Anyone Else NOT Convinced Prime IW Thor Would Beat Endgame Thanos?

@uugieboogie: When has Thor ever fought smart?

Thor did in fact shoot lighting during their little scene together in IW which Thanos no-sold.

In regards to not using lighting when Thanos was gonna kill him, that's just him being stupid like he always has been. Or maybe Thor couldn't call down lighting because he's too focused on trying to stop Thanos from stabbing him.

What leads you to think that it could stop the axe before the force behind it would dig into Thanos' ribs?

@ready_4_madness: thanos didn’t use her momentum against her, he just grabbed her and tossed her, after tanking two hits from her. Is it just a coincidence then that the gauntlet and her hands were swirling with the same type of blue energy? Which is different front the energy she usually gives off when powering up the? same type of glow the teaser act/ space stone gives off, where her power is derived from? When her main ability is energy absorbtion?? Come on now.

@batman242: He fought pretty good in his first movie, and fought great in Ragnarok. The way he used Mjolnir against Surtur was great, and the way he let Mjolnir fly independently around him keeping some enemies back while he dealt with a few close was smart too. You wouldn’t even have thought he had electrokinesis in this film tbh.

@batman242:

Well for me it wasn’t a graze it’s a full on slash but not at the angle the axe needs to embed into the armour.

Well from everything Thanos takes without armour why wouldn’t the armor he actively chooses to wear be an actual upgrade on his skin? and what his sword was capable of and the fact the armour did take a SB hit is what I’m basing this on.

I respect your view on this though but I’m on the other side of the fence on this one mate.

@phillip33:

Yep she goes to reach for the gauntlet and he grabs her arm and begins to turn into a position and throws her there was no momentum involved like he counter her coming in or something.

A possible anti feat for Carol I noticed was she was down for a period of time after the QVan blows up in front of her ?

@batman242: because it survived a slice from it unscathed already... what makes you think the ace would actually punch through it? The axes only real feat is cutting into thanos which is a damn good feat because thanos already no sold every other piercing weapon he encountered, but thanos has armor now and it’s safe to assume the armor would enhance his piercing durability, other wise the armor would have been redundant and useless.

I always thought this prime Thor thing was a joke till I kept seeing it...

@karkus: Correct; and we do, it was only 5 years later. To assume he's not is better than to assume he is. The way he fought in EG wasn't any different than when he fought in IW.

@finalkingthanos: she just reached for the gauntlet she wasn’t speeding at it or anything, and he flung her a good distance away. If she was able to do casually overpower thanos later on while not being amped by the gauntlet, and no sell his hit, then she would have been able to resist being tossed like a rag doll here. Not to mention she could fly, and if she was at all capable of actively fighting against thanos in that instant she should have never even hit the floor.

Why do people always compare Thanos trying to stab Thor scene with the scene Hela has Thor pinned?

Hela has him pinned and is actively taunting him giving him enough time to call down the strike while he is gloating.

With Thanos he’s literally and actively fighting for his life seconds away from Sb impaling his chest.

PrimeThor would lose if he fought Thanos H2H but utilizing his versatility he wins and quite easily too. Thanos isn't fast enough to dodge lightning and weaker lightning from Thor put him on his butt, I'm sure the multiple hela-size ones will atleast stun him long enough for Thor to decapitate him.

Nothing confirms or even hints at the idea that Thor was weaker in Endgame compared to his Infinity War counterpart. Being fat should not affect a God. Volstagg is fat yet he is still formidable. Not to mention it was there for gags and jokes and nothing else. Nobody seriously implied Thor was weakened. Just broken psychologically (not to mention he had an extra hammer Mjolnir in Endgame). But if anything, Russos actually confirmed Thanos is superior to all of the Avengers even without the Stones, and several other statements support the idea of him being the most powerful, again, even without the Stones.

So that seals the deal. All Thor has is a weapon that can cleave through Thanos, but given latter's speed, skill and physical superiority, that is not happening. Thor is just the only one who can kill the Titan.

@iron_tiger:

Correct

How can you doubt if EG Thor would lose to EG Thanos when he already did?

and we do, it was only 5 years later. To assume he's not is better than to assume he is. The way he fought in EG wasn't any different than when he fought in IW

But it was five years of inactivity and gorging himself on beer. This would negatively impact most fighters. The Russos heavily implied that Thor in this movie was weaker in an interview when they said "Thor in this movie wasn't strong enough to wield the Gauntlet" The fact that they said "this movie" implied that there's a difference in power between this Thor and the one from the previous movie.

@finalkingthanos:

Well for me it wasn’t a graze it’s a full on slash but not at the angle the axe needs to embed into the armour.

I don't know, maybe we're referring to different instances. In the video you linked, I see Thor swings Stormbreaker and Thanos dodges it, but the very tip of the axe is grazed (this is at the 1:00 mark in the video)

An axe's tip gliding across it's intended target would be a graze considering it needs to hit the target center on to apply it's force.

