Anti-Monitor (CW) vs MCU & DCEU & FOX Verse

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last0fth3risen

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#1  Edited By last0fth3risen
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Same situation as COIE.

Everyone is alive and at their strongest.

Can they stop it?

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last0fth3risen

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Bump.

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Rosalinagalaxy3

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@last0fth3risen: About Mobius since Crisis begin he wipes them out. I have read tie-in comics of CW Crisis and actually Mobius himself was controlling this canon as canon projects Antimatter wave and Mobius steers it on distance ( originally Outkast was choosing the universe for Mobius to destroy, but after Outkast's death AM wave still was continuing ) + many other higher dimensional feats surpassing all time/history.

But this Mobius from Legends after reforged mulitverse ( at his weakest ) he should scale slightly above Spectre ( speed force buster ), but by feats... hmm i would argue about battle against Phoenix or Dormammu, but he still has feats like having no form at all, teleportation, time travel, resisting normal Ray's shrinking, energy blasts, force fields, speed to tag flash, being already Antimatter being ( countering all phasing except Martian's which already is >> Flash's phasing ), size manipulation, his brute strenght already is > Superman's

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last0fth3risen

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Anyone else?

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Amir20

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You're giving AM way too much credit

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deactivated-60ecdb28037bb

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Lol, the teams die if he released anti-matter, if not, Phoenix and DCEU Flash solo. We don't know if he can resist TP, and Flash can keep rewinding time if they lose.

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JediSympathiz3r

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Does having the IG for Thanos count as his strongest? If so, he solos, if not, they probably lose

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THORWINS1875

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AM multiversal above anything the team has including gauntlet

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RBT

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Anti Monitor wipes these verses and their fanboys.

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legend531

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AM Negs.

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legend531

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"Dceu Flash soloes"

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deactivated-60ecdb28037bb

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@legend531: Barry can't reverse time now? The AM will kill them all, but all of these characters will put up a fight if the CW JL could.

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legend531

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@factg said:

@legend531: Barry can't reverse time now? The AM will kill them all, but all of these characters will put up a fight if the CW JL could.

Cw Jl Needed some Plot Deus Ex Machina to Beat an Anti Monitor who was weakened from his Fight with Spectre.

Also as for his unawakened state.

They needed Spectre,s Help and Some weird Shenanigans.

None of these folks compare to Spectre.

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deactivated-60ecdb28037bb

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@legend531 said:

@factg said:

@legend531: Barry can't reverse time now? The AM will kill them all, but all of these characters will put up a fight if the CW JL could.

Cw Jl Needed some Plot Deus Ex Machina to Beat an Anti Monitor who was weakened from his Fight with Spectre.

Also as for his unawakened state.

They needed Spectre,s Help and Some weird Shenanigans.

None of these folks compare to Spectre.

If AM can be hurt physically, the team can win this. Together, they can do unimaginable things.

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legend531

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@factg said:

@legend531 said:

@factg said:

@legend531: Barry can't reverse time now? The AM will kill them all, but all of these characters will put up a fight if the CW JL could.

Cw Jl Needed some Plot Deus Ex Machina to Beat an Anti Monitor who was weakened from his Fight with Spectre.

Also as for his unawakened state.

They needed Spectre,s Help and Some weird Shenanigans.

None of these folks compare to Spectre.

If AM can be hurt physically, the team can win this. Together, they can do unimaginable things.

None of them compare to the Spectre tho and this is not his weakened self.

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TheSpartanB345T

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DCEU Flash kills Anti-Monitor as a baby.

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legend531

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@factg said:

@legend531 said:

@factg said:

@legend531: Barry can't reverse time now? The AM will kill them all, but all of these characters will put up a fight if the CW JL could.

Cw Jl Needed some Plot Deus Ex Machina to Beat an Anti Monitor who was weakened from his Fight with Spectre.

Also as for his unawakened state.

They needed Spectre,s Help and Some weird Shenanigans.

None of these folks compare to Spectre.

If AM can be hurt physically, the team can win this. Together, they can do unimaginable things.

Also I forgot something.

He can reform himself as proven when he came back after Spectre Spectre temporarily disintegrated him.

Also the CW JL never really put up a fight.

Watch it again.

He erected a Half Assed Barrier that none of them were capable of penetrating.

Unleashed a Half assed shockwave that put them down on their asses.

Increased his size and let the Heroes barrage him with attacks to no avail.

