Suggsverse characters aren't really beyond omnipotence considering how they always get hurt or even killed somehow in the stories
@debunkdude: no they cannot be killed by normal means. This can be proven through the descending ladder of nothingness even complete Annihilation at a conceptual level would not even tickle them.
An omnipotent being could affect anyone they want even if the entity is beyond cause and effect.
Omnipotent entities can feel emotions if they choose to after all they can do anything even if it's a illogical.
if an omnipotent enity wanted to can make themselves more powerful and surpass their own power.
Again you say that omnipotence is boundless in Limitless but you are now ironically creating limits to what they can or can't do.
@SergeantMuscle: I am not creating limits.I am defining true unconscious boundlessness.Also it makes the most sense for omnipotents to go featless and unconscious rather than have them disprove omnipotence by interaction like choushin suggverse etc.Listen we can ignore the word omnipotent for suggverse since it is featless.Many characters have been stated as omnipotent by the narrative while still showing limitations.For example when meng hao transcended he was called omnipotent by the narrative but we know that he isnt.Same is true for suggverse guys.Also meng is someone that fodderises suggverse.And dont ignore my claims about platonic concepts,which are non existent in suggverse.
@debunkdude: platonic concept do exist they just become irrelevant by the third floor as all concepts breakdown leaving in the state that cannot be described.
Okay let's ignore omnipotence for now. Lamont still stands for above her he literally is the living embodiment of the entire SV. Inverted World basically turns all her abilities against her and since Lamont comes to a verse with a waaaay larger cosmology it would be a No Limit fallacy to assume she can just jump on top of his hierarchy. Especially Since concept literally break down when they reach his final form and her ability is basically just manipulating this. And she has no knowledge and therefore no way to manipulate spade logic or suggslogic. As well as having absolutely no answer to the anti omnipotence equation.
@SergeantMuscle: Her ability is not conceptual manipulation.She is A Non Linear character,for whom cosmologies dont matter.Platonic Concepts cannot break.Think about it.No matter what you do you cannot change the concept of death from death to pizza.If You Die you cease to exist.You dont become pizza from dieing.Anti Omnipotence Equation is BS.I Can say Meng Hao creates the essence of Anti Anti Omnipotence equation and that would absolutely be within what the narrative puts meng hao at.You may want to check etriel's dynamic tiering system so as to know what kind of logic I am using here since you seem reasonable enough.
@debunkdude: cosmology doesn't matter ?! a character's entire universe consists of one planet and he should be stronger than a character who can destroy thousands upon thousands of infinite universes simply because they have deep conceptual manipulation of a single planet?
Also these characters cannot die physical death spiritual death and even conceptual death means nothing to them. This is thanks to descending ladder of nothingness one could only access after acquiring Spades logic.
Physical death- pretty self explanatory.
Spiritual death - destruction of a person Soul or consciousness
Nonexistence (Absolute Nothingness):
Nonexistence is that which is unlimited / immeasurable / absolute in presence. It is the complete absolute simplicity and perfection of itself. Nonexistence is invincible of itself and in itself as it is the erasure of all opposition. It is fundamentally a subtractive authority. As such, it will not produce any result that can be considered a Creation. It may amend, correct, reestablish, or change, but never create.
Nonexistence is a dedicated variation of Omnipotence, possessing the same unlimited presence, but focusing all of its presence in the pure and simple annihilation of any target, making it completely nonexistent, or rather, itself. Nonexistence is simplicity and perfection, standing completely invincible through the elimination of all resistance, exceeding even narrative authority.
On the smallest notion, Nonexistence is the negation of conceptual models and subjective ideas, unbounded by the laws of reality – principle. It is the negation of events of all things of existence. It is the negation of presence and perception. It is the negation of metaphysical contact. It is the negation of any target and any scale. It is a perfect Singularity – inimitable, as there is only 'nothing' to replicate. Nonexistence is a truth of its own – a narrative causality of its own.
That in which existence may not enter, or rather, existence cannot be... ever. Protosaṃkhyāṅkabindu prevents energy from ever being conceived, despite its pataphysical nature and principle. Eternity comes to an end here, or rather, it can never be. All theories of dimension cannot exist, as all lineages of narrative causality cannot enter possibility or totality, only remaining in Protosaṃkhyāṅkabindu.