Well from everything his Thanos takes without armour why wouldn’t the armor he actively chooses to wear be an actual upgrade on his skin? and what his sword was capable of and the fact the armour did take a SB hit is what I’m basing this on.

Except it didn't take a hit from SB. It sure is an upgrade on his skin. From the release of Infinity War I've been saying that the only real reason he took Hulk's hits was because of the armor. Stormbreaker is much stronger than any other hit he took, so it can't be compared to much else.

I respect your view on this though but I’m on the other side of the fence on this one mate.

Likewise, but I need better proof that the armor can take a hit from SB than that graze I'm referring to.

When?

@batman242: that slice Thor gave thanos in the video you showed didn’t leave a mark. Prove that stormbreaker can pierce thanos’ armor, rather than just believing it can.

@batman242:

I see , well in that video it seems clear to me the blade is meant to be shown as gliding over his armor not just a tip graze.

While on the subject what’s your opinion on the struggle scene after Thanos catches the axe then he calls Mjolnir and Cap jumps on to help?

I read it that Thor used Mjolnir to weigh it down hence how Thanos goes to one knee.

I’m in two minds wether Cap is still worthy at this point because when he also grabs strombreaker ,

Thanos actually grimaces and changes his tactic almost immediately so surely that’s a worthy level cap?

Neither of us have solid proof behind our opinion, but sitting here acting as though the tip of the axe's blade grazing Thanos' armor is proof enough that it wouldn't cut through is ridiculous. If the armor took as much force from the axe as you're implying then the armor would have at the very least slowed the momentum of Thor's swing but it didn't. The tip grazes the armor, we see sparks fly (which are particles of metal being chinked away in case you didn't know) and Thor continues with his momentum in the swing. No proof that the armor is strong enough to take a blow.

@karkus said:

I don't remember Thor losing to Thanos.

We don't know exactly what went on within those 5 years other than what we saw. The only negativity I saw from Thor was him being fat and what looked like his hopes were up. "Wasn't strong enough to wield the Gauntlet," which could actually be taken from a durability standpoint -- Thanos had better durability (obviously), and I'd say they were around the same level of strength; Iron Man was clearly "strong enough" to withstand it for several minutes, whereas Thor never laid a hand on it -- Thor has a better chance at dealing with the Gauntlet than Iron Man does, in my opinion. Implying something doesn't automatically make it true.

@batman242: the difference between you and I right now is that at least I have SOME measure of evidence. You have zero. If the axe had actually cut into the armor it would have slowed down and met FAR more resistance than if it hit the armor with the edge, and glanced off. Sparks flying that could be either from stormbreaker or the armor, either or is possible. There is more proof to my claim then there is to yours. Surely you must at least see that.

He'd still lose. He sneaked up on Thanos. Endgame just proved he wouldn't win especially if both are armed.

@iron_tiger:

I don't remember Thor losing to Thanos.

When Thanos caught Stormbreaker from Thor in Endgame and was about to push it in Thor's chest until Captain America came.

"Wasn't strong enough to wield the Gauntlet," which could actually be taken from a durability standpoint

Interesting theory, but even if it was true, that still leads to the difference of Thor in "this movie" not being capable of doing it, which implies in previous movies he would have been better able to do so.

@finalkingthanos: I see , well in that video it seems clear to me the blade is meant to be shown as gliding over his armor not just a tip graze.

If that were the case I think we'd see more than just sparks flying and Thor would also lose momentum on the swing.

I read it that Thor used Mjolnir to weigh it down hence how Thanos goes to one knee.

That doesn't really make sense considering in order for Mjolnir's enchantment to come into effect, the unworthy person has to be wielding or holding it, unless there's some weird extension of the enchantment that Thor can imbue to Stormbreaker via Mjolnir. I personally saw it as Thor calling Mjolnir to use as leverage, but hey, you could be right.

@karkus: @iron_tiger:

Thanos was about to kill Thor with stormbreaker then KOs him with a kick once Cap came to the rescue that was in fight one

and in fight two he KOd him with a headbutt

@batman242: @phillip33:

Maybe but I feel that’s just the way it was shown on film hopefully the dvd extras or commentary give us statements.

You know I kind of meant using Mjolnir as leverage and not the literally worthy enchantment weight haha I worded that wrong but still it seemed to make a hell of a difference to Thor chances.

but I guess even with Cap they still didnt manage to over power one arm the same arm that wore the gauntlet and same arm Carol wrestles with.

@uugieboogie: Other than using a tornado in Thor 1 he's never displayed smarts on that level again.

I'm still trying to figure out why I should be impressed by regular Asgardian fodder.

