Android 19 and 20 vs Frieza

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buttersdaman000

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Androids 19 and 20

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Frieza

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Rules:

  1. Fight takes place on Namek
  2. Frieza starts off in his final form
  3. No prep
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makhai

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Androids, effortlessly.

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Amendment50

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Either probably solos

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xXxcarzellxXx

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gero loses 19 wins

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buttersdaman000

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@makhai said:

Androids, effortlessly.

Either probably solos

Weakened Goku was able to give 19 a good fight and SSJ1 Vegeta curbed him even after he absorbed extra energy. That's a far cry from Frieza fighting evenly with an enraged Goku.

gero loses 19 wins

Hmm? Why?

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makhai

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@buttersdaman000: Because Trunks effortlessly wiped Cyborg Frieza (who was more powerful than Frieza in final form) and his even more powerful father and Trunks likely didn't have the power to defeat 19 and 20 at that point in time.

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buttersdaman000

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#7  Edited By buttersdaman000

@makhai: Trunks never fought androids 19 and 20 in his timeline and by the time he got fight them in the main timeline, 19 was dead and 20 was on the run. Also, I don't think there's any evidence to support cyborg Freiza was stronger than before.

Oh, and Vegeta stomped 19

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Etheral_Dreams

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#8  Edited By Etheral_Dreams

Androids. Villains from X Arc are always weaker than villains from Y Arc. DBZ is pretty simple.

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makhai

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#9  Edited By makhai

@makhai: Trunks never fought androids 19 and 20 in his timeline and by the time he got fight them in the main timeline, 19 was dead and 20 was on the run. Also, I don't think there's any evidence to support cyborg Freiza was stronger than before.

.... I am aware of that. I never said that Trunks did fight 19 and 20. I was using Trunks as the benchmark.

Yes, Frieza was more powerful as Cyborg Frieza.

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Mee09

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@buttersdaman000: Here too? Welp... In the manga Goku and Frieza didn't fight evenly. Goku pretty much stomped as soon as he went SSJ.

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buttersdaman000

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@mee09 said:

@buttersdaman000: Here too? Welp... In the manga Goku and Frieza didn't fight evenly. Goku pretty much stomped as soon as he went SSJ.

That's not true. Once Frieza started using 100% power they fought pretty evenly until Goku quit after he noticed Freizas ki dropping. It's chapters 321-325 IIRC.

@makhai said:
@buttersdaman000 said:

@makhai: Trunks never fought androids 19 and 20 in his timeline and by the time he got fight them in the main timeline, 19 was dead and 20 was on the run. Also, I don't think there's any evidence to support cyborg Freiza was stronger than before.

.... I am aware of that. I never said that Trunks did fight 19 and 20. I was using Trunks as the benchmark.

Yes, Frieza was more powerful as Cyborg Frieza.

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Ah, fair enough.

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MetalJimmor

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Goku was substantially stronger when he fought 19 and 20 than when he battled Frieza. A more powerful Frieza and his even stronger father were both effortlessly beaten by Trunks, who in turn couldn't even damage Goku's finger at the time.

Goku was suffering from a heart disease when he fought 19 but aside from fatigue there isn't any indication Goku's power level was lower. The fact Vegeta as a Super Saiyan knew he couldn't beat 19 and 20 together also supports the idea that Goku wasn't combatively weaker as Vegeta was about on par with Goku at the time.

Even assuming that Goku and Vegeta were weaker than Goku was against Frieza on Namek the androids still have the ability to absorb power level and ki attacks to become stronger. Unless Frieza is powerful enough to quickly defeat both they'd eventually become powerful enough to overcome him. Especially given how fast Frieza exhausts himself when using 100%.

This is, of course, assuming the OP meant Frieza Saga Frieza. He didn't specify. Which would make this current Frieza who turns golden and one shots both.

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buttersdaman000

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Goku was substantially stronger when he fought 19 and 20 than when he battled Frieza. A more powerful Frieza and his even stronger father were both effortlessly beaten by Trunks, who in turn couldn't even damage Goku's finger at the time.

Goku was suffering from a heart disease when he fought 19 but aside from fatigue there isn't any indication Goku's power level was lower. The fact Vegeta as a Super Saiyan knew he couldn't beat 19 and 20 together also supports the idea that Goku wasn't combatively weaker as Vegeta was about on par with Goku at the time.

Even assuming that Goku and Vegeta were weaker than Goku was against Frieza on Namek the androids still have the ability to absorb power level and ki attacks to become stronger. Unless Frieza is powerful enough to quickly defeat both they'd eventually become powerful enough to overcome him. Especially given how fast Frieza exhausts himself when using 100%.

