Annihilators vs Earth Villains

This is the second in a series of battles involving the Annihilators.  The first set them against Earth-based heroes.

This second battle is against Earth-based villains: 

 The set-up, again, is that the Stranger is controlling the Annihilators and the villains, and is setting them against each other.  The teams begin one mile away from each other.  This battle takes place in the Siberian tundra during the spring (cold but not disablingly so):  

No morals for either side.

No initial speed blitzing.  This means that anyone from either side can start the battle with shields up, if so desired.

Both sides are generally aware of each others' power-sets.

Win through death, KO, or other form of incapacitation.

The Annihilators are all current versions.  Maelstrom, the Absorbing Man, and Graviton are all their standard versions.  Madelyne Pryor is at the height of her powers as the Goblyn Queen.

Legion has all the numerous powers/personalities from when he battled the New Mutants early in their current series--not the version in Rise of the New Mutants.  He is unhinged and violent, sane enough to control his powers and fight along with the group, but not lucid enough to engage in real teamwork.  The rest of his team will fight together well as a team.

Which team wins?  PLEASE EXPLAIN YOUR ANSWER!  What match-ups do you see happening?

Earth, full powered Legion might be a little too much for these guys. 

Earth, full powered Legion might be a little too much for these guys. 

Earth, full powered Legion might be a little too much for these guys. 

@katanalauncher said:

Earth, full powered Legion might be a little too much for these guys. 

No. The Annihilators have knowledge on the opposing team's power sets. The Earth villains get massacred.

@katanalauncher said:

Earth, full powered Legion might be a little too much for these guys. 

Can't SS just turn him to mercury and be done with it? Same for graviton and Maelstrom.  Mind rape absorbing man 

@Illuminatus said:

@katanalauncher said:

Earth, full powered Legion might be a little too much for these guys. 

No. The Annihilators have knowledge on the opposing team's power sets. The Earth villains get massacred.

I was thinking Silver Surfer could even solo. 

@difficlus said:

@katanalauncher said:

Earth, full powered Legion might be a little too much for these guys. 

Can't SS just turn him to mercury and be done with it? Same for graviton and Maelstrom.  Mind rape absorbing man 

Yes, quite easily. This is the Annihilators with no morals and prep.   I don't see why he wouldn't just overload Absorbing Man..

@Illuminatus said:

@difficlus said:

@katanalauncher said:

Earth, full powered Legion might be a little too much for these guys. 

Can't SS just turn him to mercury and be done with it? Same for graviton and Maelstrom.  Mind rape absorbing man 

Yes, quite easily. This is the Annihilators with no morals and prep.   I don't see why he wouldn't just overload Absorbing Man..

There are many ways for SS to kill creel. dump him in a blackhole, mind rape, remove his soul, astral plane attack. 

Annihilators stomp.

 @difficlus said:   
@Illuminatus said: 

@difficlus said:

@katanalauncher said:

Earth, full powered Legion might be a little too much for these guys. 

Can't SS just turn him to mercury and be done with it? Same for graviton and Maelstrom.  Mind rape absorbing man 

Yes, quite easily. This is the Annihilators with no morals and prep.   I don't see why he wouldn't just overload Absorbing Man..

There are many ways for SS to kill creel. dump him in a blackhole, mind rape, remove his soul, astral plane attack. 

 @difficlus said:   
@Illuminatus said: 

@difficlus said:

@katanalauncher said:

Earth, full powered Legion might be a little too much for these guys. 

Can't SS just turn him to mercury and be done with it? Same for graviton and Maelstrom.  Mind rape absorbing man 

Yes, quite easily. This is the Annihilators with no morals and prep.   I don't see why he wouldn't just overload Absorbing Man..

There are many ways for SS to kill creel. dump him in a blackhole, mind rape, remove his soul, astral plane attack. 