He then proceeded to catch Cw Supes and keep him in place him like the bug he is and was about to squash him to death until Roy came up with a plan.

He created a device.

That would keep him in the Quantum realm/Microverse for eternity(Kind of like a Time Loop).

Keep in Mind he could have just shrunk him and contained him in a Jar.

But IIRC it was useless against someone of his calibre.

So he needed to think out of the box and concort an unorthodox plan.

So it was not as clear cut as them putting up a fight and thereby another team can replicate it.

Nah it was a bit more complex than that.

Think about what I told you before you send your next reply.

So as I said above.

This Team is not beating Cw Am lol.

And no it is not bias.

Don't believe me?

You can watch the episodes yourself.

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legend531

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DCEU Flash kills Anti-Monitor as a baby.

Wonder why CW Flash didn't think of that and instead opted to go with Ray's plan to keep him in a state of perpetual Shrinking in the microverse.

I wonder hm.

Also how do you know Flash can go back billions of years in the past?

Those are some speculative claims you are making there Mister.

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TheSpartanB345T

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@legend531: Because CW Flash is easily one of the biggest and worst jobbers of all time? His fight IQ is practically in the negative, and he also wouldn't kill anyway, Flashpoint already happened and who knows what would happen to the CWverse if Anti-Monitor didn't exist, it clearly wasn't an option.

There's literally no reason DCEU Flash would have a limit on when he could time travel, once you go fast enough time travel works, you don't just go even faster to travel more.

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legend531

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@legend531: Because CW Flash is easily one of the biggest and worst jobbers of all time? His fight IQ is practically in the negative, and he also wouldn't kill anyway, Flashpoint already happened and who knows what would happen to the CWverse if Anti-Monitor didn't exist, it clearly wasn't an option.

There's literally no reason DCEU Flash would have a limit on when he could time travel, once you go fast enough time travel works, you don't just go even faster to travel more.

Even if I steel manned you and say he will go back billions of years into the past.

How does he kill him?

A being of pure Anti Matter.

I am pretty sure there is no such thing as Kid AM.

But if there is.

Can you prove such a thing?

Also don't you know that AM could just use his Anti Matter as a Beacon(By planting it in the Speedforce) and Meet him at his destination.

So it is moot irregardless.

I don't see how the strategy you have set up will come to fruition.

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legend531

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@legend531: Because CW Flash is easily one of the biggest and worst jobbers of all time? His fight IQ is practically in the negative, and he also wouldn't kill anyway, Flashpoint already happened and who knows what would happen to the CWverse if Anti-Monitor didn't exist, it clearly wasn't an option.

There's literally no reason DCEU Flash would have a limit on when he could time travel, once you go fast enough time travel works, you don't just go even faster to travel more.

Also I am pretty sure AM does not have a Timeline Duplicate.

If it follows the comics closely.

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TheSpartanB345T

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@legend531:

CW does not follow the comics closely, Ra's is a Green Arrow villain lmao

There's no reason Barry can't kill Anti-Monitor as a baby

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king_majestros

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Shitty CW Anti-Monitor versus those people? Yes, he's not winning.

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TheSpartanB345T

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@legend531:

Even if I steel manned you and say he will go back billions of years into the past.

How does he kill him?

A being of pure Anti Matter.

Regular damage, phase-kill, etc.

I am pretty sure there is no such thing as Kid AM.

How do you know this? NLF.

But if there is.

Can you prove such a thing?

The burden of proof is on you to prove he never was a kid, we assume normal properties until proven otherwise.

Also don't you know that AM could just use his Anti Matter as a Beacon(By planting it in the Speedforce) and Meet him at his destination.

So it is moot irregardless.

I don't see how the strategy you have set up will come to fruition.

Your beacon strategy makes no sense, how does that even stop Barry from killing baby Monitor? Even if no "kid Monitor" exists, he still was created, Barry can prevent his creation.

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THORWINS1875

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@thespartanb345t: AM was never a kid. He was a anti-matter doppleganger of Novu created in netherverse.


When Mar Novu traveled to the temporal zone, he was overwhelmed by chronal radiation as his presence caused an influx of antimatter, transporting him to the netherverse and somehow creating Mobius, an antimatter doppelgänger, as well as giving him a means of escape from there.[2]

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legend531

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@legend531:

Even if I steel manned you and say he will go back billions of years into the past.

How does he kill him?

A being of pure Anti Matter.

Regular damage, phase-kill, etc.

Ehh he will just reform himself Ez Pz.

