Archetype Arcueid Brunestud Takes On Composite Gilgamesh, Enkidu, Kiara Sessyoin, BB, Amaterasu, Saver, Mara, and Tiamat

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Kanesada_Kuji

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#1  Edited By Kanesada_Kuji
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Arcueid awakens from her slumber and sees that all of these beings are causing too much harm to the Earth, and decides to wipe them all out in one fell swoop. Can the combined might of the strongest beings in existence repel the strongest being in all of TYPE MOON?

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DevoidRuby

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Gets blinked by feats.

Wins by implication and hierarchy.

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zgtfreak

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#3  Edited By zgtfreak

Arcueid stomps horribly. The only one who is even capable of damaging her is Gilgamesh, and he is still fodder to her and would die extremely quickly. His only way to damage her is with Ea and Slash Emperor; but he's going to die immediately before he can even hope to pull them out. And let's not even get started with him actually hitting her with those two weapons. (Newsflash, it isn't happening.) The god-tiers of CCC were repeatedly compared to base Arcueid. Gilgamesh can't even instill the concept of death in her because she is immune to such things after surviving Black Barrels. Nasu himself even stated that Arcueid is the strongest. This is how the fight will go:

Arcueid immediately rushes Gilgamesh because not only is he the only one who can damage her, but she hates him. She proceeds to smack him around with mana blast while casually strolling through everyone else's attacks. She then proceeds to kill him.

Enkidu gets enraged at Gilgamesh's death and tries to bind Arcueid; but Arcueid casually dodges and obliterates him beyond regeneration.

The fight is literally over at this point. The two strongest contenders are dead.

Afterwards, Arcueid demonstrates her power as a TYPE to the remaining measly Divine Spirits and Beasts. She wipes them from existence casually.

And in the end, she plays pinball with BB before killing her due to BB being a fake wannabe Type.

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Kanesada_Kuji

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DevoidRuby

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@kanesada_kuji: Not really. Ado Edem’s prowess comes from being able to deal with giant monsters, not smaller and much faster targets.

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Kanesada_Kuji

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zgtfreak

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Kanesada_Kuji

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Wanderez

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WOG? Yay, or nay?

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zgtfreak

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Wanderez

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@zgtfreak: Wasnt Arcueid stated to be more powerful than the whole list here?

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ovy7

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#12  Edited By ovy7

Damn, some of those designs are very ecchi ( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)

Anyway, I barely know any of the characters, sorry.

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zgtfreak

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#13  Edited By zgtfreak

@wanderez: Pretty much. In more ways than one actually. Amaterasu, CCC Gilgamesh, and Moon Cell BB where all compared to base Arcueid that was restricted via being a servant. Nasu also specifically stated that she was the strongest in the verse (ignoring Akasha/Void Shiki).

Fate has no business challenging Tsukihime. It is a stronger series.

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DevoidRuby

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@zgtfreak: I wouldn’t say Fate has no business challenging it. Outside of Arcueid and I suppose Prime Zelretch (which is iffy) and the Crimson Moon, Tsukihime is in general vastly weaker than Fate is.

And depending how Nasu decides to spin the Alien God in FGO, we could end up with some TYPE tier characters originating from Fate.

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zgtfreak

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@devoidruby: I wouldn’t say Fate has no business challenging it. Outside of Arcueid and I suppose Prime Zelretch (which is iffy) and the Crimson Moon, Tsukihime is in general vastly weaker than Fate is.

Can't agree. Dead Apostles like Roa and Nero are stated to be Servant level, but with far better hax. Ciel (presumably without the Seventh Holy Scripture) is stated to be able to fight defensively against Servants. Aoko was stated to be able to fight Servants, then rectonned later to be able to fight Arcueid (not Archetype Earth Arcueid though). Kishima Touma is stated to be able to fight Servants. Shiki Tohno's power level was rectonned openly by Nasu (he even admits this) in Melty Blood to where he bodies Ciel once his limiters were raised:

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This was Shiki not even using his Mystic Eyed of Depth Perception, which would've one shotted Ciel.

