Archie Sonic vs Wally West Flash

@thorwins1875: W

@thorwins1875: Exactly. Trying to make excuses for sonic losing and not being powerful is dumb

@trueblieee: yeah pretty telling isnt it.

@superprimetime: he’s in denial. Good posts man

Probably Wally, he has a ridiculous amount of hax and is arguably faster.

@trueblieee: I’m not in denial, I’ve actual read the comics. Literally every single feat from Sonic is mid tier. Just to prove it in another thread with Sonic vs Godzilla, I used a random number generator, to give me any random issue of Sonic, to pull feats from. I knew with 100% certainty the feats would all be mid tier, because he’s a mid tier character. Every issue I got, was filled with mid tier feats. You can do this with every issue.

https://comicvine.gamespot.com/forums/battles-7/archie-sonic-vs-idw-godzilla-2261900/

@superprimetime: That clearly isn’t showing Sonic’s power as universal. Sonic didn’t use his own power to reboot the comic.

Let’s just assume he did have this power. How come he has never come within trillions of times using power of this level, in a battle? How come every single one of his combat feats are mid tier? Are you suggesting Sonic is the most incompetent character of all time, since he has this massive amount of power, but is only capable of using mid tier abilities in battles? I think that’s an incredibly stupid way to view Sonic, and ruins his character. Instead, I think Sonic is incredibly competent with his mid tier abilities, just like he’s consistently portrayed throughout the entire series.

Scaling is really dumb too, specially with a character who has literally thousands of feats that stand on their own. You’re choosing to ignore literally thousands of feats, and are just going to base everything off of awkward scaling, that doesn’t have any feats in the fights they’ve had, that are above mid tier.

Sonic wank needs to finally die. The wank that has just been accepted is so blatantly wrong. It makes Sonic fans look even more strange then they already do, because of this strange power fantasy they have with this fictional hedgehog, and the desire to see him godlike, when he’s really just a mid tier character.

@tparks: I'm conflicted on where to place Super Sonic but you're right about base Sonic being a mid tier. I've read a fair share of Archie Sonic ever since childhood. I never even understood why people place Super Sonic as some complex multiversal being. The best thing I know is him and Hyper Knuckles destroying a pocket zone and retconning his universe with chaos control a couple times. Nothing I remember being multiversal.

@superprimetime: W dude and thank you. I’m not a wanker, I just agree with what you say and that Archie sonic wins. Great posts

@takenstew22: read more, he has feats putting him multiversal

@superprimetime:

@thorwins1875: this dude don’t miss

@trueblieee: the steph curry of sonic debating.

@thorwins1875: @trueblieee: @superprimetime: So ic didn’t rewrite reality with his power, or Super Sonic power. The Genesis Wave did it. You’re comparing him to Thanos and the Infinity Gauntlet, when this is more like comparing someone flipping on a light switch. I can’t create light, but I can flip a switch to do it. Sonic can’t rewrite reality. Reality was being rewritten already. He was even rewritten, and had basically no control over it.

Your second point is down right stupid, and your fangirls look even worst for celebrating it. You’re actively saying that it’s better to ignore feats, and use scaling from events, where nothing but mid tier feats happened? Wow. Comicvine has gotten idiotic.

Like I said before, I can take any random issue of Sonic, and every single one will have Sonic performing nothing but mid tier or lower feats. How is he not mid tier? Just because some of his stories have cosmic things happening around him, doesn’t make him a cosmic character. This is such disingenuous debating.

Honestly, there is like a hundred debunk threads for Archie Sonic, because people would actually like to use him in battles. He is an awesome mid tier character for battles, but we have to do this BS, where we ignore his thousands of feats, since wankers want to have this strange power fantasy of making him universal. He’s barely even building level.

This is what everyone who actually reads the comics realizes.

You have to ignore literally thousands of feats, and then twist the context of some of the events around Sonic, to make him appear as the power levels the wankers claim he is.

@tparks: you good dude? I feel like you can do debunks for literally any character. Also if we were wankers for using Archie’s best feats what does that make you for saying he’s barely even building level?

@trueblieee: You’re not using any of his feats. Some of his best feats are building level.

This isn’t a case of inconsistency where I’m ignoring high ends. Sonic is very consistent at mid tier, across literally thousands of feats. The obvious wanked feats are just twisted context, that anyone who read the comics just rolls their eyes at. I’m not an eye roller. I just call out the BS, and it’s very easy to do, since like I’ve said several times now, I have literally thousands of feats worth of mid tier Sonic, compared to arguments where Sonic doesn’t actually do anything, but is still being called universal, just because stuff happening around him is powerful.

Don’t get me wrong, Flash is wanked too, but I haven’t read every Flash comic, like I have with Sonic.

@tparks: “doubt”

@trueblieee: What?

Sonic too fast, too versatile. Both are beyond MFTL but Sonic takes it to another level.

@tparks: okay dude. Sorry

@trueblieee: I see you edited your comment, to be more mature, so I’ll delete my response.

