Archetype Arcueid Brunestud, Composite Gilgamesh And BB vs Lamont Heartfelt Vanity

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SergeantMuscle

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#101  Edited By SergeantMuscle

@etriel: but honestly I do think it's adorable that you actually believe that you can create a paradoxical less Limitless omnipotent by paradoxically creating limit to omnipotence.

I mean if philosophers couldn't do it and threw out the idea entirely what makes you think that you can do it

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debunkdude

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@SergeantMuscle: Well I am no nasuverse expert so You may wanna do some research on your own or maybe search some arcueid threads on CV.(you may also look at RTs by zgtfreak).Also Man no need to lose your shit over fictional characters.

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debunkdude

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@SergeantMuscle: Also at the end of the day even philosophers are humans.What makes you so sure that their word is final and absolute and they understand omnipotence properly?A writer can simply avoid these issues by not addressing the omnipotence.Also what we use here of omnipotence means a completely boundless,absolute,limitless(both physical and conceptual) and totally perfect entity,free from any or all logical paradoxes.

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SergeantMuscle

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#104  Edited By SergeantMuscle

@debunkdude: "Also at the end of the day even philosophers are humans.What makes you so sure that their word is final and absolute and they understand omnipotence properly?"

Just a rule of thumbs it's foolish to think You know better than a person who study this kind of stuff for a living.

And as far as the is concerned I'm not really convinced anyone nasuvetse is beyond universal. Whole thing about BB is 8d is nonsense. Since you can't possibly put a eight dimensional construct in a purely 3D World that's like containing a 3D object in a one-dimensional line world. Her world was simply a virtual simulation of a Multiverse what's Gilgamesh destroyed was merely a moon size computer and nothing more. This is even more of an outlier when compare to his strength in the main series.

Whereas, Tenchi is at least stated by multiple sources to be absolutely omnipotence and his casual feet I'm almost destroying an infinite 12 dimensional Multiverse at bare minimum put on outerversal level casually.

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debunkdude

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SwagPack

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@sergeantmuscle:

Fate verse has consistently shown higher dimensionality (or implied it at the very least) and top tier characters have at least universal feats.

You can put a 3D object into a 2D world wherein the 2D beings of that world will perceive the 3D object as 2D object due to only being able to perceive up to 2 dimensions. It doesn't make the 3D object into 2D. This is even more true for fictional characters where it is hard to constantly maintain every point and established mechanic without it heavily degrading the story. Her being 8D is perfectly reasonable.

Her world is not a simple simulation and this has been addressed in every thread to the point it's boring to repeat it.

Gilgamesh didn't destroy "a moon size computer".

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SergeantMuscle

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@swagpack: actually no you can't .2D objects in reality cannot exist in a 3D world. likewise a 3D object in reality cannot exist in a one-dimensional world.

True two-dimensional objects that is something that does not exist in our three-dimensional world since even atoms and quarks are three dimensional . A three dimensional being in reality cannot interact with a true two dimensional object or exist in a true 2D world . likewise placing a three-dimensional object in a true two-dimensional world is inconceivable. Much less putting an eighth dimensional world inside a 3D object.

BB's simulation of a Multiverse is a very convincing simulation but a simulation nonetheless.

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SwagPack

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SergeantMuscle

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#109  Edited By SergeantMuscle

@swagpack: again not scientifically possible.

I don't really need to know the series to know you can't divide by zero so...

Unless of course the character it like Beyond omnipotent or something.

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RikuYamaha

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would be nice if we could have some on panel feats from this suggsverse guy

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SergeantMuscle

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#111  Edited By SergeantMuscle

@rikuyamaha: oh my God! yes I was hoping someone would ask me this!!

Chris and Lamont see the birth of a new omniverse, which changes them forever.

[...] You two were able to see the Truth behind the Grand Principle, and because of that, you entered into a dimension behind THE ALL.” Zacchaeus Iscariot said.

They have become beyond the omniverse. And has fully transcended the concept of omnipotence to the point where they exist at a paradoxical state.

“We are unable to exist, yet we do exist. We are unable to experience oblivion, yet we have. We have seen something that could not have even been theoretically predicted in any sense of actuality or possibility. We should not exist in any theory of possibility or potentiality, and we don’t. However, here we are. We stand outside of the Omniverse, in awe of its creation.” Sincere explained.

Before getting a grip on their new existence, their presence caused infinite size Omniverse to fold up like cheap lawn furniture.