Also, the Tsukihime manga supports Tohno's power recton since he is comparable to Roa, who is easily Servant level. And Shiki was half dead when he defeated Roa:

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And Tohno is complete fodder to his Nanaya personality (who Nasu never stated wasn't Servant level by the way). Nanaya without his Mystic Eyes stalemated Kishima with his raw physical ability:

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Nanaya while extremely injured (was damaged as Tohno before his Nanaya personality came out) fodderized Nrvnqsr Chaos, who is Servant level:

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Akiha also fought Ciel (who is Servant level) and was stated to be able to kill Ciel if she actually wanted to:

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So everyone mentioned here is Servant level or higher. And of course we have Arcueid herself, Zelretch, and TYPE-MOON himself.

So yeah, Tsukihime is out if Fate's league in my opinion.

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@zgtfreak: assuming we ignore the servants themselves of course. I still think it’s fair enough to point out Fate’s numerous servant level fighters.

It’s questionable if Roa for example is Servant level given an Alive, inexperienced Edmond Dantes was capable of permenantely Killing him in his CD drama. Though I suppose one could attribute that to the Human Order weakening Roa perhaps?

Prime Zouken was stated to be capable of defeating a servant on his own, Nasu doesn’t even hint at things outside of good conditions unlike Kerry and Kirei who need incredibly Specific Conditions to do so.

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Prime Kirei is also stated as being able to pull wins against Ciel, which should inturn raise Avalon Kiritsugu to that level aswell or Atleast to a comparable league. Bazett should also be Atleast comparable to prime Kirei as per Nasu stating shes FSN Kirei’s superior in strength but infe to Prime Kirei.

Nasu: Ciel is overwhelmingly strong, due to her circuits, constitution and immortality. The strength of Kotomine at the time of Zero was due to his abnormally large number of Command Spells and his tenacity towards Kiritsugu. It was truly the brightest moment of his life. The Kotomine at that time could even win against Ciel.

So while they aren’t servant level outright they’re Still capable of putting up decent fights and even winning against Ciel level opponents.

According to Watcher in Strange Fake aswell, Sigma is supposedly capable of defeating Richard the Lionheart in a 1 vs 1 duel, though that may be due to Sigma becoming True Lancer. So it’s up to you if you want to count him in the pool.

Quite frankly if we do I’d rank Richard above pretty much anyone of the Tsukihime ‘humans‘ brought to the table given his absurd power And skills so Sigma has the potential to be insanely strong.

You also have a Dead Apostle like Jester with multiple hearts and the priest who’s able to hold his own against him who have some insane feats like kicking sofas three stories up and other stuff which is addressed quite well in this respect thread.

There’s also Requiem to consider which has Anti-Servant hunters like Erice. Along with her Grandmother who has been noted to have been trained by her Servant, Longinus. So I think it’s fair enough to put the two of them in the ‘Can hold their own against servants and even take wins’ category.

There’s also 3 other character who deserve a mention as well. Those being Rin, Shirou and Sakura of course.

Rin of course with her mana filled super gems is capable of killing Heracles. Something I don’t think any character apart from the obvious 3 from the Tsukihime side outside of perhaps Aoko could do.

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Granted this is something Rin obviously can’t perform anytime. But if we assumed prime versions it’s atleast worth mentioning.

Sakura as the Dark Grail I think we can both agree is a good bit beyond a good chunk of Tsukihime‘s paygrade. Given her shadows are to quote Nasu ‘impervious to conventional attacks’ along with her regeneration abilites and consumption.

Shirou is also an odd one. He can obviously trace Servant weapons to boost up to those levels and depending on the version can go from being fodder to stomping pretty much anyone you named.

Grante the latter version of from Prisma Illya so Once again it simply comes down to if you want to count him or not as a thing.

We know otherwise that Shirou is Atleast able to draw with Tohno Shiki (even if I disagree with Tohno being able to take Shirou) and the versatility he gets from Tracing is something to be afraid of.

I do agree that Tsukihime‘s low tiers? I suppose? Are superior to Fate’s lower tiers and the same is true with its higher tier being superior to Fates (for now Atleast) but Fate has the advantage of Servants and Gods buffing their middle ground massively.

So while it’s fair to say Tsukihime has quality, I would say Fate has quantity.

Now I just wish Nasu would finish that Tsukihime remake so we could see what sort of buffs he’d give to everyone.

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zgtfreak

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@devoidruby: I'll reply to this when I wake up. I like this though. It's rare for me to run into a real fellow Nasuverse expert. So this should be fun.

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DevoidRuby

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@zgtfreak: Alright dude! I’ll be looking forward too it!

