos who did so previously like Knuckles, Shadow, Silver etc.

Dr. Eggman, Mammoth Mongul and Enerjack have all said that Sonic receives protection from an extradimensional force that grants him unpredictability(egg man), casualty manipulation that would always allow him to win (mammoth Mongul), and greater power from the Ancient Walkers that would enable him to control a greater portion of the Chaos Force then most individuals. Hence why Mamoth Mongul couldn’t see sonic‘s future and why he’s capable of defeating Solaris who eats multiverses and is above time yet can not see sonic’s actions.

And more.

But unless Unicron is complex multiversal he doesn’t stand a chance

Sonic really does win

Avatar image for zzxzxzxxzx
Zzxzxzxxzx

11

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 0

Archie Super Sonic could destroy Lucifer Morningstar, Endless, Cosmic Armor Superman, and The Writer combined, also Archie sonic defeated a being who can destroy trillions of multiverses Unicron gets destroyed.

Avatar image for void_reborn
Void_Reborn

5924

Forum Posts

1120

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 0

Unicron is a multiversal infinite and constant. Archie dies trying to get rid of him.

Avatar image for wesat
Wesat

5315

Forum Posts

45

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 0

Unicorn has been stated to be capable of devouring the multiverse numerous times, and has even done it in the past, which is composed of an uncountable amount of realities and universal streams, which themselves are composed of infinite universes

Avatar image for mbatz
mbatz

2442

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 0

@wesat: @void_reborn: Even if that was the case that means the Unicron is a match for Super Sonic using the Chaos Emeralds not master emerald, super emeralds or power rings or Ultra Sonic or the Sword of Acorns

Mammoth Mongul infinite multiversal from destroying several multiverses with he’s barehands when he absorbed a portion of Enerjaks power using The Sword Of Acorns. Sonic has this Sword and can literally steal Unicrons power. Sonic also fought Enerjak and won.

Sonic has beaten Solaris in Archie comics who is also complex multiversal.

Sonic erased Enerjak from existence when he recreated existence, and Enerjak is a tier above complex multiversal

The Sword of Acorns absorbed and killed the Ancient Walkers. To put this simply the ancient Walkerss are the equivalent of TOAA or Presence and he was good half of the Chaos Force while Enerjak was the dark half.

So just to recap on Enerjaks power, Enerjaks avatar which contains infinitely less power then the real Enerjak, Mongul who absorbed Enerjaks power became infinite multiversal punching multiverses. And that was infinitely less power then the real Enerjak.

Sonic kills Unicron and I need scans of Multiversal Unicron

Avatar image for wesat
Wesat

5315

Forum Posts

45

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 0

Avatar image for youk66
Youk66

718

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 0

Bump

Avatar image for mbatz
mbatz

2442

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 0

@wesat:You weren’t being completely honest, the Vok individually aren’t multiversal, they are individually universal and there are infinite of them in number, each individual Vox combines with its own universe but is capable of going to others. Your own scans confirm this.

The 18 dimensions you speak of are spatial dimensions, not dimensions like heaven or hell but spatial dimensions such as length, width, depth, time etc. Sam was explaining that there are more dimensions that can be used in mathemetics which is what allows for spatial gates to exist. Also this is a seperate continuity to the top scan. Unless it’s composite transformers.

Unicron destroyed everything back when he was a high-dimensional being that existed with no body but more of a sentient form of evil energy, aka dark energon. He had no form, he destroyed most of the multiverse but the leftover parts came together and generated a second Big Bang, that which was left was also a piece of the original Primus and spawned a weaker protector also known as Primus, Unicrons very existence is due to the original Primus casting out all evil from he‘s being, Primus became the universe then made Primus the protector who tricked unicron to fight in the astral plane and got trapped in a rock and so did Primus. After this fight they were no longer high-dimensional beings and were confined to physical bodies, which would change to match there soul and intentions, which is why Primus made life, and Unicron didn’t.

Unicron as I sad isn’t multiversal or a high-dimensional being after he’s fight with Primus, the last scan even confirms this, Ramjat explains Unicron can‘t hope to destroy the multiverse because he can’t be in every universe at one. So he was going to eat Cybertron/Primus and take it’s place as axis of the multiverse. In other words, there is a Cybertron in every universe, Unicron was going to eat it and appear in every universe so he could destroy the universe over time.

Unicron has never been a solid multiversal even at the height of he’s power he was a low multiversal since he didn’t even get the job done. Unicron as he exists now is universal at best he needs to destroy the universe. Of course thats using this transformers continuity, try another one.

Ir wouldn’t matter if he was infinite multiversal, the sword of acorns would such him dry and the chaos force would erase him from existence. To say the sword can’t is to say Unicron is two tiers above multiversal, since the sword of acorns killed Sonic’s TOAA called the ancient walkers, a being that overpowered the real enerjack who even enerjaks avatars when they had there power absorbed through the sword gave a being infinite multiversal power, that was an avatar, which is infinitely less powerful then the real enerjak and that enerjak lost to the ancient walkers, and the ancient walkers were absorbed by the sword of acorns, and Super Sonic without the sword erased Enerjak from existence.

Sonic would spite kill Unicron, try another continuity, I’m sure there’s a Unicron that can contend with an Enerjak Avatar or maybe Master Mongul

Avatar image for wesat
Wesat

5315

Forum Posts

45

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 0

@mbatz:

Both of them are at their peak. This means we use Abstract Unicron. Who is superior to the Vok (not just superior to an individual but whole race).

For the dimension issue read the last sentence in the scan you will understand why this dimensions are not just spatial dimensions.

Unicron has never been a solid multiversal even at the height of he’s power he was a low multiversal since he didn’t even get the job done. Unicron as he exists now is universal at best he needs to destroy the universe. Of course thats using this transformers continuity, try another one.

Unicorn has been stated to be capable of devouring the multiverse numerous times, and has even done it in the past, which is composed of an uncountable amount of realities and universal streams, which themselves are composed of infinite universes

Ir wouldn’t matter if he was infinite multiversal, the sword of acorns would such him dry and the chaos force would erase him from existence. To say the sword can’t is to say Unicron is two tiers above multiversal, since the sword of acorns killed Sonic’s TOAA called the ancient walkers, a being that overpowered the real enerjack who even enerjaks avatars when they had there power absorbed through the sword gave a being infinite multiversal power, that was an avatar, which is infinitely less powerful then the real enerjak and that enerjak lost to the ancient walkers, and the ancient walkers were absorbed by the sword of acorns, and Super Sonic without the sword erased Enerjak from existence.

The Ancient Walkers were originally three Mobian dinosaurs that were able to attain complete mastery of the Chaos Force and become powerful deities. They are not the supreme beings; they are powerful deities. The Source of All is the supreme being of the Archie's Sonic The Hedgehog continuity. So no Sword of Acorn cannot kill the Unicron.

Unicrons only weakness is the matrix. Sonic has no idea what the matrix is and even if he did he has no way of finding it as it could be anywhere in the Marvel multiverse. He may destroy the some avatar of Unicron but not the true Unicron. No chance.

Avatar image for mbatz
mbatz

2442

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 0

Time to explain it seems

@wesat said:

@mbatz:

Unicorn has been stated to be capable of devouring the multiverse numerous times, and has even done it in the past, which is composed of an uncountable amount of realities and universal streams, which themselves are composed of infinite universes

Ir wouldn’t matter if he was infinite multiversal, the sword of acorns would such him dry and the chaos force would erase him from existence. To say the sword can’t is to say Unicron is two tiers above multiversal, since the sword of acorns killed Sonic’s TOAA called the ancient walkers, a being that overpowered the real enerjack who even enerjaks avatars when they had there power absorbed through the sword gave a being infinite multiversal power, that was an avatar, which is infinitely less powerful then the real enerjak and that enerjak lost to the ancient walkers, and the ancient walkers were absorbed by the sword of acorns, and Super Sonic without the sword erased Enerjak from existence.

The Ancient Walkers were originally three Mobian dinosaurs that were able to attain complete mastery of the Chaos Force and become powerful deities. They are not the supreme beings; they are powerful deities. The Source of All is the supreme being of the Archie's Sonic The Hedgehog continuity. So no Sword of Acorn cannot kill the Unicron.

My friend I want you read what you just said.

Unicron has been capable of devouring the multiverse, but somehow always fails and the multiverse exists. You said it in a fancy way but ultimately Unicron never actually destroys the multiverse in its entirety ever. That’s the honest truth. That’s the a flaw in your logic.

@wesat said:

@mbatz:

Unicrons only weakness is the matrix. Sonic has no idea what the matrix is and even if he did he has no way of finding it as it could be anywhere in the Marvel multiverse. He may destroy the some avatar of Unicron but not the true Unicron. No chance.

The ancient walkers may have indeed been dinosaurs with the strongest connection to the chaos force but there power dwarfs the Chaos Force. Furthermore you have forgotten that the Ancient Walkers control the Good Half of the Chaos Force whilst Enerjak controls the Evil Half of the Chaos Force. That’s why Sonic after becoming a embodiment of Chaos gained an aura capable of devouring evil.

That brings me to the next flaw in your logic. Unicron isn’t hurt only by The Matrix of Leadership. Unicron was harmed by Primus, this off cause being the Primus that became Unicron which is contradiction to your statements, but that’s not all, were Unicron represents Evil, Primus spawned from the remains of the original Primus who became the multiverse and was the embodiment of Good. Do you understand to harm Unicron isn’t to have the matrix of leadership it’s to have a weapon that it pure good, hence why only Optimus can wield such a weapon, fortunately for Sonic he is an embodiment of the Good half of the Chaos Force. So there is no excuse why Sonic can’t harm Unicron, especially when he dwarfs Unicron in power, the difference alone should make pre-requisites for doing harm irrelevant, but regardless sonic has such power. Which is the second issue, you misinterpreted why Unicron is harmed, Primus is pure good, he’s unicrons opposite and Unicron is pure evil, the comic makes it very, very clear Primus cast Evil out from himself.

The third issue is your downplaying The Sword Of Acorns, the honest truth is Sonic would kill Unicron due to The Sword Of Acorns, speaking of the Source Of All I didn’t mention it because it doesn’t usually interfere in mortal affairs as much as the ancient walkers do, however THE SWORD OF ACORNS WAS FORGED FROM A PIECE OF THIS SUPREME BEING. I think you see where I’m going with this. The source of all is a supreme being and the sword is made from a piece of it, when I say Sonic can strip Unicron of he’s power I’m being serious. Primordial power trumps any kind of power since it is beyond concepts such as good, evil etc and it quite capable of either, hence why Primus generates Unicron or why the Sword Of Acorns can be wielded by evil users like Mommoth Mongul. As such a Sentient Sword made of Primodial energy and has abilities such as existence erasure will certainly erase Unicron.

The fourth issue which isn’t actually an issue I’m just mentioning it but that‘s not even the only sword sonic has, he is also in the possession of The Sword of Light which is a sword made of pure Good, which was made by the ancient walkers who as I said control the good half of the chaos force which is why Sonic has an aura that eats evil passively, I almost want to say Sonics presence would harm Unicron but that would be a lie, but he’s super forms definitely would.

Sonic still wins Sword of Acorns, Sword of Light or Super Sonic or Hyper Sonic or Ultra Sonic since sonic taps in to the good half of the Chaos force.

Unicron dies

Avatar image for youk66
Youk66

718

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 0

@mbatz: hey listen who is most powerful transformers character

And Which level he belongs galaxy or Universal ?

Avatar image for mbatz
mbatz

2442

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 0

@youk66: It would have to be Unicron Universal with time.

Of course if you consider original abstract Unicron as transformer and I wouldn’t then he’d be a low complex multiversal.

But like I said in that form he isn’t really a transformer but half of a supreme being made from evil energies

Avatar image for youk66
Youk66

718

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 0

@mbatz: don't know about this fight nethier I am interested

But it feels Transformers Universe is pretty powerful

Aleast way more than most cartoon universes

Avatar image for alphamon
Alphamon

9583

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 0

How the heck is Archie sonic complex multivresal

Avatar image for wesat
Wesat

5315

Forum Posts

45

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 0

My friend I want you read what you just said.

Unicron has been capable of devouring the multiverse, but somehow always fails and the multiverse exists. You said it in a fancy way but ultimately Unicron never actually destroys the multiverse in its entirety ever. That’s the honest truth. That’s the a flaw in your logic.

Has been repeatedly stated to be able to devour the Multiverse, including all levels of existence, even having done so in the past.

Which is the second issue, you misinterpreted why Unicron is harmed, Primus is pure good, he’s unicrons opposite and Unicron is pure evil, the comic makes it very, very clear Primus cast Evil out from himself.

No. The One above all created Unicron. He later split Unicron's good and evil side creating Primus and the Unicron we know. Therefore Primus and Unicron are equal because they are merely good and bad side of a same coin and they have a same degree of power because of their sheer reason of existence. So Primus could hurt Unicron for no other reason than that. Unicron have only 3 weakness. The One, his twin brother Primus and The Matrix of Leadership. No he have no weakness to good

The third issue is your downplaying The Sword Of Acorns, the honest truth is Sonic would kill Unicron due to The Sword Of Acorns, speaking of the Source Of All I didn’t mention it because it doesn’t usually interfere in mortal affairs as much as the ancient walkers do, however THE SWORD OF ACORNS WAS FORGED FROM A PIECE OF THIS SUPREME BEING. I think you see where I’m going with this. The source of all is a supreme being and the sword is made from a piece of it, when I say Sonic can strip Unicron of he’s power I’m being serious. Primordial power trumps any kind of power since it is beyond concepts such as good, evil etc and it quite capable of either, hence why Primus generates Unicron or why the Sword Of Acorns can be wielded by evil users like Mommoth Mongul. As such a Sentient Sword made of Primodial energy and has abilities such as existence erasure will certainly erase Unicron.