I am pretty sure there is no such thing as Kid AM.

How do you know this? NLF.

Yeah major lack of insight on my end I will drop it

But if there is.

Can you prove such a thing?

The burden of proof is on you to prove he never was a kid, we assume normal properties until proven otherwise.

Look above I dropped that

Also don't you know that AM could just use his Anti Matter as a Beacon(By planting it in the Speedforce) and Meet him at his destination.

So it is moot irregardless.

I don't see how the strategy you have set up will come to fruition.

Your beacon strategy makes no sense, how does that even stop Barry from killing baby Monitor? Even if no "kid Monitor" exists, he still was created, Barry can prevent his creation.

No like the beacon strategy is to ensure AM Will follow him wherever he goes and ensure he does not make any changes.

Like let's say he reaches to where he was a Kid.

AM Will be there waiting for him so he does not do any funny business.

I mean we have already seen him Manipulate the speedforce when Barry tried accessing multiple timelines but each time he appeared there were inaccessible and unreachable due to a high concentration of Anti Matter.

He also did it again when he followed Barry to the Vanishing Point.

So he can also just taint the speedforce like he did in canon rendering that strategy null.

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TheSpartanB345T

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legend531

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@thorwins1875: Flash can just stop him from being created though

What if the Speedforce gets tainted by Anti Matter and he is incapable of reaching that destination ?

I will admit that strategy could work tho.

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THORWINS1875

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@thorwins1875: Flash can just stop him from being created though

@thespartanb345t:

Your beacon strategy makes no sense, how does that even stop Barry from killing baby Monitor? Even if no "kid Monitor" exists, he still was created, Barry can prevent his creation.

DCEU Flash has no feats suggesting he has the ability to trans-dimensional hop from the matter universe to the temporal zone.. And even if he could, which he has no feats suggesting he can - Mobius was sitting at the dawn of time itself in the netherverse.

By your logic - Barry has to overcome 3 hurdles

1) Stop the creation of AM doppleganger - Needs to trans-dimensional hop from the matter universe to the temporal zone dimension

2) Stop the creation of the AM doppleganger - How does he counter a dimension absorbing influx of anti-matter - same anti-matter thats attack pottency wiped out universes?

Universal level destruction > Phasing planet level destruction

3) Assuming he overcomes all this, despite have no feats to prove he can - He would still need to trans-dimensional hop again into the netherverse, time travel to the dawn of time and then defeat time remnant version of AM at the cosmic treadmill

DCEU Flash time travel feats exist solely in the range of a few minutes. His only universe hoping feat so far was from CW Flash cameo - and that was through the speedforce.

Hoping from universe to universe can be done with breaches, trans-dimensional hoping required nobu level powers.

0 feats to suggest anything you're claiming.

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RBT

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@thorwins1875: Flash can just stop him from being created though

That's exactly what the paragons tried to do. They went back in time to stop Mobius from going through the events that would create AM. They succeeded. Only to find AM was still created. The reasoning they gave for it was than in an infinite multiverse, there will always be a Mobius who will end up creating Anti Monitor,

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legend531

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@thespartanb345t said:

@thorwins1875: Flash can just stop him from being created though

@thespartanb345t:

Your beacon strategy makes no sense, how does that even stop Barry from killing baby Monitor? Even if no "kid Monitor" exists, he still was created, Barry can prevent his creation.

DCEU Flash has no feats suggesting he has the ability to trans-dimensional hop from the matter universe to the temporal zone.. And even if he could, which he has no feats suggesting he can - Mobius was sitting at the dawn of time itself in the netherverse.

By your logic - Barry has to overcome 3 hurdles

1) Stop the creation of AM doppleganger - Needs to trans-dimensional hop from the matter universe to the temporal zone dimension

2) Stop the creation of the AM doppleganger - How does he counter a dimension absorbing influx of anti-matter - same anti-matter thats attack pottency wiped out universes?

Universal level destruction > Phasing planet level destruction

3) Assuming he overcomes all this, despite have no feats to prove he can - He would still need to trans-dimensional hop again into the netherverse, time travel to the dawn of time and then defeat time remnant version of AM at the cosmic treadmill

DCEU Flash time travel feats exist solely in the range of a few minutes. His only universe hoping feat so far was from CW Flash cameo - and that was through the speedforce.

Hoping from universe to universe can be done with breaches, trans-dimensional hoping required nobu level powers.

0 feats to suggest anything you're claiming.

