Can Apollo from wildstorm defeat Black Adam ?
Apollo vs Black Adam
I would think that Black Adam would win through.
I think that he is tronger, faster, more durable and a superior fighter to Apollo.
Apollo has long range attack options but against Black Adams speed i don't think that he can win.
Alpha says:
"I think he can take him. "
You don't know Apollo. Unless you have something to support your claims - something other than just being the same class of SPB as Majestic and a copy of Superman, something like him actually performing feats that put him on the level of either of those two - they don't mean much.
Buckshot says:
"Alpha says:" I think he can take him. "You don't know Apollo. Unless you have something to support your claims - something other than just being the same class of SPB as Majestic and a copy of Superman, something like him actually performing feats that put him on the level of either of those two - they don't mean much."
Just a logical conclusion. If a character is said to be on par with another, I think its safe to assume he is. For example: Black Adam has been said to be on Superman level but I never seen him to do anything on par with Supes strength. As far as the rip-off statement, he is. He has the same powers and get them the same way. All I know is what has been said about the character.
What do you know?
Buckshot says:
"Alpha says:" I think he can take him. "You don't know Apollo. Unless you have something to support your claims - something other than just being the same class of SPB as Majestic and a copy of Superman, something like him actually performing feats that put him on the level of either of those two - they don't mean much."
And why would you assume I don't know Apollo Buckwheat?
Alpha says:
"Just a logical conclusion. If a character is said to be on par with another, I think its safe to assume he is. For example: Black Adam has been said to be on Superman level but I never seen him to do anything on par with Supes strength. As far as the rip-off statement, he is. He has the same powers and get them the same way. All I know is what has been said about the character.What do you know? "
In the case of BA and Superman, you could show that they are approximately the same strength level a number of ways. The easiest, but probably least accurate might be to point out that, aside from magic, Captain Marvel and Superman are roughly even in a fight (going by showings in the number of times they've clashed). Then you could show that Captain Marvel and Black Adam are equal in abilities, so if one can do something, the other can. That doesn't really work for Apollo though because the only thing that even suggests he's on Majestic's level is that he is a "Majestic Class" SPB. However, no specific description of "Majestic Class" has been given so assuming it automatically means anyone in that class is on Majestic's level in every area is just that, an assumption. It could very well be something similar to Marvel's classification where anyone who can lift over 100 tons is listed at 100 tons. Anyone who can lift over a certain number of tons may fit the Majestic Class but not be anywhere near Majestic himself. It could also be a label for a type of SPB. The only other named Majestic Class hero was The High and he has no lifting/pushing feats either, but he does share the same basic "superman" traits as Majestic and Apollo (those being: flight, laser vision, super strength and speed). It could even be that he has one power that is equal to Mr. Majestic's, or any number of other possible things. You have no proof to say that Apollo matches Mr. Majestic in any area. In fact, there's more evidence to the contrary. Majestic has shown vastly superior speed (and reaction time), strength, intelligence, variability of his laser vision, durability (except for sun feats), etc. As for Apollo being anywhere near Superman simply because he's a "ripoff" with the same power source, you'd again need to provide proof of Apollo being on Superman's level. A lot of copies don't match the original and occasionally some surpass it. To find out where Apollo fits in with Superman you could go by feats, and Superman definitely wins out. And if you really want to look at your claim, "He has the same powers and get them the same way" I can take apart both sides of that statement. Apollo does not have all the same powers that Superman has and for the powers they do share, Apollo's are weaker. Even disregarding all the one off powers Superman has, Apollo does not have freeze breath, a biokinetic aura, microscopic/x-ray vision or super senses. He also does not share Superman's weaknesses. As to how he gets his powers, his abilities were manufactured in him with technology, they are not natural. I know you meant that he gets them from the sun, but why and how he gets them from the sun matters. The enhancements given to him work differently than Superman's natural solar energy absorbing cells. The charge time and expenditure of solar energy is different between the two heroes, as is how much each one can take in at a time. There are probably more differences and things I could point out, but we can just start with this.
Alpha says:
"And why would you assume I don't know Apollo Buckwheat? "
Because you didn't know that Apollo has absolutely no feats that put him on either Mr. Majestic's or Superman's level, so even if you were planning on backing up your statement, you couldn't.
Buckshot says:
Alpha says:"And why would you assume I don't know Apollo Buckwheat? "Because you didn't know that Apollo has absolutely no feats that put
him on either Mr. Majestic's or Superman's level, so even if you were
planning on backing up your statement, you couldn't."