Unicron exists as an idea. The very representation of chaos and evil itself. So if Sword of Acron cannot destroy the concept of evil and chaos, he doesn't have much thought here. And by the way Unicron have resistance to existence erasure

Avatar image for mbatz
mbatz

2442

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 0

You didn’t tag me anyway time to debunk

@wesat said:

My friend I want you read what you just said.

Unicron has been capable of devouring the multiverse, but somehow always fails and the multiverse exists. You said it in a fancy way but ultimately Unicron never actually destroys the multiverse in its entirety ever. That’s the honest truth. That’s the a flaw in your logic.

Has been repeatedly stated to be able to devour the Multiverse, including all levels of existence, even having done so in the past.

Never said he hadn’t ALMOST destroyed the multiverse, being able and succeeding in doing so aren’t the samething. Repeating an action after failing at it doesnt make you any higher on the tier List. He is still at best mulitversal to low complex multiversal which isn’t enough.

@wesat said:

Which is the second issue, you misinterpreted why Unicron is harmed, Primus is pure good, he’s unicrons opposite and Unicron is pure evil, the comic makes it very, very clear Primus cast Evil out from himself.

No. The One above all created Unicron. He later split Unicron's good and evil side creating Primus and the Unicron we know. Therefore Primus and Unicron are equal because they are merely good and bad side of a same coin and they have a same degree of power because of their sheer reason of existence. So Primus could hurt Unicron for no other reason than that. Unicron have only 3 weakness. The One, his twin brother Primus and The Matrix of Leadership. No he have no weakness to good

Thats not the case, the continuity in which Unicron is a low complex multiversal being light (as an attribute) can harm as even other light Gods we’re capable of harming him. It’s just that Primus Lord of the light Gods was able to do the most damage. As seen and explained by abstract unicron himself.

No Caption Provided

Furthermore its even worth mentioning whilst I call Unicron an abstract being it’s not the same as him being unkillable, with that logic IG Thanos would lose to the combined power of the abstracts but he succeeded, and sonic with the Sword of Acorns is basically regulator Thanos in the sense he can steal the power of above abstract level entities. Unicron does represent evil but he can be killed and respawn overtime. But take into consideration Archie sonic recreated his and Megaman’s multiverses although it’s important to understand Sonic’s multiverse isn’t actually a multiverse and is comprised of infinite multiverses inside and extradimensional realms above the multiverse.

No Caption Provided

An example is Maginaryworld which is another multiverse with infinite universes which is seperate from sonic’s multiverse or even the other multiverses which Mongul went around oneshotting.

No Caption Provided
No Caption Provided
No Caption Provided

I really do dislike how people have zero context on Enerjak or Mamoth mogul. When Mamoth Mogul rose to divinity the first time and destroyed multiverse those multiverses had to be evacuated as you can see the tails of the multiverse, who would later fuse with tails to fight enerjak.

The second time Mamoth Mogul rose to divinity he was brutally beaten by Super Sonic, Hyper Knuckles and an unknown transformation of tails which escapes me to this day. I could go back but I can’t be stuffed.

The Third time he rose to divinity or rather the same power he had previously by absrobing the chaos energy from Enerjak knuckles, Knuckles unlike previous enerjak avatars was an embodiment of chaos allowing he’s body house more chaos energy, and with that energy he bashed Mogul and retrieved he’s power even and then Super Sonic with the power of the master emerald not chaos emerald bashed Enerjack Knuckles.

Just for context.

So the sonic verse is above multiversal and the requirements to beat Unicron are light abilities, I’m still not sure where you are getting this only Primus can beat unicron, maybe in other continuities but the one that matters is the one he’s low complex multiversal and he can be harmed by any God of Light.

Sonic would bully him with out the sword. Even with your only Primus rules the sword would still work since it has Omni-power negatation as a sword made from primordial energy, energy Primus before splitting would have. This isn’t composite Unicron use one version this is becoming tedious.

Avatar image for wesat
Wesat

5315

Forum Posts

45

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 0

Never said he hadn’t ALMOST destroyed the multiverse, being able and succeeding in doing so aren’t the samething. Repeating an action after failing at it doesnt make you any higher on the tier List. He is still at best mulitversal to low complex multiversal which isn’t enough.

He had destroyed the multiverse in the past.

Thats not the case, the continuity in which Unicron is a low complex multiversal being light (as an attribute) can harm as even other light Gods we’re capable of harming him. It’s just that Primus Lord of the light Gods was able to do the most damage. As seen and explained by abstract unicron himself.

Sonic would bully him with out the sword. Even with your only Primus rules the sword would still work since it has Omni-power negatation as a sword made from primordial energy, energy Primus before splitting would have. This isn’t composite Unicron use one version this is becoming tedious.

I'm sorry, but am I missing something here? If I see a battle called Link vs X, I would think Link is Composite because no continuity or gameplay is specified. There is no continuity specified in this thread, so I will use composite Unicron. What makes you think otherwise?

There's no mention of specific win conditions in the main post. So according to default battle conditions, winning conditions are win by KO, death, or BFR. Sword of Acron can very well destroy Unicron superficially but can't kill. Unicron cannot die so long there exists Evil and Malice in the Multiverse. Sword of Acron cannot destroy a Platonic Concept like Evil.

In other hand, Unicron has a lot of hax that Sonic has no answer like Math manipulation, Physics Manipulation, Energy Transmutation and Quantum Manipulation. Like I say before hax stomp.

Avatar image for wesat
Wesat

5315

Forum Posts

45

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 0

@mbatz

I forgot to tag you again. Sorry about that

Avatar image for unpeoplebeing
Unpeoplebeing

37

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 0

Archie Super Sonic could destroy Lucifer Morningstar, Endless, Cosmic Armor Superman, and The Writer combined, also Archie sonic defeated a being who can destroy trillions of multiverses Unicron gets destroyed.

Dude, is this a joke, stop being a ludicrous fanboy. CAS, Lucifer Morningstar, Endless, and The Writer destroys and slaughters this overwanked fodder hedgehog

Avatar image for vidi15king
Vidi15king

620

Forum Posts

18

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 0

@mbatz

Unicron would stomp Archie Sonic.

You quote how Unicron is not Multiversal. Either you must confuse the definitions between multiverse in TRF and multiverse in Sonic or your just a fanboy.

TRF Multiverse can be referred to as a Cluster to which equals to a Hyperverse - Outerverse if put into a tiering system. The feat where Unicron eats most of the Marvel Universe is actually a high tier Outerverse feat, not a multiverse feat. It's dumb and ridiculous you put this as a low complex multiversal feat. You know itself that Marvel wrote these comics where their definition of Multiverse is equal to an Outerverse (If we include the Beyonders, Pre retcon Beyonder etc etc who exist in an outside universe). Unicron devoured his way through the entire Cluster, eating up to every single molecule, inside or outside the Marvelverse. However, a few remaining sort is what created a countless explosion lasting for Trillions of years backed by The One's presence. Unicron only woke up to it like his alarm rang off. Sonic would have died to this explosion.

Okay let's see Archie sonic. His greatest feat was defeating Master Mogul who crushed a Million multiverses with his hand. Now it's mainly fanboy speculation that Sonic universe = Marvel Universe. If it has been never proved don't equate it. Archie Sonic is mainly "can", 'Supposedly', 'maybe' etc. Nothing is really ever confirmed. Sonic at his best would be Low Multiversal. Unicron is cluster (Outerversal +) level. Sonic has defeated a reality warper above reality warping powers (Dunno how to put this better) in his respective universe. Unicron has devoured all of reality in Marvel cluster (Yes that even means the outside universes).

Okay so what if we give Sonic the Sword of Acron. It's omnipotence, right and also add in the Emeralds? Yes but Unicron is already Omnipotent and proved to be a Platonic concept that is nigh impossible to kill. Sonic's emeralds are multiversal in his Universe, may not be in other Universes external to Sonic. Plus Unicron has tanked Blows from Primus who is nigh Outerversal and resisted the Star saber with ease which can sink the entire transformers cluster.

Here's a bit more on Unicron:

Superhuman Physical Characteristics,

Avatar Creation,

Transformation (Can transform into his Planetary form at will),

Space-Time Manipulation,

True Flight & Spaceflight,

Large Size (Type 5 for his weakest versions, Type 9 for his stronger versions),

Immortality (Types 1, 3, 5 and 8; Unicron cannot die so long there exists Evil and Malice in the Multiverse - aka Cluster),

Body Control,

Corruption,

Energy Projection (His planet form has a massive energy cannon used to wipe the life of planets he is about to eat),

Skilled Swordsman, Soul Manipulation, Reality Warping (Can shape and mold all of reality to how he sees fit), Energy Manipulation (Can manipulate energy down to its most fundamental level. Wields all cosmic energy), Shapeshifting (Can take up the form of anything he desires at the moment), Size Manipulation, Regeneration (Low-Mid for his weakest version, comparable to other Transformers who can regain their limbs and arms with enough scrap up to Mid-Godly for his stronger versions, survived being erased from history),

Chaos Manipulation (By virtue of embodying this concept, he should have control over it), Dimensional Travel (Scaling from an extremely weak avatar of Vector Prime, who was able to access the planet of Gigantion through extreme effort, which was locked in another universe), Dimensional Storage (Likely capable of accessing the Transwarp), Void Manipulation (Can manipulate the swirl of nothingness), Existence Erasure (Can erase being from existence), Mathematics Manipulation, Physics Manipulation, Matter Manipulation (Can convert energy to matter and vice versa), Telepathy (Can telepathically communicate with people across the entire cosmos and make them his slaves), Mind Manipulation (Each evil action taken by mortal beings only happens because Unicron subconsciously wishes for it to be so) Empathic Manipulation, Morality Manipulation (Can influence one's morality to that of the side of evil), Reactive Evolution (Every time Unicron dies, he adapts from his previous body and becomes resistant), Quantum Manipulation (Can create quantum shockwaves), Empowerment (Empowered by Chaos, Fear, Death, Malice, Hate, Vengeance and many other negative feelings), Technology Manipulation & Power Bestowal (Can completely alter the structure of Transformers and make them stronger than usual), Large Size (Type 10), Higher-Dimensional Existence, Abstract Existence (Type 1. Embodies chaos and evil on a multiversal scale), Pocket Reality Manipulation (Can create and control his own pocket dimensions that exist outside of The Multiverse), Conceptual Manipulation (Type 2. Can remove concepts from the multiverse, such as the concept of order), Non-Corporeal (Exists as an idea. The very representation of chaos and evil itself), Acausality (Type 5. Exists outside the nature of cause and effect), Nonexistent Physiology (Stated to be an infinite nothing petty corporeal minds cannot imagine, he also encompasses the Void, a place of pure nothingness that exists beyond the Multiverse) Absorption (Everything Unicron devours becomes part of him) Resistance to Law Manipulation, Space-Time Manipulation, Soul Manipulation, Magic, Information Manipulation, Telepathy, and Reality Warping

Avatar image for deactivated-6008442e91d10
deactivated-6008442e91d10

1

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 0

@vidi15king: Why are you being difficult ? When debating there should be a mutual respect, there is so much wrong with what you have said but I won’t address it condescendingly. So let’s get started.

The feat where Unicron eats most of the Marvel Universe is actually a high tier Outerverse feat, not a multiverse feat. It's dumb and ridiculous you put this as a low complex multiversal feat. You know itself that Marvel wrote these comics where their definition of Multiverse is equal to an Outerverse (If we include the Beyonders, Pre retcon Beyonder etc etc who exist in an outside universe).

I don’t think you know what outerversal is? Outerversal is a term used to describe a plane of existence or a state of being where you are not bound by dimensions lets say your outerversal and your in a 5D realm or an infinite D realm you are unaffected by the hax of those realms or the people of who function on that level. There is only a hand full of people possibly outerversal in marvel and the only one closest individual is TOAA as he is supposed to be above all things and all creation however he was retconned to have rules in which allow him to function and that’s why when regulator Thanos absorbed TOAA he was angry becuase despite being the most powerful there we rules that stopped him from using his full power once he became TOAA that’s why Regulator Thanos wanted to blow himself up, so outerversal doesn’t even exist in marvel nor all verses have this concept. Instead it would simply be whatever is above mutliversal which is why me and the other guy agreed upon complex mutliversal which is infinite mutliverse basically or destruction of realms above a conventional mutliverse such as a infinite universes and extra dimensional realms. So for the rest of this argument now that I’ve explained even if we take the beyonders dimension which actually isn’t confirmed to be extra-dimensional (extradimensional is realms above ordinary realms like the sphere of the gods for example) then it’s a low-complex mutliversal feat as the whole TRF mutliverse was not destroyed. But even if the TRF mutliverse was destroyed this is nothing compared to what sonic has done or scales too as I’ll explain later.

Okay let's see Archie sonic. His greatest feat was defeating Master Mogul who crushed a Million multiverses with his hand. Now it's mainly fanboy speculation that Sonic universe = Marvel Universe. If it has been never proved don't equate it. Archie Sonic is mainly "can", 'Supposedly', 'maybe' etc. Nothing is really ever confirmed. Sonic at his best would be Low Multiversal.

This statement is both dead wrong and irrelevant its quite the sight. For a start Sonic has gone to the same universe the Punisher is when he ran the cosmic intersection to another mutliverse. SoNic has visited the spawn mutliverse, he has even visited the TMNT multiverse which is actually seperate from DC according to the latest crossover when Krang and Anti-monitor fused and combined the two meta verses and thereby the two mutliverses Id recommend you read it. I’m not sure if he’s visited the DC mutliverse but he probably has so that comment about it not being the marvel mutliverse is true but he’s visited it anyway. That and Sonic mutliverses have extra dimensional realms anyway, Sonic’s multiverse had an afterlife dimension which is unnamed, a dimension named the chaos force not to be confused with the actual chaos force and other mutliverses have extradimensions as well for instance if you did research on Maginaryworld you’d know it has both infinite universes and mutliple extra dimensional realms and Maginaryworld was destroyed by the power Of the Seven chaos emeralds super genesis wave which sonic directly scales too as he un did it, although it’s worth mentioning the mutliverses both megaman’s and Sonic’s and the Maginaryworld multiverse were both destroyed. I’m not even going to mention how the real world is also an extra dimension so what your saying about it not equalling marvel mutliverse is also false since the sonic mutliverse had both infinite universes and extradimensional realms, countless universe sized realms in a single dimension, countless timelines that coexist in one universe like Silver’s timeline which though should be erased isn‘t and of course unlike marvels universes Sonic’s universes are infinite in size.

