Anyone Else NOT Convinced Prime IW Thor Would Beat Endgame Thanos?

Hela isn't skilled though. When she stomped the Asgardian army it had very little to do with skill but her spamming her swords.

And I guess any other characters fighting don't display skill either, they just spam punches right? You're argument would make a lot more sense if Hela stood in the same spot just throwing swords. The entire scene she's moving through attacks, dodging and countering. Evening engaging multiple enemies at one time in close proximity without using her swords.

Also I don't remember Thor actually being more skilled than Hela in their Throne Room fight or even the bridge fight. She really just overpowered him by throwing or getting into grapples with him. Thor just kinda swung Gungir or threw it. And later with his lighting and sword he didn't display much skill either. He tagged her but displaying skill? Eh.

Thor landed a lot more hits than Hela and parried/countered a lot of her strikes.... that's outskilling her. And what do you consider skill? Cool choreography? And how didn't he skill using the sword? He even did a move which is "half-swording" (among other names) where you attack with the hilt of the sword for a more blunt attack. He did this while still holding his sword the normal giving both a piercing and blunt attack capability. Someone who is "unskilled" would be able to effectively do that or even know to do that. So I ask you again, what do you consider "displaying skill"?

Doesn't really matter though. Lightning is lighting and Loki was unharmed. His lighting didn't even come close to touching either Cap or Tony in Endgame. Like I said, Thor has complete control over his lightning. Thor's lighting could harmrd Iron Man's suit when he powered him up but it didn't.

You're exactly right, Thor has complete control over lightning which means he can control the intensity. You're really shooting yourself in the foot right now. If Thor summons lightning to armor himself, (which he was doing in the scenes we're referencing) and characters like Steve are able to be near then obviously that isn't lightning strong enough to bother Thanos or Hela. What would be the point in spamming lightning not strong enough to bother them? The blast that effected Hela was massive and would easily destroy or hurt his teammates around him if he did it in close proximity to them. So back to the original point, Thor spamming that would've been stupid and not spamming it is smart on his part.

For the reasons I've already mentioned. Also if they're staying back behind Thor or even next to him they definitely aren't getting harmed.

If they stand anywhere near this blast, (the one we're referring to) they're either dead or close to dead.

He literally has to rely on Surtur because he gave up. He was too dumb to realize his lighting was actually hurting Hela.

His lightning only momentarily took her out of the fight, it clearly couldn't keep her down. Beating her himself was out of he and his team's power so instead just trying the samething over and over again and expecting a different result (which is technically insanity) he did the only thing he could do to stop her right there and stop her from going to other realms. He says in the movie if they don't stop her there she'll go ravage other worlds. They couldn't stop her and would've likely died trying which would've been pointless. So why not use Surtur to take her out? That was smart on his part.

Thor didn't pin her down because she was already down. He just made her fall to the water.

Knocking someone down and pinning them down (keeping them from getting up) is different. Valk knocked her down and Thor pinned her down and knocked her down further. I mean, someone has to already be down in order to be pinned down in the first place.

Yes Carol did move. Watch the scene and then slow it down. It's an option they have on YouTube, you can do that.

This is no selling in my book.

And with you being in the right state of mind, you should never compare that to this

No Thanos didn't take any visible damage but he clearly go rocked by the attack and ragdolled quite a few meters.

You brought up Thor could have attacked again with Thanos being on the ground and he clearly can't because Thanos in IW got up within a second before Thor could do anything.

Watch the video above, as Thanos is getting up Thor is already in the process of launching SB. There wouldn't have been anything for gemless Thanos to do if Thor kept the lightning going until he got closer.

As far as Thor is aware Thanos no-sells lighting.

But has shown to be ragdolled and knocked off his on two separate occasions and both times opened up opportunities for his attacker to follow up with another attack. If you have the ability to throw your opponent off balance and even knock them down is a massive advantage in almost any combat situation.

Thanos not being able to react to lighting doesn't matter when it doesn't have any effect on him. Thor nor Cap can actually hurt Thanos with lighting. In fact, Thanos was literally waving his arms around when Cap's lighting was on top of him and then proceeded to dodge his hammer strike. Thor hitting Thanos with it won't do anything because Thanos gets up way to fast.

Tired of repeating myself but clearly it has an effect on him, if it didn't he wouldn't be moved at all. And "waving his hands" means nothing. You'll wave your hands while falling out of the sky but that doesn't mean you can stop yourself from falling. If Cap kept the lightning going how was Thanos going to get up?

You can move your hands when you're being choked. You cannot do it when you have some 8ft alien forcing you to use both hands to stop your own weapon from cleaving you. Again, not comparable at all.