This is, of course, assuming the OP meant Frieza Saga Frieza. He didn't specify. Which would make this current Frieza who turns golden and one shots both.

Yeah, I meant Namek Saga Frieza. I assumed the pic would suffice lol

His PL may not have been lower, but he was losing power at a extremely quickened rate.

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MetalJimmor

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@buttersdaman000:

He was, but that has a lot to do with the android's power absorbers too. And if 19 was weaker than Frieza then Goku should've been able to one shot him going by how quickly the much weaker Trunks took out a more powerful Frieza.

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buttersdaman000

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@buttersdaman000:

He was, but that has a lot to do with the android's power absorbers too. And if 19 was weaker than Frieza then Goku should've been able to one shot him going by how quickly the much weaker Trunks took out a more powerful Frieza.

The Heart Virus started working almost as soon as he transformed though.

Probably, but how do you know Trunks was much weaker?

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terry2012

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MrHamWallet

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Either one of them could probably solo, together they stomp Frieza

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cpt_nice

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Weakened Goku was able to give 19 a good fight and SSJ1 Vegeta curbed him even after he absorbed extra energy. That's a far cry from Frieza fighting evenly with an enraged Goku.

Goku was a lot stronger vs the Androids. He was post-zenkai and training for the Androids.

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cpt_nice

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Either would be a good match for him, together they stomp.

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makhai

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@buttersdaman000: Most of the time, you are correcting my DBZ knowledge! So this is like... winning the lottery! :D

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buttersdaman000

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@makhai said:

@buttersdaman000: Most of the time, you are correcting my DBZ knowledge! So this is like... winning the lottery! :D

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lettsplay10

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#22  Edited By lettsplay10

team

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JuzaCloud

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Piccolo defeated android 20 pretty easily. Even after android 20 absorbed vegeta ki blast. So if android 20 is stronger than frieza like people are saying, then so is piccolo at this point. Im not sure I believe that.

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makhai

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Piccolo defeated android 20 pretty easily. Even after android 20 absorbed vegeta ki blast. So if android 20 is stronger than frieza like people are saying, then so is piccolo at this point. Im not sure I believe that.

Piccolo spent three years training non-stop with Goku and Gohan. Just being able to train with Goku after three years, while still allowing Goku to grow would put him MILES above Frieza.

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AlexTheBoss

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#25  Edited By AlexTheBoss

The team would most likely win this. I don't think they win 1v1 though unless they absorb Frieza's energy, but together they are too much.

Frieza needs to be at 100% full power to even have a chance against both at once. He will loose his energy too quick even if they don't absorb anything.

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IRHP87

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@makhai said:

Androids, effortlessly.

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AlexTheBoss

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@irhp87: do you think they could solo without energy absorption?

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AlexTheBoss

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@irhp87: do you think they could solo without energy absorption?

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IRHP87

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@irhp87: do you think they could solo without energy absorption?

Yeah, I do. Android 19 fought okay against Goku who only started losing once the effects of the heart virus kicked in. Until then it was only affecting his stamina, causing him to grow tired quickly, but didn't seem to make him any weaker. Regarless, even after fighting with Goku 19 still stood against Vegeta without being one-shot blitzed like Cyborg Frieza was against Trunks, he at least put up a struggle, and Vegeta seems to be a bit above Trunks.

Even if we assume that Android 19 was not above nor even equal to Cyborg Frieza but only at Frieza's level (I can't see an argument for him being weaker than non-Cyborg Frieza) then add in 20 and we still have a stomp, IMO. Frieza just can't win no matter how we approach this, IMO.

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AlexTheBoss

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@irhp87:Goku was weak from the very start of the fight, even when he was dominating 19.

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I wouldn't consider this a blitz.  Trunks set Frieza up and attacked him while he wasn't looking.
I wouldn't consider this a blitz. Trunks set Frieza up and attacked him while he wasn't looking.
Gohan said Frieza could get
Gohan said Frieza could get "much, much stronger". Nobody ever gave an indication Frieza powered up.
Krillin implies Frieza was the strongest enemy they have faced before 17, 18, 16, and Cell show up.  Not sure how much stock you should put into this though.
Krillin implies Frieza was the strongest enemy they have faced before 17, 18, 16, and Cell show up. Not sure how much stock you should put into this though.

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IRHP87

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@alextheboss: When Piccolo said that Goku was already in the middle of fighting with 19. The effects of the virus were growing stronger. Piccolo actually stated that Goku was fighting at close to full powerearlier in the fight, and wondered why Goku was stretching the fight out now. This means Goku was fighting 19 at nearly full power until the heart virus started to affect him more, which is why Piccolo thought he was stretching the fight when he was really just getting weaker. I will post the picture at the end, but basically this means 19 is above Cyborg Frieza who could never take the beating 19 got right off the bat in his fight against Goku.