LMAO. Nice one.
Buckshot says:
"Alpha says:" Just a logical conclusion. If a character is said to be on par with another, I think its safe to assume he is. For example: Black Adam has been said to be on Superman level but I never seen him to do anything on par with Supes strength. As far as the rip-off statement, he is. He has the same powers and get them the same way. All I know is what has been said about the character. What do you know? "In the case of BA and Superman, you could show that they are approximately the same strength level a number of ways. The easiest, but probably least accurate might be to point out that, aside from magic, Captain Marvel and Superman are roughly even in a fight (going by showings in the number of times they've clashed). Then you could show that Captain Marvel and Black Adam are equal in abilities, so if one can do something, the other can. That doesn't really work for Apollo though because the only thing that even suggests he's on Majestic's level is that he is a "Majestic Class" SPB. However, no specific description of "Majestic Class" has been given so assuming it automatically means anyone in that class is on Majestic's level in every area is just that, an assumption. It could very well be something similar to Marvel's classification where anyone who can lift over 100 tons is listed at 100 tons. Anyone who can lift over a certain number of tons may fit the Majestic Class but not be anywhere near Majestic himself. It could also be a label for a type of SPB. The only other named Majestic Class hero was The High and he has no lifting/pushing feats either, but he does share the same basic "superman" traits as Majestic and Apollo (those being: flight, laser vision, super strength and speed). It could even be that he has one power that is equal to Mr. Majestic's, or any number of other possible things. You have no proof to say that Apollo matches Mr. Majestic in any area. In fact, there's more evidence to the contrary. Majestic has shown vastly superior speed (and reaction time), strength, intelligence, variability of his laser vision, durability (except for sun feats), etc. As for Apollo being anywhere near Superman simply because he's a "ripoff" with the same power source, you'd again need to provide proof of Apollo being on Superman's level. A lot of copies don't match the original and occasionally some surpass it. To find out where Apollo fits in with Superman you could go by feats, and Superman definitely wins out. And if you really want to look at your claim, "He has the same powers and get them the same way" I can take apart both sides of that statement. Apollo does not have all the same powers that Superman has and for the powers they do share, Apollo's are weaker. Even disregarding all the one off powers Superman has, Apollo does not have freeze breath, a biokinetic aura, microscopic/x-ray vision or super senses. He also does not share Superman's weaknesses. As to how he gets his powers, his abilities were manufactured in him with technology, they are not natural. I know you meant that he gets them from the sun, but why and how he gets them from the sun matters. The enhancements given to him work differently than Superman's natural solar energy absorbing cells. The charge time and expenditure of solar energy is different between the two heroes, as is how much each one can take in at a time. There are probably more differences and things I could point out, but we can just start with this. Alpha says:" And why would you assume I don't know Apollo Buckwheat? "Because you didn't know that Apollo has absolutely no feats that put him on either Mr. Majestic's or Superman's level, so even if you were planning on backing up your statement, you couldn't. "
What feats? So you saying because a writer hasn't shown him doing the same as Majestic, he's not in his class?
Based on that logic, Luke Cage was shown going toe to toe with Wrecker so he's on Thor's level. You guys make me laugh when going by what a writer does instead of the bio of a character.
Whatever Bucky!
Alpha says:
"Spiderman beating Firelord Black Panther holding Silver Sufer in a armlock"
Bad writing. Those aren't reasonable feats.
Alpha says:
Based on that logic, Luke Cage was shown going toe to toe with Wrecker so he's on Thor's level.
Wrecker can only lift 40 tons, fully empowered. He's many times weaker than Thor is.
Static Shock says:
"Alpha says:"Spiderman beating Firelord Black Panther holding Silver Sufer in a armlock "Bad writing. Those aren't reasonable feats."
What is reasonable?
All characters have a bio based on their creator. How can a opinion be based on anything other than that? If a bio says a character can lift 50 tons and another character can only lift 10, its easy to say that the first character is stronger. Now here comes a writer who shows the weaker character lifting the same as the stronger character.
All I'm saying is that you realy can't go by what a writer has shown. For example, I've seen Thor do things that Herc hasn't in comics but his strength is no stronger based on his bio.
Alpha says:
"What is reasonable? All characters have a bio based on their creator.How can a opinion be based on anything other than that? If a bio says acharacter can lift 50 tons and another character can only lift 10, itseasy to say that the first character is stronger. Now here comes awriter who shows the weaker character lifting the same as the strongercharacter. All I'm saying is that you realy can't go by what a writerhas shown. For example, I've seen Thor do things that Herc hasn't incomics but his strength is no stronger based on his bio."