In regards to Ragnarok he still was an idiot. After Thor figured out he had powers without his hammer and seeing he could keep Hela down for a period of time with a lighting blast from the sky he didn't try it once again. He just gave up once he saw her walking towards them.

Thanos can't control his own weight so yes he did no-sell it.

Steve's lighting did nothing to Thanos as well but knock him to the ground which Thanos immediately shrugged off once Steve tried to do another follow up attack with a Mjonlir lighting strike.

Because Hela was doing nothing to him. She was asking him a question. Thanos was literally pushing Stormbreaker into his chest. Not even remotely comparable situations.

You have no measure of evidence, you have the scene misconstrued. Sorry to say. I have no idea why you're telling me what would've happened had the axe cut into the armor, when I've repeatedly said it grazed it. If the axe grazed it, we would've got exactly what we got in that scene; Thor's momentum being completely unimpeded when the tip of the axe barely touches the armor and chinks the metal, causing sparks to fly.

There's no possibility in where the sparks came from, it came from the armor that had just been worn down from Wanda's telekinetic assault. The fact that you think there's a chance it could be one or the other is ridiculous when the metal of the armor had already been compromised.

Like 242 said, if Thor doesn't fight like a moron he takes it.

Thor couldn't use the gauntlet. Hulk could. That's enough evidence he was weaker.

Cap and Hulk broke Thanos' armor which is the only thing that even saved him from fat Thor. Prime Thor can absolutely shatter the armor and beat him.

That said I really don't think there's much consistency to the in-universe MCU hierarchy.

This could be it too. They make certain characters too strong at one point and then don't know how to handle it later on. This is why they had to completely take Strange out the final fight.

Cant believe people still think that being fat made Thor weaker. Smh

Fat thor was not weaker than prime thor. Pretty sure 20 lb of fat wont slow down a thousand tonner god of thunder. This is just a lame excuse.

Thanos would batter him in the same manner had he not been surprized.

I'm 100% convinced.

Thanos stomps him in the comics and he stomps him in the MCU. It's simple logic. :)

Lol. I'm pretty sure this thread already exists somewhere in multiple forms. Anyway, I've already said on more than one occasion that I don't believe Thor was nerfed in EG, so I guess I'm in agreement with the OP.

@uugieboogie: And I said he only showed smarts with his tornado.

You might but I do not. I get impressed if street levels beat anybody by the way they execute what they want to do. Look at the Captain America vs Batroc fight. Those are skilled fighters.

And yet all that doesn't matter since he didn't try any of that on Hela somebody he actually should be doing that type of stuff too.

It's 2019 and we still believe Thor doesn't have complete control of his lighting? Look at when he called his lighting down when Loki was standing right next to him before they fight Hela. It was a pretty sizeable AOE and yet Loki was completely unharmed. So no, if Thor was to spam his lighting he doesn't need to worry about hitting people/things he doesn't want to it.

And no, it wasn't smart. Hela was down for what 3 minutes maybe more? So it clearly did something to her despite what he wants to believe and yet like I said, he gave up.

Thor didn't pin Hela down, that was Valkyrie.

It is no-selling when you get up in one second.

Carol no-selling his headbutt doesn't mean Thanos didn't no-sell lighting. Also yes, Carol did move. You can see her face move after the impact. Watch it again and slow it down. She clearly moves because she also can't control her weight which is really my whole point.

And yet Thor saw Thanos get up within a second. He wasn't knocked down for extended time like Hela. Thor also didn't see Cap's lighting knock down Thanos because he was too busy being unconscious.

Because Thanos isn't faster than lighting. Like what are you even trying to say right now.

Wrong because Thanos countered before Thor could make a move in IW.

You essentially said the exact same thing and it still didn't change what I previously said. Thanos was doing a constant attack on Thor. Everyone else let him have a little breathing room.

Also when was Thor eaten by a Leviathan?

Thor would have fought like the same dumbass in endgame who forgets he can fly and fling big ass bolts of lightning, so nothing would have changed.

@karkus said:

You stated Thor lost to Thanos, not that Thor was losing to Thanos.

It's an implication, not a solid answer; so, we could go either way on that.

@batman242: ok so you can prove the sparks came from the armor and not from stormbreaker then?? I don’t think so.

Graze or no graze, the edge, and sharpest part of the axe, then end hit thanos’s armor and failed to produce even a mark. That is, however small, more evidence to my point than the non existent evidence to you argument.

Thor would never have the opportunity to land a strike like this outside of a surprise attack anyways, which is a point you have been ignoring for the entire thread.

@ready_4_madness: yes. There was not nearly enough momentum there for her to go flying from a casual toss, especially when she so casually overpowered him in a later instance. And then fact that where her hands were making contact with the gauntlet and where the gauntlet was touching her hands was glowing with the color of the source of carols power, while she was touching the source of her power, which was a different color than her usual energies, while her signature power is energy absorption is all too much to simply be a coincidence.