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zgtfreak

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#19  Edited By zgtfreak

@devoidruby: It’s questionable if Roa for example is Servant level given an Alive, inexperienced Edmond Dantes was capable of permenantely Killing him in his CD drama. Though I suppose one could attribute that to the Human Order weakening Roa perhaps?

That and the fact that Roa's vessel in Tsukihime is an extremely powerful demon child that he took almost 2 decades hollow out and control, which automatically makes him far superior in Tsukihime due to his vessel alone. It's more of a true vessel for him. Hell, Roa in the past defeated Altrouge Brunestud, who is a hybrid between a Dead Apostle and a True Ancestor. If we assume that Roa is still at this level when he fought Shiki Tohno, then both are far far above Servants. And Nanaya would be beyond even those 2 by an extremely high amount. Roa logically should be just as powerful as his prime, as he completed his vessel's transformation to the point it became Roa's original body. So Tohno was honestly fighting a True Ancestor level being and won while half dead. Though it did seem as though Tohno was semi-tapping into his Nanaya personality, but not fully; as I don't think normal Tohno is True Ancestor level at all. But Nanaya when fully emerged should still be quit significantly above a semi-tapped into Nanaya instincts Tohno. The Roa you are speaking of is a random human vessel that he didn't even have time to even remotely convert into his real body. So Tsukihime Roa, Shiki Tohno while semi-tapping into his Nanaya side, and Shiki Nanaya himself are all True Ancestor level to some degree. Nanaya physically is not True Ancestor Level, but he is via MEoDP ignoring him needing to be physically strong. This is backed up by both Nanaya and semi-tapped into Nanaya Tohno effortlessly dispatching normal Dead Apostles and Dead Apostle level beings.

Here we have Vampire Sion taking on the high level Dead Apostle (Servant level), Wallachia:

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Here is Tohno stomping Vampire Sion in just 2 panels after semi-tapping into his Nanaya personality for a brief moment:

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Prime Zouken was stated to be capable of defeating a servant on his own, Nasu doesn’t even hint at things outside of good conditions unlike Kerry and Kirei who need incredibly Specific Conditions to do so.

No one in Tsukihime aside from non-Seventh Holy Scripture Ciel have been stated to be able to defensively fight a Servant. Everyone else was just stated to be able to take them on period, without having to be defensive. Also I honestly would say Zero Kirei can take on Servants in general since he was stated to be above Ciel. It seems like it rectons him only being able to take on Assassin's. He was keeping pace and deflecting blows from True Assassin while out of his prime in HF; and True Assassin had high stats for an Assassin. Since Zero Kirei is significantly above FSN Kirei if we count his highest prime in the Kerry fight with command seal amps, I honestly would say prime Zero Kirei can indeed fight Servants; and Kerry scales to him.

Seventh Holy Scripture Ciel should be beyond defensive Servant level though, as she defeated Tatari Nrvnqsr in Melty Blood:

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So in the end we have:

Base Ciel: Defensive Servant Level.

Nrvnqsr: Servant Level.

Melty Blood Shiki Tohno: Servant Level.

Seventh Holy Scripture Ciel: Servant Level.

Sion Eltnam Atlasia: Servant Level.

Vampire Sion Eltnam Atlasia: Servant Level.

Wallachia: Servant Level.

Akiha Tohno: Servant Level.

Kishima Touma: Servant Level.

Altrouge Brunestud: True Ancestor Level.

Michael Roa Valdamjong: True Ancestor Level.

Shiki Tohno while semi-tapping in to his Nanaya instincts: True Ancestor Level.

Aoko Aozaki: True Ancestor Level.

Shiki Nanaya: True Ancestor Level.

Base Tsukihime Arcueid Brunestud: True Ancestor Level.

Base Fate/Extra Arcueid Brunestud: Beyond Moon Cell Level/CCC Gilgamesh and Amaterasu level.

Archetype Earth Arcueid Brunestud: Ultimate One Level/beyond all of the Nasuverse, aside from Akasha.

This is a pretty stacked list Fate has no business messing with.

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zgtfreak

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@devoidruby: I honestly forgot about Roa defeating a True Ancestor. That's why I only brought it up now.

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DevoidRuby

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@zgtfreak: I do agree with pretty much everything you said. I’ve suppose since I’ve been mainly stuck in sites where the mentality of Fate being super duper OP and Tsukihime/Melty Blood characters never actually being used really ended up causing me to underestimate them in the end.