Okay so what if we give Sonic the Sword of Acron. It's omnipotence, right and also add in the Emeralds? Yes but Unicron is already Omnipotent and proved to be a Platonic concept that is nigh impossible to kill. Sonic's emeralds are multiversal in his Universe, may not be in other Universes external to Sonic. Plus Unicron has tanked Blows from Primus who is nigh Outerversal and resisted the Star saber with ease which can sink the entire transformers cluster.

Once again unless I’m missing something do you know the definition of omnipotence? Unicron isn’t omnipotent and he has actually lost in battle. That by default means he’s not omnipotent. And Sonic’s chaos emeralds aren’t merely mutliversal because the universes are above the convention universes as they are infinite in space, they have extra dimensions, they have infinite universes, and in each universe is countless alternate zones so he’s more high complex multiverse as he reality warped two mutliverses alongside Megaman, and yes while it’s easy to say its a shared feat your forgetting that means the chaos energy was split as it was one set of emeralds meaning the feat could’ve been done by just Sonic but even lowballing the fact the sonic universe is so unique it’s high complex multiversal anyway. And once again outerversal doesn’t exist in marvel I’d recommend you revise the definition, it’s about being above all concepts but Unicron is literally the embodiment of evil he is a concept, this may mean he’s above lesser concepts but ultimately he isn’t above all concepts meaning he’s beyond good and bad meaning he’s very nature would change you have the definition of outerversal wrong on both a fundamental level and by definition.

Seperating the paragraph the sword of acorns is a piece of an outerversal being, The Source Of All, this being made everything, all zones this includes the marvel mutliverse, TMNT mutliverse and all others mentioned even the cosmic interstate which is beyond infinite as a universe has infinite infinite space, mutliple zones, timelines and there are infinite universes and multiverses have infinite universes and extradimensional realms like the afterlife or chaosforce. This is an actual outerversal being it is beyond good and evil and doesnt care if it’s power is used by bad guys like Master Mogul to obtain power to destroy ALL ZONES even the Real world or if it’s used by even background characters to drain Enerjak a mutliversal God above the Mogul who was going to destroy ALL ZONES. So as you can see TSOA really doesn’t care what’s going on or who has the sword or if his creation is completely destroyed which includes the real world.

Here's a bit more on Unicron:

Superhuman Physical Characteristics,

Avatar Creation,

Transformation (Can transform into his Planetary form at will),

Space-Time Manipulation,

True Flight & Spaceflight,

Large Size (Type 5 for his weakest versions, Type 9 for his stronger versions),

Immortality (Types 1, 3, 5 and 8; Unicron cannot die so long there exists Evil and Malice in the Multiverse - aka Cluster),

Body Control,

Corruption,

Energy Projection (His planet form has a massive energy cannon used to wipe the life of planets he is about to eat),

Skilled Swordsman, Soul Manipulation, Reality Warping (Can shape and mold all of reality to how he sees fit), Energy Manipulation (Can manipulate energy down to its most fundamental level. Wields all cosmic energy), Shapeshifting (Can take up the form of anything he desires at the moment), Size Manipulation, Regeneration (Low-Mid for his weakest version, comparable to other Transformers who can regain their limbs and arms with enough scrap up to Mid-Godly for his stronger versions, survived being erased from history),

Chaos Manipulation (By virtue of embodying this concept, he should have control over it), Dimensional Travel (Scaling from an extremely weak avatar of Vector Prime, who was able to access the planet of Gigantion through extreme effort, which was locked in another universe), Dimensional Storage (Likely capable of accessing the Transwarp), Void Manipulation (Can manipulate the swirl of nothingness), Existence Erasure (Can erase being from existence), Mathematics Manipulation, Physics Manipulation, Matter Manipulation (Can convert energy to matter and vice versa), Telepathy (Can telepathically communicate with people across the entire cosmos and make them his slaves), Mind Manipulation (Each evil action taken by mortal beings only happens because Unicron subconsciously wishes for it to be so) Empathic Manipulation, Morality Manipulation (Can influence one's morality to that of the side of evil), Reactive Evolution (Every time Unicron dies, he adapts from his previous body and becomes resistant), Quantum Manipulation (Can create quantum shockwaves), Empowerment (Empowered by Chaos, Fear, Death, Malice, Hate, Vengeance and many other negative feelings), Technology Manipulation & Power Bestowal (Can completely alter the structure of Transformers and make them stronger than usual), Large Size (Type 10), Higher-Dimensional Existence, Abstract Existence (Type 1. Embodies chaos and evil on a multiversal scale), Pocket Reality Manipulation (Can create and control his own pocket dimensions that exist outside of The Multiverse), Conceptual Manipulation (Type 2. Can remove concepts from the multiverse, such as the concept of order), Non-Corporeal (Exists as an idea. The very representation of chaos and evil itself), Acausality (Type 5. Exists outside the nature of cause and effect), Nonexistent Physiology (Stated to be an infinite nothing petty corporeal minds cannot imagine, he also encompasses the Void, a place of pure nothingness that exists beyond the Multiverse) Absorption (Everything Unicron devours becomes part of him) Resistance to Law Manipulation, Space-Time Manipulation, Soul Manipulation, Magic, Information Manipulation, Telepathy, and Reality Warping

I can tell this is copy and pasted but you do realise nearly all of this is irrelevant in front of a sword made from a truly omnipotent God capable of creating everything in and beyond the sonic mutliverse like the Megaman mutliverse, Maginaryworld mutliverse, real world etc.

But let’s seperate that part and I’ll do quick lore and scaling explanation on sonic.

So power rings, in Archie sonic, the transformation of Super Sonic can be entered using super rings, chaos emeralds, master emerald or super emerald. Each transformation is basically the same in terms of ability what changes is how strong it is as they draw from the chaos force at different speeds, however there are also other transformations besides super sonic that either rival it in power or exceed it in power. But for a start let’s start of with embodiments of chaos, embodiments of chaos are people capable of harnessing the power of the chaos force with emeralds or rings, however there powers all vary, the exhidna tribe e.g. Knuckles for instance can throw chaos energy blasts but he has to make a prayer to the chaos force to do so, shadow can do the same but he doesn’t have to speak, Sonic is an embodiment too but he has a force field that gives him plot armour what they all have in common is that they are all soaked in so much energy there existence is unpredictable. Stepping up we have chaos shadow who is shadow getting a direct link to the chaos force although his AP is unknown as he has hurt knuckles enerjak. Stepping up from there were have a being called enerjak, Enerjak was actually an ordinary echidna but using the chaos syphon on 8 emeralds he was infused with there power and gained a permanent link to the chaosforce becoming a non-corporal existence. The first Enerjak is that original scientist, although he is one with the chaos force since his body was not an embodiment of chaos he is the weakest Enerjak and by feats is weaker then Super Sonic. Super Sonic with the power rings has destroyed a universe. Super Sonic with the chaos emeralds has recreated the sonic mutliverse and scales to the power of the super genesis wave twice as it was the chaos emeralds power that did created the wave, accidentally destroyed a mutliverses dimensional matrix, beat Sigma who had the power of mutliple mutliverses and so on. Then we have chaos knuckles and Master Mogul, master Mogul absorbed the power of Chaos Knuckles, he then proceeded to destroy millions of multiverses effortlessly and it was stated he was going to destroy all zones in existence meaning the real world, the cosmic interstate, sonic mutliverse and all other multiverses and extradimensional realms, he would crush Unicron no diff. Above him we have Turbo tails who fought Mogul beat him absorbed his power and combined with his own sacrificed his power to recreate all the millions of multiverses destroyed resurrecting countless being even conceptual beings like Illumina who made the Maginaryworld multiverse which has mutliple extradimensional realms and infinite universes as these conceptual beings reside in multiverses. Above him we have Enerjak knuckles now enerjak has had mutliple incarnations as he possesses the bodies of echidna as there avatar’s, knuckles who was already the strongest embodiment of chaos out of all the echidna tribe was in his chaos knuckles form, the one that gave Mogul enough power to no diff millions of mutliverses, and then while in that form knuckles began absorbing the power of Enerjak which was placed in the master emerald a while ago indirectly placing a curse on it, absorbing energy until he went from chaos knuckles to Enerjak knuckles. So above the guy stated to solo all zones in existence. Then enter master emerald Super Sonic, which is super sonic but tinted slightly green, he beat Enerjak knuckles by absorbing the power of enerjak in the master emerald, thanks to his one billion ring aura he wasn’t affected by the curse and kept his mind and defeated Enerjak Knuckles. And if that wasn’t enough above that sonic is Ultra Sonic and then give him the sword of acorns.

Any words.

-Mbatz

Avatar image for vidi15king
Vidi15king

620

Forum Posts

18

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 0

@mbatz

So to comment on a few of your points.

"Light Gods were able to Harm Unicron" - when did this happen? Oh you mean when they teamed up with Primus to fight Unicron?? Yeah of course. Primus is the light God. You underestimate the term "Universal" and scale it to Sonic Universe. Universal in TRF is not the same as in Marvel, DC, Sonic, Star wars etc etc. Simply put a Universal feat in TRF is far above one in Sonic. My scaling in Sonic is with M

"Primus was able to harm Unicron" - Ummm Didn't even happen. Primus only stalemated Unicron and led him into a planet-sized asteroid. Primus struggles to even hurt Unicron even though being his 1/2.

"SWORD OF ACRONS IS BUILT OF A SUPERIOR BEING ... so can strip Unicron of his Powers" Wow I laughed so hard at this. UNICRON IS BUILT BY A SUPERIOR BEING. Actually he is 1/2 of the creator. The creator is a superior being. Unicron is a planotic concept that makes him Outerversal along with tanking the star saber and Primus. Sure the Sword of Acorns can "wipe things out of existence" but in the Sonic Universe only, there is no proof it works in Marvel or DC or TRF. Don't highball Sonic. The Star Saber outmatches Sword of Acrons by a milestone. Sure it is "said" not done, that the Sword of Acrons can suck energy from foes but it can't take off infinity. Unicron is infinity. You can't debate about that. ;)

"Infinite Multiverses ...." TRF Comics have a Megaverse, Omniverse, Hyperverse, Outerverse etc which are all infinite until we reach cluster level where there are 6 - 16 of these. TRF Universe makes Sonic's Universe look like an electron. Stop blabbering on how Unicron is multiversal by your faulted definition of Multiverse in TRF.

" IG Thanos has beaten abstracts??" Unless you mean He becomes the new Eternity, Please explain yourself over here? Thanos is Universal with the Gauntlet. He can't beat the Living tribunal , Chaos Order, Multi eternity, Beyonders etc. Please don't make such amped-up comments.

"Sword of Acrons is like Regulator Thanos" There is no proof of this. Clear assumption

"Archie Sonic tanked being rewritten out of existance", Umm nothing happened. Everyone was the same, no one had been rewritten away. The attack wasn't meant to rewritte then out of existance.

"Mammoth Mogul is infinite multiversal" Mammoth Mogul is not infinite. Multiverse is smaller than a cluster as I have explained.

"Sonic kills Solaris" Sure but Solaris is a Multiversal God as has been confirmed in many sites. Which is why he stays at multiversal. Unicron is Outerversal - cluster level.

"Ancient Walkers are equal to TOAA, The Presence" - You must either be a die hard fan for sonic or be deluded. The presence is the creator of DC = The source in Sonic. You must seriously require highball treatment. That is the worst statement I have ever come across in my comic career. Have some common sense, why would the source build a weapon to kill omnipotence? You can't kill omnipotence. That is ridiculous if you say so.

"Enerjacks is absorbed by Mogul.... to become infinite" Okay sure but infinite in his universe. Also Mogul has an infinite amount of planets absorbed to become the new God in their Universe, not even multiverse. Lastly Mogul can only destroy realities and zones in existence, not multiverses. Unicron would just eat him faster than sonic can run.

"Unicron can be harmed by any God of Light" you are ripping off transformers context and giving flesh to your pathetic assumption. If Unicron can be stopped by the Matrix of leadership that is that. You can't just alter it. Stop being such a fanboy.

"The sword would bully Unicron" The sword wouldn't even scratch Unicron. You just assume it will with such a flawed debate.

Mammoth Mogul is not divine. He will get stomped over anybody who is universal+.

"Do you understand to harm Unicron isn’t to have the matrix of leadership it’s to have a weapon that it pure good, hence why only Optimus can wield such a weapon" - Zeta Prime, Nodiums Prime, Onyx Prime were all corrupt Primes who wielded the matrix. They were not Pure Good. Please research more and don't rip off the context. What is said is said. The matrix of leadership is actually 1/2 the Power of primus and is the only hope against Unicron. "Sonic has 1/2 the God of light force...." so what, that wouldn't even impact Unicron. He needs Prime to win. You assume it will. You are acting as if you are the writer now. :)

"the comic makes it very, very clear Primus cast Evil out from himself." What comic are you referring to? There is none that says this. Primus was built by the One to stop Unicron but the creator is the only 1 who can eradicate all evil. Primus can't which is why he became the planet Cybertron.

"Sonic Dwarfs Unicron in power" Damn what fanboys come to now. Outerversal (Unicron) vs Low Multiversal (Sonic)??