Except for the fact that Thor doesn't need to wave his hands or move to summon lightning. Against Hela his hands were pinned down by her blades while he was getting choked, which had him in a worst position than he was in against Thanos. Even after the scene with Hela he called down 2 bolts of lightning while jumping through the air and choking a Berserker. Long story short, Thor doesn't need to move his arms to summon lightning, and has shown he can summon lightning while under duress and in the heat of combat. So there's no reason why he didn't at least attempt to use lightning when Thanos was trying to stab him.

Don't bother doing that. You already lost me once I saw "tie in comic".

How are you lost because I said "tie in comic"? MCU has released a number of tie in comics that canon and directly tie into the filmverse. They numerous "prelude" tie in comics which act as quick recaps and show things that happened while the camera was somewhere. It's how we get to scene the story War Machine told in AOU about the tank, and it's how we know MCU T'Challa is a legit bullet-timer. If you don't want to accept the showings that's fine, but they're canon and will continue to be used.

The directors clearly said "Thor could not wield the gauntlet in THIS movie" and that implied he was weaker.

You people do realize the only reason why Hulk held the gauntlet and Thor did not is because he can absorb gamma radiation, which reduced the damage? He would have died otherwise so that does not prove anything. Not fighting for half a decade means nothing to someone who is 1.500 years old and fought ever since he was a boy, and Iron Man died from Infinity Stones so it is not like Thor is suddenly Tony tier because the latter never survived. Every other statement was psychological. Nothing more.

Most characters in the MCU aren't skilled. Really only super soldiers and people below them are skilled. The rest don't have to rely on skill but can use their strength or other powers to win fights. The others don't have that advantage.

Wow you’re close minded when it comes to skill. What I described Thor doing with the swords is clear example of skill. That’s a real life sword technique used to get through an armored enemy when slashing techniques didn’t work. Thor using that technique mid combat while also using his other blade as a bladed weapons his skill, technique and battle prowess.

Hela is spinning around and just throwing her swords. Again, there is no skill going on in that scene. I mean what did she do when her and Hogun had a little 1V1? Just spammed her swords until he got to close and she kicked him.

She used her swords to keep the larger crowds and fought the smaller groups 3-4 close range. There’s more than once instance during that fight she’s using her swords as melee weapons and fighting CQC. Again, you’re really narrow minded when it comes to skill. You seem to only be impressed with flashy choreography ignoring everything else.

I've already told you what I considered skill about 3 replies ago. If you actually paid attention you wouldn't need to ask me this again.

My guy, this was you’re vague response to that question that makes zero sense. “I get impressed if street levels beat anybody by the way they execute what they want to do.” So what you’re saying the way a character does what they want to do is what you determine as skill? So if a character wants to throw a kick and ”executes” throwing a kick you see that as skill? So when Thor wants to do a hammer strike and “executes” a hammer strike is that not skill? Or does your warped perception of skill only applies to street level characters? If a Character A can fight Characters B, C and D all at the same time and land more hits than all of his enemies combined,

then Character A clearly outskilled them. Especially if Character A is not massively faster to the point Characters B, C and D are in slow motion and if Character A’s not using their strength just to overpower and toss Character’s B, C and D around.

Which is my point. In regards to Loki he was unharmed. In regards to Cap and Tony the lighting didn't even come near him showing complete mastery of how close he wants it to be to someone. If he were to do his big lighting bolt on Hela he actually would only need to summon the bolt that knocked her off the balcony. The rest of that lighting was for show that did nothing to Hela, it didn't even come near her.

You’re going in circles with your argument. We know Thor has mastery over lightning to the point he can control the intensity of the blast, yes? So that answers why he can summon lightning to armor up and not hurt people around him. Thanos is strong character, yes? Therefore Thor would need a strong lightning bolt to affect him him, yes? Then if he’s summoning a bolt strong enough to hurt Thanos then obviously characters nearby with weaker durability will get hurt. Again, the bolt he used on Hela was massive as it engulfed the Palace and you can google a picture of MCU Asgard and see just how huge the palace is. Just being near a bolt that powerful would be too much for weaker characters like Cap and in regards to Ragnarok, the Asgardians who he was trying to protect, that were not too far from him on the bridge. It’s common sense.

So no, Thor is a idiot for not spamming lighting. If you see someone is out of the fight from your lighting you don't just give up because they come back, you keep doing it.

I feel like I’m talking to a wall. Pay attention to how huge that lightning bolt was, look how close Valk, Loki, Korg, Heimdall, and the Asgardians were and then ask again why Thor didn’t spam the lightning that was strong to knock Hela out.