@rbt said:
@thespartanb345t said:

@thorwins1875: Flash can just stop him from being created though

That's exactly what the paragons tried to do. They went back in time to stop Mobius from going through the events that would create AM. They succeeded. Only to find AM was still created. The reasoning they gave for it was than in an infinite multiverse, there will always be a Mobius who will end up creating Anti Monitor,

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TheSpartanB345T

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@rbt: Barry goes back in time to kill Mobius as a baby then, simple

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RBT

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@rbt: Barry goes back in time to kill Mobius as a baby then, simple

What part of infinite number of Mobius was unclear?

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THORWINS1875

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@rbt: Barry goes back in time to kill Mobius as a baby then, simple

Mobius was never a baby. Are you intentionally ignoring what people are telling you? Did you even watch the show?



When Mar Novu traveled to the temporal zone, he was overwhelmed by chronal radiation as his presence caused an influx of antimatter, transporting him to the netherverse and somehow creating Mobius, an antimatter doppelgänger, as well as giving him a means of escape from there.[2]

Mobius IS a doppleganger. When he was created, he was an adult with his powerset.

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legend531

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@thespartanb345t said:

@rbt: Barry goes back in time to kill Mobius as a baby then, simple

Mobius was never a baby. Are you intentionally ignoring what people are telling you? Did you even watch the show?

When Mar Novu traveled to the temporal zone, he was overwhelmed by chronal radiation as his presence caused an influx of antimatter, transporting him to the netherverse and somehow creating Mobius, an antimatter doppelgänger, as well as giving him a means of escape from there.[2]

Mobius IS a doppleganger. When he was created, he was an adult with his powerset.

He is obtuse.

He is so adamant that Dceu Flash soloes😂😂😂🤭

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SupremeGeneration

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Doomsday adapts and one shots

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THORWINS1875

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@legend531: I think it's just a troll, in which case - he has succeded in wasting peoples time.

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legend531

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legend531

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GohindaSuperman

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@thespartanb345t: Anti-Monitor wrecks universes across past, present and future. How does it matter ?

Moreover Anti-Monitor is time traveller too and humiliated Spectre with Barry inside Speed Force

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TheSpartanB345T

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@thespartanb345t: Anti-Monitor wrecks universes across past, present and future. How does it matter ?

Moreover Anti-Monitor is time traveller too and humiliated Spectre with Barry inside Speed Force

Yeah but if Flash destroys Mobius as a baby he wins smh

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TheSpartanB345T

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@thorwins1875:

Ah, but you see, therein lies the problem.

Mobius was never a baby. Are you intentionally ignoring what people are telling you? Did you even watch the show?

When Mar Novu traveled to the temporal zone, he was overwhelmed by chronal radiation as his presence caused an influx of antimatter, transporting him to the netherverse and somehow creating Mobius, an antimatter doppelgänger, as well as giving him a means of escape from there.[2]

Mobius IS a doppleganger. When he was created, he was an adult with his powerset.

Mobius is a doppleganger, a doppleganger of Mar Novu, and Mar Novu was once a baby. Mar Novu has parents. Barry can kill all of them with time travel.

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GohindaSuperman

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@gohindasuperman said:

@thespartanb345t: Anti-Monitor wrecks universes across past, present and future. How does it matter ?

Moreover Anti-Monitor is time traveller too and humiliated Spectre with Barry inside Speed Force

Yeah but if Flash destroys Mobius as a baby he wins smh

Other problem:

Anti-Monitor has power of destiny manipulation. His super luck made Kara, Lex and Ryan entering wrong universe ( this is like quantum mechanics based ), because Mobius himself has fate manipulation. As anti-doppelganger of Novu who has absorbed powers from temporal zone & Antiverse his powers are that strong. Mobius wrecked those infinite universes across time including dawns of time. THis is why Mobius couldn't be retconned. He himself was manipulating destiny making Novu foreseeing power look like joke. Moreover Anti-Monitor was destroying all future timelines including that future timeline where Mia Smoak was.

Remember that Mobius even at his weakest is miles above Spectre who killed Barry's source of power

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THORWINS1875

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@thorwins1875:

Ah, but you see, therein lies the problem.

Mobius was never a baby. Are you intentionally ignoring what people are telling you? Did you even watch the show?