"Mammoth Mogul destroyed the Multiverse" he didn't destroy everything. Only One million.

"The Vok are individualy Universal" Not true. The vok are multiversal (Megaverse + on tiering scale) on their own as TFWiki has said. "Multiversal singularities, the guardians of the One", to quote in Marvel Comics. Anyways how are the Guardians of the One just Universal? The One is the creator. How is @wesat wrong??

"Ramjet says that Unicron is not multiversal since he can only be at one place at a time" We all know that. Should we bring in scans to prove Ramjet wrong? You have twisted words to your benefit.

Again Archie Sonic is definetely Overhyped by so many interpretations due to the "Can", "Supposedly", "Maybe" and of course by many Wiki's that are dominated by fans.

Unicron stomps. Fullstop.

Avatar image for vidi15king
Vidi15king

620

Forum Posts

18

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 0

#31  Edited By Vidi15king

@deactivated-6008442e91d10: Hey there.

I have a lot of words to question on what you have just said. WOW

When did I disrespect you? I just called you out for making overarching claims. I'm sorry if I have offended you in anyway possible.

Outerverse exists in MARVEL. Beyonders are an example. You should know it too. I wonder why you question it. "No proof to show the beyonders exist outside the Universe". There are many scans to prove you wrong. Just google it up. You seem to prove stuff with broken logic.

Transformers has an outerverse. Eg: D void aka Dead Universe. No one can enter or leave it without being torn apart and so as 16 other clusters. This is not even on a scale to extra dimensions.

Unicron formed the dead Universe by eating the previous entire cosmos but left a little out which of course caused the Big bang.

Plus Unicron is continual throughout each cluster. (G1 = IDW = Dreamwave) Which makes him Outerversal - cluster threat. You can't deny that.

And how is Unicron based by Dimensions? He is a Platonic concept. Do you want to delve deeper into that too. "A concept weaker than other abstract beings" Sure TOAA or The One would beat him. Unicron is like the 2nd most powerful concept in the Universe. Sonic is still a mortal with a would that can be corrupted.

The source of all is only part of the Sonic Universe. You have no proof to claim such ridiculous points that he created TMNT etc etc. Source of All | Sonic News Network | Fandom

The TOAA Thanos fought is not the TOAA who is omnipotent. How does someone kill Omnipotence?

(1) Marvel: Is it true that The One Above All once lost a fight to Thanos? - Quora

Literally, every answer says that Thanos can't even beat the real TOAA.

Unicron is immortal in my previous answer, his only weakness is the Matrix of Leadership. He was never killed in H2H combat unless you mean Optimus Supreme. Sonic has been beaten badly many times in combat. I'm sure you know.....

You can't say Universal as a literal Universal feat. It varies in each comic, which is why I tried to explain it to you based on a better tiering system. But no, when you see A, it has to be A everywhere in all comics. Sonic being multiversal could be high or low in TRF.

"Sonic can travel to different universes to see punisher, TNMT...." Okay Sooo?? How does that prove me wrong? Unicron ate up Marvel, Dreamwave, Armada, G I Joe, IDW (even Godzilla), G1, etc etc. I can't see how your point (which most your flawed analysis is based on) trying to prove one creator overwhelms another creator in a different comic? Seriously?

"Unicron is not Omnipotent?" Ah yes you mean when Prime uses the Matrix to defeat Unicron?? Other than that he is Omnipotent, no other force can possibly kill him apart from the Creator, Primus or The Matrix. "Defeated in many battles many times??" State your sources.

"The source of all being a God who has impact on Megaman Universe..." A creator is equal in all terms with other creators. If we go by what you say then you change the history of comics. Damn. TOAA = The Presence = The One = The source of all. You have to stop highballing Sonic. Anyways TRF Has the Dead Universe which is infinite.

"Sword made from a truly Omnipotent God" You said it was a part of him, now its made by him? Contradiction. Anyways the sword doesn't make Sonic Omnipotent even. Plus you can't kill an abstract image. Wait so if Sonic is omnipotent with the sword why isn't he the source of all or the creators of Sonic universe like Regulator Thanos? The star Saber from TRF Dwarfs the Sword of Acron and it was nothing to Unicron when wielded. The SS can sink and eliminate the entire TRF Hyperverse.

"Infinite Multiverse..." We know the detail Sir, a Multiverse is still nowhere near a Megaverse, Omniverse etc etc. TRF Has a Megaverse. Complex Multiversal may exist in Sonic but you can't describe the same in TRF. You can mention any amount of extra dimensions or Maginary worlds but it doesn't even really matter. TRF has the Dead Universe and 16 other clusters that dwarf Sonic's multiverse. Multiverse>Omniverse>Hyperverse and so on. The TRF have an infinite amount of realities too. Not that any were named unlike Sonic.

"None of the feats for Unicron matter coz a blade made by an Omnipotent God" Unicron was made by an Omnipotent God? Whats the matter with that?

How am I making this difficult, your scaling is ridiculous. I know what the terms mean like outerversal.

"Sonic may have likely gone to the Marvel Universe" Umm assumptions?? No thank you.

"The Source Of All, this being made everything, all zones this includes the marvel mutliverse, TMNT mutliverse and all others mentioned even the cosmic interstate" Okay WHAT..... LIKE WTF LEVEL! I have no words to say to prove how ill faltered that statement is. Please if you are reading this, I don't even care if you can't explain and reason the other points (which you struggle to) but EXPLAIN THIS STATEMENT HERE PLEASE. MAN IN COMIC HISTORY I HAVE NEVER SEEN A COMMENT ON A SCALE LIKE THIS. I AM TRULY LOST FOR WORDS. OMG!!!

Didn't you copy and paste Sonic's feats?

Any words

Vidi15King

Avatar image for vidi15king
Vidi15king

620

Forum Posts

18

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 0

@vidi15king: @mbatz

You like to frequently comment on how the emeralds destroy multiverses in sonic and scale that to TRF Universe. The definition of the multiverse is not the same in TRF and Sonic. So according to your Logic, the Emeralds can destroy the 1 multiverse in Marvel whilst its true power is on par with Marvel's definition of Omniverse. Umm how does that work?

Scaling explanation in Sonic doesn't work in TRF. Common sense. No matter how much you try to prove yourself, explaining Sonic universe is not TRF.

Optimus Prime has resisted Nova Prime, a reality warper with endless powers? Isn't that the same as "Sonic taking on 2 reality warpers"

If you give Sonic rings and emeralds, then I give Unicron, D void and Megatronous Prime. Unicron stomps even by himself.

Oh Guess what, there is an IDW Sonic. I just found out. Too sad he got eaten.

Avatar image for vidi15king
Vidi15king

620

Forum Posts

18

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 0

Avatar image for deactivated-600860fe34eaa
deactivated-600860fe34eaa

1

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 0

-Mbatz

I apologise if i am rude in this post I wasn’t sober and it took my all just to get the grammar right and spell English

Furthermore looking at your latest posts it seems you have some class once again I think my friend drugged me so I left for the car.

But I don’t think it’s that bad, I removed the parts that would get me hunted by internet police.

Lets debate this my friend

@vidi15king: Im not sure if you saw my other post or not but I’ll d your current post now.

"Light Gods were able to Harm Unicron" - when did this happen? Oh you mean when they teamed up with Primus to fight Unicron?? Yeah of course. Primus is the light God. You underestimate the term "Universal" and scale it to Sonic Universe. Universal in TRF is not the same as in Marvel, DC, Sonic, Star wars etc etc. Simply put a Universal feat in TRF is far above one in Sonic. My scaling in Sonic is with M

This post is quite contradictory since you said yourself that the TRF mutliverse was the marvel multiverse.

The feat where Unicron eats most of the Marvel Universe is actually a high tier Outerverse feat, not a multiverse feat. It's dumb and ridiculous you put this as a low complex multiversal feat. You know itself that Marvel wrote these comics where their definition of Multiverse is equal to an Outerverse (If we include the Beyonders, Pre retcon Beyonder etc etc who exist in an outside universe).

So it seems you don’t really know what your talking about, especially since the sonic Cosmic interstate leads to the marvel mutliverse too as I stated but you just pretended I didn’t state that.

"Primus was able to harm Unicron" - Ummm Didn't even happen. Primus only stalemated Unicron and led him into a planet-sized asteroid. Primus struggles to even hurt Unicron even though being his 1/2.

Just to reiterate what you just said apparently an outerversal god got stuck in a planet, that’s what your trying to convince me right now, that an outerversal god in ALL canon’s of transformer got stuck in a planet. Anyway I’ll say this again neither unicorn or primus or there combination are confirmed outerversal which means to be above all concepts they are concepts, and even the nature of Primus as in the original combination of Unicron and Primus his nature isn’t known. So we can’t wank it as there are countless other beings in marvel that are stated to be omnipotent.

"SWORD OF ACRONS IS BUILT OF A SUPERIOR BEING ... so can strip Unicron of his Powers" Wow I laughed so hard at this. UNICRON IS BUILT BY A SUPERIOR BEING. Actually he is 1/2 of the creator. The creator is a superior being. Unicron is a planotic concept that makes him Outerversal along with tanking the star saber and Primus. Sure the Sword of Acorns can "wipe things out of existence" but in the Sonic Universe only, there is no proof it works in Marvel or DC or TRF. Don't highball Sonic. The Star Saber outmatches Sword of Acrons by a milestone. Sure it is "said" not done, that the Sword of Acrons can suck energy from foes but it can't take off infinity. Unicron is infinity. You can't debate about that. ;)

If you and a good laugh I almost died of laughter at this comment which is clearly a combination of cringe and denial. The sword has absorbed dark enerjak’s power the same Enerjak that killed super sonic and super shadow who are capable of defeating Sigma with the power of several mutliverses, multiverses that have infinite universes and one universe in infinite in space with several zones, coexisting timelines, extradimensional realms and more. By default according to the lore of Sonic it can absorb all things so it will absorb Unicron’s power by feats and statements.

"Infinite Multiverses ...." TRF Comics have a Megaverse, Omniverse, Hyperverse, Outerverse etc which are all infinite until we reach cluster level where there are 6 - 16 of these. TRF Universe makes Sonic's Universe look like an electron. Stop blabbering on how Unicron is multiversal by your faulted definition of Multiverse in TRF.

1. You haven’t proven it has a mega verse, omniverse, hyper verse and it definitely doesn’t have an outerverse or do I need to explain what it means again.

2. Even if you did prove somehow it had a mega verse, omniverse, hyper verse or outerverse you would need to prove it has acted on that level and not even wesat brought forward anything above complex mutliversal which is the destruction of either mutliple mutliverses or a mutliverse with extradimensional realms.

" IG Thanos has beaten abstracts??" Unless you mean He becomes the new Eternity, Please explain yourself over here? Thanos is Universal with the Gauntlet. He can't beat the Living tribunal , Chaos Order, Multi eternity, Beyonders etc. Please don't make such amped-up comments.

I don’t even remember saying this but given the fact it’s been a year since I was on this thread specifically who knows, all I know is I wouldn’t have said that unless it was to make an analogy. Furthermore it doesn’t change the fact IG Thanos has beaten abstracts I wouldn’t say he can beat all of them I just said he beat abstracts meaning a group but not all of them. Mephisto for instance was literally getting killed by Konshu with Mjolnir so abstracts powers vary. You just wanted to take what I meant out of context and mentioned the LT, I’m very sure eveyone one knows what happened in the infinity guantlet story line.

"Sword of Acrons is like Regulator Thanos" There is no proof of this. Clear assumption

Once again I never said this.

"Archie Sonic tanked being rewritten out of existance", Umm nothing happened. Everyone was the same, no one had been rewritten away. The attack wasn't meant to rewritte then out of existance.

You clearly don’t know the context, it was the ultimate Annihilator which was a device that created some universes it can also be used to erase someone from existence, Sonic was hit by it and the page he was in was destroyed then you see sonic escape from pitch whiteness as he crawls out of non-existence in his base form and Robotnik was permanently erased so Eggman took his place.

"Mammoth Mogul is infinite multiversal" Mammoth Mogul is not infinite. Multiverse is smaller than a cluster as I have explained.

As I explained but you didn’t listen:

The sonic mutliverse had both infinite universes and extradimensional realms, countless universe sized realms in a single dimension, countless timelines that coexist in one universe like Silver’s timeline which though should be erased isn‘t and of course unlike marvels universes Sonic’s universes are infinite in size. And that’s not including all the neighbouring mutliverses connected by the cosmic interstate such as the Maginaryworld world multiverse, megaman multiverse, marvel, TMNT, spawn etc. It’s Clear you don’t want to listen for some reason. For a start I can even mention infinite finite universes are equal to one infinite sized universe like the ones in sonic but they have infinite infinite sized universes, then zones in each of them, extra dimensional realms transcending them and alternate timelines in each universe. It’s larger then the average multiverse.

"Sonic kills Solaris" Sure but Solaris is a Multiversal God as has been confirmed in many sites. Which is why he stays at multiversal. Unicron is Outerversal - cluster level

This is almost true, it is indeed true Sonic beat Solaris but your forgetting an infinite sized universe is equal to infinite finite universes, Solaris was intending on destroying these infinite sized universes and there timelines. So it’s tier up and goes to complex multiversal and Solaris is canon fodder to the high tiers in the verse. You blatantly pretending other villains don’t exist it’s quite funny actually. Especially when you tried to debunk Mogul with an opinion. Like I said dying on that sentence I was dying of laughter.