I suppose if I had to try and bring about the best roster I can to oppose that stacked roster it would be something like.

Bazett Fraga McRemitz: Can kill Servants

Rin Tohsaka (4 Gems): Can kill Servants

Emiya Shirou (FSN): Servant Level

Emiya Kiritsugu (Avalon): Servant Level

Prime Kotomine Kirei: Servant Level

Erice Utsumi: Servant Level

Prime Zouken: Servant level

Koharu F Riedenflaus (Fused): Servant Level

Jester: Servant Level

Hansa Cervantes: Servant Level

Sakura Matou: True Ancestor Level (Possibly Beyond)

Sigma: Beyond True Ancestor Level (Potentially)

Manaka Saijou: Beyond True Ancestor Level

Surtr: Massively Beyond True Ancestor Level

Final Form Sephyr: Comparable to Amaterasu

Amaterasu: Comparable to Base Arcueid

Alien God: Potentially Ultimate One level

I do honestly think outside of Arcueid and possibly Prime Zelretch, nobody in the Tsukihime side could even defeat Manaka and those above her.

I am going to hope the Alien God lives up to the hype it’s gottne in FGO. Since it’s been hinted at multiple times to be ‘The God of a Distant Star’ and it being able to completely wipe away the texture of the planet along with all forms of resistance to its rule in a matter of months.

If you wanna continue with this hit me up in PMs, since I think mods are gonna get annoyed with us talking about ‘unrelated’ things to the overall thread.

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Kanesada_Kuji

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#22  Edited By Kanesada_Kuji

@zgtfreak: @devoidruby: I tend to consider Tsukihime and Fate as uncomparable if we are comparing them in a series VS series manner. Fate has too many characters, as opposed to Tsukihime's diverse but smaller cast. The difference in how many characters there are doesn't make them comparable in my eyes. They used to be comparable due to having a similar cast size, until Grand Order started shitting out garbage waifus everyday for money.

Technically, the strongest series is Notes, as it has multiple Ultimate Ones, Ado Edem, ect. Granted, all of the Ultimate Ones should be much weaker than Arcueid alone. But as an entire series VS series comparison, Notes is the strongest in the Nasuverse.

If we compare which series is stronger by which one contains the strongest characters, then Kara no Kyoukai is the strongest due to Void Shiki, then Tsukihime due to Arcueid, and then Notes.

Also, as the OP, I will allow a bit of derailing. I don't care. As long as it is productive. This thread will die quickly anyways after you two are done.

@ovy7 said:

Damn, some of those designs are very ecchi ( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)

Anyway, I barely know any of the characters, sorry.

Oh? I could've swore I saw you debating in a Fate thread once. I assumed you knew of Tsukihime as well. Sorry about that.

Last attempt at getting anyone else's opinion on this thread. @ecoblitz

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GaRbS

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#24  Edited By GaRbS

Archetype: Earth has no answer to Kiara or Mara's ero powers.

Gilgamesh and Enkidu do nothing.

Tiamat and Archetype: Earth cannot kill each other. Both of them lack the concept of death.

BB could actually defeat her with Cursed Cutting Crater.

Buddha cannot transmigrate her due to her not being human, as well as the scale of her existence being greater than the domain of humanity. But his Enlightenment of the Sacred Fig Skill makes it so that he cannot be harmed by physical attacks, conceptual attacks and inter-dimensional attacks by an amount equivalent to his own HP, as well as shutting out mental interference by 100%. So essentially they cannot defeat each other.

The hype of Amaterasu's power is higher than that of Arc's. An amount of energy on the level of the sun, superior to 7th stage Sefar, casual time travel from the modern era to the Age of Gods, showing how the time axis has no bearing to her, being an Evil of Man and a Beast candidate, nine-tailed Tamamo being on the same level as Goetia and capable of defeating a hundred heroes. And her EX rank NP being an anti-world, nation-building great Authority that can resurrect the dead and give her infinite magical energy.

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zgtfreak

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#25  Edited By zgtfreak

@garbs: Archetype: Earth has no answer to Kiara or Mara's ero powers.

She casually can just one shot them. Nasu's statements and her status as a Type puts her above everyone in Fate by default:

Q: In Nasu's work (Kara no Kyoukai, Tsukihime, Fate, DDD) Who's the top three strongest characters?

A: Magical Amber, Neco Arc, and Tiger. Well, not really.