I mean look at their bridge fight. What happened to his lighting he displayed on fodder? What happened to his cloak that rag dolled the fodder? What happened to his 3 lighting bolts he summoned at once that took out fodder? Where was that lighting at? He just forget (yes)?

Come on man did you even watch the fight scene? Lol. He turns the lightning cloak on as soon he and Valk start to engage Hela. He shot various lightning bolts from his sword at her and used his cloak to block/destroy some of her blades he through at her. After channeling lightning in his sword to knock Hela up he then extended the lightning from his sword like a whip and knocked Hela back down. And then he used lightning from the sky to pin Hela down and take her out long enough for Surtur to fully rise and for them to get to the ship. Are you sure you’re remembering the scenes correctly? I’ve posted videos above for reference.

Thor never says anything about her ravaging other worlds.

You’re not remembering the film correctly, this scene is apart of the video I posted above. Time stamp 4 mins 35 secs. Valk says they just need to hold her off and Thor mentions how if they don’t stop her she’ll grow more powerful and hunt them down. Hela mentioned repeatedly she wanted to finish conquering the cosmos. If you pay attention to the movie everything is laid out for you.

Just face it, Thor gave up and had to rely on an enemy of Asgard destroying Asgard because he's stupid.

Thor nor any of his companions could beat Hela. Do you really think it’s smart to just spam big lightning and potentially hurt your teammates when you already know for a fact that same attack even keep your enemy down permanently? And you think it’s smart to do this, dragging on the fight knowing Hela grows more powerful the longer she’s on Asgard? lol you don’t see anything wrong with this at all? This really seems like the smart thing to do?

Except Hela was still down by the time Thor even got ready to summon a bolt. She was making no attempts to get up. That was solely a Valkyrie feat, Thor's feat was destroying the bridge with one bolt.

He didn’t give Hela time to react or get to get up, that’s how he pinned her down this all happened with milliseconds of each other. Someone has to already be on the ground in order to pin them down. Valk, got her down and Thor did the rest. The visuals are posted above.

And yet he got up within a second. Like I said, none of these characters can control their weight. They can't help if they get pushed back or not. A no-sell is essentially acting like it never happened. Both were no-sells.

If you think Thanos’s reaction to Thor’s lightning in IW and Cap’s lightning in EG is comparable to how Carol took Thanos headbutt we no longer have anything to discuss on topic and agree to disagree. It makes sense why anyone with a rational would thing that.

And Thor would have one shot Thanos if Thanos stayed on the ground but he didn't. He got up to fast before Thor could even fully throw it. You're just making my case.

I’m not even sure what case you’re attempting to make here. You do realize Thor would’ve one shotted him if he aimed for his head right? Which means the lightning threw Thanos off balance enough to Thor get an opening for a kill shot. That proves my entire stance on this particular matter.

Except Thor never saw Captain America hit Thanos with lighting, I literally already went over this. Thor can only judge how lighting effects Thanos by his own eyes. And in his eyes Thanos no-sells it.

Why does Thor need to see Cap knock Thanos off his feet with lightning when he did the EXACT SAME THING 5 YEARS AGO? We’re literally talking about it right now. You’re not making any sense at this point, you have to trolling now lol.

What you would be saying would be correct if Thanos didn't counter before Thor did. Like what aren't you getting? Thor was already in the motion of throwing Stormbreaker and Thanos still managed to turn around, raise his arm and fire an infinity beam before Stormbreaker even left his hands. Thanos no-sells Thor's lighting and is too quick to get hit by a counter before he counters himself.

How is Thanos too quick to get hit when he literally got hit in the chest? Lmao. You HAVE to be trolling now lol you can’t be serious?

It clearly doesn't. Getting knocked on your ass doesn't mean jack.

So why you score points for knock downs in boxing? Why is it always a big deal when a fighters gets knocked down in a UFC match? Let me put it like this.... if you are fighting someone and they knock you on ya ass are not at a disadvantage? Are you not open to get stomped on or for the person to get on top of you and start punching you in your face? Have you never been in a fight or done any sort of contact sport at least?

Except he does. Look at when he summons his lighting on Hela on the balcony. He stretches out his entire hands to summon it.

No Thor's arms were pinned down, his hands were completely moveable. For someone who sends videos how don't you see this?

What are you watching? One arm is pinned down by knives and the her is being held by Hela, so no he could t move his arms. His was far more damaged than he was against Thanos and a lot more vulnerable and was still able to summon his most power lightning blast on screen.