"Ancient Walkers are equal to TOAA, The Presence" - You must either be a die hard fan for sonic or be deluded. The presence is the creator of DC = The source in Sonic. You must seriously require highball treatment. That is the worst statement I have ever come across in my comic career. Have some common sense, why would the source build a weapon to kill omnipotence? You can't kill omnipotence. That is ridiculous if you say so

Honestly were do you find these quotes, I don’t even remember saying that. The Source Of All is the omnipotent being of Sonic and there’s not much you can do about it. Once again your reaction is priceless, theres not even a valid explanation as to why he isn’t omnipotent. Saying “why would the source build a weapon to kill omnipotence”, we need flash it doesn’t work on itself just anyone, as “that’s ridiculous” ask the presence why he made the spear of destiny. Honestly it’s the uncultured that the most hilarious.

"Enerjacks is absorbed by Mogul.... to become infinite" Okay sure but infinite in his universe. Also Mogul has an infinite amount of planets absorbed to become the new God in their Universe, not even multiverse. Lastly Mogul can only destroy realities and zones in existence, not multiverses. Unicron would just eat him faster than sonic can run.

I almost mad a funny remark but I’ll calm myself you are most certainly an interesting guy. He wasn’t infinite in the universe he was beyond all multiverses and was casually oneshotting millions of them, he was stated to be able to destroy every zone. And multiverses are zones lol. Even the extradimensional realm that is the real world is the real zone. And he didn’t absorb planets he absrobed chaos energy.

"Unicron can be harmed by any God of Light" you are ripping off transformers context and giving flesh to your pathetic assumption. If Unicron can be stopped by the Matrix of leadership that is that. You can't just alter it. Stop being such a fanboy.

Wrong again my friend I actually all ready provided evidence in the past that the OP version of Unicron that wasn’t a transformer but a primordial god was harmed by light gods not just unicron and you forget that Sonic in his Ultra form adapts he would simply unknowingly become a light god that and the sword can auto teleport sonic out of harm, there is also the fact that if sonic realised he’s firing ligh based attacks once he adapts to shoot light energy, he can simply use the sword to absorb unicrons attacks and convert them into light energy and shoot unicron with his own converted energy. Even you must see the futility of such a battle. I could even go a step further and say as long as Sonic’s one billion ring aura isn’t disrupted he is immune precognition and fate aligns so that he wins basically fate hax. Add all that together and it’s the nastiest combination I’ve even seen.

"The sword would bully Unicron" The sword wouldn't even scratch Unicron. You just assume it will with such a flawed debate.

Once again not sure where you get these comments are they like summarised versions of what I say? Regardless it’s true intention remains. You would need to prove that Unicron can resist the power of an actual omnipotent being, the sword is beyond Unicron. Or to use your favourite words it’s actually outerversal. But to keep it professional your statements don’t matter, get some feats, have some class.

Mammoth Mogul is not divine. He will get stomped over anybody who is universal+.

So a guy that destroyed millions of mutliverses that are larger then marvel or DC mutliverses emphasis on millions is going to lose to a universal character. Once again get some feats, have some class.

"Do you understand to harm Unicron isn’t to have the matrix of leadership it’s to have a weapon that it pure good, hence why only Optimus can wield such a weapon" - Zeta Prime, Nodiums Prime, Onyx Prime were all corrupt Primes who wielded the matrix. They were not Pure Good. Please research more and don't rip off the context. What is said is said. The matrix of leadership is actually 1/2 the Power of primus and is the only hope against Unicron. "Sonic has 1/2 the God of light force...." so what, that wouldn't even impact Unicron. He needs Prime to win. You assume it will. You are acting as if you are the writer now. :)

1. Saying only Primus or the matrix of leadership can beat Unicron is a No Limits Fallacy next thing you’ll tell me the combination of Unicron and Primus can’t hurt unicron because it wasn’t stated.

2. If you finally realise the silliness of saying only Primus or the matrix of leadership can hurt primus is, because it insinuates there combination can’t according to your logic then that means anyone on there level can harm them.

3. Furthermore in post 24 Primus is referred to as a light god, he is a good/light abstract, I may have been indeed wrong that only a person of pure good can use the matrix of leadership but I was right that light and goodness can harm Unicron.

4. The sword has higher tiering then Unicron as it is made from an omnipotent god, Unicron is only nigh-omnipotent, the sword can channel all forms of energy this includes Unicron on a conceptual level, even chaos energy has feats of destroying conceptual beings like Illumina the god of imagination that made the maginaryworld’s.

"the comic makes it very, very clear Primus cast Evil out from himself." What comic are you referring to? There is none that says this. Primus was built by the One to stop Unicron but the creator is the only 1 who can eradicate all evil. Primus can't which is why he became the planet Cybertron.

It’s composite Unicron, it’s obvious we are referencing different canon’s.

"Sonic Dwarfs Unicron in power" Damn what fanboys come to now. Outerversal (Unicron) vs Low Multiversal (Sonic)??

You really don’t know what outerversal is. According to vs battles it means this:

Characters who can significantly affect, create and/or destroy realms or states that fully transcend infinitely-layered hierarchies and/or dimensional levels on a conceptual or existential level, normally being portrayed as entirely external abstractions that lie outside of the applications of spatiotemporal dimensionality as a constant defined by physics on any level, even compared to infinite or uncountably infinite dimensions, usually by perceiving them as akin to fiction or something similarly insignificant.

However, do note that a character can qualify for this rating even if their verse does not have an infinitely-layered or equivalent cosmology, as long as it is either stated, shown or left very obvious that the character in question already bypasses the very nature of such structures altogether, in a way that simply "stacking" more of them logically would not allow one to reach their level of power / size.

And as I said :

I don’t think you know what outerversal is? Outerversal is a term used to describe a plane of existence or a state of being where you are not bound by dimensions lets say your outerversal and your in a 5D realm or an infinite D realm you are unaffected by the hax of those realms or the people of who function on that level. There is only a hand full of people possibly outerversal in marvel and the only one closest individual is TOAA as he is supposed to be above all things and all creation however he was retconned to have rules in which allow him to function and that’s why when regulator Thanos absorbed TOAA he was angry becuase despite being the most powerful there we rules that stopped him from using his full power once he became TOAA that’s why Regulator Thanos wanted to blow himself up, so outerversal doesn’t even exist in marvel nor all verses have this concept.

For a start as I said the a universe in sonics multiverse is infinite in size so an infinite sized universe equals infinite finite universes which is mutliversal, infinite sonic universes equals infinite mutliverses with finite universes, infinite sonic universes and 1 extra dimesnional realm is above anything marvel or DC have so whilst I use the world mutliverse it’s not multiversal and they have several extra dimensional realms and even then there are many other mutliverses similar to them. So to put it simply you don’t know what your talking about.

"Mammoth Mogul destroyed the Multiverse" he didn't destroy everything. Only One million.

Correction he casually destroyed one million mutliverses that are on par with Sonic’s multiverse so your point is moot as it is vastky above complex mutliversal. Your also forgetting he was a threat to all zones including the real world so your point is especially moot.

"The Vok are individualy Universal" Not true. The vok are multiversal (Megaverse + on tiering scale) on their own as TFWiki has said. "Multiversal singularities, the guardians of the One", to quote in Marvel Comics. Anyways how are the Guardians of the One just Universal? The One is the creator. How is @wesat wrong??

You had to have read the actual scan it said they were together mutliversal from memory but I’m sure wesat will get the information.

"Ramjet says that Unicron is not multiversal since he can only be at one place at a time" We all know that. Should we bring in scans to prove Ramjet wrong? You have twisted words to your benefit.

I never twisted anything I stated thing as they were, last I checked you were calling a Unicron outerversal meaning not bound by dimensions or concepts, I guess the planet he got stuck in was outerversal too, it must have transcended outerversal to the point a being that by no means shouldnt be bound by a 3D object. Okay real talk nothing mentioned seems above complex mutiversal and even if it was that would mean your only capable of destroying infinite sonic universes not even the extradimensional realms since the sonic universe are built different to normal ones. Or do I need to explain that again.

Again Archie Sonic is definetely Overhyped by so many interpretations due to the "Can", "Supposedly", "Maybe" and of course by many Wiki's that are dominated by fans.

Unicron stomps. Fullstop.

Look if this was your attempt at trolling stop while your ahead I get a kick out of debunking trolls but if you were seriously trying to debate you unintentionally handled it like a troll. No proof, a lot of opinions, no proof, lowballing, turning a blind eye to certain feats, clearly biased, it’s fine to like a character but you literally didn’t post any scans. I literally can’t since I need to make 5 posts to do so, that and I already posted evidence in the past posts, which you overlooked.

-Mbatz

Avatar image for deactivated-6008683c9fa37
deactivated-6008683c9fa37

1

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 0

@vidi15king: okay truth be told I wasn’t drunk what happened was when I saw your first post when you were denying feats with opinions I got offended so I launched a factual rebuttal, however due to feeling offended I threw in a few light jabs nothing to offensive and I would say that I restrained my myself but then I copied what I wrote and reloaded the page and I saw your fact posts which made some sense I haven’t read the entire thing but we may come to a conclusion soon enough. Due to feeling ashamed for throwing ligh jabs at you I tried to come up with a story that would make it seem like it was someone else fault but in reality it was 100% me I was in the right state of mind. So I apologise for the light jabs in that post, I wouldn’t imagine they are offensive but it bothers me nontheless when good people get picked on and in this scenario I felt like I was the bully and it’s a putrid disgusting feeling that overcomes the body so I had to apologise. I hope we do continue with this debate. I apologise for not taking you seriously initially. The moment you apologised I realised my mistake, if you look at my last posts on my actual account you’ll see I was in aa debate against a user who thought sentry could beat dr. Manhattan and the guy was insulting me and the mods didn’t do anything, at the time I blamed the mods for not acting and that’s why I retaliated verbally to the verbal aggression ultimately me and the other guy got banned. I guess you could say because of that I have a low tolerance of trolls, however if we discuss each verses cosmology thoroughly enough I’m sure we can come to a conclusion, I’d rather my favourite character loses a debate as long as that’s what the outcome truly was. So with that in mind let’s debate with class.

-Mbatz

Avatar image for vidi15king
Vidi15king

620

Forum Posts

18

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 0

#37  Edited By Vidi15king

@deactivated-6008683c9fa37:

Hi there sorry for the late reply.

I've gotta say, well let me put Vivian from TRF 5 to quote: "Logic has left the building"

Let me explain how this matches everything you say.

You say

"

This post is quite contradictory since you said yourself that the TRF mutliverse was the marvel multiverse.....

So it seems you don’t really know what your talking about, especially since the sonic Cosmic interstate leads to the marvel mutliverse too as I stated but you just pretended I didn’t state that.

"

Cosmic Interstate | Sonic News Network | Fandom

I have no clue how you say Sonic has connections to the Marvel universe, it is pure myth. Please take the time to read the above link. If Sonic has been in the Marvel Universe, it is called a crossover. Whoever takes credit for writing Sonic has to make a deal with Marvel for a crossover which has never happened. Archie Sonic actually never even met the Punisher. The so called Cosmic interstate you refer to is just a Space Bridge that connects different zones to each other. Not different comics. Hell even the transformers have their own bridges as well. Jhiaxus, Shockwave, Megatron, Optimus, Bumblebee, Windblade etc throughout IDW, TF Prime, TF Cybertron have travelled through to new dimensions as well. Nothing special about that. Unicron doesn't need a space bridge to travel. He can instantly fly through space and time where the presence of Unicron wrecks total Havoc across Time and reality by just Showing up! Him showing up wipes off entire Galaxies.

https://comicvine1.cbsistatic.com/uploads/original/11129/111297761/5445307-12c7523dd2e93a27ca227c1de31c6d75.jpg

That picture is my proof.

Plus I never STATED "TRF Multiverse is Marvel multiverse" thats what you imply. Saying is different to interpretation. Something you take to the extreme.

You say

"

Just to reiterate what you just said apparently an outerversal god got stuck in a planet, that’s what your trying to convince me right now, that an outerversal god in ALL canon’s of transformer got stuck in a planet. Anyway I’ll say this again neither unicorn or primus or there combination are confirmed outerversal which means to be above all concepts they are concepts, and even the nature of Primus as in the original combination of Unicron and Primus his nature isn’t known. So we can’t wank it as there are countless other beings in marvel that are stated to be omnipotent.

"

Sure Unicron got stuck in a planet, Archie Sonic issue 175 - Eggman beats Archie Super Sonic. Yeah his robot suit out manouvered Sonic and leaves him "Helpess on the ground". Mega man has besteted Archie Sonic. Mobius got briefly phased out of and back into existence by the Annihilator, including Sonic, we'd have to assume every atom of dirt has multiversal level durability too. Man, that's Sonic for you Ladies and gentlemen. So now Dirt has multiversal Durability? :) He is not invincible nor even multiversal at base form. Only the emerald boosts makes him Low Multiversal. Hey didn't Regulator Thanos beat TOAA? Or street level heroes Beat Galactus, Batman beat Hulk, Hulk tears Dr. Strange's arms, Thanos loses to a peanut allergy, Superman in 1 crossover can lift Thor's Mjonir but in another he can't? Point is that writers create inconsisties which I like to avoid even in Sonic as well.

"Unicron not confirmed Outerversal" -

https://outlier-battles.fandom.com/wiki/Unicron

even says he's Outerversal.

Unicron (Canon)/itzmrbonezone | Character Stats and Profiles Wiki | Fandom

Does state "Possibly Outerversal"

Primus and Unicron combined give us the creator who is OMNI in everything. The claim "neither unicorn or primus or there combination are confirmed outerversal" is garbage and a lowball.

"Nature Of Primus not known" - Please expand

- https://comicvine1.cbsistatic.com/uploads/original/11116/111163466/4609212-untitled4.jpg

This clearly states what Primus is and a bit on his self and how he is a multiversal (Hyperversal) and lives as a form across every single reality.

You said

"

If you and a good laugh I almost died of laughter at this comment which is clearly a combination of cringe and denial. The sword has absorbed dark enerjak’s power the same Enerjak that killed super sonic and super shadow who are capable of defeating Sigma with the power of several mutliverses, multiverses that have infinite universes and one universe in infinite in space with several zones, coexisting timelines, extradimensional realms and more. By default according to the lore of Sonic it can absorb all things so it will absorb Unicron’s power by feats and statements.