With months gone by, Sincere and Lamont found themselves having to travel to different worlds. No matter where they went, reality would collapse because it was not their true reality. [...] This was never intentional, since they could not comprehend the nature of their existence.

After Chris and Lamont accidentally destroy the omniverse, they're chilling in pretty much nothing and then a high-roller comes around to tell them to shape up.

Nathanael Dragonscript poked Christopher Sincere Pride on the head.

"And with that, the seal that your God had placed on you since birth has been broken. Your greatest gift is no longer a casket hidden behind your reality." Quantum Probability; the manipulation of Cause and Effect was what came out of the casket.

Sincere could now create and control cause and effect.

Now let me talk about Lamont abilities in his first and weakest form.

Reality Warping Immunity: He was shown to be completely immune to the reality warping of The Bishop, whom had just completely warped the fabrics of reality, rearranging the infinite Omniversal structure and its complete infinite levels and infinite subsets and supersets of infinity. Matter, mass, energy, time, space, constants and laws were all rearranged to his will without any effort at all. Graszton was completely unaffected.

Inverted World: Lamont Heartfelt Vanity has an ultimate defense known as Inverted World. This allows them to reverse the direction, effect and even the target of any ability he desires passively and before the event even happens.

Enhanced Resistance: When the strings of reality tried to unweave Lamont, reality itself proved to be ineffective against him..

Quantum Jumping: Lamont has shown the ability to quantum jump across a centillion amount of universes in a quantum frame of time..

Now in his second form his black monarchs form his speed increases to Absolute omnipresence. And was able to transcend the very concept of fiction and defeat the author and take the title of creator of the slugworth temporarily.

His final form Pendulum Kingbreaker(lhv) he literally becomes the suggsverse itself and the power power hierarchy.

Black King's Punch: The Black Monarch bolsters his arm back, and with a vicious hook punch to side of the face of his target, he creates a ripple that shakes the very foundations of Heir to the Stars and beyond. This punch is so powerful that is beyond and necessary need of powers strength speed time immortality existence non-existence paradox.

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SergeantMuscle

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One_of_Two

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#113  Edited By One_of_Two

@etriel said:

Our definition of Omnipotence (at least among myself) is the Absolute Power to do and be anything that is intrinsically possible. Anything minus the paradoxes. As CS Lewis described.

So, your defintion of Omnipotence is:

Having the power to do anything possible. And by possible, you mean anything that does not violate logic.

I'm sorry but this definition does not seem coherent. For example, It is perfectly possible for me to make an object so heavy that I cannot lift it. Its perfectly within my abilities, it does not violate logic, it causes no paradoxes. I can just grab a few bags of cement, some water, sand, and voilà, its done. It is however impossible for an Omnipotent being due to his nature. It is not logic that prohibits this action, its the paradoxical nature of the Omnipotent being.

Therefore you need to change your definition in order to address this problem.

Please correct me, if I misunderstood your definition.

And don't get me wrong I do not do this in order to score internet points or scoring "Ha! Gotcha"s. I'm sincerely intrigued by these type of debates and I enjoy them very much.

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RikuYamaha

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@sergeantmuscle: cool, but i was talking about pics of said feats, not quotes

like this for example.

No Caption Provided

if i can get thoses, that would be great.

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SergeantMuscle

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RikuYamaha

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@sergeantmuscle: look at my example

No Caption Provided

shots and pics from the original source.

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SergeantMuscle

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@rikuyamaha: may I ask what difference does it make? The scan you provide it does not in any way prove it from authentic source.

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RikuYamaha

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One_of_Two

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@rikuyamaha: Feel free to read portions of the Suggs books here.
https://books.google.bg/books/about/Heir_to_the_Stars.html?id=P7UJAwAAQBAJ&redir_esc=y

Sergeant Muscle's quotes seem accurate, I even found some that were previously posted.

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RikuYamaha

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@rikuyamaha: Feel free to read portions of the Suggs books here.

https://books.google.bg/books/about/Heir_to_the_Stars.html?id=P7UJAwAAQBAJ&redir_esc=y

Sergeant Muscle's quotes seem accurate, I even found some that were previously posted.

which chapters are they from? i would like to know tbh. and thank you for the link, i'll read it when i get the chap.

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One_of_Two

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@rikuyamaha: You'd have to ask Sergeant Muscle. As I said I only found quotes that he posted in the Battler vs Ace of Spades thread, because they had the chapters and pages on them.