Black Panther has enhanced physical attributes. He's not superhuman, so
there's no way he can do what he did to Silver Surfer. The same goes
for Spidey. Technically, he wasn't suppose to be able to beat Firelord
in close-combat like that, simply because he was made to be weaker. Bad
writing is unreasonable because the characters aren't held to their
standards and restrictions like they should be.
As for Thor and Herc, they are both capable of lift in excess of 100
tons. In excess meaning over. They have unknown limits. That's not
saying that they are the same strength, It's saying that they lift over
the limit of 100 tons without exact knowledge of a limit. But, if Thor
is shown to be lifting more that Herc has in comics, then Thor is
stronger. Just because two characters are in the class 100, that
doesn't mean that they are equally strong. With that being said, you
have to turn to the comics as well.
Post Edited:2008-01-28 05:39:51
Static Shock says:
"Alpha says:"What is reasonable? All characters have a bio based on their creator. How can a opinion be based on anything other than that? If a bio says a character can lift 50 tons and another character can only lift 10, its easy to say that the first character is stronger. Now here comes a writer who shows the weaker character lifting the same as the stronger character. All I'm saying is that you realy can't go by what a writer has shown. For example, I've seen Thor do things that Herc hasn't in comics but his strength is no stronger based on his bio."Black Panther has enhanced physical attributes. He's not superhuman, so there's no way he can do what he did to Silver Surfer. The same goes for Spidey. Technically, he wasn't suppose to be able to beat Firelord in close-combat like that, simply because he was made to be weaker. Bad writing is unreasonable because the characters aren't held to their standards and restrictions like they should be. As for Thor and Herc, they are both capable of lift in excess of 100 tons. In excess meaning over. They have unknown limits. That's not saying that they are the same strength, It's saying that they lift over the limit of 100 tons without exact knowledge of a limit. But, if Thor is shown to be lifting more that Herc has in comics, then Thor is stronger. Just because two characters are in the class 100, that doesn't mean that they are equally strong. With that being said, you have to turn to the comics as well.
Post Edited:2008-01-28 05:39:51"
But writers are bias. Most take liberties for there story. I don't want to get off track but I saw Hulk shown in a comic holding up 100 billion tons of mountain, a feat I haven't seen Superman do since John Byrn revamped him. So based on a feat he would be stronger. I saw Black Adam beat Amazo like he was nothing when Superman (along with the league) couldn't. Another feat that someone could say BA is stronger than Superman.
Alpha says:
"But writers are bias. Most take liberties for there story. I don't wantto get off track but I saw Hulk shown in a comic holding up 100 billiontons of mountain, a feat I haven't seen Superman do since John Byrnrevamped him. So based on a feat he would be stronger. I saw Black Adambeat Amazo like he was nothing when Superman (along with the league)couldn't. Another feat that someone could say BA is stronger thanSuperman."
Yeah, they are bias. I could name plenty of instances referring to that. As for Superman (Post-Crisis), it's possibly for him to achieve the same physical feat as the Hulk did in Secret Wars. This was taken from DC Database:
Superhuman Strength: While the exact magnitude of Superman's strength is unknown, it is generally accepted that Superman is sufficiently strong to lift 100,000 tons or more. The exact specfic range is unknown as Superman's strength, like his other powers, has fluctuated over time. Superman's strength is more an act of conscious will on energy fields than actual physical strength. It is through his act of conscious will manipulation that allows Superman to engage in physical feats that are beyond merely applying applicable force such as moving a mountain top without said rock crumbling under its own mass while Superman moves it. At his theoretical maximum, fully immersed and over charged by yellow solar radiation, the DC Primary Earth Superman has been noted to be able to concentrate his will (along with additional external power controls, such as Tempest's magical abilities) into physical force enough to allow him to move Earth-moon sized planetary bodies out of their orbit [9] where after emerging from the Sun over-energized, Superman physically pushed "WarWorld" (an Earth moon sized mobile planet) across the solar system and into a boom tube. However being at that level has been directly shown to be adverse to him, and his body is unable to contain that level of energy directly for any true length of time without harmful effects. And again, this level of control and power access is not normal for him to achieve and even in this particular instance, Superman was not able to access nor contain this level solely by his own control. Superman's normal strength levels are obviously in the multi-megaton range.
As for Black Adam beating Amazo with ease, and the Justice League getting owned by Amazo... Ehh... Don't know what to say about that. That's was for the story.