Protosaṃkhyāṅkabindu is the principle behind “Impossibility” respectively, consequentially, and narratively. Through Protosaṃkhyāṅkabindu, “Impossibility” can be / is-a, and because of Protosaṃkhyāṅkabindu, “Impossibility” serves as either an authoring zenith or an authoring boundary.
Protosaṃkhyāṅkabindu is the principle behind Nonexistence, as it stands alone, singular in nature and pinnacle.
Behind the realm in which all theories of concepts themselves are defined is that which can only be observed as Vārvaḍavzūha, which can be defined at the most as Less than (The Principle –) Nothingness. This is even further down from the former, and perfectly more subtractive.
Vārvaḍavzūha contains the fundamental nature and identity of any term, name, type, abode, power, object or concept. Vārvaḍavzūha is the bridge for possibility to allow the changing of definitions for Totality, and at the same time, remains the principle behind all that is Creation. Since everything that exists is defined by something, which (something) comes from Vārvaḍavzūha, those that are aware of Vārvaḍavzūha can only be Less than the union of Possibility and Nothingness – the Grand Principle of Creation.
The former applications can only ever “never be” because of The (Unwritten) Soliloquy Principle as it brought about The (Unwritten) Soliloquy Principle, which together established Proto Nothingness. Reaching this point nullifies the other principles of creation, as it has surpassed the former (and stands outside of / next to / fundamental as the ground of Creation). Categories and sub-branches of Proto Nothingness fall under this.
Soliloquy Principle escapes the confines of Definition, Becoming, Identity, and Self. It is before the connection of Proto Nothingness, and without the necessity of Vārvaḍavzūha.
Authauthausen is unwritten < that which can only be gauged as meta-eternities (beyond an eternal scope) of magnitudes < that which could only be gauged as absolute Inaccessible Cardinals < magnitudes of levels lower than below absolute < the principle in which defined proto nothingness. At this junction, we have gone into that in which comes before the Principle itself. Akin to a ladder of infinite Zettaverses, now we have nothing akin to less than itself. This is the essence of unwritten universals.
< magnitudes of levels lower than the principle of नीचीन (nIcIna) is SenRe:stray, which effectively comes next, or rather, less than the former above. Its negation and subtraction enters into an untersubtractive unrealm that cannot be reached by any hypothetical or paraconceptual absurdities of Possibility – Totality – Nothingness.
The Principle of नीचीन (nIcIna) is the essence of below. It is an indefinable deepness in the pre-abstract logical and irrational uncertainties that is so far less than limitations of any ground state, no amount of Logical Indeterminacy, Irrational Indeterminacy, or Duality Transcendence could ever reach it and maintain any hint of Omnipotenception.
< ∀ paraeternities of metamagnitudes < that which could only be measured as trans-absolute indeterminacies is Geneishalempress. This is effectively translated to less than for all eternities beyond that is which beyond magnitudes less than that which can literally only be measured by beyond absolute (नीचीन) inaccessible cardinals (in the form of scope) of this descending subtractive realm.
< अपर-lower (apar-lower) than below absolute < nihility of that which are cosmically (macro) of ladders less than that which could be defined as lesser than less than unterصفر (below that which is below) is Laevateinn Revenant.
< leagues of categories of levels less than the unteremptiness in which unterոչինչ (under all nothing) is defined is Anathemania. A different descending dividing subtracting ladder of levels is what this represents, as it steps below the former, negating the former from ever reaching this point.
< even the former, barely reaching the beginning of what can be noticed as less than that of an unwritten Anathemania of a < ladder of a principle that is greater than an unending scope of levels decreasing beyond that which can only be akin to an interpretation of forever is Paradisus Paradoxum. This is what awaits that which descends into this. There is no echo to the prelude to the former.
There is no context or paratext that can reach Paradisus Paradoxum.
Less than that which is akin to what is defined in Terms, Names, Essence, Measurement, and Null as it reaches the zero (of an unreachable echelon) point < ਘੱਟ-ਕੁਝ ਵੀ (less than ghaṭa kujha vī) of that which can only be below an ever descending subtractive ladder of sets of less than all of the above into a single empty point is ∀uswählen. ∀uswählen is harshly interpreted because it is so far below any principle of Paradisus Paradoxum…
Here rests the revelation of sets within sets, within untersets within even those that are composed of an even lesser descending hierarchy that sets every subtractive agreement above into a small valueless point. While the translation is roughly simplistic, it exists below the former, and sits nowhere that can be reached by even those that can continuously descend.