@phillip33:

ok so you can prove the sparks came from the armor and not from stormbreaker then?? I don’t think so.

One metal we know was forged by some truly intense heat, has ignored a beam from the Infinity Gauntlet, cut into Thanos and busted through ships that tank orbital entry crashes. The other metal has tanked lightning bolts, hits from Mjolnir, hits from Hulk, a powered up blast by Iron Man, etc and by the time it came into contact with the former metal had been compromised by Wanda's telekinetic attack. What makes you think it's remotely possible that the sparks came from Stormbreaker?

Graze or no graze, the edge, and sharpest part of the axe, then end hit thanos’s armor and failed to produce even a mark. That is, however small, more evidence to my point than the non existent evidence to you argument.

Armor that has already been heavily damaged by being shredded.... I don't know how you expect to see bright-as-day where Stormbreaker touched it. Let's also add thatour only sources right now are terrible in terms of quality and would be hard to see something that inconspicuous. There is no sharpest part of the axe, there's only a bladed edge. I don't know how else to explain something this simple to you; grazing something means you barely came into contact with it. The very tip of the axe is the only part that manages to touch Thanos' armor as he's actively trying to avoid it....

Thor would never have the opportunity to land a strike like this outside of a surprise attack anyways, which is a point you have been ignoring for the entire thread.

Except when Thor isn't fighting like a moron that forgets he can fly, shoot lightning and can manipulate the weather to his advantage.

@batman242: because there’s no evidence to the contrary.

It’s not bright as day from the video, but as far as we can see, the armor was unscathed from stormbreaker.It isn’t clear what exactly happened to thanos’s armor when Wanda was holding him in mid air. I’d need to rewatch the movie again to see the extant to which thanos’s armor was damaged, but even so that just makes his armor more impressive for being unscathed by stormbreaker. Grazing something with a bladed weapon, with solid enough contact to make sparks, would surely be enough to at least prompt a small gash in the armor, had the blade been capable of piercing it. Of course thanos is trying to avoid the blow, it would still cause concussive damage even if the blade didn’t penetrate. When I say sharpest part of the axe I mean on either end of the axe face, where the metal comes to a point and there’s an edge on one side of the blade.

Regardless if Thor’s fighting like a moron or not, thanos has a better piercing weapon, has shown better skill, has better physicals, better durability, and has been at best inconvenience by Thor’s lightning. Whenever Thor fights a somewhat capable brick, he always resorts to melee. Like against curse, the hulk twice, thanos, malekith, and Loki. He’d do the same exact thing here, and in a physical confrontation Thor just can’t compete.

@darthvaderrocks: Format will be a little off, I’m on mobile now.

1. He did attempt to use skill on Hela. He outskilled Hela their entire fight, the same character that solo’d the Asgardian and got hit, what 4 times tops? She beat Thor by overpowering him as shown when she effortlessly tossed him.

2. When Thor called down lightning that was him admiring up, the same as he did in EG. That’s not lightning he uses to attack with, obviously. That’s not even equal to what he did against Hela. The lightning blast he used on Hela (that actually took her out for awhile) was big enough to engulf the palace. You do remember how the palace compares in size to the surround mountains and landscape of Asgard right? How is suppose to spam an attack like that not hurt any teammates around him?

3. It clearly was smart if you pay attention to the movie. And as I said before he didn’t “give up”, he kept fighting and still used lightning/electrokinesis the entire fight. I’m not sure how you came to the conclusion he “gave up”.

4. Valk stabbed Hela and dropped her. It was Thor’s lightning that pinned her down and then knocked her through the bifrost.

5. Carol no selling Thanos doesn’t have anything to do with, I’m not even sure where you got that from. Me mentioning Carol no selling Thanos was to give you a clear understanding of what I view no selling as. And no, she didn’t move, certainly not like Thanos who got knocked off his feet and dragged several meters on two separate occasions.

6. What does Thor not seeing Cap use lightning have to do with anything? Lol. Thor already knows lightning can be used to throw Thanos off balance, he just did it the movie prior.

7. If Thanos isn’t taster than lightning then he can’t react to lightning. If he can’t react to lightning and obviously can’t stand his ground against lightning what are you not getting? And Thanos “countered” by getting the axe in his chest lol, great counter.

8. That clearly proves he can summon lightning while under duress and in the middle of combat. I’m providing with instances shown and you’re just saying no because reasons? Hela was choking him.... how is that that breathing room? Thor powered up while getting thrashed by Hulk and retaliated mid swing. Thor has already shown he can summon lightning in an instant, you’re points not valid.

9. Thor was eaten by a Leviathan in a MCU tie in comic. It’s during the battle of New York while he and Tony are talking. Thor summons down two bolts while he’s insides the Levithan’s mouth and one shots it. I’ll upload the scan when I’m not on mobile.