"

Now I am dying of even more laughter. There is no denial or cringyworthy content shared by me. Sure Enerjak has the Power of several multiverses containing infinite Universes (never denied that). The Star Saber can erase the entire TRF cluster with a single blow. The cluster has infinite Hyperverses (infinite Megaverses), infinite Omniverses, infinite Megaverses and infinite Universes with Infinite dimensions, realms, timelines etc. You know the package. The Star Saber was forged by Solus Prime (God) who was part of the Original 13 Primes. Anyone who wields this weapon becomes A God (Definition varies across each comic) as Windblade says to Optimus.

https://i.kym-cdn.com/photos/images/original/000/937/416/6a5.jpg

https://tfwiki.net/mediawiki/images2/thumb/e/e6/OP18-SolusPrimeStarSaber.jpg/300px-OP18-SolusPrimeStarSaber.jpg

https://2.bp.blogspot.com/034-xDxT8I-h6Gl4WF-nShn5EeVQgXdK2Kw4h3Zi-wBGwcQqI6G-MNONnRel2Yu71We2pWhsfK_3KgGCKZ6PveHJValWkjlyURkBYNSQADqIRSk-oScP7rESIG-lSuwJh_Y6gNvP2w=s1600

Both images talk about the True Power of the Star Saber which is transverse level. When wielded on Unicron by Prima (First Prime), it does nothing to him.

Sword of Acorn is at least Multiverse Level. Sword of Acorns | Character Level Wiki | Fandom

Several Multiverses is a number. A sword that snuffs out all infinite multiverses with infinite dimensions is on another level.

"Lore of Sonic it can absorb all things so it will absorb Unicron’s power by feats and statements" - Define "all things" and where does it say this? The sword would do nothing to Unicron.

You said

"

You haven’t proven it has a mega verse, omniverse, hyper verse and it definitely doesn’t have an outerverse or do I need to explain what it means again.

2. Even if you did prove somehow it had a mega verse, omniverse, hyper verse or outerverse you would need to prove it has acted on that level and not even wesat brought forward anything above complex mutliversal which is the destruction of either mutliple mutliverses or a mutliverse with extradimensional realms.

"

Simple TRF Universe explanation:

In transformers, we have infinite universes with infinite dimensions and infinite possibilities. These Universes are connected through bridges (If i’m right) just like Marvel’s crossroads. above that we have Multiverses which section the Universes into collective numbers. These Multiverses are said to be infinite but the answers are vague. Beyond that we have the Megaverse which well sections Multiverses and so on until we reach Quantaversal (Clusters) which range from around 6 to 16 clusters in relation to the Number of comics and versions released of each transformer. No one can be Quantaversal unless it’s Unicron or Primus who are the 1/2 ‘s of creation and darkness, 13 Primes, The Vok, D void or Alternity Timelines. The transformers have infinite possibilities just like Marvel but I commend Marvel’s efforts to explore these alternative realities in their comics over the transformers. Above these clusters, we have the two whole Transformer Universes, living and dead. D void is the living embodiment of the dead transformers universe, who arguably was created by Unicron or The one (i’m not so sure) after Unicron consumes all of the Transformers Universe (Cluster) from the Marvel comics to leave something called the void. Later on D void comes into possession of this void whilst a separate big bang created our transformers Quantaverse. The One aka creator is in control of all clusters in the Universe and is completely omnipresent. The Omniverse in TRF contains every single comic book in fiction where we find composite Unicron's presence but is debateable whether he took down the Omniverse, which is quite an incredible feat. Read below to find out more.

Omniverse - Transformers Wiki (tfwiki.net)

After leaving the Transformersmultiverse and travelling through the Megaverse, dimensional travelers will find themselves in the Omniverse, which consists of every possible reality imaginable. Most of them have no Transformers whatsoever while many others are inimical to both human and Transformer life.

Primus wishes to join the Omniversal Matrix when he has completed his cosmic mission,[1] and The Fallen has been classified as an "Omniversal Tyrant".[2]

Quoting From TF Wiki.

The Fallen (aka Megatronous Prime) is Unicron's servant. If Fallen (his servant) is an Omniversal threat, Unicron is far above The Fallen.

Still Quoting: He 2015 Facebook Ask Vector Prime feature finally canonized the concept of the Omniverse as existing "outside" the established Transformers multiverse, and encompassing every fictional world ever created that doesn't involve the Transformers.

Archie Sonic is in TRF, and can easily be met by Unicron. This goes to show the size of TRF Universe. Argue as much as you want. Here is my proof. Where's yours?

Plus here is the Macroverse aka Microverse - Sonic doesn't even have this?

Microspace - Transformers Wiki (tfwiki.net)

Which completely overturns any point you mention about Sonic Universe..... The Sonic Universe doesn't have an Omniverse. Unicron has eaten all of this proved above as shown in Marvel Comics.

You said

"

Honestly were do you find these quotes, I don’t even remember saying that. The Source Of All is the omnipotent being of Sonic and there’s not much you can do about it. Once again your reaction is priceless, theres not even a valid explanation as to why he isn’t omnipotent. Saying “why would the source build a weapon to kill omnipotence”, we need flash it doesn’t work on itself just anyone, as “that’s ridiculous” ask the presence why he made the spear of destiny. Honestly it’s the uncultured that the most hilarious.

"

Quoting From YOU: The Sword of Acorns absorbed and killed the Ancient Walkers. To put this simply the ancient Walkerss are the equivalent of TOAA or Presence and he was good half of the Chaos Force while Enerjak was the dark half.

- You forget what you say? Damn no wonder the inconsisties.

"Source of all is Omnipotent" - Yeah I already know mate :)

"why would the source build a weapon to kill omnipotence" - The reason why I said that is to prove that the Sword of Acorn cannot Kill Omnipotence. The Spear of Destiny is not an Omniscient killer. The sword of Acron is at least Multiversal (refer above link). The Matrix is an Omniscient killer as said and proved by the Fallen in IDW Movie Comics 2019.

"Honestly it’s the uncultured that the most hilarious." - What a perfect definition of your answers.

Just as I said, Logic has left the building.

You said

"

1. Saying only Primus or the matrix of leadership can beat Unicron is a No Limits Fallacy next thing you’ll tell me the combination of Unicron and Primus can’t hurt unicron because it wasn’t stated.

2. If you finally realise the silliness of saying only Primus or the matrix of leadership can hurt primus is, because it insinuates there combination can’t according to your logic then that means anyone on there level can harm them.

3. Furthermore in post 24 Primus is referred to as a light god, he is a good/light abstract, I may have been indeed wrong that only a person of pure good can use the matrix of leadership but I was right that light and goodness can harm Unicron.

4. The sword has higher tiering then Unicron as it is made from an omnipotent god, Unicron is only nigh-omnipotent, the sword can channel all forms of energy this includes Unicron on a conceptual level, even chaos energy has feats of destroying conceptual beings like Illumina the god of imagination that made the maginaryworld’s.

"

1) Makes no sense, A combination of Unicron and Primus makes the One (creator) which beats Unicron unless it's Marvel or composite Unicron. The Matrix is Unicron's weakness and is the only way of stopping him. There is no "Fallacy" in this. Google Up Unicron Bio.

2) The Matrix is Primus's power in an artifact. Basically 1/2 the power of the creator. This is what can beat Unicron if thats what you mean. Please rephrase this point.

3) Primus says he is light, it is not confirmed in any way? Saying is not Doing. Big difference. Light has many interpretations - Hope, Savior, Justice, Hero, Good, Guardian.... You can't base off the fact Goodwill and anything with light beats Unicron. If so, then why can't Optimus Prime (Purity) beat Unicron H2H. Same goes to Vector Prime who is constantly dominated by Unicron, Vector Prime wields the creation Matrix to represent his purity, but still cannot beat him. Sonic wouldn't do much with having 1/2 of light. Well according to your assumption, then Sixshot (Phase Sixer), Overlord would betest Unicron - that is impossible. Hell even the Fallen would beat Unicron with some of his energon. By this assumption, Energon has light particles in it, wait that would harm Unicron, when he has clearly devored countless energon cubes in his history??? Mate even the Sun or stars would harm Unicron if we go by what you said but Unicron has consumed infinity of these. Stop making the dumbest applications in comic history. Again - 'Logic has left the building'.

4) Unicron is Omnipotent through Durability and Attack potency. Anyways how do you define Omnipotence and what sectors do you apply it to? Eg: Vector Prime is the guardian of Space and Time where he is omnipotent in that direction but can be killed with enough force. D void is Omnipotent in manipulation and being the Dead Universe but dead if in the living Universe, Nova Prime is omnipotent in reality warping but Optimus killed him with bare fists.

Plus, just because an Omnipotent being creates something, it doesn't make it Omnipotent. The source of all can create something, even a toy truck (haha get the irony) ..... Oh wait, it's omnipotent now?

Again - Logic has left the building. Vivian, I can see what you mean now.

You said

"

I never twisted anything I stated thing as they were, last I checked you were calling a Unicron outerversal meaning not bound by dimensions or concepts, I guess the planet he got stuck in was outerversal too, it must have transcended outerversal to the point a being that by no means shouldnt be bound by a 3D object. Okay real talk nothing mentioned seems above complex mutiversal and even if it was that would mean your only capable of destroying infinite sonic universes not even the extradimensional realms since the sonic universe are built different to normal ones. Or do I need to explain that again.

"

So in Archie Sonic 175 - Eggman is multiversal? Wait, so Jane Foster who can destroy a galaxy gets caught under airport rubble, so the rubble is galaxy level? So Batman who can kill Darkseid gets stuck under mountain rubble? Wait the rubble is Darkseid level? Again Inconsistency. Unicron would want a planet mode? Come on he looks way better.... and anyways Primus needed to create Cybertron to ensure survival of the cluster so previous actions aren't repeated.

Real Talk is facts - not Opinions with flawed logic.

Unicron has consumed all of reality, Time and Space. Dimensions will be gone and don't matter.

Spare me the repeated preaching on the Sonic Universe.... I know what it is enough. Saves energy. TRF Universe dwarfs Sonic.

You said

"

Look if this was your attempt at trolling stop while your ahead I get a kick out of debunking trolls but if you were seriously trying to debate you unintentionally handled it like a troll. No proof, a lot of opinions, no proof, lowballing, turning a blind eye to certain feats, clearly biased, it’s fine to like a character but you literally didn’t post any scans. I literally can’t since I need to make 5 posts to do so, that and I already posted evidence in the past posts, which you overlooked.

"

Trolling? No thats called being a challenge. Of course a Fanboy has a thick skull impossible to get to cough* Archie Sonic cough* No wonder you get blocked due to immense speculation and irrelevant points.

Evidence??????? Not one single website mentioned, only some scans but to explain speculation which is highball to new levels.

Biased????? Says the one who puts 1/2 the creator at Low Complex Multiversal? And of course tries to Prove the Sonic Universe Dwarfs Marvel, DC, TRF. UMMM.....

"Seriously trying to debate you unintentionally handled it like a troll" - almost everything you say is not even existant or real. Bad speculation, Bad interpretation, Makes everything in Sonic (mostly filled with "uncertanity") a fact.

More information if you still want:

Why is your answer then literally considering The Universe in TRF to be a literal meaning of Universe as scaled in other comics. So let’s take Marvel comics which has 1 Multiverse, so according to you by that logic, any hero who is Multiversal has only the power of 1 multiverse? That’s quite a bad claim and clearly showing Marvel characters as underpowered. Scaling should be there. A Universe in TRF is not on the scale of Universe as a common definition. If we take your scaling, then many characters across numerous comics would be not where they are destined to be and many like Archie Sonic would be Omnipotent – which is false. This is just comparing Universe as Universe in a comic definition. It’s like saying Superman in DC is same as Superman in the cross over with Marvel or in Pre Crisis Superman. That is wrong. Plus you if we take your interpretation, a Big bang explosion doesn’t last for a Trillion years (since you said the definition of Universe = TRF Universe). Which is what makes the scans you "Debunk" prove a Universe in TRF is different to a Universe in Marvel, Universe in DC, Universe in Sonic etc.

The TRF has many different divisions amongst a single Universe. Below the infinite Universe (base) and it’s realms, is the Macroverse (IDW and so on) and Microverse (Marvel) which are infinite in size and have their dimensions too. The Microverse is binded by a portal which requires a space bridge to travel through from the Universe. Windblade, Optimus, Micronus Prime (creator), Baron Karza etc have been there. The Microverse somewhat negates the Principles of Space Time continuum as Micronous and Baron both warn Optimus before travelling to the Microverse. If we dive into more detail, The Vok (Guardians of the One) are multiversal singularities (Not on scaling) who plague on the Macroverse at full power but doesn’t annihilate it. That goes to reflect how the Macroverse is not a Universe but a multiverse in hiding, far bigger than the abilities of the Vok! Remember, Unicron can travel through Space Time at any limit wanted in the present Universe. We can easily clarify Unicron has eaten the Macroverse, Microverse and Universe – all multiversal. Which are all infinite in size with infinite realities in each Universe. How is this just Universal?

