Apocalypse and Abomination vs Dr Doom

Apocalypse and Abomination

VS

Dr Doom

Rules

• 616 versions of characters.
• Basic knowledge of each other.
• Apocalypse and Abomination aren't jobbing.
• Doom is morals off.
• Win by any means.
• Battle takes in a empty Russian city.

Rounds

Round 1: No magic. Round 2: Magic is allowed.

Thoughts on this battle

Doom likely wins tbh

@professorrespect: Round 1 and 2?

team without prep Apocalypse solos

@comic_book_fan: Any reason why?

he is physically stronger faster more advanced tec and now has displayed magical abilities if Doom has prep he can overcome these easily but in a random fight i think Apocalypse just over whelms him quickly

It's easier for round 2 considering Doom can just pull out more hax. Round 1 ain't easy, but Doom still has enough tech to beat the pair with not a ton of effort.

Nur can solo round 1 as Abomination is a brute that really offers nothing to help out his team, round 2 could go either way since without prep Doom won't be able to do crazy things to instant win.

Team both rds

Duo unless Doom BFR's them.

@hellionvulcan: How does Abomination offer nothing? Blonsky is the MVP here, not Nur.

I have yet to read Professor's entire RT of Doom yet, but I think he has a chance thanks to his versatility and draining if he has a device like that with him. Round 2 he can definitely win if he uses magic.

duo

Hilarious considering Nur is the only one that has the ability to counter Doom's magic while Blonsky doesn't, He's a one dimension brute and those never last long against Doom even more so when Doom isn't restricted for round 2.

@hellionvulcan

When has Apocalypse countered magic on the same level as people like Dr Doom? by 'one dimensional brutes' do you mean people like Hulk or Thing? if you do, they've done pretty decent against him. Doom even struggles with Ben a lot and even loses to him on most occasions.

Tho we don't yet know all the context, Apoc seemed to have overwhelmed Morgan Le Fey(whom iirc has overwhelmed Doom with magic), and who says she draws all her power(magic) from Otherworld, a place outside the Muitiverse where some of the most powerful magicians in the 'Omniverse' dwell or once dwelt.. i.e Merlin!

Also to mention that Otherworld is gathering all its power(which I assume is primarily magic) for a confrontation with Apocalypse and the mutants...even the Omniversal Majestrix seems to know fear once APoc showed them lips in Otherworld.

u ended the debate, Apocalypse wins

@turtletortoise: Apocalypse is still inferior in terms of stats to Dr Doom and Abomination. So no debate is ended and Apocalypse is not soloing.

@noobmaster2001:He just explained Apocalypse > Morgaine > Doctor Doom, yet u say Apocalypse stats suck just cause

It's what he is doing now in the Excalibur run as what happens when Nur enters a magical realm with magical powered beings who the Excalibur team are struggling with.

Nur's celestial tech negates magic as it is what allowed War Hulk to hurt Juggernaut so magic is not a concern to him in the slightest. The problem you don't seem to realize is that only two people in this fight can teleport so Abomination can easily be bfr from the fight entirely which leaves Nur to fight alone.

What stats are you referring to ? as strength wise - Nur would be the strongest, i mean he has over powered thor and fought two thors at the same time and was winning in each encounter, striking feats - would go to the duo, durability wise again Nur would be the best out of this lot, energy blasts/powers - tie between Doom and Nur, Fighting skills it's hard to say but i think duo has Doom beat there, so i really don't know what stats you could really talk about that makes Nur inferior.

@turtletortoise: Nah Apocalypse is below Dr Doom because he his best feat is cheapshotting a young drunk Thor and that's it. He ran away from Namor, struggled with Ikarius and has barely any good feats.

@noobmaster2001: X-Factor + Inhumans vs Apocalypse & Stryfe vs Apocalypse

Low balling isn't a good debating tactic as Nur has better feats than his moment with young Thor (whom he fought three times now) and i don't recall Nur struggling with Ikarus either since Ikarus couldn't do anything to harm Nur. He ran away from Namor due to plot as by feats Nur would have destroyed him with his energy attacks since we all saw how well Namor did against Hyperion's optic blast.

lmao how is Apocalypse above Morgan Le Fay if they never fought?