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RikuYamaha

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@one_of_two: i see, well thank you anyway for the help.

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SergeantMuscle

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#123  Edited By SergeantMuscle

@rikuyamaha: All the excerpts I took

are from Solecism Complete V - Prelude, a prequel arc.

That being said you can clearly see how these Feats Stack Up.

Look up Solecism V - Prelude by Lionel Suggs

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RikuYamaha

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@rikuyamaha: All the excerpts I took

are from Solecism Complete V - Prelude, a prequel arc.

That being said you can clearly see how these Feats Stack Up.

Look up Solecism V - Prelude by Lionel Suggs

i'll give it a look then. thanks.

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SergeantMuscle

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debunkdude

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#126  Edited By debunkdude

@sergeantmuscle: Suggverse characters can be beat by more infinities due to the nature of their higher layers,thus making them effectively linear.Non Linear characters spitestomp

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SergeantMuscle

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@debunkdude: ... considering that Suggsverse linear hierarchy is composed of levels of omnipotence. I don't think simply being nonlinear allows you to beat them.

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debunkdude

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@SergeantMuscle: The omnipotence suggverse uses is imperfect and not platonic at all.They Are obviously linear.Also the kind of layers that suggverse has,other verses have too like xianxia,WTC aka fiction in fiction layers.These characters will stomp a lot of WTC and xianxia characters.

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SergeantMuscle

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@debunkdude: no I recently spoke with Suggs and he Define omnipotence as the ability to do absolutely anything. And cannot be surpassed by fundamental logic and imaginary logic.

So he's definition actually agrees with yours.

However characters Beyond omnipotence are beyond the concept of imaginary and fundamental logic they operate under a new kind of logic known as Spades logic that they invented. This is what Christopher Spades and Alex Victory operate under.

But beyond that logic there's a new kind of logic known as Suggs logic.

A form of logic so complex that not even Lionel Suggs and characters like himself can understand it and characters like can manipulate and understand suggslogic. Creating what is known as an anti omnipotence equation.

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debunkdude

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@SergeantMuscle: Umm nope.If suggverse actually defines his omnipotence like that,then his omnipotence has been "debunked" like choushin etc.

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SergeantMuscle

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@debunkdude: that's because you're using regular logic to define it.

I agree that you omnipotence in fiction cannot exist.

But you just prove that you have no issue with the idea.

The point is slugs characters can advance beyond the hierarchy of omnipotence by using different forms of logic like Spades logic and suggslogic

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debunkdude

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@SergeantMuscle: The definition of omnipotence I and others here use is a boundless state of existence independent from all forms of laws,equations,logics,change,cause etc.For example the suggverse characters arent really beyond absolute time and existance. as they cause changes to their surroundings and change in themselves.And change implies being within time.And there is always a kind of structure they exist in.So they arent really beyond existence.The boundless omnipotent is not bound by such things.

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Yasindermann

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#133  Edited By Yasindermann
No Caption Provided

Mandrakk real, he solos.

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debunkdude

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Also suggs saying omnipotence is layered doesnt really mean it would be.I might as well create a character that can already be beaten by giving him a blowjob and be done with it bcoz author statement.All suggverse characters would have to give him a blowjob to beat him.Why?Coz I said so.

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SergeantMuscle

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@debunkdude: which is obviously restricted by Logic since you also refused to accept the idea that omnipotence beings can make themselves more powerful than omnipotent.

Suggsverse characters are not restricted by such logic. Thanks to stuff like Spade logic and suggslogic

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debunkdude

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#136  Edited By debunkdude

@SergeantMuscle: Umm I just said that the boundless omnipotence lies beyond all logics and paradoxes.How can you,a mere Room Level human with one dimensional brain,gauge the power of a boundless omnipotent?

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SergeantMuscle

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@debunkdude: okay so what's the issue? if you believe the omnipotence is boundless and they can make themselves Beyond omnipotence then what's the problem?

Surely a boundless omnipotent being can make themselves omnipotent Plus. And beyond.

Pendulum kingbreaker Lamont is tier 1 omnipotent. Meaning he's completely beyond the concept of omnipotent Plus.