So in summation, no Goku was not"weak from the very start of the fight," that is incorrect. He was actually close to full power in fact.

Krillin seemed to be lumping all the androids and Cell together when he said "a bunch of enemies stronger than Frieza" which actually supports the Androids being above Frieza, as I believe. As for Gohan saying that Frieza can get stronger, I believe that was before he tried to kill Trunks, when he probably raised his power.

Also, Trunks DEFINITELY blitzed Frieza IMO. Before the page you posted there is another where he explicitly calls out to Frieza from a distance BEFORE attacking, and then we see Frieza look at him BEFORE Trunks fires his blast, and then Frieza dodges and Trunks outspeeds him and slices him in half up close, which is pretty much the definition of a blitz in my book, but maybe I am misusing the term...I will also post that picture.

http://mangafever.us/scans/i4/img/dragon-ball/341/dragon-ball-1950433.jpg

http://mangafever.us/scans/i8/img/dragon-ball/331/dragon-ball-69943.jpg

http://mangafever.us/scans/i8/img/dragon-ball/331/dragon-ball-69944.jpg

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AlexTheBoss

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#32  Edited By AlexTheBoss

@irhp87: I went through the whole manga fight. The parts i gave you were like 3 pages into the fight. It was the beginning.

That's a mistranslation.

Piccolo said Goku was fighting sloppy. Also Goku at full power wouldn't kill Frieza with punches either so it doesn't really matter.
Piccolo said Goku was fighting sloppy. Also Goku at full power wouldn't kill Frieza with punches either so it doesn't really matter.

Also, Trunks DEFINITELY blitzed Frieza IMO. Before the page you posted there is another where he explicitly calls out to Frieza from a distance BEFORE attacking, and then we see Frieza look at him BEFORE Trunks fires his blast, and then Frieza dodges and Trunks outspeeds him and slices him in half up close, which is pretty much the definition of a blitz in my book, but maybe I am misusing the term...I will also post that picture.

Blitz means attacking an opponent before they can react. Trunks called out Frieza to set him up. Frieza easily dodged his ki blast and was looking down at the explosion when Trunks came in for the kill. When Frieza noticed it was already too late.

If Trunks was a lot stronger than Frieza he wouldn't of said anything and would of just killed him with a ki blast.

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ComicVinero

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You don´t know mch about DBZ right? they both win effortlesly. You can ask me if you have any questions about dbz

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IRHP87

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@irhp87: I went through the whole manga fight. The parts i gave you were like 3 pages into the fight. It was the beginning.

That's a mistranslation.

Piccolo said Goku was fighting sloppy. Also Goku at full power wouldn't kill Frieza with punches either so it doesn't really matter.
Piccolo said Goku was fighting sloppy. Also Goku at full power wouldn't kill Frieza with punches either so it doesn't really matter.

Also, Trunks DEFINITELY blitzed Frieza IMO. Before the page you posted there is another where he explicitly calls out to Frieza from a distance BEFORE attacking, and then we see Frieza look at him BEFORE Trunks fires his blast, and then Frieza dodges and Trunks outspeeds him and slices him in half up close, which is pretty much the definition of a blitz in my book, but maybe I am misusing the term...I will also post that picture.

Blitz means attacking an opponent before they can react. Trunks called out Frieza to set him up. Frieza easily dodged his ki blast and was looking down at the explosion when Trunks came in for the kill. When Frieza noticed it was already too late.

If Trunks was a lot stronger than Frieza he wouldn't of said anything and would of just killed him with a ki blast.

Frieza couldn't react to Trunk's sword slash, though, so if a blitz is only "attacking an opponent before they can react" then it was a blitz. If we tack on "attacking an opponent before they can react andthey can't notice the attack" then yeah it wasn't a blitz because Frieza did notice the attack coming, despite being unable to react to it.

Also, you mentioned setting Frieza up. I don't understand how that matters. He was simply far faster and more powerful than Frieza. Frieza saw Trunks BEFORE. He. Attacked. That's big. He called out to him. THEN he fired a blast. Frieza saw that, too. He dodged one attack and then was struck down with overwhelming speed and power by a melee attack after that, before he could even react to it. Call it what you want but it's a huge show of speed and strength. Nobody who ISN'T "a lot stronger" than someone else in DBZ has done this. We don't see Yamcha doing this to Cell, do we? A significant difference in power and speed is necessary.