If i remember correctly it was Jamie Braddock (a whole reality warper) who enslaved her

Doom high diff

We still don't know the full context...

But, what we do know that's put on panel, is that the power in Apocs old bones were powerful enough to breach Morgans Otherworld(Avalon) enhanced magical powered barrier.

Non jobbing Nur wins round 1. Abomination is a distraction at best.

Not sure about round 2.

@hellionvulcan: What stats are you referring to ? as strength wise - Nur would be the strongest, i mean he has over powered thor and fought two thors at the same time and was winning in each encounter, striking feats - would go to the duo, durability wise again Nur would be the best out of this lot, energy blasts/powers - tie between Doom and Nur, Fighting skills it's hard to say but i think duo has Doom beat there, so i really don't know what stats you could really talk about that makes Nur inferior.

He cheap shotted a young, drunk Thor who was nowhere near as strong as regular Thor. He wasn't winning against two thor's, he was losing. Even the narration was implying that Apocalypse was outmatched. Abomination being able to fight with the Hulk loads of times and be capable of hurting him is better than Apocalypse's striking too. All Apocalypse has against Hulk is a showing where Hulk was weakened and dying and that's about it. Nur isn't better durability wise either, the same showing where he fights Thor, Thor dents his armor with a axe that isn't even enchanted and both Abomination and Doom have taken hits from from heavyweights like Savage Hulk, Namor, and Thing. Doom's energy beams have hurt more durable characters than Apocalypse has like Ironman, Namor, Hulk, Thing, Silver Surfer etc

Nur's celestial tech negates magic as it is what allowed War Hulk to hurt Juggernaut so magic is not a concern to him in the slightest. The problem you don't seem to realize is that only two people in this fight can teleport so Abomination can easily be bfr from the fight entirely which leaves Nur to fight alone.

Abomination doesn't have a defense to BFR yes, but what I'm arguing is that Apocalypse is inferior to Abomination and Doom in terms of stats. I doubt Doom is going to bfr Abomination aswell and is probably going to either try to knock him out with blasts or use some versatile tech like draining.

Low balling isn't a good debating tactic as Nur has better feats than his moment with young Thor (whom he fought three times now) and i don't recall Nur struggling with Ikarus either since Ikarus couldn't do anything to harm Nur. He ran away from Namor due to plot as by feats Nur would have destroyed him with his energy attacks since we all saw how well Namor did against Hyperion's optic blast.

I'm not low balling, he had a fight with a young, drunk Thor and was losing to two thor's, that's not exactly impressive. Apocalypse doesn't have the feats to contend with these two. Apocalypse and Ikarius traded blows for a few pages (with Apocalypse even avoiding his heat vision) Ikarius isn't exactly that impressive either, he got stomped by the Cosmic Hulk which people like the Thing back in the 80s beat. Hyperion's optic blasts are beat based which Namor is weak to. Apocalypse's blasts aren't heat based so I don't see how this is relevant. I reread the issue and Apocalypse didn't run away from Namor because of plot, I've seen you arguing for Nur to be far above people like Hulk so surely he could have just ended Namor easily and would have had no reason to run away?

@turtletortoise: IIRC Apocalypse was amping himself by baby cable there and Stryfe isn't really that impressive so no idea where you're going with that.

The panel states that Apoc was RE-ENERGIZING, which kinda tells us that he wasn't at full power at the time! IMO

Take that as you will! ;)

Where he was tanking attacks from Black Bolt and Cyclops? even if he was at full power (and not amped like he was there) him tanking attacks from Black Bolt isn't good writing since his voice has fodderized more powerful characters.

Fair enough for me..

If 'isn't good writing' is your rebuttal, then I'm content with where we stand here!

I'd rather not push forward on debating opinions about writing! ;)

@cosmic_reign: Apocalypse is honestly like a low high tier in strength at best, so I don't think he should be beating Black Bolt in h2h, muchless tanking an attack that even guys like Sentry were afraid of.

Apocalypse isn't soloing and Blonsky is stronger than Apocalypse too.

@noobmaster2001:

With no prep, BFR or magic, what is Doom bringing to Apoc?

Physically stronger, maybe. But Apocalypse can also alter his strength. He’d be dumb to try to blow for blow Abomination. He has like 5 other talents that Blonsky doesn’t have. So if he’s not jobbing, I’d go Apoc all the way.

