Jk. He's just some alien guy whose home planet blew up and his parent somehow managed to get him off the planet before it went kaboom, they sent him to Earth (like.. of all those billions of technologically advanced planets, they chose the Earth, the butthole of the omniverse.. truly mind boggling). He was then adopted by two lovely earthlings, and discovered that our sun boosted his physical stats and gave him some extra abilities, fought some bad guys and saved the Earth multiple times. He later ended up falling in love with a reporter chick with which he had a son... yadda yadda yadda. And that's about it. Is this good enough for you?
Eh, I dunno. He has shown to be able to use it in combat, like with Cell or his attempt with Dyspo.
Not from the get-go, I'm afraid. Which is what'll need to do in order to pull off a double-U, especially against Superpants. Again, redundant.
I'll fully admit that the Super Flare is fully capable of killing Goku, plain and simple. However, the issue is the range. I believe it's evident that the Super Flare is a massive AOE attack, and can simply be...you know, outpaced. Which is where Instant Transmission comes in handy.
Well, that's fair.
Damn, this is tricky.
But, I believe this is where 4D Goku comes in handy.
In some shitty animated 4D Dragon Ball movie, Goku fused with the Audience - real people.
You know who's a real person? Zack Snyder. Who made DCEU Superman? Zack Snyder.
Therefore 4D Goku has a power level of Infinity + 2 and his Hakai erases DCEU Superman.
I'm still having a hard time believing how he'll get past this. I mean look at this, just look at it..
And just to debunk yours points in regards to Snyder, there wasn't any CGI lips Superman in the Snyder Cut. Blame Whedon (who's infinity + 3) for the CGI lips creation, he's one of ultra instinct Shaggy's main avatars who happened to empower Audience-level Goku. And not to mention, Warner Bros whose power level is infinity + 3 + 1/2, whilst extremely weakened. But after the huge success of the Aquaman movie, said bros power level completely transcended infinity, and the very concept of omnipotence. There isn't a known term that can fully describe their power level, and keep in mind that's just 0.0infinity01% of WB's base level, they exist in the same ballpark as full power UI Shaggy. Guess where Superman draws his powers? That's right, Warner Bros and Whedon force. So.. those points you brought up are all for naught, unfortunately. Additionally, a much weaker version of Superman had already beaten a more powerful version of Goku 4 years ago.
And thus, no need for pressure points as Goku erases Super/Snyderman.
During the Tournament with Universe 6, Goku uses one of his oldest abilities with the power of SSGSS - Kaioken, which acts as a multiplier for all of his stats.
He's capable of pushing himself up to Kaioken x 20, and thus comes out as 20 x stronger than Superman is in this scenario. And there's no real way of getting around that. :)
Wouldn't this defeat the purpose of equalised stats, lol? Anyways.. I guess he can do that. But I'm pretty sure Superman, with the help of the CGI lips and Whedon force, would sense the sudden increase in Kararot's power levels. Ergo, he won't hesitate to finish off Goku with a mixture of pressure points and solar flare (lol) while the latter is still in the process of powering up. Boom, Insta-win.
Ultra Instinct:
In the rare case of Superman pushing Goku far enough in a fight, he can awaken his strongest form - Ultra Instinct! In this form, Goku has the ability to instantly dodge any attack without thinking, and attack likewise.
Of course, this form will only be used in the rare scenario that Goku is pushed to this extent, but it never hurts to have a massive asspull, right?
Eh, Goku only ever used the form in question when Jiren threatened to kill his family and friends, IIRC. Not to mention, the new Dragon Ball Super movie sorta highlighted the fact that Goku kinda forgot how to activate the ultra instinct after the tournament of power, even in extremely intense situations (versus Broly) he still couldn't, he had to fuse with Vegeta in order to fully bypass Broly, ergo, the chances of Goku using Ultra Instinct on Superman are reduced to zero. This match up, however, will ultimately boil down to who got the better hand-to-hand skills, and training. And I'm quite certain that Superman holds the advantage in this regard, especially given the fact that he's lived without his powers before, as opposed to Goku who's never had a similar experience in his entire life as a super saiyan, he's never had to face and beat a Kryptonian dragon while almost completely depowered (Action Comics #834). Clark is no stranger to overcoming greater threats even sans his invincibility.
Gallery
.....take Action Comics #761 for example, in which he was teleported into an entirely different dimension/Valhalla, and had to learn to how to fight besides Wonder Woman and Thor for almost a thousand years. That's a thousand freaking years worth of combat experience.
Gallery
And it's not the first time that happened. I'm gonna just quote a post I made a while ago:
Superman displayed some impressive combat skills in Rebirth as well. I feel like some of his feats are being overlooked f.e the instance from Action Comics #971 wherein Superman lands on a planet orbiting a red sun, his powers were diminishing very quickly. And it should be noted that by the time Zad and God slayer (two skilled warriors) arrived at the scene, Superman had already lost all of his powers.
Gallery
The fight, however, begins in the next issue, in which a powerless Superman goes up against two highly skilled warriors that outclasses him in stats, he first uppercuts Zad who then gets briefly dropped by a blast from Luthor. L'Call starts swinging his sword at Superman who then dodges it and proceeds to disarm him and dodges another sword swing and then uses the weapon to drop a huge boulder on L'Call, slowing him down long enough for them to escape the scene.