@trueblieee: I deleted my comment, after you edited yours, but it was just a direct response to your passive aggressiveness. If you get insulted easily, don’t be insulting yourself.

Don’t try to take the high road, when you’re starting from the pits.

EDIT: I see you’ve deleted other comments now as well, so I will do the same.

@trueblieee: No. I was just replying to you, just like I would anyone IRL. If you’re going to give high fives, and say I’m “in denial”, without even tagging me, and then continue with even more passive aggressiveness, I’m going to respond just like I did, every time.

That’s not passive aggressive, it’s active aggressive (well not really, but you get the point). If you want to come at me aggressively, and you know, maybe leave an actual argument, I’d actually respect you for it.

@tparks: 😁 same to you. Have a nice day

@trueblieee: You too. Thanks for being cool, even if it was after we both had a pissing contest. Lol

@superprimetime: So posting scans that don’t show Sonic rewriting reality, is your evidence? Dude…

Remember, I’ve actually read these. The power, that was rewriting reality as is, with or without Sonic, was not of Sonic’s creation. Sonic and Mega Man were able to alter its course, but it’s not like they had the power to actually do this on their own. Sonic, was completely at the mercy of this power. Why would he choose to change himself, his world, and all of his friends, to become beings they weren’t before, if he actually had the power to do this on his own? Why do you believe Sonic is so incompetent? If he has this power, why does he never use it, and why when he does (which he doesn’t), he completely sucks at it? Is that your take on Sonic? That he’s a complete and utter incompetent piece of garbage? Why, when Sonic’s friend’s lives have been at stake, countless times, did he not use this massive power? Why does he instead ALWAYS use mid tier feats? Why do you hate Sonic so much, to believe he is this incompetent?

Or maybe he is competent, but is competent as a mid tier, and that’s why he has thousands of mid tier feats? Nah. That’s crazy, right? Sonic’s an incompetent piece of garbage, with universal power, who just chooses to never use it, because he is the dumbest being in all of fiction. That makes a lot more sense.

Like I said, it’s like saying I can manifest light as a super power, because I can flip a light switch.

So are you being disingenuous, or ignorant?

How about show a single instance of Sonic being this universal character. The reboot 100% isn’t, and anyone who has actually read it, knows this to be true. So how about him actually using this universal power?

You’re comparing him to Superman, which is a terrible comparison. If Superman were to save a bank, it would be barely an inconvenience for him. When Sonic has knocked over a building, it was the result of him being Super Sonic, clashing with a Kaiju of pure chaos. That’s the epitome of his power on display, and it knocked over a building. It wasn’t some small casual feat, but him and an enemy hitting with, what amounts to them, massive amounts of power.

Superman knocking over a building, would be a casual thing.

So I’m going to stand by Sonic’s thousands of feats, that all show him as mid tier. Not a casual mid tier, but him pushing his abilities, makes him mid tier.

So again, are you being disingenuous or ignorant?

@superprimetime: Again, you showed the same scans, that 100% do not show Sonic’s power as rewriting reality. He didn’t have the power to do that, and never has. If he did, you know, he would do it, instead of only when it’s ALREADY being done, by forces that aren’t his power.

So it’s disingenuous for you then. Got it.

I would say this would be close if it was base sonic vs wally. They’re both similar when it comes to stats and powers ranging from 5/6D. But when sonic goes super sonic the scales tip in his favor. Archie sonic can placed at 11D thanks to his feat of warping the multiverse. Ultra sonic is stronger and gives him more abilities. So I’d say super sonic and ultra sonic are enough to give Archie sonic the win. Base vs Base could go either way but Sonic’s super forms should give him the needed edge.

@superprimetime: Dude, you caught yourself with those scans. It clearly shows that they weren’t the ones providing power for this. You made your bed.

This is what happens when you wank.

Now, you’ve lost all credibility, as you’ve been shown to have no problem clearly twisting context for your strange Sonic power fantasy. There’s no reason to ever believe a word you say again.

Even if you provide a decent argument for once, it’s just going to come from “the guy who twists context to wank Sonic”. Why would anyone ever believe anything you say now? I didn’t even have to debate you. You did this all on your own, which is what happens every time I’ve been in a debate with a Sonic wanker. They keep saying obvious wank, until they finally try to post “evidence” and every time it just proves they’re twisting context. Sonic wankers are, by far, the easiest wankers to make do this.

This should be a lesson of why not to wank.

@superprimetime: Again, more scans showing that it’s 100% not their power. They’re just altering the power that’s ALREADY there. Keep it up. When you’ve dug yourself into a hole, you should really stop digging. How deep can you bury yourself?

Again. I can’t create light, or electricity, but I can flip a switch that alters the electricity that’s already there. Apparently I can “scale to that”. So by your logic, I’m basically Electro. Didn’t realize I had super powers.

This is another lesson, on why BS scaling is BS, and twisted context is twisted.

By all means though, keep poking more holes in your own argument. I love when someone loses their argument all on their own. It makes it really easy for me.

@superprimetime: @tparks: why don’t we agree to disagree?