Android 17 and 18 VS Majin Buu and Cell (Read)

VS

Rules

• With this battle we will be using PURE feats only.
• Which means no scaling and outside statements.
• Only feats and statements the character has directly applied on panel.

Win by KO or Death

Full power/Peak

Anime/Manga versions

Location: Cell Arena

Thoughts?

Android 17 solos if we go by his Universal Survival arc feats.

Kid Buu busted Earth.... outside of any scaling what-so-ever, this is the best here.

17 and 18 were at city lvl, and arguably only by an over-time standard.

Perfect Cell can also manage 17 and 18s city lvl attacks, considering how Cell did seem to somewhat manage 2 different claimed planet lvl attacks

- Vegeta's Final Flash & Goku's Instant Transmission Kamehameha

If we go into DBS than the androids take it.

They stand inside Ribriannes stated Blackhole is impressive. 17 also was able to destroy that ToP arena, which should be hella tough.

With pure feats, 17 fought SSB Goku and more

He solos

@orangecrush81: wouldn't that be scaling though?

@alextheboss:

I considering fighting Universal level characters and visibly doing well, a feat.

If we substitute 17 in place of either Buu or Cell, it wouldn't end well.

Buu only has the best DC feats.

A17 Stomps if we are using feats for real. Especially if it's at there peak. Especially since he was able to fight Toppo pretty fairly before he got his GoD mode, which also proves that Goku in SSB was fighting decently serious.

@orangecrush81: Well Buu fought Moro in Dragon Ball Super, and did way better than either 17 or 18 did against him. I know where you are coming from, but you are basically using scaling. SSG Goku and Beerus have the universal feats, not 17. He should be on or above SSG Goku's level, but that is from scaling, not visual feats.

Wait does this mean 18 is officially near or on her brother level?

@kasya_carey: Idk DBS scaling is wack. In the TOP she fought along side Krillin and 17, which would indicate she is relative to both of them... In the manga Roshi was also dodging Jiren, lmao.

DBS 17 solos

@alextheboss:

Goku and Beerus destroying a Universe is a Universal DC Feat.

17 fighting on par / getting the better of SSB Goku in some exchanges is still a Universal feat because you need Universal AP and durability in order to do so.

And you're right about Buu but I was assuming she was reffering to Kid Buu like in the picture. Lol

@orangecrush81: Didn't the writer of that episode say Goku was heavily suppressed

@kasya_carey:

No, he wasn't suppressed at all.

17 forced him into his SSB state and was still landing shots after.

He also has some showings against Toppo and Jiren during TOP

I'll post the video in a sec

@kasya_carey:

Buu actually planet busted and Cell has the solar system statement so they stomp with these conditions.

Though imagine Dragon Ball without scaling lmao.

Unless 18 has any feats of getting the better of or fighting on par with Universal level characters, it doesn't mean anything.

A lot of the characters fighting in TOP were no where near that level.

That's because Buu is a hard counter to Moro, Buu did better than Goku and Vegeta too. It's just because Buu had absorbed the Grand Supreme Kai. 17 also fought evenly against Toppo, which is a SSB level fighter.

@lilyeezywest:

Buu from Super is actually multiple times stronger then he was in DBZ.

He's also at a Universal level based on his feats. lol

@orangecrush81: In the manga? Idk about that, if we go by that we have to say the Grand Supreme Kai is that level because he beat Moro too. Then Kid Buu is universal and then the whole scaling just gets messed up. Buu wins simply because he counters Moro.

Thread says no statements.

So Cell's solar system statement can't be used.

17's performance in Super are actual feats.

Buu fighting Moro > Buu busting earth

• Only feats and statements the character has directly applied on panel.

Also, Buu fighting Moro counts as scaling.

Didn't she fight a final form Ribrianne who, fought SSB Goku and 17

Also didn't she easily pick up and throw Cocotte's shield when god level characters like 17 and Goku couldn't even push her shield with a blast?

Like Alex said the scaling is all over the place

Krillin fought SSB Goku

18 kicked his SSB Goku blast into the atmosphere

Didn't Buu fight present day Moro?

I think that's what he was referring to.

@orangecrush81: Yeah I know, but the Grand Supreme Kai also beat Moro, and he was beaten by Kid Buu, which he absorbed to become Majin Buu. So if we use that especially since Moro said he wasn't at full power unlock before Grand Supreme Kai is universal, and Kid Buu becomes universal, which isn't the case because Moro was just countered by Majin Buu/Grand Supreme Kai which is why he couldn't beat them.

@kasya_carey:

It was a lot more clear with 17 because Goku directly stated it and you see him tagging Goku multiple times.

Krillin & 18 never actually fought on par with SSB Goku

And it can be implied he that was heavily suppressed in that instance.

No idea about what you just said with Cocotte.

I don't even remember who that is.

I'll have to look it up

@lilyeezywest:

Then that would just mean Moro wasn't Universal in the past

@orangecrush81:

https://twitter.com/Herms98/status/879509057622507520?s=20

The writer confirmed 17 was never on SSB Goku level. Goku only used it to motivate Krillin, 17 and etc.

@kasya_carey:

I just looked it up.

It could just mean her barrier has Universal durability

doesn't necessarily mean she is Universal level herself.

18 kind of just threw her out of the ring like a jobber. lol

You could be right though.

Who knows

That would make sense if he didn't say

and then go on to beat Vegeta and Goku. Meaning the version that fought the Grand Supreme Kai is even stronger.

That link doesn't even say 17 isn't on SSB level.

It just says Goku was gauging his strength. And we all know how that went.

We know he is at least above SSG and relative to Blue based on his performance

@lilyeezywest:

Was it ever explained how Moro was beaten?

Buu was also training before TOP and got a power boost.

He had an exhibition match with Goku too.

Uhm, it was shown out right iirc. The Grand Supreme Kai who was absorbed by Buu just countered him. That's why the Galactic Patrol wanted Majin Buu because The Grand Supreme Kai counters Moro. Majin Buu exhibition match with Goku wasn't more impressive than A17's tho.

@lilyeezywest:

Yeah, you're right.

Majin Buu could still be consider Universal if you take in to account, Goku absorbing God Ki into his base though.

It didn't see like he was holding back as much on that one

DBS scaling really is terrible.

@orangecrush81: Yeah that is true.

It's only terrible with the manga. The anime at least has decent to good scaling.

Fighting someone isn't scaling though,

Buu need to be strong in stats enough to fight Moro.

even Saiyan saga characters can bust earth.

@orangecrush81:

I'm only in charge of No. 17, but Goku, who scouts around, was fighting not to defeat but to find an opponent. Isn't it because it turned blue to motivate the other party? I interpret it that way. We apologize for any misleading expressions.

Using twitter translation and the person who also translated. Above is what was said.

@kasya_carey:

You don't have to apologize for anything. lol

You're right.

Goku was scouting their power but wasn't expecting 17 to push him to Blue

It just sort of happened that way.

By pure feats 17 survived being inside a black hole.

@kasya_carey: One, it stated that his interpretation,

2) It doesn't have anything to do with A17 Since he fought somewhat evenly with Toppo, who is a SSB level fighter.

You have to separate the anime and manga as they both have their own seperate canon.

Anything else I could add is subjective so I won't say it. No scaling could mean anything.

@lilyeezywest: Wasn't that due to his infinite strength and stamia?

@kasya_carey: Uhm not really, that was when Toppo went GoD mode iirc.

Kid Buu has the best feats here without scaling to another character. IMO tangling with a SSB doesn't mean much in Super since even Krillin was capable of it

Even by feats alone and not taking Super's power levels into account, Android 17 got by far the best feats overall