When Mar Novu traveled to the temporal zone, he was overwhelmed by chronal radiation as his presence caused an influx of antimatter, transporting him to the netherverse and somehow creating Mobius, an antimatter doppelgänger, as well as giving him a means of escape from there.[2]

Mobius IS a doppleganger. When he was created, he was an adult with his powerset.

Mobius is a doppleganger, a doppleganger of Mar Novu, and Mar Novu was once a baby. Mar Novu has parents. Barry can kill all of them with time travel.

ignoring the fact that barry doesn't have the feats to get to universe TUD7, or the the feats to prove he can time travel beyond a few minutes - how does barry still deal with the time remnant version of the AM that's sitting in the netherverse at the cosmic treadmill?


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thewalterwhite

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@rbt said:

Anti Monitor wipes these verses

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TheSpartanB345T

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@legend531:

DCEU Flash has no feats suggesting he has the ability to trans-dimensional hop from the matter universe to the temporal zone.. And even if he could, which he has no feats suggesting he can - Mobius was sitting at the dawn of time itself in the netherverse.

He literally can travel between universes and survive the destruction of universes according to VFX artists:

. Bryan Hirota and I discussed the scene with Zack, detailing how we wanted to build the Flash frame rates and contrast him with the destroyed universe — The Abyss — and subsequent Cosmic Rebirth. Scanline took that old edited postvis and expounded on our basic ideas to push the Big Bang Trippiness Factor to the psychedelic conclusion you see in the film.

And these same artists who worked on the time (and were talking to Zach himself) said Flash was created galaxies with each footstep

By your logic - Barry has to overcome 3 hurdles

1) Stop the creation of AM doppleganger - Needs to trans-dimensional hop from the matter universe to the temporal zone dimension

2) Stop the creation of the AM doppleganger - How does he counter a dimension absorbing influx of anti-matter - same anti-matter thats attack pottency wiped out universes?

Universal level destruction > Phasing planet level destruction

3) Assuming he overcomes all this, despite have no feats to prove he can - He would still need to trans-dimensional hop again into the netherverse, time travel to the dawn of time and then defeat time remnant version of AM at the cosmic treadmill

He actually doesn't have to do any of that, he just kills Mar Novu (who created Anti-Monitor) before he enters the Netherverse and before he loses his family, killing Mar Novu as he is a child, or killing his parents.

DCEU Flash time travel feats exist solely in the range of a few minutes. His only universe hoping feat so far was from CW Flash cameo - and that was through the speedforce.

He was creating galaxies with each footstep when the Unity had destroyed the universe itself.

Hoping from universe to universe can be done with breaches, trans-dimensional hoping required nobu level powers.

He can literally hop on the Abyss, or lack of universe, and he doesn't even need to because he can just time travel to kill Mar Novu as a baby.

0 feats to suggest anything you're claiming.

You can say this all you want but it is a baseless claim, I provided feats and a clear strategy.

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TheSpartanB345T

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@rbt said:
@thespartanb345t said:

@rbt: Barry goes back in time to kill Mobius as a baby then, simple

What part of infinite number of Mobius was unclear?

He can kill Mar Novu before Mobius is ever created though.

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RBT

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@rbt said:
@thespartanb345t said:

@rbt: Barry goes back in time to kill Mobius as a baby then, simple

What part of infinite number of Mobius was unclear?

He can kill Mar Novu before Mobius is ever created though.

I may have mis remembered Monitor's name.

So, its infinite Mar Novus. One of which would always create AM.

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TheSpartanB345T

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@thorwins1875 said:
@thespartanb345t said:

@rbt: Barry goes back in time to kill Mobius as a baby then, simple

Mobius was never a baby. Are you intentionally ignoring what people are telling you? Did you even watch the show?

When Mar Novu traveled to the temporal zone, he was overwhelmed by chronal radiation as his presence caused an influx of antimatter, transporting him to the netherverse and somehow creating Mobius, an antimatter doppelgänger, as well as giving him a means of escape from there.[2]

Mobius IS a doppleganger. When he was created, he was an adult with his powerset.

He is obtuse.

He is so adamant that Dceu Flash soloes😂😂😂🤭

Now you're just being mean. Just because we disagree doesn't mean you need to call be obtuse or a troll, I don't want to be "wasting people's time", we are just discussing the characters for fun it isn't that serious.

I feel like you crossed the line I was being civil, just because you don't think Flash could kill baby Anti-Monitor doesn't mean you have to cyberbully.

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THORWINS1875

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@thespartanb345t: I wasn't aware of that VFX team info. Motherboxes were universal level??