Tier 8 omnipotence

Tier 7 omnipotent+

Tier 6 beyond omnipotent

Tier 5 beyond omnipotent+

Tier 4 massively beyond omnipotent

Tier 3 massively beyond omnipotent+

Tier 2 completely beyond omnipotent

Tier 1 completely beyond omnipotent+

Tier 0 above it all

which should already be sufficient enough to God Stomp imo.

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One_of_Two

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#138  Edited By One_of_Two

@yasindermann: He is not in the thread, stop derailing. If you don't have anything to add to the discussion, please do not bother posting in it.

@debunkdude: If your definition of Omnipotence is, and I quote "a boundless state of existence independent from all forms of laws,equations,logics,change,cause etc", than Omnipotent being can indeed make changes to themselves and their surroundings, there is nothing stopping them from being within time and outside it, because they are, after all, according to your definition, independent of logic.

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debunkdude

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@One_of_Two: *sigh*.Go Read My response again.I just said a boundless omnipotent is beyond absolute change and cause.That is to say it is unchanging.Some people with one dimensional brains are unable to comprehend what I say smh

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SagaTheLegend

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#140  Edited By SagaTheLegend

Lamont might win beacuse Arcueid's always being stronger tham her opponent is a huge NLF (especially since Gaia is not omnipotent or all powerful in any way) and she is honestly probably has not the attack potency to keep up with Suggsverse (Of course I don't buy the beyond omnipotent crap, but they are obviously beyond multiversal)

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debunkdude

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Listen you bunch of suggweebs.Suggverse can never be "beyond" linear power.Bcoz being beyond linear power requires affecting platonic concepts.These are the absolute concepts which emanate from a true boundless.For example no one in suggverse is beyond time as they affect each other and cause changes around themselves.They are not really beyond linear power as they can be more or less powerful than each other in stats.A TRUE OMNIPOTENT IS BEYOND ALL THIS STUFF NO NEED FOR SUGG LOGIC.Since suggverse has no true omnipotent,they can never hope to achieve non linear heights.Example WTC has a insane fiction in fiction cosmology,what normal people call"beyond omnipotent"but they still get clapped by Arcueid

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SagaTheLegend

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#142  Edited By SagaTheLegend

@debunkdude: Platonic Concepts are meaningless in a verse that does not use it. If you are beyond everything in your physical verse (bound by nothing in your world) and you are called omnipotent (without anti feats) then you are omnipotent and that is it. Suggsverse has no true omnipotent not because of that, but because of its tiering.

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debunkdude

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@SagaTheLegend: you are using a different definition of omnipotent than me.Being beyond physical things in your verse is not really omnipotent.Also platonic concepts do matter.The platonic concept of time means change.You cannot be above it unless you are changeless,this definition does not change verse to verse.You can just be timeless with respect to beings of a lower level,never true timeless.Suggverse has no hope of competing against non linear characters as long as their characters can be beat by more"infinities"

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debunkdude

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And yeah suggverse has a lot of antifeats.Literally the entire suggverse is a ANTI FEAT.Anti Omnipotent equation My Ass.

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SagaTheLegend

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#145  Edited By SagaTheLegend

@debunkdude: @SagaTheLegend: you are using a different definition of omnipotent than me.Being beyond physical things in your verse is not really omnipotent.Also platonic concepts do matter.The platonic concept of time means change.You cannot be above it unless you are changeless,this definition does not change verse to verse.You can just be timeless with respect to beings of a lower level,never true timeless.Suggverse has no hope of competing against non linear characters as long as their characters can be beat by more"infinities"

  • Lol, most fictions have being that transcend time affecting each other incluiding Fate itself.That is called "acausality negation", conceptual manipualtion or simply plot. It is not a good argument here man.
  • It changes because most verses do not hold "platonic concepts" as a fundamental level of reality, so it may work on a particular verse but not on others. You cannot apply conceptuality to a physics based universe.
  • It is thou. Above everything in the verse, being called explicitly omnipotent. It does not matter if your verse is physical, conceptual or not. In the end you are omnipotent and that is it. The definition of omnipotence is being able to do anything and that is it.
  • Quick Note: I am not arguing being above a physical universe makes you an omnipotent thou.
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debunkdude

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@SagaTheLegend: umm nope those fiction that have their beings transcend time are not really doing so.They are just timeless with respect to lower beings.And no,Platonic Concepts do matter.Platonic Concepts mean perfection,which one cant achieve by adding more layers of imperfection.This is the reason why,as far as I know,DC has Badly outclassed Marvel.Because DC takes platonic concepts very very seriously.Not like some random series that calls their characters beyond death then have them erased from existence.Being Called explictly omnipotent is not enough.There must be an absence of anti feats..