And his arms/hands are in the same position when he calls down the lightning. And when he summons lightning against the Berserkers he’s holding one by the throat and isn’t moving his other hand at all. Since Mjolnir was only a tool for and not his source he was able to make rain stop in The Dark World by just looking up. Even lightning off his cloaked attacked Berserkers behind him he wasn‘t even looking at. So as I said above and back to my point, there was no reason for Thor to summon lightning and catch Thanos off guard with a bolt to the back or at least activate his cloak.

And the tie-in comics they released have scenes that didn't happen. For example in IW's tie-in Thanos one shot Hulk. That did not happen in IW at all. So yes, you lost me once you mentioned "tie-in" comic.

If you‘re referring to Endgame Prelude #1 then no, Thanos did not one shot. They shorten their to go over what we‘ve already seen and even still it’s obviously more than a one shot. And you cannot accept tie in’s if you don’t want to, they’re canon and have been consistently used on this site in debates. If you don’t like it, oh well. I never said you have change your way of thinking or stance, you tagged me first. And in all honestly you HAVE to be trolling and bravo for reeling me in.

Hela doesn't have armor on. If I were to accept that as skill, that's all you got?

Except Hela does have on armor lmao. Even her cape is armored seeing as she used it to protect herself from projectiles. Also, he used that move on the Berserkers, did you not watch the video I posted?

All she did was either throw the swords or have both in her hands and just spin and slash.

If she was just spinning and slashing how did none of her attacks miss? That would take skill.

Choreography is a good way of showing skill, so why wouldn't I be impressed if scenes have that?

Going solely off choreography would be one dimensional and a faulty way to judge skill. For example..... Being able to defend and attack multiple featless enemies at once is a better skill showing than having a nice looking fight against a single featless person. Using certain moves like what Thor did with the sword or something like utilizing pressure points mid combat is a good indicator of skill. You’re basically saying “Oooo that fight looks nice, they’re skilled”. Terrible.

Then I told you go watch the Batroc vs Captain America fight. Actually just watch any Captain America if you wanna see skill.

I’ve argued that’s a great skill showing for Cap multiple times on this very site already. Please tell me what you see in that fight that indicates skill. As I said above it seems to me you just like a pretty fight.

Thanos isn't a street level character and yet he displayed skill during the Hulk fight by targeting pressure points consistently. Wasn't just swinging his arms around violently like Hulk would and does.

Thanos is shown to be stronger than Hulk. You just said in a previous post that if the character is stronger than their opponent it’s not skill they’re using their strength. Do your views change to fit your argument? You’ve been doing a lot of back tracking and switching up.

That would just make character A faster than B, C and D.

With them all being regular people just being faster wouldn’t be enough. We‘ll have to just agree to disagree on this.

No because he's not aiming for them he'd be aiming for Thanos or a Hela. If they are staying away from him they aren't getting hurt.

His “aim” has nothing to do with it and we’re talking about Thanos right now. You said he was stupid for not spamming tbe lightning it took to KO Hela. I said that lightning is too powerful to spam and could hurt his teammates. Aim Has nothing to do with a blast that powerful, the aoe of that attack would’ve hurt Valk, Heimdall and probably taken out the ship too. If you’re only rebuttal to this is ”he has good aim” there’s no further reason to debate this topic.

And I just said he only needs to summon the bolt that actually hit Hela, not the other lighting that was for show.

That was not for show, it was the aoe of the attack. Same thing when he did the lightning slam in IW.

Again, you clearly don't know what I'm talking about. This is the lighting bolt that hit Hela http://imgur.com/a/bxrkD1p. Not the small bolts the big one. He could and should have used that bolt when Hela was walking towards him but we know he didn't because we know he's dumb.

Those bolts are apart of the AoE. And if Thor did that then what? Hela regenerates and comes back in another 5 mins them what? You’re calling a character dumb for not doing something that the character knows would be pointless because you say otherwise? HIS MOST POWERFUL LIGHTNING BLAST ISN'T STRONG ENOUGH TO BEAT HER. If he knows its not enough to stop why keep doing? You keep dancing around this question and just keep replying with “he’s dumb”. If you truly believe that continuing to do something you know won’t work is actually smart then the debate on this topic ends here.

Why are you mentioning Loki, Korg, Heimdall and the rest? They weren't even close to Thor and definitely not Hela who quite a bit away from Thor as she was walking towards him.

The ship and those who I mentioned were right behind Thor and the group as they were fighting. She even had them stuck there for awhile with her spikes.

And yet why did he not ragdoll her with it? He showed he could do that did he not? Where was the 3 lighting bolts he used on the fodder? Most of what you said in regards to his cloak and sword is just what he did defensively, not offensively which is what I'm harping on.