The Golden Gate:
This is where it all began… The Golden Gate. Unfortunately, no information can be revealed about this or written, as its truth is automatically unwritten.
Less than that in a tier < the ground in which the above was defined < magnitudes of unterlevels lower than the principle in which an even lower category called The Golden Gate was defined is that which is lesser than that which rests the realm in which codes themselves of all of the above were never defined.
Drecept of Rozensens:
< a lower series of dividing by a “‰ / 0 < α > ϩ” (zero over zero/zero divided by true 0 within alpha of Suggs) categories of that which was less than the Meta of Names, Terms and Essence ≤ the ǅphistopheɮe§ value is the Drecept of Rozensens .
It was revealed by Garnet that there are even more magnitudes than which was described above. In other words, there is even less than what was already described in all of the former…
@debunkdude: But to answer your question yes they can totally destroy the boundaries between life and death existence and non-existence as well as being completely above it which is why they also have the ability thanks to Spades logic to create new levels of non-existence.
Levels of non-existence she has never heard of let alone having any chance to manipulate
@debunkdude: oh so she could rebuilt herself after being conceptually destroyed good at least now we know when it comes to erasing resistance she's comparable to above average human in the suggsverse.
Not tell me can she regenerate from a state of Protosaṃkhyāṅkabindu?
Saying that a character's abilities ignores dimensionality's cosmology power resistances and can only be beaten by absolute all omnipotency is the biggest fallacy ever what feat does she have any way?
Her verse is so small compared to SV that obviously nothing she has done couldn't be done by normal humans in the SV but yet you're arguing that you can just one shot them even though there's not a single entity in her verse that comes anywhere near them in power?
Not to mention the fact that characters like Alex victories ability is that he's plus one opponents stat then times infinity and even he can't beat Lamont.
So already there's characters with her ability times infinity and they still can't win against this guy but you're saying is she can.. why?
@SergeantMuscle: Its not a fallacy when said characters have been shown to be immune to platonic concepts,something that has no hope of existing in your stupid suggverse.I would say it is a bigger fallacy to assume suggs can affect platonic stuff I would say the biggest fallacy is assuming cosmology even works in cross fiction battles.like the base layer in extraverse(as far as I know)is very different from base layers in other fictions.How do you even determine the aleph null to begin cosmology tiering?Your Arguments are as stupid as your characters.I told you to check out etriel's dynamic tiering system for multiversals,maybe then you would understand what I am trying to say.
@debunkdude: again for the 1 billion time all concepts breakdown the moment one enters the third floor this is why the third and fourth floor are in a state that cannot be described since all Concepts one can use to describe it don't exist. SV characters being affected or Bound by these Concepts is laughable. Especially when you can write a new platonic concept or replace them outright.
And still waiting for some feats that can prove that she's above normal human SV level.
Because right now your argument seems to be platonic concept >>> cosmology. Platonic concept >>>>>>dimensionality.
Platonic concept >>>>>> plot, story and narrative manipulation.
Platonic concept >>>>>>concept destruction
Platonic concept >>>> the ability to redefine platonic concept by using Spades or suggslogic.
It's a joke S V characters can redefine or remove platonic Concepts it holds no weight or meaning to them.
And so far no Feats in her favor
That she can destroy or redefine platonic Concepts.
Know that WTC has a very very massive cosmology,may even be bigger than suggs,and still gets shit upon by arcueid
@debunkdude: I'm still waiting for feats.
I obviously don't care about some random dudes tier list he is not some authority figure. Honestly if your character can truly defeat Lamont so easily you shouldn't have such a hard time providing Feats and a explanation
Characters in The SV still eat platonic concepts for breakfast.
For example Alex Victory is a character who cannot lose as long as the platonic concept of Victory still exists. And is again no match for Lamont.
Also you you haven't proven that she can restore herself from Protosaṃkhyāṅkabindu .
Which is a level of non-existence far beyond conceptual non existence.
Because you see when I character is omnipotent omnipotent they can just create new levels to things. So if conceptual erasing doesn't work they can easily just create a level non-existence far more potent.
@debunkdude: I just finished skimming through the first few pages of your link and there's not a single feat for her posted anywhere on that thread.
Your entire argument for her be limited to only omnipotence is because some person on the internet places her at that level even though others onthe internet would argue she's not even universe Plus.
@debunkdude: and why are these characters multiversal?
