Archer & Lancer vs Kakashi Hatake & Might Guy

Archer & Lancer (Composite F/sn)

VS

Kakashi Hatake & Might Guy

In character

Winner by KO, Incapacitation or Death

Random encounter

Standard gear and abilities

Fight takes place at an unpopulated city setting at night

Who'd win? For what reasons?

Callouts:

If Anyone's interested in this battle but doesn't know about some of the other characters, here are Archer's, Lancer's, Kakashi's & Guy's respect threads.

Gae Bolg GG

Team 1 wins

Haven't seen fate as a series so I don't have an informed opinion, but from what I've seen from the fights, they aren't penetrating Susano, Kamui Raikiri kills them and they can't keep up with Night Guy.

Archer could hit both far away and they'd never know. Team 1

If it's a large starting distance Archer could solo. Past that, it would depend on how quickly Guy went into the higher gates. If Lancer uses Gae Bolg before Guy goes into gates, team 1, if Guy goes gates first, team 2.

If Guy goes 8 gates...he's gonna solo. He was speed blitzing Madara so hard Marada though he was gonna die.

fate team. Lancer gae bolgs one of them, archer hruntings the other

None of those protects them from an conceptual attack like Gae Bolg and even Guy won't be able to avoid it.

@theorder14: Nobody has a Susanoo here, but for future reference, it probably could block it.

That's how Archer blocked it, with a shield with enough magical energy to overwhelm it.

@just_banter: As I understand it, we are meant to take their most powerful forms. That would be DMS Kakashi, who has a perfect Susano among other things.

@syclone903: I don't know how you're getting that. Neither the picture or anything in the op indicates that this is dms kakashi

@blackestnight93: Isnt' that how battle forums work? Take their most powerful form unless otherwise stated? Or can I take Kakashi and Guy when they were kids now, or after Kakashi lost his Sharingan and Guy's leg is broken? I could swear that those were the rules.

So I should always take the form that is in the picture then?

Sharingan precog, and kamui retaliation.

@syclone903: Unless otherwise stated you take their average forms, not one off power ups or most powerful versions. So that's typically War Arc Kakashi and Guy.

Fate Team. Neither of the Nins has a counter to Gae Bolg and Shirou can Just nuke them with Caladbolg

Nope. The rules are to assume their latest/currents versions. That would Hokage Kakashi, who no longer has DMS

Well now I just have two conflicting explanations.

@syclone903: nope. The rule is to go by the versions pictured or specified in the OP. They are fighting at their best, i.e no jobbing, etc though.

@avatarreiko: 1 sharingan kakashi is clearly pictured in the OP mate.....

LOL, 3 conflicting opinions

@just_banter: @avatarreiko: @blackestnight93: @syclone903: go by the versions in the pictures.

Yes, I know. The guy above was arguing that it's DMS Kakashi.

@just_banter: Archer blocked the thrown version of Gae Bolg. No one ever blocked the causality attack

@syclone903:

Sharingan precog, and kamui retaliation.

If Archer stays at long distance. Kakashi won't see it coming even with Sharingan. It can read movements and predict the opponents actions to a degree but it isn't truly real precognition. Kakashi actually have to see the atk and the opponents movements with the sharingan.It's useless if the atk fire at his blind spot. He cannot predict what he cannot see.

As already mentioned, that was the thrown version which doesn't have the ability to reverse causality. To completely counter Gae Bolg, you will have to have high luck and a powerful shield to block the thrown version. Which is pretty much what the quote u posted said.

@avatarreiko: and it seemed like you were saying that it was hokage kakashi. Hence why I pointed out that war arc kakashi is pictured in the OP

Since distance is unspecified and according to battle forum rules its 10 feet

Battle Forum Rules

When there is no information, we use these as the default battle conditions:

• Fighting to the best of their abilities, within their normal ethical / moral boundaries.
• No prep, no prior knowledge.
• A populated city street, starting 10 ft apart.
• Standard gear, current mainstream canon versions (current / standard when the thread was originally made)
• Win by KO, death, or BFR.
• Rest / healing between rounds (for Gauntlets)

Team 1, Archer snipes while Lancer 1 shots either one

Team 1.

Is this supposed to be some kinda joke.

Naruto team stomps them with ease. Plus they are faster too

Coming back to this, I don't recall it being stated anywhere that Gae Bolg's thrown version doesn't have the causality effect. He still uses the NP when throwing it, and in fact, I recall it being stated several times that it's supposed to be a thrown NP (I don't have the scans with me though). Then again, I only know the VN for Lancer, so it may be in a guide book somewhere, that said, I know that VN pretty well.

EDIT: Actually dw, I found it. It's implied I guess, but not exactly stated. Just that it places more 'emphasis' on attack power. Eh. Though, it does say it still retains the ability to strike no matter if it's dodged or not, so I reckon it keeps the causality reversal. Unless I'm reading it wrong.

Gallery

On top of this, the thrusted version is an attack that Cu came up with himself, the original is the thrown version, which leads me further to believe that it still has the causality reversal, as it has always been a cursed spear, it didn't suddenly gain the curse because Cu used it differently.

@just_banter: Nasu already said that the thrown version doesn't have the casuality reversal.

It does not carry the property or concept of “always pierces the opponent’s heart”, but both the power and the area of effect are increased. Rather than dispatching a single foe with absolute accuracy, its focus as a technique is to attack the enemies together with the surrounding area in a carpet bombing fashion to cause massive destruction. Due to being hurled with all of his energy, it cannot be dodged or blocked under normal circumstances. Even resilient bulwark or agile body are not immune to its power, so Gáe Bolg will send the enemy horde flying. If it were to also have the ability to directly strike the heart, it would be closer to the level of Lugh's power as a higher level version of Fragarach.^[2] The idea that Archer is capable of blocking it with Rho Aias after the spear pierces through the first six layers seems impossible to him.

only found this from the wiki but better than nothing.

edit: this quote comes from fate's offical material book.

Fate/complete material III: World Material - The Servants of the Fifth Holy Grail War: Lancer, p.022-023

@avatarreiko: Actually, Archer in Fate/Extella can trace and use Gay Bulge during UBW. But since it's usable in UBW he can probably trace it in Real World.

So 2x Gay Bulge, Team 2 has no chance.

Actually it doesnt matter if Guy start in 8 Gates. As long as Lancer successfully chants the stab version of Gae Bolg, one of the team 2 is already dead(stabbed) before the stabbing action is done.

But the thrown version has a homing lock which aims for the heart.

It doesn't have the ability to reverse causality. I think Nasu meant that it's unavoidable because of its power, speed and AoE.