 You guys found some nice ways to get around the villains' powers using the Surfer's mental powers.  I like that. But I can't see this as a stomp.  I think many of the other Annihilators might get taken out before the Surfer cleans up eventually.  Graviton would squish BRB, Legion would overwhelm Ronan, and Madelyne would be an equal for Quasar, with Legion and Graviton coming in to help her with the win.  Either Absorbing Man or Maelstrom would do well against Gladiator, especially if Absorbing Man absorbed the qualities of one of his team's energies, and if Maelstrom charged up before the fight.  Maelstrom has massive power potential.  With prep, he's stopped the earth's rotation and created a black hole that threatened the galaxy. In terms of soloing, if it somehow ended up with a highly charged Maelstrom, energy-powered Creel, Legion, Madelyne, and Graviton against the Surfer, I have a hard time seeing him winning.  Madelyne and Legion together would present a strong psychic defense for their side against the Surfer's astral plane abilities, and they could all present a powerful set of attacks that he couldn't stand up to.  I mean, people often argue SS vs. Thor.  Certainly all these guys put together are more powerful than Thor. And while we're discussing soloing, Graviton froze all of Earth's heroes simultaneously.  He could do a lot here. The Surfer's transmuting powers seem to be the wild card to me.  I know he has some reality warping powers, but has anyone ever seen him actually use them in a fight?  I don't remember ever seeing such a thing.  If so, please post a scan.  I wouldn't buy the argument that it's just a matter of morals for him--that he doesn't normally do it because he wouldn't normally want to kill; he's fought in a number of galactic wars, fought to save earth, or to save Shalla Bal, or to do Galactus's will, where he thinks its a matter of galactic importance, and has been willing to kill if necessary, but I don't think his reality warping has ever really been used as a weapon.  Again, let me know if I'm wrong, I'd be interested to see how he did it.

@Owie said:

 @difficlus said:   
@Illuminatus said: 

@difficlus said:

@katanalauncher said:

Earth, full powered Legion might be a little too much for these guys. 

Can't SS just turn him to mercury and be done with it? Same for graviton and Maelstrom.  Mind rape absorbing man 

Yes, quite easily. This is the Annihilators with no morals and prep.   I don't see why he wouldn't just overload Absorbing Man..

There are many ways for SS to kill creel. dump him in a blackhole, mind rape, remove his soul, astral plane attack. 

 You guys found some nice ways to get around the villains' powers using the Surfer's mental powers.  I like that. But I can't see this as a stomp.  I think many of the other Annihilators might get taken out before the Surfer cleans up eventually.  Graviton would squish BRB, Legion would overwhelm Ronan, and Madelyne would be an equal for Quasar, with Legion and Graviton coming in to help her with the win.  Either Absorbing Man or Maelstrom would do well against Gladiator, especially if Absorbing Man absorbed the qualities of one of his team's energies, and if Maelstrom charged up before the fight.  Maelstrom has massive power potential.  With prep, he's stopped the earth's rotation and created a black hole that threatened the galaxy. In terms of soloing, if it somehow ended up with a highly charged Maelstrom, energy-powered Creel, Legion, Madelyne, and Graviton against the Surfer, I have a hard time seeing him winning.  Madelyne and Legion together would present a strong psychic defense for their side against the Surfer's astral plane abilities, and they could all present a powerful set of attacks that he couldn't stand up to.  I mean, people often argue SS vs. Thor.  Certainly all these guys put together are more powerful than Thor. And while we're discussing soloing, Graviton froze all of Earth's heroes simultaneously.  He could do a lot here. The Surfer's transmuting powers seem to be the wild card to me.  I know he has some reality warping powers, but has anyone ever seen him actually use them in a fight?  I don't remember ever seeing such a thing.  If so, please post a scan.  I wouldn't buy the argument that it's just a matter of morals for him--that he doesn't normally do it because he wouldn't normally want to kill; he's fought in a number of galactic wars, fought to save earth, or to save Shalla Bal, or to do Galactus's will, where he thinks its a matter of galactic importance, and has been willing to kill if necessary, but I don't think his reality warping has ever really been used as a weapon.  Again, let me know if I'm wrong, I'd be interested to see how he did it.

Actually Silver Surfer is above thor in power level after annihilation. For Graviton, SS can also manipulate gravity and create blackholes or close them if he wishes. he's fought inside a singularity without even noticing his environment so graviton is not going to do much here. As for legion and Madelyn if SS gets the drop of them they're finished. Even if they attack first SS is not going down to anyone's psionic powers. He can drag them and stomp them on the astral plane since it is the source of his power and he cannot be harmed there.  
Silver Surfer's cosmic awareness gives him an instant advantage over anyone here. he knows their powers, how it works and their weaknesses. For the mutants he can simply remove their mutant x-gene and depower them or use other methods. For graviton he could shut down his powers (yes silver surfer can do that) and i doubt he can be affected by his powers seen as he also has gravitation manipulation as well as being able to take the crushing force of a black hole like it was nothing.  
For transmutation he's done it on a planet wide scale and on one occasion transmutes impossible man (who has control over his body) into a chicken and back because he was annoying him.  
   On another ocassion he turned carnage into a metal and turned spider man and daredevil into...was it glass? btw its not reality warping its just matter control. Anyway the reason he doesn't use them if most people don't know how to write him correctly. I mean if he got to use half his powers in a real battle very few people could beat him.  Your scenario is based on most of the annihilators being passive. Morals off its feasible for them to create a blackhole to kill most of the opponents if they wanted. Besides they're prepped up for this battle. They won't allow of the opponents to get a upper hand. either charging from maelstrom (and really quasar could just absorb any energy he tries to get) or giving absorbing man the opportunity to absorb any of them (i'd bet ronan would put him down quite easily). Gladiator can handle legion as long as he doesn't job. They know how to work properly as a team which the opponents don't have the advantage of.  SS vs those 4 or 5. Easy cake. Depower the mutants and create blackholes in their head. Turn off graviton's power or mind rape him or whatever. For maelstrom absorb any energy he has charged up with and for creel just transmute him to whatever and expand his electrons until he phases out of reality. He has the speed to finish the fight in less than 5 seconds. 