Shrugs
There was a time when Superman (and the Justice League, I think) got kidnapped by White Martians. But, Batman went to go save them, and he defeated a large number of White Martians in the process, from what I've heard. Again, for the story.
Static Shock says:
"Alpha says:"But writers are bias. Most take liberties for there story. I don't want to get off track but I saw Hulk shown in a comic holding up 100 billion tons of mountain, a feat I haven't seen Superman do since John Byrn revamped him. So based on a feat he would be stronger. I saw Black Adam beat Amazo like he was nothing when Superman (along with the league) couldn't. Another feat that someone could say BA is stronger than Superman."Yeah, they are bias. I could name plenty of instances referring to that. As for Superman (Post-Crisis), it's possibly for him to achieve the same physical feat as the Hulk did in Secret Wars. This was taken from DC Database: Superhuman Strength: While the exact magnitude of Superman's strength is unknown, it is generally accepted that Superman is sufficiently strong to lift 100,000 tons or more. The exact specfic range is unknown as Superman's strength, like his other powers, has fluctuated over time. Superman's strength is more an act of conscious will on energy fields than actual physical strength. It is through his act of conscious will manipulation that allows Superman to engage in physical feats that are beyond merely applying applicable force such as moving a mountain top without said rock crumbling under its own mass while Superman moves it. At his theoretical maximum, fully immersed and over charged by yellow solar radiation, the DC Primary Earth Superman has been noted to be able to concentrate his will (along with additional external power controls, such as Tempest's magical abilities) into physical force enough to allow him to move Earth-moon sized planetary bodies out of their orbit [9] where after emerging from the Sun over-energized, Superman physically pushed "WarWorld" (an Earth moon sized mobile planet) across the solar system and into a boom tube. However being at that level has been directly shown to be adverse to him, and his body is unable to contain that level of energy directly for any true length of time without harmful effects. And again, this level of control and power access is not normal for him to achieve and even in this particular instance, Superman was not able to access nor contain this level solely by his own control. Superman's normal strength levels are obviously in the multi-megaton range. As for Black Adam beating Amazo with ease, and the Justice League getting owned by Amazo... Ehh... Don't know what to say about that. That's was for the story. *Shrugs* There was a time when Superman (and the Justice League, I think) got kidnapped by White Martians. But, Batman went to go save them, and he defeated a large number of White Martians in the process, from what I've heard. Again, for the story."
I get your point. I can see how when a reasonable feat could be used as a fact of reference. Its just hard to know when one is reasonable. I see so many people post comments during a battle and have it shot down by someone else saying bad writing. I try not to use what has been shown by writers because of the bias a lot have. Mu opinion for this battle was based on character bio, nothing more. Have I ever seen Apollo do something in the line of Superman? No. But I haven't seen Black Adam do anything as well (except hold his own against him). Is that a feat?
Static Shock says:
"Alpha says:"But writers are bias. Most take liberties for there story. I don't want to get off track but I saw Hulk shown in a comic holding up 100 billion tons of mountain, a feat I haven't seen Superman do since John Byrn revamped him. So based on a feat he would be stronger. I saw Black Adam beat Amazo like he was nothing when Superman (along with the league) couldn't. Another feat that someone could say BA is stronger than Superman."Yeah, they are bias. I could name plenty of instances referring to that. As for Superman (Post-Crisis), it's possibly for him to achieve the same physical feat as the Hulk did in Secret Wars. This was taken from DC Database: Superhuman Strength: While the exact magnitude of Superman's strength is unknown, it is generally accepted that Superman is sufficiently strong to lift 100,000 tons or more. The exact specfic range is unknown as Superman's strength, like his other powers, has fluctuated over time. Superman's strength is more an act of conscious will on energy fields than actual physical strength. It is through his act of conscious will manipulation that allows Superman to engage in physical feats that are beyond merely applying applicable force such as moving a mountain top without said rock crumbling under its own mass while Superman moves it. At his theoretical maximum, fully immersed and over charged by yellow solar radiation, the DC Primary Earth Superman has been noted to be able to concentrate his will (along with additional external power controls, such as Tempest's magical abilities) into physical force enough to allow him to move Earth-moon sized planetary bodies out of their orbit [9] where after emerging from the Sun over-energized, Superman physically pushed "WarWorld" (an Earth moon sized mobile planet) across the solar system and into a boom tube. However being at that level has been directly shown to be adverse to him, and his body is unable to contain that level of energy directly for any true length of time without harmful effects. And again, this level of control and power access is not normal for him to achieve and even in this particular instance, Superman was not able to access nor contain this level solely by his own control. Superman's normal strength levels are obviously in the multi-megaton range. As for Black Adam beating Amazo with ease, and the Justice League getting owned by Amazo... Ehh... Don't know what to say about that. That's was for the story. *Shrugs* There was a time when Superman (and the Justice League, I think) got kidnapped by White Martians. But, Batman went to go save them, and he defeated a large number of White Martians in the process, from what I've heard. Again, for the story."