Now how can we prove that Unicron has eaten anything above Multiversal? Easy. Before I jump into Vector Prime, I shall inform you that Unicron exceeds the Power of the Vok (Guardians of the One aka Creator). The Vok are Multiversal (Not to scale) Singularities (Omniversal Battlefield) who have plagued on the Macroverse. The Vok are the embodiment of reality, made up of the past, present and future all in One, which makes them Multiversal (Not to scale). Unicron is above the depths of the Vok as he is the total force of 16 clusters put together. Which all include the Macroverse, Microverse, Universe, Multiverse, Megaverse, Hyperverse, Quantaverse (alternity), Outerverse (D void in IDW, Flaternity, Hytherion – exist and devour dimensions) in a single CLUSTER and finally outside the clusters, the Omniverse (not really connected to Transformers but contains all stories of fiction – The Fallen has been there (Omniversal Tyrant), Unicron consumed all of the Omniverse before the Transformers began (Marvel, Dreamwave, IDW - refer Simon Furman, Unicron Trilogy, TF Cybertron - Vector Prime quotes this in the cartoon, etc), Vector Prime – met Ben 10 and many other Primes – just can’t remember). Jumping to Vector Prime now, he is the Guardian of Space and Time throughout the Omniverse – not a universal character but way above. Vector Prime is omnipotent in that direction, but wait, what happens when He meets Unicron, Vector struggles to even hold Unicron back, let alone damage him. Vector also confirms himself to align himself as a “higher dimensional being” when meeting a Vector Prime from a new reality. Still could not Stop Unicron. Vector Prime clarifies in a Vector Prime question that Unicron has devoured “Unquantifiable Universes” and “has consumed an entire reality timeline” and “Has consumed realities from the Big Bang to the Big crunch (entropic heat death – unquantifiable heat) ,” which goes to prove Unicron is far above Multiversal. How is Unicron Universal?

Wait can Unicron be Omiversal – Outerversal in that case, lets find out?

In IDW Publishing Simon Furman describes Unicron, who is a threat to G1, Marvel TRF, IDW, Dreamwave and many unnamed, as an “Omniversal chaos”. It is quite obvious to then prove the clusters are on Par to a Quantaverse but lower than the Omniverse. The Vector Prime answer below shows how infinity is the Omniverse. A cluster is just below the Omniverse. That is not Universal?

The 2015 Facebook Ask Vector Prime (Ask Vector Prime) feature finally canonized the concept of the Omniverse as existing "outside" the established *Transformers* multiverse, and encompassing every fictional world ever created that doesn't involve the Transformers.

So the Omniverse is all of Marvel, DC, Sonic etc all put together, existing above TRF.

**Dear Vector Prime,**

**What other sort of dimensions and realities exist outside of the Multiverse? What are they like, and who resides there?**

A: Dear Omniversal Ontologist,

Imagine the strangest inhabited universe you can conceive of, places where gravity operates linearly and electromagnetism by the inverse cubed rule and topology has 13 basic dimensions instead of 17. How alien it must be. Then ponder the wildest universes those beings could articulate. Then realize that even these musings fail to capture the uncountable infinities that exist in the Omniverse.

Read along where I show Unicron’s own personal servants and other powerful beings are an Omniversal threat

More Proof: Let’s take the Alternity timeline. By base they are Quantaversal (Omniversal Battlefield - Alternity) as they combat the Hytherions who consume Dimensions, hence proving the existence of dimensions in TRF which are infinite and exist in a single Universe. Unicron in Marvel ate all of this Dimensions in the same comic I have shown you. According to definition, this is Universal but if we look deeper than the ice (which you didn’t exactly do), this hits way higher than just Universal. By fair comparison, The 13 Primes scale upto the Alternity but still can do No damage to Unicron. Unicron has always bested the 13 Primes, unless the seek the help of Primus but still can’t beat Unicron.

Further proof: The Fallen (Megatronus Prime) is an Omniversal threat by fair scale, and anyways has been labelled as one. The Fallen Is consistently known as being able to unmake creation itself referring to the multiverse itself which is considered infinite in size, Can produce the same level of energy as the Big Bang created from Unicron's and Primus's clash which created the Multiverse (not to scale) itself. The fallen serves Unicron and deeply fears him where in IDW Movie Comics 2019, seeks the Matrix which he confirms is an “Omni being killer”. The Matrix is enough to only stop Unicron, not even kill him! How is that Universal? If you still are unsure of the fallen, he is the equal of Prima with the Star Saber. Prima on top of being a hyperversal God (13 Primes), has the Star Saber, a weapon that destroys the entire TRF Cluster. Prima has constantly wielded this at Unicron but had no Impact. Only Nexus Prime did wield this blade but it Only split Unicron into a singularity for each Cluster. It didn’t kill him. Unicron later combines himself back again.

Well, that’s not clear or enough….. we need more?

Okay then lets take Primus (other ½). In the IDW comics, he contains a Black Hole that would have killed him in every single Quantaverse and sunk practically all Clusters and left a mark on the Omniverse. Primus was never able to beat Unicron in H2H combat (as shown in many comics) and only with the other 13 Primes managed to deflect Unicron away into a new Dimension. Which didn’t work for too long as he came back later. Not even kill him.

Further on, after Megatronous Prime (fallen), along with Galvatron, Arcee, Nova Prime along with Omega Supreme with Sentinels began the siege on Antilla to spread Cybertronian Dominance across the entire IDW Cluster. When Antilla collapsed due to a madman Antillan scientist, he created a Black Hole that occurred across every singly reality in the TRF IDW Cluster which was like an interconnection to each reality. Simply put the Black hole had the combined destruction of every reality put into one. Omega Supreme, Megatronous, Acree, Galvatron walked out perfectly fine. Now scale that to Unicron. Omega Supreme has lost every fight against Unicron, and in the ending of IDW Transformers, we see Omega Supreme torn in half at the belly of Unicron, Megatronous serves under Unicron, Galvatron gets pimp slapped by Unicron. Arcee is nowhere near Unicron.

Regenisis Shockwave who has the 13 Ores (infinity stones but not universally limited) and drains power of 2 Clusters, shoots Optimus and Megatron with the same cannon, which only breaks Prime’s windshields. Regenisis can almost do anything he desired in his particular cluster like Thanos can with the IG. Okay scale this Optimus to Unicron, who practically dies to Unicron in H2H combat and had to sacrifice the name of the Prime to Unicron’s creator to beat Unicron. If Unicron is universal, how can he kill Optimus Prime who is unarguably Multiversal+?

TF Wiki from Primal Scream says this:

At the dawn of time, two gods—Primus and Unicron—fight. Unicron beats the crap out of Primus on a physical plane, then on the astral plane. In a last desperate ploy, Primus escapes the astral plane into a massive metal asteroid. Unicron does the same, thinking Primus is onto something, and as a result they are both trapped.

  • Astral Plane if you google up means this in comics: relating to a supposed non-physical realm of existence to which various psychic and paranormal phenomena are ascribed, and in which the physical human body is said to have a counterpart. Simply put, fits in the definition of Outerversal.
  • Paranormal interpretation of an out-of-body experience achieved either awake or via lucid dreaming or deep meditation. The concept of astral projection assumes the existence of another body, separate from the physical body and capable of traveling to non-physical planes of existence - Marvel Fandom

Please Rephrase how “Concept takes you so far” - Platonic Concept is confirmed Outerversal in many sites. TF Wiki, Fandom, Outlier Fandom, Jungle Fandom, Omiversal battlefield, Death Battles and many more. By Outerversal I am telling the Fandom definition, which you know of.

Plus a whole more evidence but it would take me 20 years to type it all up.

You know the funny thing is that you Debunk Unicron but never even Debunk Archie Sonic. Instead you label his top feats without even including the Inconsisties of the Archie continuity, how he has been defeated with ease by characters who aren’t even Universal.

"He was able to overpower and warp a device that used Chaos Control to Reality Warp with no limits"

- Is a Fallacy. Reality Warping above a certain emerald is nowhere near the definition of Outerversal. Hell then Nova Prime infused D void and Regenisis Shockwave should be Outerversal too if we take your point into context. Plus no site even places Archie Sonic at Outerversal.

Plus the TRF Universe has many Universe layers where Sonic’s Universe has around 3 parts - (Zones - Galaxy to Universe or smaller, Universe ( with extra dimensions etc) and Multiverse (sectioning all infinite Universes) ) - all infinite and then separately contain infinite extra dimensions plus realities, with a Cosmic interstellar (space Bridge) to connect them all. Outside them, there is a Magiworld and Afterlife or something of similar basis. So that's 5 parts of infinity.

TRF - Microverse (infinite aka Mini multiverse), Macroverse (infinite aka mini multiverse) , Universe (infinite containing infinite realities, dimensions etc) , Multiverse (infinite refer universe) , Megaverse (infinite - refer universe) , Hyperverse (infinite - refer Universe), Quantaverse (infinity - refer Universe - use Alternity as proof) or a cluster and then above all, Omniverse (all fiction comics, some Transformers). That’s 12 parts.

On a scale, we can see which one is bigger.

You quote

Who IIRC is stronger than Master Mogul who destroyed millions of Infinite Multiverses

-Inconsistency, here is why….. The Mogul you refer too, destroying a million multiverses is from the Mid 50s of the Comic publications. Plus considering Sonic needed the help of Hyper Knuckles, Turbo Tails, and a bunch of other Mobians as well as a pre-ordained prophecy by the Ancient Walkers and a specific device to take him down (he didn't even land the final blow, lol). Sonic didn’t Solo him

Well let’s take a more recent Publication - Mid 150’s. Mogul gained power to absorb the entire chaos force, who was far significantly weaker than the Old one. This Mogul stomped over Archie Sonic. Sonic never even came close to beating the multiversal Mogul and the only way any of these characters approached multiversal status was through very specific circumstances.

You Quote

He toyed with Enerjack Knuckles and was completely unaffected by his erasure Super Sonic with the chaos emeralds has recreated the sonic mutliverse and scales to the power of the super genesis wave twice as it was the chaos emeralds power that did created the wave, accidentally destroyed a mutliverses dimensional matrix, beat Sigma who had the power of mutliple mutliverses and so on.

-Why do people Hype up being erased is some sort of infinite feat? Plus, is there any source that shows Enerjak Knuckles cannot be erased from existence, which is really bad plot giving, as by this logic then Enerjak should not exist in all realities? But Enerjak is a being, who can be harmed, knocked out etc etc. Enerjak is not some multiversal reality warper. I don't even know where this comes from. Some people probably saw the description on the wiki about having 'power limited by imagination' and thought, this guy is like a living IG despite the fact he's been beaten by this. Enerjak Knuckles was even weakened before Sonic fought him. That same Knuckles was not even creative with his attacks and Knuckles’s dad had to sacrifice himself to destroy the magic of Enerjak Knuckles or Sonic would have got stomped along. Plus take Dark Enerjak (from another Universe) who was far weaker that the Enerjak being hyped about. Sonic was beaten down with ease.

Sonic did not just rewrite his multiverse under his own power - even in the scan itself, it says Sonic and Mega Man are using the chaos energy of the genesis wave itself to do this. He specifically could not stop the wave - all he did was make it so the contents of the new multiverse were the same as the old (and failed anyway lol). Impressive, but look at it with common logic. If Sonic truly could just reality warp whenever he wanted he would never have to fight Robotnik, Mogul, the Black Arms, the Dark Legion, the Order of Ixis, Solaris, the Xorda, literally any and all of the villains he fights in the series. all of whom are really not multiversal in any sense of the word.

You Quote

"

Then we have chaos knuckles and Master Mogul, master Mogul absorbed the power of Chaos Knuckles, he then proceeded to destroy millions of multiverses effortlessly and it was stated he was going to destroy all zones in existence meaning the real world, the cosmic interstate, sonic mutliverse and all other multiverses and extradimensional realms, he would crush Unicron no diff.

"

You are fusing Multiple Sonics together, firstly on Sigma, Eggman and Wily severed the source of Sigma's power, the Master Unit before Super Sonic and Super Mega Man were able to do anything noteworthy to him. Otherwise Sigma would have made Sonic a pile of garbage and threw him off. Plus read carefully what Sigma says "Infinite number of Worlds". Okay having an infinite number of Worlds makes him Universal (Sonic scale) and nowhere near multiversal? Sigma basically becomes IG Thanos, not a multiversal superpower. Get your fact correct! Plus Sigma can only "infect all of creation" not destroy it. Megatronous Prime (The fallen) can unmake all of creation with enough energy from him. Hell and that's not even at his max! The fallen is a mere electron in power compared to Unicron.

"Stated he could destroy zones" - Zones have a varied meaning from just a small pocket dimension to a universe. Plus there is nowhere it even says that? Prove it.

"Real World, Cosmic interstate, Sonic Multiverse...... Unicron No diff"

- All components you love to label are just limited to the Multiverse. The Transformers have an Omniverse which even includes Sonic as a cluster. Mogul was a cluster threat (Very debatable) but let's highball him to that spot, not an Omniversal threat. Unicron has devoured the Omniverse before (refer to the above points I made) so Sonic is nothing to Unicron.

You Quote:

"

Sonic is an embodiment too but he has a force field that gives him plot armour what they all have in common is that they are all soaked in so much energy there existence is unpredictable.

"

Sonic is not an embodiment of anything at base form. I have no clue how you come to this conclusion. Anyways, a force field is limited by the laws of physics which can be easily reversed by Intellect beings like Shockwave, Jhiaxus as he has done throughout the IDW Continuity, "Plot armor" is something very common in Sonic as many writers like Ian era, etc etc have introduced the best level of Contradiction. One publishment, Sonic is Universal, in another recent, Sonic is beaten by a city level enemy.

"Soaked in so much energy - Existence is unpredictable" - Unclear point. Sonic lives in his Universe and is a being made of matter, move to gravity's laws etc. Sonic can be punched, killed, assaulted whatever. Plus how does energy correlate with existence? You can't even possibly say that energy can be manipulated and created to represent existence, there is something called Physics, even in comics. Existence is being present in realities or in the Outerverse where what you do, makes you who you are? Energy is the ability to do Work. If Sonic is "Unpredictable" then why does he have enemies, knowing that Sonic could be sided with Good or be sided with Bad? And Sonic's powers are predictable, everyone in the Sonic Universe knows his character, Bio, Power, Persona, Likes, Dislikes etc. How is his existence unpredictable? Be more clear please. With this interpretation, then why does Sonic have a love life?, why is there a plot?, why is there a story? Sonic then can do whatever he wants to his own will..... like seriously, do you actually consider this even?