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SagaTheLegend

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: umm nope those fiction that have their beings transcend time are not really doing so.They are just timeless with respect to lower beings.

  • So 99% of the fictions who did it are not actually timeless. Great. So being affected by anything and changing would count as anti feat for any beings who transcend time.
  • Also there is no such thing as timeless to lower beings. You are either timeless or you aren't. That would only make sense if you are referring to lower beings perceiving them as timeless when they are not.

And no,Platonic Concepts do matter.Platonic Concepts mean perfection,which one cant achieve by adding more layers of imperfection.

  • I said it matters mostly in universes that uses it. That is it really.

This is the reason why,as far as I know,DC has Badly outclassed Marvel.Because DC takes platonic concepts very very seriously.

  • Well it depends, but I can't argue that DC universe is much more conceptual and boundless than Marvel's.

Not like some random series that calls their characters beyond death then have them erased from existence.

  • Existence Erasure only counts as a anti feat if you talking about death a complete absolute end to anything. The much more common use is: death as the ending the action or fact of dying or being killed; the end of the life of a person or organism.
  • In this case if someone was completely erased from existence, it would not count as an anti feat, since they were not alive or dead or even existed at all to begin with.

Being Called explictly omnipotent is not enough.There must be an absence of anti feats..

  • Yeah and that was what I said earlier. Thai is the reason Suggs has no Omnipotents.
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debunkdude

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@SagaTheLegend: Actually all non omnipotents in fiction arent really timeless.They are still within time as they change their surroundings and themselves.Also Platonic concept of death means when something with life ceases to exist and existance erasure falls under that.And Suggverse loses here

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SergeantMuscle

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Listen you bunch of suggweebs.Suggverse can never be "beyond" linear power.Bcoz being beyond linear power requires affecting platonic concepts.These are the absolute concepts which emanate from a true boundless.For example no one in suggverse is beyond time as they affect each other and cause changes around themselves.They are not really beyond linear power as they can be more or less powerful than each other in stats.A TRUE OMNIPOTENT IS BEYOND ALL THIS STUFF NO NEED FOR SUGG LOGIC.Since suggverse has no true omnipotent,they can never hope to achieve non linear heights.Example WTC has a insane fiction in fiction cosmology,what normal people call"beyond omnipotent"but they still get clapped by Arcueid

characters in the SV eat platonic concepts for breakfast. Literally by a third floor of the cosmology all Concepts begin to breakdown leaving it in the state that literally cannot be described. characters bound to concept literally can't survive here. It will have to be able to create new concept as well as being able to read redefine who they are in an instant something that you just said an omnipotent being can't do..and this dude right here is not only completely Beyond the third floor but it's a part of him.

You just said that omnipotent is boundless and Limitless but now you're saying that omnipotent being cannot change themselves if they desire to or affect other beings that are omnipotent?

And again for record saying that ability is only limited to omnipotence is by the very definition the most No Limit fallacy No Limits fallacy argument ever.

Sugg explains anti omnipotence

Anti-Omnipotence is not an ability or power, nor does it have an anti-power or opposing presence to it. It literally changes the narrative value of Omnipotence to be Soliloquy Principle, completely disregarding the mode of being “almighty in every sense and aspect”. While the mode of being “almighty in every sense and aspect” isn’t negated, nor is it changed, it simply becomes so irrelevant that it shouldn’t even be acknowledged. Just like Omnipotence can achieve and do absolutely anything without any limit or condition, including the conceptually impossible and logically impossible, Anti-Omnipotence is not connected to or of feats and anything, nor it is connected to or of limits and conditions, including definitions and conceptual possibility and impossibility. It’s not of any definition or conceptuality, nor is it part of the Omni attributes and modes that make up Omnipotence. It’s a complete antithesis to Omnipotence in every way, without eliminating the meaning or validity of Omnipotence. It’s just that Omnipotence is of no value or meaning in the face of Anti-Omnipotence.

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debunkdude

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@SergeantMuscle: ->Says characters are beyond concepts

->Said characters can be killed(not beyond death),Can be more or less powerful than each other(not beyond power),Cause changes around each other(hence not beyond cause and change),And also freakin interact with one another (not beyond emotions)etc.

Suggverse is just a giant collection of antifeats.