And just so I understand, why would Trunks specifically kill Frieza with a ki blast if he was "a lot stronger," exactly?

How do you know Goku fighting at full power wouldn't kill Frieza with punches? Why not? He was stronger than Trunks at that point who killed Cyborg Frieza with one melee attack. Unless you're like King Cold and believe the sword is why Frieza was killed, lol.

Anyway, fighting sloppy doesn't mean your power is low, just means he wasn't fighting smart, probably because he felt like shit. Piccolo straight out said Goku was fighting close to full power at first, that's all there is to it, and 19 took his onslaught without serious injury. There's no way Frieza could take close to full power Goku's beatdown (which would basically be around Trunk's strength).

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never give up

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Androids can also absorb energy.

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AlexTheBoss

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@irhp87: Frieza saw the attack at the last second. It was too late. Frieza "blitzed" ssj Goku right after he powered up. If he used a sword it would of went right through Goku's body. Weapons do help, Trunks didn't carry it around for no reason. The reason it didn't work with King Cold is because he was too weak. If two warriors were the same strength and one had a sword, he would have the advantage.

We don't see Yamcha doing this to Cell, do we?

No we see Tien do it to Cell, lol. Also we see Piccolo do it to 50% Frieza. And base Vegeta to 19.

Frieza was caught off guard, this was made very clear, and the last time his power was mentioned he was said to be suppressed.

And just so I understand, why would Trunks specifically kill Frieza with a ki blast if he was "a lot stronger," exactly?

If he was really that much stronger he would of just walked up to him and killed him like he did to King Cold. Did Vegeta use a set up like that to kill Qui, Dadoria, or Pui Pui? No he just instantly killed them with a ki blast.

He was stronger than Trunks at that point who killed Cyborg Frieza with one melee attack.

sword strike>>>a punch or kick.

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AlexTheBoss

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ComicVinero

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@alextheboss: they can win, not effortlesly, they are more or less on the same level

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never give up

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AlexTheBoss

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@never_give_up: @comicvinero: I have 100% Frieza above them in power but there absorption powers and durability/pain resistance may give them a chance to win. But ya in a 2v1 Frieza doesn't have much of a chance. All he can hope for is quickly destroying one with a death saucer, or he can bust the planet since that isn't limited.

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APEX_pretador

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namek freeza will literally tear their heads off.

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never give up

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Kute

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idk. frieza could fight with them for a bit. but he wears too easy. and if hes not prepped on the energy absorb that'd be it

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Saiyan77

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Frieza could beat either 19 or 20 himself but those Androids together beat him

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APEX_pretador

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  • Namek freeza is smart enough to realize it soon that the androids can absorb energy because he will start off with a death beam, and luckily, death beam is penetrating attack and has less "energy" compared to bigger attacks
  • He is an even match for a super saiyan after he had recieved incredible amount of damage. (I know that android arc Super Saiyans are stronger, but healthy freeza is also stronger than injured freeza)
  • 19 and 20 have no feats to suggest that they are even close to freeza. Piccolo, who wasn't even on the same level as super saiyuans, completely fodderized dr gero (#20) AFTER he had absorbed vegeta's huge blast and piccolo's some power
  • Freeza >> Piccolo >> 20 (post) > 20 (pre) > 19 (post vegeta)
  • Freeza has TK and death saucers, just in case.
  • 19 could absorb vegeta because he allowed him to.

@never_give_up: @comicvinero: I have 100% Frieza above them in power but there absorption powers and durability/pain resistance may give them a chance to win. But ya in a 2v1 Frieza doesn't have much of a chance. All he can hope for is quickly destroying one with a death saucer, or he can bust the planet since that isn't limited.

Freeza's durability >>>> Their durability combined.

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AlexTheBoss

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@apex_pretador: Your right durability was the wrong word. 19 and 20 don't feel pain or get tired, that's what could give them the advantage. Frieza gets tired quick at full power while they would drain his energy. Also the OP doesn't say Frieza starts off at 100%.

If Frieza has full knowledge and starts at 100% he would kill them. but if he starts suppressed without knowledge he would loose.

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Kute

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either android stomps. Goku got stronger. trunks couldn't even hurt his finger. and trunks stomped mecha frieza. goku was stronger than 19 initially, but it wasn't a stomp

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DeathHero61

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I hate the androids so much, out of all the characters, they have the worse scaling and ABC logic out of all the characters, unlike other villians, they have the least amount of feats......

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agent41

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I hate the androids so much, out of all the characters, they have the worse scaling and ABC logic out of all the characters, unlike other villians, they have the least amount of feats......

ABC logic is the soul of db.