I’m not sure why he didn’t, maybe because bolt of that caliber wouldn’t have harmed Hela, they weren’t even strong enough to break through the bifrost like the bolt was he used at the end. And it’s not like he wasn’t using lightning at all, he was spamming it in melee tbh. His cloak attacking people without him looking counts as defensive and offensive sooo what are you talking about? And you were never harping on him focusing on offense. You’re whole argument is that he fought dumb in Ragnarok, that’s what we’re debating. Only focusing offense with a person person stronger than you, has regen and can’t be stopped by your strongest attack is stupid as hell. As I’ve said above, we can just end this topic here, pointless argument being too circular.

Yeah, that says nothing about ravaging other worlds. He said "hunt them down" meaning him and other Asgardian's. Hela said she wants to conquer other world's, Thor did not.

Yeah and she said it to Thor And everyone else lol. And you’re ignoring him saying they have to stop her there. And the only way that team could accomplish that was let Surtur loose who could actually defeat her.

Yes because Thor wouldn't be hurting Hela. Both times he called down lighting he KO'd her. He could have beaten her no doubt about it.

If it didn’t do so when he did it why would it KO her because you say it would? Lol. His knows his abilities, he knows his best attack didn’t keep her down for long. You’re saying otherwise with no proof. You haven’t backed your standing with anything yet.

Stronger doesn't mean more durable.

Great counter.

Hela wasn't making any attempts to get up. She got knocked down, looked up, and watched Thor KO her.

He didn’t give her a chance to get up.... that’s what being pinned down is ??‍♂️

I've already said it's comparable. Like why is it now taking you this long to say "agree to disagree"? I've had 4+ replies saying it's comparable.

Because I thought maybe you haven’t viewed the scene in awhile and once you saw it again you’d see how foolish what you were saying was.

But he didn't aim for his head.

But this isn’t the point here. The point here is lightning can be used on Thanos to throw him off balance to make an opening for a kill which would’ve happened if Thor aimed for the head. Now you could say Thor was dumb for that, but that’s not what we’re debating on this line.

Because you just brought up Thanos and lighting on two separate occasions for your argument. Read your comment, my little friend.

You don’t format you’re responses to indicate what exactly you’re replying too.

Stormbreaker hit Thanos in the chest only because Thanos refused to drop his infinity stone beam. It had nothing with Thor being faster Thanos already proved he is faster seconds before, it had to do with Thanos own stupidity when he should have realized Stormbreaker was cutting through the beam.

Omg..... we’re not debating who’s faster, who cares right now. The topic is if Thanos can be thrown off balance with lightning, that’s it. And that’s literally what happened TWICE, why are you still arguing against it?

Are these fictional characters boxers of UFC fighters?

Why would them being fictional character matter? This to show how important being dropped in a fight is.

Only becomes a disadvantage if it takes you a long time to get up or counter. Thor's lighting clearly didn't do any of those two things. It's not hard to grasp this.

If this was true Thor wouldn’t have been able to follow up with the chest shot and Cap wouldn’t have been able to follow up with a second attack and almost following up with a third? Clearly it works, its not hard to grasp.

I've been in a fights and it's why I'm saying what I'm saying.

Sure you have. All I’ll see is there’s martial arts style that revolve around getting your opponent on the ground. Clearly getting your opponent off balance and on the ground is opponent. Anyone with common sense would know that.

I'm talking about his hands. I'm literally saying "his hands" in my comment. I mean please carefully read my replies before you reply back.

Okay. First you said he was more mobile, then I said Hela had him pinned down you said she didn’t, I proved you wrong, now you’re saying his hands have to be stretched out to summon lightning? He had a clenched fist when he summoned that lightning bolt that broke the bifrost at the end of the fight. So like I said, he could‘ve use lightning. This is the movie you can say Thor fought dumb in, not Ragnarok.

His hands are stretched out when he summons lighting which is my point.

Not when he knocks Hela through the bifrost. How is hands are is irrelevant, that’s my point.

Um no it was Infinity War prelude.

Doesn’t change what I said. The scene is shortened, it’s a recap.

Doesn't matter because there's even a moment in that panel that didn't happen in IW. Thor did not scream saying "Hulk!" and rush towards to help before Maw restrained him. That didn't happen. There's quite a bit that did not happen in that comic.

We don’t see Thor scream Hulk but he does rush to help in which Thanos knocks him away and then Maw restrains him. Again, they shorten recaps and Thor saying Hulk doesn’t change the story at it take away from the books credibility.

I think thanos would win but in a tough fight.