@dre_savage: Doom has more fire power, strength, durability etc

Abomination is also stronger than Apocalypse and has better durability, Apocalypse can alter his strength but his overall base stats are the worst here and he normally doesn’t do that and normally fights like a brick. Apocalypse just isn’t as good as people make him out to be and honestly a lot of his best feats are taken out of context or misinterpreted.

Doom wins round 2 but loses the first.

Apocalypse is likewise not as bad as people make him out to be!

I'll be glad to attempt to contextualize your so called "misinterpreted context" on Apocs feats.

@cosmic_reign: I’ve heard arguments for him being able to give Thanos a hard time, being able to contend and beat people like Immortal Hulk, Thor, Thing etc It depends on what arguments you have heard from people, but usually the ones I’ve seen that show how Apocalypse is overrated is usually pretty accurate.

People usually use the showing of him restraining Hulk to show that he’s stronger than Hulk, yet Hulk at the time was weakened and dying. People claim he nearly one shotted Thor, but don’t mention/know that was a young, drunk and unworthy Thor. People say he fought and was winning against two Thor’s, yet he was on the losing end and the narration even states he’s outmatched etc

Team.

1st paragraph is pretty much opinion based, except for Thor which direct on-panel encounters(even vs multiple Thors including Worthy Jane) has shown us that Apoc is capable of battling and convincingly hold his own vs Thor(s).

I can't/won't argue for Apoc vs Thanos...I just would love to see them 2 together(in action) on panel with dialog. But tbf, Apocalypse did make it on Thanos's list of powerful entities that needed constant monitoring! Heh

That's an impressive list! Just look at the company Thanos places Apocalypse with!!

I don't recall if Hulk was dying but, he certainly was on a higher level than his base. Either way, AP put him in check.

The thing about young, drunk, unworthy and whatever additional adjectives you wanna use to help ease the sting of his defeat... Thor even came back sober and bloodlused for revenge with blessed Axe, and still Apoc showed superiority catching his Axe at point blank range and tossing it back injuring Thor with very little effort. Apocalypse knew Thor couldn't hurt him, so regrettably and unware, AP allowed Thor to get in a hit with blessed Jarnbjorn!

Bad choice for Apocalypse! ;)

@cosmic_reign: I’m just stating what I’ve heard people say on comicvine, the point I’m trying to make is that Apocalypse is overrated on this site. Thor at the time was a lot weaker than worthy Thor and not being able to one shot him with a cheap shot is pretty embarrassing. Skurge the executioner is a regular Thor villain and he’s KO’d a stronger Thor with a sucker punch and yet when they fought he was shown to be inferior. That axe wasn’t enchanted and Thor damaged his armor too, this was still unworthy Thor too.

That’s an interesting list, but honestly the difference in power there is tremendous, Thanos has guys like Beyonder, Galactus there and Apocalypse being one of the biggest threats becomes pretty meaningless when you look at his feats, he’s not really even a high tier most of the time so it doesn’t really make sense if he’s a threat to someone like Thanos.

Hulk at the time was weakened and got impaled by a street sign and lost to a T-Rex, Apocalypse holding him isn’t that great.

Him doing well against Thor is no mean fight, but once again the fact that he was drunk unworthy and weaker than normal Thor aswell as the fact it was a cheap shot means it’s not as great as it sounds. He still lost to two Thor’s too.

2 is the key, when its Odinson and Worthy Jane.

OT

I'm staying with Team ftw...

he is high tier you guys just nitpic to try to underrate him because he does have low showings namor is still one of the strongest beings on the planet he is right below thor hercules and ben strength wise and running from him was bad writting and you also forget he also oneshotted namor in another fight that was his lowest showing and you realize namor gives Doom trouble on average obviously Doom beats namor most of the time but there would be a decent fight there where Apocalypse ran from a table lol in one fight which was completely out of character.

then in another fight against namor he oneshotted him.