You Quote

"

unlike marvels universes Sonic’s universes are infinite in size.

"

WTF read Quasar #28....... The Marvel Universe is infinite. Really bad assumption

You Quote

"

Turbo tails who fought Mogul beat him absorbed his power and combined with his own sacrificed his power to recreate all the millions of multiverses

"

Turbo tails never Soloed him on the base form. Turbo tails fused every being of himself in all alternate realities to fight Mogul shown here. So the power absorbed was by every single Turbo tail in all realities. Not by a singular Turbo tail. Otherwise, it would have been a Big Bang, where Turbo Tails is nowhere near this scale. If you want this version, I bring composite Unicron who will slaughter them.

You Quote

"

Of the Seven chaos emeralds super genesis wave which sonic directly scales too as he un did it, although it’s worth mentioning the mutliverses both megaman’s and Sonic’s and the Maginaryworld multiverse were both destroyed.

"

This is a contradiction, in a later post you say he represents a single emerald. Be very clear in what you say amigo. Refer to my earlier breakdowns as I talk about this feat in more detail.

You Quote

"

retconned to have rules in which allow him to function and that’s why when regulator Thanos absorbed TOAA he was angry becuase despite being the most powerful there we rules that stopped him from using his full power once he became TOAA

"

No This is wholeheartedly false. It was Starlin's pathetic obsession of Thanos that overturned the definition of the Marvel Universe, until further on this Comic was deemed broken by the Writers after Starlin left, and they came up with a proper definition of the Marvel Universe (something you don't seem to research about). Editor in Chief Tom Brevoort stated Thanos: the End is explicitly not in continuity at all, it’s not even an alternate universe. As Starlin’s Infinity trilogy explicitly depends on the events of Thanos The End, it too cannot be in continuity. (Taken from Quora) That doesn’t even get into how Starlin’s work violates the established rules for the Tribunal, TOAA and all sorts of stuff. A creator is omnipotent and can do anything it wants, there are no "rules" that define a creator. Plus the comic is contradictory, This TOAA is not even omnipotent which makes Regulator Thanos not exactly Omnipotent. It makes him nigh. You can't kill omnipotence or ascend above it. If we take your flawed point into consideration, then Holy Hell will there be chaos across every Comic ever created, redefining Omnipotence from the Cambridge dictionary.

You Quote

"

truly omnipotent God capable of creating everything in and beyond the sonic mutliverse like the Megaman mutliverse, Maginaryworld mutliverse, real world etc.

"

"Truly Omnipotent" - I'm sorry but please define me this term which is nowhere present in any Death Battle, Fandom, Wiki etc. There is no true Omnipotence present in any comic. This argument is getting ridiculous the more I read your answers and rather a comedy script. Megaman and Maginaryworld exist in the whole Sonic universe. They are only just parallel to each other. Its basically like the Dead Universe being parallel to the Living Universe in TRF. Except the Sonic counterparts are minuscule to the TRF (read my above work).

"Beyond the Sonic Universe" - WHAT???

- There is no crossover creator? Please write your own comics in the fanfiction site. Make Sonic as much powered as you want him to be.

You Quote

"

This is an actual outerversal being it is beyond good and evil and doesnt care if it’s power is used by bad guys like Master Mogul to obtain power to destroy ALL ZONES even the Real world or if it’s used by even background characters to drain Enerjak a mutliversal God above the Mogul who was going to destroy ALL ZONES.

"

"Actual Outerversal being" - Creators are everything .... Outerversal, Omniversal etc. There is no 'Actual' or 'Real' blah blah blah. Why are you rewriting definitions and twisting its every word to suit your obsession to see Sonic win? LOL.

"Beyond Good or Evil" - Creators are neutral, we know!

"Doesn't care if power is used by bad guys ....." - Have to disagree there. TRF Creator made Primus to stop Unicron, TOAA infested Bruce Banner to become Cosmic Immortal Hulk to beat Devil Hulk (evil), Presence made Lucifer Morningstar etc...

"Enerjak a Multiversal God" - Oh you mean this, pretty Multiversal eh? Plus there is no evidence Mogul was going to destroy Zones even?

You Quote:

"

It’s Clear you don’t want to listen for some reason. For a start I can even mention infinite finite universes are equal to one infinite sized universe like the ones in sonic but they have infinite infinite sized universes, then zones in each of them, extra dimensional realms transcending them and alternate timelines in each universe. It’s larger then the average multiverse.

"

"Infinite - finite universes = 1 infinite universe", that is upto Universal physics to determine the answer but it is complex to come to a conclusion. For example in the 1 infinite universe, there is something called dark matter that expands our Universe but if we take multiple finite but infinite in number universes, the rate of growth would exceed compared to just 1. Making that more top tier than the 1 infinite Universe. So we could accept your claim but it would take a high explanation in cosmology to determine an answer, which makes this comment not worthy of reference due to a lack of workable evidence or proof.

"Then zones in them" - Archie Sonic comics constantly refer this to as a galaxy or smaller but in one issue puts this as a Universe. So the range will be a pocket dimension - Universe.

"extra dimensional realms transcending them and alternate timelines in each universe. It’s larger then the average multiverse." - Which we know, but it doesn't make it defer to the average Multiverse (what definition do you take?). Plus in TRF each Cluster has more layers to it than Sonic. Sonic stops at multiverse (with all what you have said). TRF has multiverse+ with the exact same components apart from Zones but replaces them with the Macroverse (Multiverse) and Microverse (Multiverse) which far dwarfs Zones. If we scale this, a multiverse in Sonic would stop at around Microverse - Universe in TRF (being lenient). You just can't seem to accept this?

"It’s Clear you don’t want to listen for some reason" - Your cosmology upto the Sonic multiverse is the only thing that has validity. Above that is all nonsense and trashtalk, with no research on other comic Universe breakdowns.

You Quote

"

Correction he casually destroyed one million mutliverses that are on par with Sonic’s multiverse so your point is moot as it is vastly above complex mutliversal. Your also forgetting he was a threat to all zones including the real world so your point is especially moot.

"

In a Multiverse, there are divisions that section an infinite number of Universes (Zones in Sonic's definition although we don't exactly know the true size of a zone as I have explained before) in a single Multiverse. Just like Marvel's definition of Omniverse, same goes to Sonic. Sonic never changed the rules as to how a Multiverse works. These combinations of Multiverses which are infinite make up the entire multiverse in Sonic. Mogul destroyed 1 million of these sections of the multiverse or 1 million of these alternate Zones, not 1 million of Sonic storylines. Plus for your info, Sonic has 16 franchises, not 1 million which is not even realistic for a Franchise number. So there is only 16 external Multiverses, not an infinite number. And don't say that we should consider an infinite number, even the writers Ian Flynn has not confirmed this.

Multiverse | Sonic News Network | Fandom , Category:Franchises | Mobius Encyclopaedia | Fandom . Read the 2 links which prove your assumption wrong by a milestone.

If we take what you have just said, then how does Turbo Tails fuse with every single self in alternate timelines when 1 million has been already destroyed? If we also take what you say, then there would be 1 million storylines of Sonic in history. MBatz, you have just rewritten history to new heights. My God - as most hollywood films put it. So yeah, Mogul destroyed 1 million zones rather than 1 million multiverses. Sure the scan says 1 million multiverses but you have to level it off to a tiering system. Plus most websites would place this guy as the strongest being in fiction, but he is nowhere even near! Hmmm.... show me one site at least?

You Quote

"

1 extra dimesnional realm is above anything marvel or DC have so whilst I use the world mutliverse it’s not multiversal and they have several extra dimensional realms and even then there are many other mutliverses similar to them. So to put it simply you don’t know what your talking about.

"

Marvel has infinite dimensions (Beyonder has constantly stated this, Molecule man etc) with infinite realities. Eg: Earth 616 , Earth 1610 in every single Universe. A multiverse sections these Universes out which are still infinite in number. The crossroads connect these dimensions to each other. That is a simple sum up of the Marvel multiverse. Multiverse | Marvel Database | Fandom for more information.

"1 extra dimensional realm is above anything marvel or DC" - Is Fallacy. Dimension = Universe. Marvel has infinite dimensions and infinite Universes. Read the above link to fill in the loopholes in your knowledge. You think since it says "1 multiverse" in Marvel that there is only 1. Wrong, that Multiverse is the collection of all multiverses that section the Universes out. Other than that, I can't work out your hideous claim.

"mutliverse it’s not multiversal and they have several extra dimensional realms and even then there are many other mutliverses similar to them." - Rephrase please. So you are saying there isn't a multiverse in Sonic and we should consider it as a Dimensional realm? Read the above links. What the hell are you even talking about?

"So to put it simply you don’t know what your talking about." - Considering the level of garbage that you debate about, I have no clue how you even come to these points. Nowhere in any website does it comment on what you say?

You Quote

"

You had to have read the actual scan it said they were together mutliversal from memory but I’m sure wesat will get the information.

"

The Vok are singulary multiversal. To many sites confirm this. They are the past, present and future connected all at once which is what makes them multiversal as a singular being. You haven't done further research on the Vok. Just Go on TFWiki. Plus the scan actually leaves us on the edge that the Vok are singluarily multiversal. Anyways research more please.

I am not done yet, I'll break down every comment you have mentioned to a fair scale..... So:

Best way to define Archie Sonic is contradiction and inconsistency. Unicron has never shown this. If we take Your words for Archie Sonic, then why do we even need a Sonic comic book? Couldn’t he just beat every single opponent singlehandedly with ease if your explanation is what we consider? Archie Sonic Base form should be city level, from some of Shadow's crazier feats. At his absolute best, his super form is an almost FTL planet buster - Universal - considering inconsistencies. (Multiversal is not correct since he has acclaimed these feats in Sonic Comics, where I have Proved the scale of TRF Universe to Sonic Universe.)

Archie Sonic is Overrated and Highballed to levels I have never seen before. I’d rather take the IDW version who remains Planetary at his strongest forms and has a good plot but still can’t even match Unicron. Archie Sonic due to inconsistency and contradiction is way lower than a lot of people base him on. The Fanboys nitpick feats from older comics and display them but cover over the contradictory, new pointers from newer comic releases.

Always learn to debunk both characters without only doing one.

Archie Sonic is amped up by external powers aka Emeralds, Chaos Force, 1 Billionth Aura ring. I would just simply still put Unicron against him who will stomp with ease, but just for fun reasons, I’ll give him the 13 Ores, Megatronous Prime (fallen) and D void and Galvatron, just to enjoy the Mega stomp and Sonic fans crying about.

Since you don’t debunk Sonic, i’ll let the link do it for you:

Archie Sonic is not multiversal, holy shit. : CharacterRant (reddit.com)

Archie Sonic is not multiversal, holy shit. : CharacterRant (reddit.com)

Ouch.

5th Time...... Logic has left the building!

Peace Out

Vidi15King

Avatar image for vidi15king
Vidi15king

620

Forum Posts

18

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 0

#38  Edited By Vidi15king

@vidi15king:

I had a lot of information and facts backed by websites breaking down and debunking your points but they have disappeared for some reason.

Maybe its your luck Dunno? Life is a mystery!

Avatar image for deactivated-60ee0713dd622
deactivated-60ee0713dd622

6337

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 1

Unicron in a huge mismatch.

Avatar image for vidi15king
Vidi15king

620

Forum Posts

18

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 0

@darthsuper:

I mean yeah thats true. We can't avoid the fact Archie Sonic is the king of contradiction and inconsistency. Many fans just take outlier feats out of context and toss away the weaker, more consistent feats and say they are irrelevant, which leads to contradiction and bad plot display.

If you have read this thread, you see what I mean.

Avatar image for deactivated-634f7f0602b47
deactivated-634f7f0602b47

1214

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 0

unicron solos the verse

Avatar image for lazerbeak
lazerbeak

6024

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 0

#42  Edited By lazerbeak

^

Avatar image for infinitysquid
Infinitysquid

530

Forum Posts

6

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 2

Unicron wins but sonic is the better character

Avatar image for infinitysquid
Infinitysquid

530

Forum Posts

6

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 2

Actually...

Wasnt achive sonic able to control the plot and achieve omnipresence? If he did, then he stomps

Avatar image for lazerbeak
lazerbeak

6024

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 0

Unicron wins but sonic is the better character

The Unicron wank is insane here and on Quora. Apparently he’s Outerveral yet his best feat was destroying 22% of the multiverse (not infinite) in like millions of years. Unicron wins but damn people need to stop wanking transformers. (Infinity Ultron solos the verse besides Unicron)

Avatar image for superdarth
SuperDarth

4256

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 0

@infinitysquid said:

Unicron wins but sonic is the better character

The Unicron wank is insane here and on Quora. Apparently he’s Outerveral yet his best feat was destroying 22% of the multiverse (not infinite) in like millions of years. Unicron wins but damn people need to stop wanking transformers. (Infinity Ultron solos the verse besides Unicron)

Archie Sonic wank is much higher lmao.

Avatar image for lazerbeak
lazerbeak

6024

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 0

@lazerbeak said:
@infinitysquid said:

Unicron wins but sonic is the better character

The Unicron wank is insane here and on Quora. Apparently he’s Outerveral yet his best feat was destroying 22% of the multiverse (not infinite) in like millions of years. Unicron wins but damn people need to stop wanking transformers. (Infinity Ultron solos the verse besides Unicron)

Archie Sonic wank is much higher lmao.

Sure

Avatar image for futureisbest
Futureisbest

2723

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 0

dafuq did I read?

Avatar image for mahfire
Mahfire

2027

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 0

dafuq did I read?

Robot Lucifer vs Wank the Hedgehog?

Avatar image for mr-yes
mr-yes

5024

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 0

#50  Edited By mr-yes

Unicron destroys him without trying