1 not that I don't even matter cuz characters like Alex Victory who was only tier 5 with able to uncreate an infinite amount of Omniverse is just by flexing in elbow. In addition to having his stats already being one higher than his opponent times infinity.. so I'm pretty sure these characters are probably fodder compared to that
@debunkdude: think for yourself and stop letting other people fight your battles.
Nonlinear GG? what is that even supposed to mean? you really think these nasu characters are only a hair away from being absolutely omnipotence even though their best feat are barely above basic human level in the SV?
How about this let's throw tiering systems out the window.
give me some Feats show me some skills.
Going by feat Lamont is out of her League going by skilled his abilities completely counter her
your only argument is nonlinear GG and
Platonic Concepts manipulation solos everything.
@sagathelegend: and is despite the fact that there are really no Feats that put her Beyond transcend human level in the SV.
Like what resistance does she have to plot or story manipulation?
Or metafictional manipulation like if Lamont destroys her very concept art from the series.
characters in The SV Tower far beyond platonic concepts.
@sagathelegend: i know right?
and is despite the fact that there are really no Feats that put her Beyond transcend human level in the SV. Or just the Multiverse level in general.
Like what resistance does she have to plot or story manipulation?
Or metafictional manipulation like if Lamont destroys her very concept art from the series.
characters in The SV Tower far beyond platonic concepts. Being able to create new truths.
@debunkdude: he's not coming this is the the four-time you tag him in this thread.
If you're too incompetent to provide reasons feats or a proper argument to defend your position for yourself. You shouldn't have said anything in the first place.
Most people when when see an Suggsverse thread. They typical response is rage refusing to justify the reasoning or spamming it or demanding the thread to be closed down or avoiding it entirely. this because deep down they know that this verse reign supreme over the favorite series and they can't think of a logical counter argument.
@one_of_two: wow that's correct did you read a few of the books yourself or did you see this at the Wiki page or Reddit?
when you look at his bio it clearly points out that his physiology is a paradox. Not human not God but paradox .
@sergeantmuscle: Well by actual logic an omnipotent being shouldn't be beaten in any way, since he's literally above everyone in the verse. Even if you assume that there are two omnipotent beings in the verse I don't think they could harm each other since both of them are supposed to be supreme.
@shadowrazer24: but the issue with that is that they're unable to harm it each other than they're not omnipotent since an omnipotent being should be capable of doing anything. Such as harming other omnipotent beings or even surpassing the concept of omnipotent if the beings choose to apply itself.
An omnipotent being would not harm another omnipotent being.Why?Bcoz two cannot exist with each other.There can only be one omnipotent per verse.These paradoxes wont even exist in the first place.Omnipotence is a state of boundless existence beyond all forms of concepts,paradoxes,logics,equations bla bla.If there are two omnipotents in a verse it would debunk them both.This is how Tenchi verse can be debunked.Omnipotent of a verse is the boundless source from which all concepts,dualities,trialities spring up.Dualities are boundries that exist in all fictional characters,no matter if you wanna call it beyond omnipotence or not.No fictional character can be effectively beyond dualities and trialities without a meaningful story,even SV characters.Any character that is alive,is not dead.Any character that exists,is not nonexistent.Every character that changes,is not beyond cause.Sugg logic wont help you escape from the most fundamental philosophical dualities and concepts.
Even though I took the time to type that stuff I am sure that Those two above me wont even try to read it.
@debunkdude: I hate to break this to you but Lamont physiology is that of a paradox.
He is both dead and alive existing and non-existing everywhere and nowhere. And it's beyond pretty much all forms of logic.
Paradoxes are a race of beings that are well paradoxes. They are by Nature not confined to logical reasoning so trying to the bump this when using logic and reasoning is pointless.
Where was it ever stated in its
definition that only one omnipotent being can exist?
At least If you are trying to defend your verse,at least give answer to all accusations.What about "cause".No fictional character can ever exceed the concept of "cause" and have a meaningful story.Are you telling me that suggverse is just a bunch of books with OP character abilities and no story?Thats pitiful.
@debunkdude: unfortunately there are some books that are just that.
Some of the better stories are the ones that don't involve the omnipotent characters.
The main character didn't start as omnipotent he was basically a paradox with conceptual abilities and then eventually achieved completely above omnipotent status and surpass even the powers of Lionel sugg himself. Is a story about watching a character progress in strength and trying to discovered the theoretical limitations to power. There is also a tournament to replace the creator of the Suggs etc. Relationships trying to find soul mates etc...
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