Nothing confirms or even hints at the idea that Thor was weaker in Endgame compared to his Infinity War counterpart. Being fat should not affect a God. Volstagg is fat yet he is still formidable. Not to mention it was there for gags and jokes and nothing else. Nobody seriously implied Thor was weakened. Just broken psychologically (not to mention he had an extra hammer Mjolnir in Endgame). But if anything, Russos actually confirmed Thanos is superior to all of the Avengers even without the Stones, and several other statements support the idea of him being the most powerful, again, even without the Stones.

So that seals the deal. All Thor has is a weapon that can cleave through Thanos, but given latter's speed, skill and physical superiority, that is not happening. Thor is just the only one who can kill the Titan.

When has Thor ever fought smart?

My original post says if Thor fought using his powers like he did in Ragnarok while also using Stormbreaker he’d do a lot better than he did in EG and would give Thanos a better fight. Why are you asking me this when I’ve never mentioned anything about Thor fighting smart?

Thor did in fact shoot lighting during their little scene together in IW which Thanos no-sold.

This is irrelevant. My post was not talking about IW, my post was talking about EG. Thor did not once use lightning against Thanos in EG and this is fact. There’s no rebuttal.

In regards to not using lighting when Thanos was gonna kill him, that's just him being stupid like he always has been. Or maybe Thor couldn't call down lighting because he's too focused on trying to stop Thanos from stabbing him.

Already proved he can summon lightning while immobile, under duress and with his hands “spread open” or with clenched fist.

You haven’t countered any of my initial points, why are we still going back and forth?

@asgaard: The last underlined part does not really hint that Thor would be able to use the Stones in Infinity War, especially because Power Stone alone was killing him with a touch. As far as we know, the reason why he can't use the Stones effectively is because of his current mental condition, not physical. The former was way more damaged than the latter.

Even if all of this seems like reaching, Russos also confirmed that only Thanos can use the Stones and avoid damage, so even if Infinity War > Endgame, Thor would still die. And while we are at it, Russos also stated that Thanos is strongest MCU character and is superior to all of the Avengers even without the Stones, and that includes Thor. That by itself makes the entire "weaker in Endgame" thing completely irrelevant.

I could also argue that having extra pounds does not make him weaker strength and durability wise. Because honestly it shouldn't. He should mostly have speed and stamina issues, but I'm not gonna go there because that is more subjective.

Weren't you the context and facts dude?

What does that even mean? Nobody knows everything, LMAO.

Edit:I can concede Thor was weaker in Endgame (even tho I don't think those claims are super clear cut and can be interpreted in multiple ways), but that does not change the fact that Russos consider Thanos to be superior to all the Avengers.

Because Thor's intelligence directly plays into how he fights and when he uses his lighting or not.

What does that have to do with my post? Again my post said if Thor utilizes his powers and fights like he did in Ragnarok he’d do better than he did in EG. If you take me saying “if Thor utilizes his powers and fights like he did in Ragnarok“ as Thor fighting smart then your answered your own question. If not, why the hell did you even tag me?

Ah, I see by "in the two scuffles" you meant the two times they "faced" off in Endgame.

Which makes everything you said pointless and irrelevant ??‍♂️ this entire you’re replying without even knowing what I'm talking about.

Anyway, I've already addressed him not using lighting during the first scuffle and in regards to the second doesn't even matter really. He locked Thanos arm up with Mjonlir while Cap helped out. Unfortunately for him Thanos used his quick thinking to just punch Stormbreaker out of his hand with his left hand.

What you said about him not using lightning has been proving wrong already. And him not using lightning does matter, THAT’s MY ENTIRE POINT IN THIS THREAD. You don’t even know what you’re debating at this point.

The comparisons you were making didn't hold up. If Thor's hands aren't free he can't summon lighting. He's consistently been shown to only summon lighting if he's in full control of his hands. There's not been one time where he hasn't summoned lighting any other way.

This not true and you haven’t proved this. Summons lightning while having a swords in both hands and actively swinging said swords. He’s summoned lightning while having a sword in one hand and his other hand around someone’s throat. He’s summoned lightning and stopped rain by simply looking up at the sky. His powers have never been directly effected by his hands and you‘ve shown nothing to support your claims. If he can summon lightning while his hands are on his a weapon, or someones throat and has shown on screen to summon lightning while under duress than your claim that he couldn’t summon lightning because he was stopping Thanos from stabbing him is invalid. Prove otherwise.

Also if I were to believe he could somehow summon lighting without control of his hands (I don't) then that would just prove my point even more that he's a dumba$$.