Question for you.
Is Black Adam faster than Superman?
I have a thought for the original battle question. In the Arena miniseries part of Countdown, Apollo is grouped with the "Rays" of different universes. Doesn't this mean that this battle is a form of "Black Adam vs. Ray"? I can't see any Ray beating Black Adam, simply because Adam's powers are god-given/magic in nature. Doesn't magic trump solar absorption?
George Stark says:
"I have a thought for the original battle question. In the Arena miniseries part of Countdown, Apollo is grouped with the "Rays" of different universes. Doesn't this mean that this battle is a form of "Black Adam vs. Ray"? I can't see any Ray beating Black Adam, simply because Adam's powers are god-given/magic in nature. Doesn't magic trump solar absorption? "
Superman is solar absorption and he hasn't beat him.
Alpha says:
"Question for you. Is Black Adam faster than Superman? "
In the recent Justice maxi series, Superamn requested help (I think) from Capt Marvel to save the Flash as Superman recognised that Capt Marvel, channeling the speed of Hermes, is faster than Superman in Flight speed.
This is the only instance I know of this occurence but it does seem reasonable.
Capt marvel was having to concentrate to reach this level of speed (that approaching the Flashes top speed).
The_Creator says:
"Alpha says:"Question for you. Is Black Adam faster than Superman? "In the recent Justice maxi series, Superamn requested help (I think) from Capt Marvel to save the Flash as Superman recognised that Capt Marvel, channeling the speed of Hermes, is faster than Superman in Flight speed. This is the only instance I know of this occurence but it does seem reasonable. Capt marvel was having to concentrate to reach this level of speed (that approaching the Flashes top speed). "
But is Black Adam equal to Cap Marvel in speed?
Alpha says:
"But is Black Adam equal to Cap Marvel in speed? "
Yes. For all intents and purposes thair powers seem to be pretty much the same levels. There are occasional references to BA being stronger than Capt Marvel but in my mind that are the same.
Alpha says:
"Question for you.Is Black Adam faster than Superman? "
I don't know. I'm not big on Black Adam.
So basically no ones really clear on what Apollo's power level is ?
King Saturn says:
"So basically no ones really clear on what Apollo's power level is ?"
Shrugs
King Saturn says:
"So basically no ones really clear on what Apollo's power level is ?"
It depends upon the reference source.
In the comics we have seen him perform strength feats that would seem to indicate a strength level at least in the thousands to tens of thousands of tonnes (lifting objects, tearing objects apart etc).
A Wildstorm officially backed published RPG for the Authority (from Silver Age Sentinels who are now defunct) provided him wth a strength level of 1000 tonnes.
In a prior thread it was debated that this seemd low compared to his feats.
He has been shown to survive the heats and pressures of a volcano, has survived outer sun temperatures (I think), withstood punches from other super strong individuals in the Wildstorm universe without significant harm, he has flown halfway round the world in 30 or so seconds, cauterised half of the moons surface with wide angled laser vision and flown in to the ground/bedrock of Washington DC at high speed (arounf 1/2 mile from the White House) and caused a tremor at the White House. However he has used all his entire energy reserves by over taxing himself without direct exposure to the sun (for his solar energy absorbtion to occur).
He has been shown (in a What if style way comic) to be killed by flying at high speeds in the force field type shields that protected the old Storm Watch space station.
The_Creator says:
"has survived outer sun temperatures (I think)"
You are correct, sir! Apollo enjoys long walks on the surface of the sun.
Has anyone ever seen Apollo face a Superman level character? Black Adam has faced at least 10 characters on par with Superman, and has beaten most of them at some point. Apollo has been known to run out of energy to often for me to pick him over Adam. Adam has enough speed, invulnerability, and experience against other powerhouses to survive Apollo's best assaults , until Apollo runs out of juice. Great fight, but It's easy to see Adam winning after about 10 hours of intense battle. After the sun starts to set, It's over for Apollo.
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