Gallery
In the later panels, Superman takes on and submits Zad with the use of the element of surprise and superior speed & agility plus his cape (?!), the panels are quite self-explanatory. IMHO, this feat is better than what I've seen from Thor thus far.
Gallery
What makes that^ impressive is: Zad and L'Call even before all of that^, were able to survive some hits from a fully powered Superman which means they both physically outclasses him (a powerless Superman) yet he was able to bypass that advantage via his superior intellect and skills.
Likewise, he has other similar feats such as during Trinity #17 where he (whilst completely depowered with Magic) and Batman and a blind Diana takes out more than a dozen of not-so-skilled Lizard creatures. I'm aware it's not all that impressive but the sheer size of the said creatures makes the feat kinda sorta impressive.
Gallery
And does it again in the next issue. Despite of being physically outclassed, he still finds a way around it. Granted, he had help from Batman and Wonder Woman, but still impressive.
Gallery
And then the next panels shows him fighting off other magical creatures (werewolves, cutups, giant bugs and a goddamn mosasaurus... basically all kinds of shit) while riding a unicorn alongside a blind WW and Batman. And then fighting an army.. etc. The whole arc is weird.
Gallery
Trinity #18-19
And keep in mind, he still has a plethora of other similar instances. I'll post 'em later.
Not from the get-go, I'm afraid. Which is what'll need to do in order to pull off a double-U, especially against Superpants.
Eh, with speed equalised neither can really outspeed the other. Which is where IT would come in handy.
Again, redundant.
No u.
Well, that's fair.
Nice.
I'm still having a hard time believing how he'll get past this. I mean look at this, just look at it..
While bad, the early animation of DBS was far worse. Just look at this shit.
Also due to DC Lanterns logic, more colours = more power, so DBS Goku > Whedonman's chins.
And just to debunk yours points in regards to Snyder, there wasn't any CGI lips Superman in the Snyder Cut. Blame Whedon (who's infinity + 3) for the CGI lips creation, he's one of ultra instinct Shaggy's main avatars who happened to empower Audience-level Goku.
There's a few problems here, actually.
First of all since the DCEU movies are all so shit, Whedonman = Snyderman. Deal with it.
Second, Whedon is still a real person, meaning Goku can fuse with him to become a stronger 4D Goku.
Lastly, as Snyderman canonically lost to DCEU Batman, who left the DCEU, that means that Snyder/Whedonman < Ben Affleck who is < Goku.
Also, UI Shaggy has no avatars, as he is everything and everyone - yes, even Goku.
And not to mention, Warner Bros whose power level is infinity + 3 + 1/2
Yet can't make a good DC film.
said bros power level completely transcended infinity, and the very concept of omnipotence
DCEU films are unpopular with critics. Critics are part of the audience. Goku fused with the audience, and thus destroys Superman.
Guess where Superman draws his powers? That's right, Warner Bros and Whedon force.
I'm afraid that doesn't hold up. As shown in End: My Suffering #666, Shaggy destroyed Superman using a minuscule fraction of his power.
Additionally, a much weaker version of Superman had already beaten a more powerful version of Goku 4 years ago.
Ah, I see you're making me use Seththeprogrammer Goku. Well, I'm afraid that STP Goku instantly debunks DB Superman.
I bet you didn't account for WhedonMan
Oh I did :)
Wouldn't this defeat the purpose of equalised stats, lol?
Eh, not really. I mean, it's equal up to SSB, and Goku only uses Kaioken when he needs to.
Eh, Goku only ever used the form in question when Jiren threatened to kill his family and friends, IIRC.
Whis explained that the intense power from his own Spirit Bomb managed to push him to Ultra Instinct Sign for the first time. He mastered UI by simply being in it long enough.
Loading Video...
Not to mention, the new Dragon Ball Super movie sorta highlighted the fact that Goku kinda forgot how to activate the ultra instinct after the tournament of power, even in extremely intense situations (versus Broly) he still couldn't
From what I've seen of the movie, in that fight, Goku did turn UI for about 2 seconds. But, Broly wasn't pushing Goku far enough like in his fight with Jiren, as while SSB Goku equally matched Broly, Jiren outright stomped SSBK Goku.
the chances of Goku using Ultra Instinct on Superman are reduced to zero
Eh, I mean, if Goku does manage to get pushed far enough, yeah he can still use UI.
he's never had to face and beat a Kryptonian dragon
His series is called 'Dragon' Ball. GG.
That's a thousand freaking years worth of combat experience.
*Cough cough Hit cough cough*
:)
So, overall, Superman doesn't have an answer for 4D Goku, Hakai or even Kaioken. He gets slapped hard.
Honestly I think Goku is just the new Thor in these types of debates. He is way more powerful and could potentially one shot but he is WAY too slow and could potentially be camped in a star where he can't really do much. Superman's finite speed feats are fucking crazy and way better then even wanked Goku speed feats, and Goku has literally nothing putting him at immeasurable while superman has plenty (tagging flash, going back in time in the silver age, etc). And while superman is weaker for the most part he is still strong enough to hurt him, due to his plenty of universal feats. You could even argue he is actually stronger than Goku due to DC's bigger cosmology because of that.
Log in to comment