I don’t care if you think he’s a dumbass, that’s irrelevant to my initial post. Stay on topic please.

I've countered everything you said. You just don't like what I'm saying but that's not relevant.

You haven’t countered a single thing or provided a single shred of evidence to support your claims. You’re not even replying to what I posted initially you went way off topic.

@uugieboogie: Which means that the basis of my argument is incorrect but the point itself still stands.

@uugieboogie:

The comparisons you were making didn't hold up. If Thor's hands aren't free he can't summon lighting. He's consistently been shown to only summon lighting if he's in full control of his hands. There's not been one time where he hasn't summoned lighting any other way.

Which is a "if" that relies on him being intelligent enough to do those things. If he didn't do those things in IW or Endgame why should we believe he'd do it now? Because you want him too?

If it was something he did back in Phase 1 I would chalk it up to him being stupid. But he just unlocked this power the prior movie and yet he forgot all of that? That’s what happens when you have different directors with visions just like when you have different writers with different visions in regards to the comics. Or it’s simply PIS/CIS. And again, you’re going off topic. My post is about Ragnarok Thor w/ Stormbreaker doing better than EG Thor. i mentioned nothing about his smarts or anything of the sort. Either stay or topic or don’t reply.

He's still in control of his hands. He's obviously channeling lighting through the sword by the use of his hands just like he does when he has Stormbreaker and Mjolnir. Only reason that didn't happen when Thanos had Stormbreaker is because Thanos had Stormbreaker. He overpowered the TK. It was Thanos weapon at that point.

You just shot yourself in the foot. Stopping Thanos from from stabbing him is essentially him holding Stormbreaker.... you just said he can channel through the weapon by holding it and just mentioned in your post he was holding Stormbreaker. You’re countering your own argument now. You went from saying his has to be free, to his hands have to be spread, to he has to have empty hands and now it’s oh he can summon lightning by channeling it thought some random sword lol you switch up your arguments so much and still have yet to provide any sort of evidence that supports your baseless claims. I’ve shown and mentioned at least 5 instances of him summoning lightning while actively fighting, having his hands occupied, being immobile, being hurt and without looking, you’re still saying he couldn’t because reasons lol. Please provide proof or don’t even reply.

And once again he was in control.

What does being in control have do with anything? Hela was choking him, holding one arm down with knives in the other one and he still managed to summon the most powerful lightning blast he’s ever summoned. You have no ground to stand on.

I've already proved it.

If only you actually proved anything instead making baseless claims.

His intelligence is completely relevant. You need to understand you not bringing up the word intelligence or his smarts means absolutely nothing when what you're talking about can only happen if he's being intelligent. Get this through your head.

But I’m only talking about him fighting like he already has lol. ”Fight like he did in Ragnarok” is all I’ve been saying. You’re saying he has to be intelligent to fight like that but he’s already fought like that. He was “intelligent“ enough to do it before, not doing it now would PIS/CIS.

I've countered everything you said. I just went over this.

You haven’t. The funny thing is you’re countering yourself more than anything lol

@thorthunder98: By the fact that's he's never once done it. I would love for somebody to show me otherwise.

He's still in control of his hands. He's obviously channeling lighting through the sword by the use of his hands just like he does when he has Stormbreaker and Mjolnir. Only reason that didn't happen when Thanos had Stormbreaker is because Thanos had Stormbreaker. He overpowered the TK. It was Thanos weapon at that point.

@thorthunder98: By the fact that's he's never once done it. I would love for somebody to show me otherwise.

Yes he did forget it. He forgot to do against Hela and didn't do it at all in IW or Endgame. It's almost like focused power > raw power which is really the point of both Stormbreaker and Mjolnir.

You don't pay attention at all. Everything I'm suggesting he did do against Hela and him nor doing it in IW or EG is the whole point of my post, please try to keep up. The way of utilizing his powers that I'm referring to was done against Hela. Had his lightning cloak, used to stop her incoming projectiles, shot lightning at her through his weapon, summoned lightning from the sky mid combat and used a lightning whip to knock her down. What were you watching?

If your excuse is "different directors" then there's no point in bringing Ragnarok up because you're only wanting him to operate under Takita's vision but considering Thor doesn't know he's in a movie so that's not happening.

I'm convinced you have no idea what you're arguing here. My whole initial post was about him fighting like he did in Ragnarok, that's the point in me saying "If he fights like he did in Ragnarok while using Stormbreaker". I already acknowledge he fights differently (better) in Ragnarok which why I only referenced that movie when I first posted in this thread. What are you even debating anymore? lol exactly what are trying to prove here?