@difficlus said:

Silver Surfer SHOULD be above Thor imho. But how they have been depicting the battle between them in Mighty Thor...ufff...S.S is getting smacked around bad. Very bad writing.

@Kallarkz said:

@difficlus said:

Silver Surfer SHOULD be above Thor imho. But how they have been depicting the battle between them in Mighty Thor...ufff...S.S is getting smacked around bad. Very bad writing.

Well not only that. SS wasn't even fighting back. He was just shouting at thor and wanting to talk to him. And that BFR hurting him? psht.  Then again he managed to one shot him in cancerverse and he didn't do so bad in their first encounter. If anything his beat down on BRB in godhunter should be an indication of his new power level. 

@difficlus said:

@Kallarkz said:

@difficlus said:

Silver Surfer SHOULD be above Thor imho. But how they have been depicting the battle between them in Mighty Thor...ufff...S.S is getting smacked around bad. Very bad writing.

Well not only that. SS wasn't even fighting back. He was just shouting at thor and wanting to talk to him. And that BFR hurting him? psht.  Then again he managed to one shot him in cancerverse and he didn't do so bad in their first encounter. If anything his beat down on BRB in godhunter should be an indication of his new power level. 

Agreed. I know S.S prefers peace to fighting but when he has to cut loose he does. I really hope they do a better job at showing his fighting skills and when he does break out he needs to be throwing Thor around silly.

Actually Silver Surfer is above thor in power level after annihilation. For Graviton, SS can also manipulate gravity and create blackholes or close them if he wishes. he's fought inside a singularity without even noticing his environment so graviton is not going to do much here. As for legion and Madelyn if SS gets the drop of them they're finished. Even if they attack first SS is not going down to anyone's psionic powers. He can drag them and stomp them on the astral plane since it is the source of his power and he cannot be harmed there.  
Silver Surfer's cosmic awareness gives him an instant advantage over anyone here. he knows their powers, how it works and their weaknesses. For the mutants he can simply remove their mutant x-gene and depower them or use other methods. For graviton he could shut down his powers (yes silver surfer can do that) and i doubt he can be affected by his powers seen as he also has gravitation manipulation as well as being able to take the crushing force of a black hole like it was nothing.  
For transmutation he's done it on a planet wide scale and on one occasion transmutes impossible man (who has control over his body) into a chicken and back because he was annoying him.  
   On another ocassion he turned carnage into a metal and turned spider man and daredevil into...was it glass? btw its not reality warping its just matter control. Anyway the reason he doesn't use them if most people don't know how to write him correctly. I mean if he got to use half his powers in a real battle very few people could beat him.  Your scenario is based on most of the annihilators being passive. Morals off its feasible for them to create a blackhole to kill most of the opponents if they wanted. Besides they're prepped up for this battle. They won't allow of the opponents to get a upper hand. either charging from maelstrom (and really quasar could just absorb any energy he tries to get) or giving absorbing man the opportunity to absorb any of them (i'd bet ronan would put him down quite easily). Gladiator can handle legion as long as he doesn't job. They know how to work properly as a team which the opponents don't have the advantage of.  SS vs those 4 or 5. Easy cake. Depower the mutants and create blackholes in their head. Turn off graviton's power or mind rape him or whatever. For maelstrom absorb any energy he has charged up with and for creel just transmute him to whatever and expand his electrons until he phases out of reality. He has the speed to finish the fight in less than 5 seconds. 

@Kallarkz said: 

@difficlus said: 

@Kallarkz said: 

@difficlus said: 

Silver Surfer SHOULD be above Thor imho. But how they have been depicting the battle between them in Mighty Thor...ufff...S.S is getting smacked around bad. Very bad writing.