now the thor fights he fought thor who i bet is drunk for lots of his battles lol he is a viking god you know that has little effect on his power right and thor is like in his 20 while he is usually like his 30's lol some people are stronger in there 20's but young thor obviously isn't but he still is plenty strong and he didn't dent apocalypse's armor he gave it friction burn that went away quickly and he was toying with thor you act like he was trying his best to barley defeat a young thor he was barely trying and the fight wasn't close even when thor sobered up and had his cheat spell on the axe Apocalypse literally had to let thor hit him with it for thor to win and jane had some good feats in her own right and she was knocked around and even restrained with ease and he lost off pannel and never used anything but physicals no tk no teleporting no forcefields nothing stray energy blasts and strength

Poor Apocalypse

Poor Abomination

@comic_book_fan: he is high tier you guys just nitpic to try to underrate him because he does have low showings

Based on what I've seen Apocalypse would be a low high tier at best. I'm not trying to underrate or nitpic Apocalypse, it's the truth that he's not as good as users on this site make him out to be. People either look at his best feats, misinterpret them or just go off reputation on CV.

namor is still one of the strongest beings on the planet he is right below thor hercules and ben strength wise and running from him was bad writting and you also forget he also oneshotted namor in another fight that was his lowest showing and you realize namor gives Doom trouble on average obviously Doom beats namor most of the time but there would be a decent fight there where Apocalypse ran from a table lol in one fight which was completely out of character.

Apocalypse didn't run away from Namor because of plot, nowhere is that stated. He was clearly outmatched by Namor and had to leave. Apocalypse punched Namor and Kluh through a wall and that's it, they weren't KO'd and even if he did one shot Namor it would be an outlier because he's consistently not even a high tier. Namor does give Doom trouble, but Namor would beat Apocalypse handily so I don't see how this matters. Namor has tons of showings that put him as a consistent high tier, while Nur has barely any.

then in another fight against namor he oneshotted him

Are you talking about a different instance then the one above? are you talking about House of M? because if you are, that's non canon and he was one shotted by a whisper from Black Bolt.

now the thor fights he fought thor who i bet is drunk for lots of his battles lol he is a viking god you know that has little effect on his power right and thor is like in his 20 while he is usually like his 30's lol some people are stronger in there 20's but young thor obviously isn't but he still is plenty strong

Where is it stated that alcohol has no effect on Thor? Thor at the time was still a lot weaker since he couldn't even lift mjolnir and the fact that Apocalypse didn't even KO Thor too isn't great, like I mentioned above guys who aren't even as strong as Thor like Skurge the executioner has knocked out Thor with a sucker punch (a stronger and worthy Thor) so Nur not doing it to a weaker Thor doesn't place him close to regular Thor or any solid high tier.

he didn't dent apocalypse's armor he gave it friction burn that went away quickly and he was toying with thor you act like he was trying his best to barley defeat a young thor he was barely trying and the fight wasn't close even when thor sobered up

Unworthy Thor fought Nur again along with Jane and tanked a hit from him while he was in his giant form. Apocalypse being able to even contend with Thor isn't consistent at all, he hasn't done really anything impressive. He ran away from Namor, struggled with Ikarius, lost to Jane Foster and a weaker Thor and regularly struggles with teams of X-men and even individual mutants too.

jane had some good feats in her own right and she was knocked around and even restrained with ease and he lost off pannel

He was in his giant form when he was holding her, so his strength was greater than it was at his base. It wasn't really all that much of a fight either all he did was tank a hit from Jane while he was much stronger than usual and had his punch shrugged off by Unworthy Thor. Apocalypse was giant during this encounter too so his strength was much higher, he did end up losing to them off panel with the narration even stating he was outmatched. This is probably Apocalypse's best feat too and his other consistent feats fail to live up to this too.

and never used anything but physicals no tk no teleporting no forcefields

He really never bothers to use those and always brawls like a brick. The chances of him doing that here are unlikely.

It was two Thor's yes, but context is important. It was a much weaker Thor, he still ended up losing, Apocalypse was gigantic and stronger than usual too. Like I said above, this is only one of his better showings and he really doesn't have consistent feats to suggest he can give solid high tiers problems.

What's the important context that we haven't already discussed?

And this is the same Jane that bled Odin pretty badly! Lol

You're either sprung on Thor or just hate Apocalypse, but there's clearly enough evidence that shows Apocalypse can tangle with multiple Thors on-panel, even if he ultimately loses off panel!

OT

Team wins...Apocalypse MVP