It has everything to do with smarts. Whatever you do when you fight is based off intelligence or lack thereof.

Also convinced you know next to nothing about fighting. There's a difference between being book smart and being a smart fighter. There's a difference in intelligence and battle sense. Floyd Mayweather is a gifted and very smart fighter but the guy is dumb as bricks.

He was holding Stormbreaker, but he was not in control of Stormbreaker, Thanos was. I said "it was Thanos weapon at that point". It was no longer Thor's. It's why Stormbreaker wasn't enfused with lighting like it's normally been since he acquired it.

Prove that someone else holding Thor's weapon makes it "not his weapon" anymore. There's not even an enchantment on SB so where are you even getting this from? The sword he used in Ragnarok wasn't "his", he took it off one of the Bersekers and it didn't stop him using lightning. And SB isn't just always infused with lightning, maybe it stopped being infused with lightning because Thor wasn't actively infusing it with lightning anymore?

Incorrect. When Thor has no weapon and is solely using his raw power he has to be in control of his hands. The Hela scene you keep harping on just further confirms my point. You still haven't noticed the difference between hands and arms smh

My guy his hands were open the entire time and barely moved. You deadass can't be serious right now. Watch the gif in slo-mo, he's barely moving his hands and you're making it seem like he needs to wave his hands and do an incantation like Dr Strange.

And his hands don't even need to be open, here he's summoning lightning with a closed fist.

Thanos didn't have his hands tied, they were't being held telekinetically and his hands even switch positions when he stopping Thanos from stabbing him. This means he could move his hands, even though he barely has to move them if that's the route you want to take. But let's talk how he summoned lightning while holding someone by the throat and not moving his other hand at all.

However when Thor has a weapon he then channels the lighting through the weapon by once again using his hands. It always comes back to the hands.

He's channeled lightning though both Mjolnir and SB while touching them with his hands, invalid point. Also, lightning shoots out from all over his body, not just his hands when he's holding a weapon or not.

And look at his hands. They even show you him opening them up as lighting starts coming out of them and then eventually the big lighting.

Look above, his hands were already opened and he summoned lightning with a closed fist and that same exact fight.

And even Ragnarok agrees with me. He didn't fight the way he fought against the fodder on Hela. He did like none of the cool things he did. Didn't even try to throw her with lighting by just his hands like he did against that one fodder guy. He's just highly inconsistent with what his lighting attacks are and when he decides to go H2H.

This has already been proven to be wrong above. He used a lightning whip to knock her down, used his cloak to to block/destroy her blades, hit her with a lightning blast mid fight and even shot her with a lightning bolt from the tip of his sword. How does Ragnarok agree with you and what powers didn't he use? All you've proven is that you haven't paid attention the movie.

To the underlined part, he wasn't in Ragnarok. He incorporated lightning charged attacks in his CQC and even mixed it with random lightning blast from the sky and random lightning from his body/cloak.

Already addressed this.

Addressed this by saying what? You don't format your replies neatly so it's like finding a needle in haystack when figuring exactly what you're replying too.

Also huh? Thor never took Mjolnir away from Cap once he got it. Unless you're talking about the joke they had where they accidentally called the wrong weapons back which proves nothing.

This alone makes your claim that someone else being in possession of his weapon makes it any less his. Hell he even called Mjolnir from Vision's hand very easily.

@thorthunder98:

Tbf what you just said helps his claim, although I’m not sure he’s right but from the films he has almost always motioned his hands or weapons to summon or channel lightning

@thorthunder98:

Tbf what you just said helps his claim, although I’m not sure he’s right but from the films he has almost always motioned his hands or weapons to summon or channel lightning

@thorthunder98: He uses his hands to channel the lighting through a weapon.

Like let's take a look at IW shall we.

Thor is knocked down and borderline unconscious and yet we see his hands start to move. They open up and once what happens guess what? Stormbreaker rises up and lighting is coming out of it https://youtu.be/k4ruDZ634Vs It has everything to do with his hands. If you can't understand this then that's on you.

Thor has bad record against powerhouses like hulk Kurse and Thanos he struggles to contend a lot of the time once it’s hand to hand but he’s up there especially with stormbreakers blade edge now.

Regarding the op he has slim to none chance of beating Thanos in a head to head battle especially if both are in full gear.

Carol is still a toss up but the only heroes that can get Thanos in a fair fight are the two hax/magic users and even then they are a hit away from losing. It’s weird though neither actually have shown a way to kill him even when Wanda has him raised the best she got to was armor stripping, hopefully we get directors comments on that scene.

Ironically Stormbreaker is the biggest danger to Thanos though.