Seriously, it's Arcueid, "Ryougi Shiki", and primordial demons.(Not counting Servants)

https://typemoon.fandom.com/wiki/Arcueid_Brunestud#References

Amaterasu, Moon Cell BB, and CCC Gilgamesh are all compared in some way to restricted base Arcueid/not Archetype Earth when she is using her 1/6 reduction ability:

if Berserker regained her sanity she would easily be considered a cheat-tier Servant. Her power, “The stage is the Moon, so all targets have their power reduced to a sixth of their usual.” would be extremely useful against other similar cheat-tier Servants.

It’s a conceptual numerical alteration, so it is unavoidable when on the Moon. Even the Moon Cell transformed version of BB would be limited by it.

In EXTRA and CCC, she is about the only one who is “Capable of defeating Konjiki Hakumen (Golden White Face), no matter how small the chance might be.”

https://typemoon.fandom.com/wiki/Berserker_(Fate/Extra_Rani_route)#References

She is compared to CCC Gilgamesh by being called a cheat-tier Servant; a title only Gilgamesh originally had. She is thus being compared to Moon Cell BB. Restricted base Arcueid then is stated to have a small chance against Amaterasu. Now imagine a non-Servant Arcueid that isn't being restricted. Or worse... imagine Archetype Earth. Anyone knowledgeable about the Nasuverse will tell you that these measly Divine Spirits and Gilgamesh are below Types by default. Arcueid's raw power goes beyond Saver' ability limits. Moon Cell BB couldn't even defeat CCC Gilgamesh, so how is she touching Arcueid? Tiamat has no concept of death, but Arcueid should be able to fight other Types and is confirmed to be above Type-Moon, who has no concept of death like any other Type.

At the end of the day, Arcueid is literally the strongest in the verse. Even ORT can't defeat Arcueid due to her Gaia amp. All he has going for him is a superior reality marble. Yet he's the best contender by far. Better than anyone in Fate, that's for sure. Fate is overhyped as hell.

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GaRbS

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zgtfreak

Arcueid is not a Type, the Earth was incapable of creating a mirror image of itself. And Archetype: Earth would instantly lose just by seeing or being seen by Kiara. Defeating either Kiara or Mara is not a matter of power, but about being able to counter or resist their ero powers, which Arc cannot do. Why Roastbeef Strawberry refers to her as "Ultimate One", and that being the name of one of her Skills is unexplained. She might be the closest thing Earth has to one, but she ain't one.

The fact that Types have no concept of death and Arc can fight them still doesn't change the fact she cannot kill either them or Tiamat.

And thinking about it, Archetype: Earth does indeed stomp BB, I only mentioned that CCC would be able to hurt her, to what degree tho, is unknown.

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zgtfreak

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#27  Edited By zgtfreak

Arcueid is not a Type, the Earth was incapable of creating a mirror image of itself.

It's literally in her name: Archetype Earth. She is literally stated to be the Crimson Moon version of Arcueid to some extent (Crimson Moon is Type-Moon) and his daughter. Her skill, The Ultimate One just further backs this up. She may not be a conventional Type, but she is still a Type.

Defeating either Kiara or Mara is not a matter of power, but about being able to counter or resist their ero powers, which Arc cannot do.

Are you referring to Kiara's Ten Thousand Colored Stagnation ability? Archetype Earth would not find Kiara beautiful at all. She would literally view Kiara as a bug that need to be squashed. As for Mara's Ten Thousand Forms of Avarice, it is an authority based ability. Archetype Earth eclipses her authority entirely. Base Arcueid's authority eclipsed the Moon Cell's even, let alone Archetype Earth against Mara. Hell, Archetype Earth probably doesn't even have any lustful desires.

The fact that Types have no concept of death and Arc can fight them still doesn't change the fact she cannot kill either them or Tiamat.

She may be able to; we don't know. I personally assume she can. If she can't, she smacks around Tiamat until she gets bored.

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Syncroniam

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Arcueid is too sexy even for the most powerful servants, if they can withstand that sexiness they can find ways to defeat her, especially with that team.

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Guzmania

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@devoidruby: Who’s that Alien God dude you’re referring to ?

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DevoidRuby

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#30  Edited By DevoidRuby

@guzmania: The Alien God is the current main antagonist of Fate/Grand Order, and it’s been hyped up pretty massively so far.

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