Well not only that. SS wasn't even fighting back. He was just shouting at thor and wanting to talk to him. And that BFR hurting him? psht.  Then again he managed to one shot him in cancerverse and he didn't do so bad in their first encounter. If anything his beat down on BRB in godhunter should be an indication of his new power level. 

Agreed. I know S.S prefers peace to fighting but when he has to cut loose he does. I really hope they do a better job at showing his fighting skills and when he does break out he needs to be throwing Thor around silly.

Well, part of the situation with Silver Surfer simply wishing to talk things out with Thor is not out of character in the slightest. Norrin has known Thor now for countless years, and knows that they share many similar ideals and morals.  
 
Now, Thor slapping Silver Surfer around so easily IS poor writing. I'm surprised Silver Surfer didn't just freeze Thor in place while he told him what he had to say.

Thanks for the detailed reply.  

I remember that issue with Impossible Man--funny.   

You're right that my scenario is a bit passive on the Annihilators side.  Partly I just wanted to illustrate some of the strategies the villains might take.  I don't think they're quite as helpless as has been represented on this thread; if you took the Surfer out of the equation, at least, I think they'd do well, even if they didn't necessarily win, and would take down at least a couple-few of the Annihilators.  And I'm not sure he'd be so dominant psychically.  But that's debatable, and leads into the other conversation here:
  

@Illuminatus said: 

@Kallarkz said: 

@difficlus said: 

@Kallarkz said: 

@difficlus said: 

Silver Surfer SHOULD be above Thor imho. But how they have been depicting the battle between them in Mighty Thor...ufff...S.S is getting smacked around bad. Very bad writing.

Well not only that. SS wasn't even fighting back. He was just shouting at thor and wanting to talk to him. And that BFR hurting him? psht.  Then again he managed to one shot him in cancerverse and he didn't do so bad in their first encounter. If anything his beat down on BRB in godhunter should be an indication of his new power level. 

Agreed. I know S.S prefers peace to fighting but when he has to cut loose he does. I really hope they do a better job at showing his fighting skills and when he does break out he needs to be throwing Thor around silly.

Well, part of the situation with Silver Surfer simply wishing to talk things out with Thor is not out of character in the slightest. Norrin has known Thor now for countless years, and knows that they share many similar ideals and morals.  
 
Now, Thor slapping Silver Surfer around so easily IS poor writing. I'm surprised Silver Surfer didn't just freeze Thor in place while he told him what he had to say.

 

I think some of the difference in opinion here is my take on what "current Surfer" means to me.  I agree, the Surfer should be more powerful than Thor, post-Annihilation.  Heck, pre-Annihilation too.  I'm a big Surfer fan.  But, after that Annihilation power increase, we've mostly seen a Surfer that I think has actually had less-powerful-than-normal feats.   He's been in 3 major arcs recently: his own limited series, the Annihilators mini, and the Mighty Thor arc.  He's been getting slapped around in Mighty Thor, in his own mini his cosmic awareness and speed weren't enough for him to escape from the High Evolutionary's power-sucking machine tentacles, and in Annihilators, he got smacked around a bit by a freaking Space Knight, of all people, and a Wraith Queen somehow put her tentacle into his brain.  All of these are absurd, and generally I'd write them off as PIS/WIS.  Basically, like you say, if everyone wrote him as powerful as he really is, the stories would be boring because he'd beat everyone in a second.  If he just turned all his enemies into apples, it would be boring.  That's why I was interested in finding out whether he every used it on anyone, in any circumstance.
 
But, there's another interpretation  to all these stories other than PIS, which is that this is not just bad writing, but that the Surfer is honestly just not as powerful as we all think he is.  In other words, if someone is written to be way less powerful than we think he's supposed to be for long enough, we may have to accept that he actually is not as powerful as we think he is anymore.  (Even is that doesn't make sense.)  I don't really want this to be the reality of the situation, but I can only read so many more stories of the Surfer being pushed around by people exponentially below his weight class before I have to admit he's not the heavyweight he's supposed to be.  So, I guess when I say "current Surfer" in the description, what I kind of mean is, current-Surfer-who-has-been-jobbing-like-a-maniac-for-the-past-year,-only-surpassed-by-his-boss-Galactus.  And this super-jobbing Surfer is not going to do as well against this team; even if he did win in the end, it wouldn't be such a stomp.

sufer probs wud win on himself not even a contest

Villains stomp

This is not really fair specially with someone like Goblin Queen involved.